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Donald Trump. How long before he drops out?

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President Donald Trump?

  • As the Mafia would say, it's in the bag.

    Votes: 4 17.4%
  • We don't have time for polls. Elect him now!

    Votes: 2 8.7%
  • I've never heard of this man. What's his username?

    Votes: 1 4.3%
  • If he offers a sizeable tip, I may entertain his ideas.

    Votes: 5 21.7%
  • It's never gonna happen. I only vote Bush or Clinton.

    Votes: 5 21.7%
  • He's politically incorrect. Like me wit spelling and I likes that.

    Votes: 6 26.1%

  • Total voters
    23
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Most of the time they are criminals, the people who make our countries shit holes, the same people we escaped from.
What are you basing this on? How do you know this? Or is it simply a matter of you being privileged enough to take the legal route, therefore you look down on those who are not?

If you had said much of the time they are criminals...maybe.
if you had said some of the time they are criminals...almost certainly.
But most? By all means, put the data out there, and I will happily review it. If it backs your claim up, then I will concede. Otherwise, bollocks.

Don't get me wrong. Sure, there are a lot of criminals who cross. The restroom of local Chinese buffet keeps getting tagged by MS13, which unnerves me a little.

But most of the ones I have had contact with seem more interested in working sunup to sundown, no matter how shitty the job is they have landed.

Something needs to be done about immigration, for sure. I watched a family member have to jump through bureaucratic hoops for months on end before they were allowed legal entry into the country. And that makes little sense to me when you consider the wide open southern border (which I agree needs to be dealt with). But this most business you shared strikes me as extremist nonsense, completely unhelpful in furthering the discussion in an intelligent, rational manner. Perhaps your experiences have robbed you of your objectivity.


*Semantic note: I am well aware that jumping the border automatically makes one a criminal. Don't bother pointing it out.
 
From here, the Republican primaries looks like the contest to elect the dumbest politician. Each time, they try to push it further in terms of idiocy and bigotry.
 
From all the people talking on this thread it seems the only one who has actually lived in South America is me. I say this not because I presume to know things about your past, but because if you had actual first hand experience of living there for a long period of time you wouldn't talk in these terms. In Caracas and in many South American cities the majority of the people ARE criminals or the family of criminals. This is unthinkable in America and someone who has never lived in Latinamerica will think I am exaggerating or making this up. But it is 100% true. They lived submerged in a culture of violence and crime, it is what they live and breathe and it will not change simply because they cross the border illegally, they will bring this culture with them. And even if he happens to be one of the "good" barrio people, his family possibly isn't so giving the guy amnesty and a path to citizenship means he will bring his mom and dad, his brothers and sisters in as well. Which is a disaster. I was a social worker with an alphabetization program in my university that would go to the barrios to teach people how to read and write, and I got to know them personally. They do not think or act like you and me. It is almost like a different species. They have no concept of the future or grasp on morality, right or wrong doesn't even enter the equation with most of them. So yeah. When I say "most" are criminals, I mean it. The population in Venezuela who would cross a border illegally into the US are the people of the slums. Upstanding citizens who want to work and who would enrich America would NEVER cross a border. They apply for visas.

Edit: before you crucify me: I realize there are cities in SA that are nothing like this especially touristic spots like Cancun/Playa del Carmen, Costa Rica in general, etc. I am talking about the dangerous cities like Caracas and Juarez, etc.

Edit #2: oh, and @justjoinedtopost I would love to offer you data, but there is NONE because we do not even know what is coming in and how. It is a taboo subject. We have been hearing the exact same number: 12 million illegals, for the past 10 years. You would figure the number increased. There is no official information available, so everything is speculation.
 
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Upstanding citizens who want to work and who would enrich America would NEVER cross a border. They apply for visas.

Im again gonna ignore the whole top part of that cause it's just...i'm gonna be nice and just ignore it. But this last line is such pure crap I cant believe it even came out of a human beings mouth. So much wtf in that. The amount of illegals I have met here in the USA is quiet a few just to say. Ive worked with, dated, been friends with, met their families, etc and that comment is such bullshit and then some. From South America, Central America, Canada, and even from Romania and the list goes on. All illegals without visas. All wonderful people who would make you eat your words and then some. I just...I cant even right now. The assumptions made are just...distasteful and beyond wrong.
 
the only one who has actually lived in South America is me
Not true. I've lived in South America (Argentina and Colombia) and travelled throughout Latin America, living in Mexico as well.

You know what you're talking about and I agree with almost everything you say. I suspect you have a genius IQ. :)

I get tired of talking about people and what they do but something I will say on the immigration topic is that it's a major issue in almost every country I've ever visited. Citizens being afraid of it and Politicians using it as a tool... is nothing new.
 
Edit #2: oh, and @justjoinedtopost I would love to offer you data, but there is NONE because we do not even know what is coming in and how.
So you admit that you do not know.

I don't say there aren't criminals coming across the border. I don't doubt what you have shared about how bad it is down there. But I don't believe for a minute that MOST of the illegals are criminals. Been around way too many of them. More like economic refugees.

They