Elementary School Shooting In Connecticut

[UncleThursday]

That's getting a bit silly, don't you think? When we talk about biases, we're not talking about peoples' normal affinities, we're talking about blatant disregard for human rights, e.g. That's not just a simple bias, to me that should eliminate you from being allowed on the Supreme Court...a position you hold for life.

If a person publicly admits he hates blondes, e.g., for whatever reason, he is showing himself to not be of the stature that we as a people desire for that high office.

Dog catcher? Sure...maybe even a city councilman. But certainly not someone who makes life and death decisions for the entire country.

By the logic of your post, no one should be refused a seat on SCOTUS. I can't believe that's what you really mean.

No, it's not. What I'm trying to say is, if the law is what is used to make the decisions, and not personal bias or beliefs, then the decisions made should be more or less agreeable (if said law is actually something worth using as a reference, that is).

Even with the Defense of Marriage Act (effectively banning gay marriage), a normally ultra conservative judge (which meant the GOP hoped he would rule in favor of DOMA) found it to be unconstitutional based solely on the law. And this is the same guy who thinks lawyers working pro-bono hurts society and that corporations don't need to be held liable under human rights conditions (both of which I think are ludicrous). The judge probably hates LGBTs, but found that the law made the banning of them getting married unconstitutional.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/1 ... ted-judge/

 

[UncleThursday]

this hasn't really happened in Australia though, gun homocides are down significantly in every state, as Red and I (I think the only aussies in the thread) have said several times lol. Criminals use their guns to shoot other criminals mainly. Bikies for example don't generally bother shooting civilians because it's just dumb, there's no profit in it and it brings heat down on them.

Ironically most gun deaths in the US are also criminal against criminal. Gangs shooting it out between each other, etc. But there are cases where innocent bystanders are shot and killed (like in robberies, for example). Biker gangs, the different mobs, the Blood and Crips, etc. while they have no qualms about killing people not involved, tend to really make the majority of their shots go towards other criminals encroaching on their turf. Another problem, though, is the fact that most of these criminals rarely know the right end of the gun from the wrong, and in their shoot outs end up hitting innocents in the crossfire, because they can barely hit the broadside of a planet when they're aiming at it.

There are also accidental shootings, as well as cases of a spouse cracking and shooting their significant other.

But, you bring up an interesting point. When it is criminal on criminal shootings, most people, and the law, would probably see it as not a huge deal, provided no innocents get caught in the cross fire. One or more less criminals on the streets. Far easier to let them kill each other over waste taxpayer money on the murder investigations when a gang banger is killed by another gang banger.

 

[Anonymous]

This thread needs to be relabeled gun control. I wanted a place to discuss the horror of what happend how that made me feel and how brave some of the teachers and even kids were. Instead its a bunch of hotheads arguing about guns. Makes me ill.

I agree. I'm a bit turned off by it too. This happens in all of the news story threads, including the Trayvon Martin thread. It starts out on topic, and then it becomes a 'gun control' debate, and some sort of contest to see who can post the most links to OTHER news stories/laws.....

Might as well have one big 'gun control' thread and have at it there. This thread should be about the victims and heroes of the Sandy Hook Elementary shooting...not a gun control pissing match.

 

[Neudiin]

Is this thread at the time for Ponies?

Amber will let me know =)

 

[Bocefish]

This thread needs to be relabeled gun control. I wanted a place to discuss the horror of what happend how that made me feel and how brave some of the teachers and even kids were. Instead its a bunch of hotheads arguing about guns. Makes me ill.

I agree. I'm a bit turned off by it too. This happens in all of the news story threads, including the Trayvon Martin thread. It starts out on topic, and then it becomes a 'gun control' debate, and some sort of contest to see who can post the most links to OTHER news stories/laws.....

Might as well have one big 'gun control' thread and have at it there. This thread should be about the victims and heroes of the Sandy Hook Elementary shooting...not a gun control pissing match.

A couple people asked for it not to turn into another gun control argument, but noooooo.... the wannabe gun grabbers had to seize the moment like they try to do after every shooting tragedy and the most boisterous ones don't even live in this country.

 

[Jupiter551]

A couple people asked for it not to turn into another gun control argument, but noooooo.... the wannabe gun grabbers had to seize the moment like they try to do after every shooting tragedy and the most boisterous ones don't even live in this country.

Oh and you had absolutely no part in igniting that debate huh...

Let me ask you this, if a known pedophile was found to have abused 20 children as a teacher and there were no laws to prevent known sex offenders from working with kids, would people demand we not call for such laws out of respect for the victims? Yeah that's what I thought. Gun control is just taboo is all.

 

[Bocefish]

A couple people asked for it not to turn into another gun control argument, but noooooo.... the wannabe gun grabbers had to seize the moment like they try to do after every shooting tragedy and the most boisterous ones don't even live in this country.

Oh and you had absolutely no part in igniting that debate huh...

Let me ask you this, if a known pedophile was found to have abused 20 children as a teacher and there were no laws to prevent known sex offenders from working with kids, would people demand we not call for such laws out of respect for the victims? Yeah that's what I thought. Gun control is just taboo is all.

Go back and read how it started and by whom. Gun control is not taboo, just not appropriate in certain threads. You should have started another thread as was requested, period.

 

[Bocefish]

Page one of this thread.

I don't really think this thread needs to be about where the country (or we as individuals) should stand on gun control. That deserves it's own thread, far away from this one about children.

 

[SoTxBob]

Let me ask you this, if a known pedophile was found to have abused 20 children as a teacher and there were no laws to prevent known sex offenders from working with kids, would people demand we not call for such laws out of respect for the victims?

That offender would simply be reassigned to another parish or transferred somewhere by the Cardinal. :shock: :mrgreen:

 

[Red7227]

This thread needs to be relabeled gun control. I wanted a place to discuss the horror of what happend how that made me feel and how brave some of the teachers and even kids were. Instead its a bunch of hotheads arguing about guns. Makes me ill.

I agree. I'm a bit turned off by it too. This happens in all of the news story threads, including the Trayvon Martin thread. It starts out on topic, and then it becomes a 'gun control' debate, and some sort of contest to see who can post the most links to OTHER news stories/laws.....

Might as well have one big 'gun control' thread and have at it there. This thread should be about the victims and heroes of the Sandy Hook Elementary shooting...not a gun control pissing match.

You could always just have one big thread for all of the mass shootings, because they never seem to end either.

 

[Jupiter551]

the presence of guns and questioning how and why this guy could get his hands on them is absolutely indivisible from discussing this incident. What else would you have us discuss, how the children died of a terrible accident? How they would have died even if he'd just had a screwdriver?

20 kids get murdered by a guy toting multiple guns, so clearly, this has nothing to do with guns.

 

[RedHerby]

... Gun control is not taboo, just not appropriate in certain threads. ...

This is the appropriate thread, there is a direct link between those 20 dead kids and gun ownership in the United States.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sp ... hip/table/

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

This thread needs to be relabeled gun control. I wanted a place to discuss the horror of what happend how that made me feel and how brave some of the teachers and even kids were. Instead its a bunch of hotheads arguing about guns. Makes me ill.

I agree. I'm a bit turned off by it too. This happens in all of the news story threads, including the Trayvon Martin thread. It starts out on topic, and then it becomes a 'gun control' debate, and some sort of contest to see who can post the most links to OTHER news stories/laws.....

Might as well have one big 'gun control' thread and have at it there. This thread should be about the victims and heroes of the Sandy Hook Elementary shooting...not a gun control pissing match.

I am not sure what more there is to discuss about the event (and yes I suppose that also applies to gun control since nothing has changed since the last incident). The victims were especially tragic because of their age. Several staffers acted heroically, and the first responders did also. The services were painful to watch and the President showed some rare and understandable emotion. Everybody around the world hearts breaks for the families and the community. What else is there to say?

 

[Anonymous]

I am not sure what more there is to discuss about the event (and yes I suppose that also applies to gun control since nothing has changed since the last incident). The victims were especially tragic because of their age. Several staffers acted heroically, and the first responders did also. The services were painful to watch and the President showed some rare and understandable emotion. Everybody around the world hearts breaks for the families and the community. What else is there to say?

Everyday that you turn on the news channels, this is still one of the top stories, and they've been announcing the names of victims and showing photos of their adorable little faces. There's plenty left to say. If you feel that there's nothing else to say, you don't have to post about it here. But it's a bit disrespectful to turn this into another 'gun control' pissing match. If some of you insist on bickering about gun control, start another thread for it and argue as much as you want.

 

[Jupiter551]

Well to save Amber poring over 11 pages of mostly gun debate, here is a thread about the victims and the tragedy that will hopefully be free of argument: http://www.ambercutie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11247

 

[Jupiter551]

But it's a bit disrespectful to turn this into another 'gun control' pissing match.

But why is it a pissing match Fox? People advocating gun control aren't trying to hold onto power or disrespect victims, all they want is to prevent tragedies like this from continually occuring. There have been 19 shooting massacres in the US in 5 years. That's one every 3 months. It would seem to me the true disrespect is to ignore a broken system and pretend this was all just some freak accident.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Everyday that you turn on the news channels, this is still one of the top stories, and they've been announcing the names of victims and showing photos of their adorable little faces. There's plenty left to say. If you feel that there's nothing else to say, you don't have to post about it here. But it's a bit disrespectful to turn this into another 'gun control' pissing match. If some of you insist on bickering about gun control, start another thread for it. Show the Sandy Hook victims some respect.....

Well the majority of OP posts are about gun control, and he has strong opinions on the subject. Gun control came up a lot on the very first page on the thread so it isn't like we are threadjacking. It seems hard separate the issues. By all means post pictures of the victims, stories of the heroes or whatever you think is relevant. I get that info from news sources but others may not.

However, I am choosing to respect the victims but discussing ways of reducing the future incidents. That maybe best accomplished by gun control, better mental health care, or even reducing the media attention to stories like this. It is a guy thing when we see problems we like to figure out ways of fixing them.

 

[Jupiter551]

That maybe best accomplished by gun control, better mental health care, or even reducing the media attention to stories like this. It is a guy thing when we see problems we like to figure out ways of fixing them.

All three imo. And yeah I apologise if I offend anyone but when I see something like this happens my first thoughts are sadness, then anger, then 'how can this be prevented from happening over and over as it has?'

 

[AmberCutie]

Well to save Amber poring over 11 pages of mostly gun debate, here is a thread about the victims and the tragedy that will hopefully be free of argument: http://www.ambercutie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11247

Unfortunately, my site or forum can not be a host to images of children in such a way that you started that thread. Please keep your discussion of it here.

I hate to remind you all, but this IS an adult related forum, so we probably want to eventually ease up on the talk of all the children, and move on.

In fact, moving on soon is preferred.

 

[Jupiter551]

Well to save Amber poring over 11 pages of mostly gun debate, here is a thread about the victims and the tragedy that will hopefully be free of argument: http://www.ambercutie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11247

Unfortunately, my site or forum can not be a host to images of children in such a way that you started that thread. Please keep your discussion of it here.

I hate to remind you all, but this IS an adult related forum, so we probably want to eventually ease up on the talk of all the children, and move on.

In fact, moving on soon is preferred.

ahh fair enough yeah I didn't think of it that way, sorry

 

[Anonymous]

Well the majority of OP posts are about gun control, and he has strong opinions on the subject. Gun control came up a lot on the very first page on the thread so it isn't like we are threadjacking.

Then he probably should've titled it 'Where do you stand on gun control?'

 

[Anonymous]

But why is it a pissing match Fox?

Don't ask me. Ask yourselves that when you're bickering with each other for having different views.

 

[Jupiter551]

Well, parents of victims have opinions too:

 

[Bocefish]

Kinda what I was suggesting earlier:

Video: http://www.kristv.com/videoplayer/?vide ... gories=304

WICHITA FALLS, Texas (KFDX) - A small Texas school district has already armed teachers as part of a plan to protect their students from outside attacks.

"Many people can learn how to effectively and safely guard others with firearms," Harrold Independent School District Superintendent David Thweatt says.

Certain teachers, though he won't say who or the number who do, carry guns daily at the K-12 school, which has just more than 100 students.

"Anonymity is key to what we do here at Harrold," Thweatt says.

His idea to let some teachers carry guns inside the classroom was put into effect in 2008.

Following the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut, he says he stands by his policy, and that quick action is what's needed in mass shooting type incidents.

Read more: http://bit.ly/V2qquQ

 

[Harvrath]

Simple thought experiment.

Suppose the 'traditional' top-down government run Gun Control is impossible. Its impractical. For some reason we simply cannot do it.

Then how do we tackle the problem of rampages, of gun crime?

Maybe we should be doing that before engaging in America's favorite past-time of trading Liberty for Security?

 

[Neudiin]

Do you blame a pencil, pen or keyboard for misspelled words? My father taught me very few things but one thing he taught me was: locks keep honest people honest. I believe the same thing applies to rules, regulations and laws.

Gun control in the US is not perfect. We are not perfect but I think it is pretty good, maybe needs some tweaks. But either you outlaw them all, which will never happen, or you figure out better background checks. I think they are fairly extensive now so not sure how much more so they can get. Millions of guns are owned by millions of people in the US, so if guns were the only issue, these sorts of things would happen every day. But they don't.

I posted a link earlier in this thread, did any of you that just wanna talk about guns actually read it? Cause if you had you would have read about a woman of a 13 y/o that is terrified of her child. He can't process emotions very well and is at times very violent. His mother is at her wits end because she has no where to take him to get help and very soon she is not going to be able to control him. Her only option? Hope he gets arrested because jail is about the only place he could get treatment. Put a kid that is very violent at any moment into a cage so he can learn to be a killer, great idea. Getting this child and the 1000's like him some help should be at the forefront of conversations about how to prevent these sorts of tragedies.

That and the way the media covers these things. Did ya watch the video I posted? Because it talks about how the media is making these fucking douche bags in to "anti-heroes". How someone, like that 13 y/o kid, who would probably just kill himself might think "Hey I can get my name in the news. I can be famous. Then I can die and everyone will talk about me" so he goes to a public place and kills.

But you keep talking about guns and how they are to blame. Cause that worked after Columbine right? VA Tech? That theater in CO? but this time it will be different. This time politics will work because it has in the past. Oh wait that's right...it doesn't.

as for me....bring on Fight Club.

 

[Red7227]

Do you blame a pencil, pen or keyboard for misspelled words? My father taught me very few things but one thing he taught me was: locks keep honest people honest. I believe the same thing applies to rules, regulations and laws.

Gun control in the US is not perfect. We are not perfect but I think it is pretty good, maybe needs some tweaks. But either you outlaw them all, which will never happen, or you figure out better background checks. I think they are fairly extensive now so not sure how much more so they can get. Millions of guns are owned by millions of people in the US, so if guns were the only issue, these sorts of things would happen every day. But they don't.

I posted a link earlier in this thread, did any of you that just wanna talk about guns actually read it? Cause if you had you would have read about a woman of a 13 y/o that is terrified of her child. He can't process emotions very well and is at times very violent. His mother is at her wits end because she has no where to take him to get help and very soon she is not going to be able to control him. Her only option? Hope he gets arrested because jail is about the only place he could get treatment. Put a kid that is very violent at any moment into a cage so he can learn to be a killer, great idea. Getting this child and the 1000's like him some help should be at the forefront of conversations about how to prevent these sorts of tragedies.

That and the way the media covers these things. Did ya watch the video I posted? Because it talks about how the media is making these fucking douche bags in to "anti-heroes". How someone, like that 13 y/o kid, who would probably just kill himself might think "Hey I can get my name in the news. I can be famous. Then I can die and everyone will talk about me" so he goes to a public place and kills.

But you keep talking about guns and how they are to blame. Cause that worked after Columbine right? VA Tech? That theater in CO? but this time it will be different. This time politics will work because it has in the past. Oh wait that's right...it doesn't.

as for me....bring on Fight Club.

Nope, I didn't read it because it will either just be another whine trying to cover bad parenting or another example of how fucked your health care is. Its not a tragedy, its the trade-off the US makes to be a nation of gun happy nutbags with shitty healthcare, so either fix it or stop whining when it happens

 

[Bocefish]

Nope, I didn't read it because it will either just be another whine trying to cover bad parenting or another example of how fucked your health care is. Its not a tragedy, its the trade-off the US makes to be a nation of gun happy nutbags with shitty healthcare, so either fix it or stop whining when it happens

Well done, more useless anti-American bovine excrement. :thumbleft:

 

[mynameisbob84]

Nope, I didn't read it because it will either just be another whine trying to cover bad parenting or another example of how fucked your health care is. Its not a tragedy, its the trade-off the US makes to be a nation of gun happy nutbags with shitty healthcare, so either fix it or stop whining when it happens

Well it clearly is a tragedy. Regardless of what country it happens in, and regardless of that country's gun laws, any time 26 children are shot dead... it's a tragedy.

But regrettably, the loss of innocent life is the trade-off for legal gun ownership.

 

[Bocefish]

Nope, I didn't read it because it will either just be another whine trying to cover bad parenting or another example of how fucked your health care is. Its not a tragedy, its the trade-off the US makes to be a nation of gun happy nutbags with shitty healthcare, so either fix it or stop whining when it happens

Well it clearly is a tragedy. Regardless of what country it happens in, and regardless of that country's gun laws, any time 26 children are shot dead... it's a tragedy.

But regrettably, the loss of innocent life is the trade-off for legal gun ownership.

With anything dangerous there is risk.

Like Scary statistics?

How’s this? Every 22 minutes someone dies in an alcohol-related motor vehicle accident.

And perhaps, most horrible of all a disproportionately high number of those deaths and accidents come in the 15 to 24 age group. A lot of young people are, in fact, dying before they get old …dying tragic, meaningless deaths.

Do we ban cars or alcohol?

You UK pussies that gave your rights to defend yourself can stop preaching with your holier than thou attitude because it will never happen here.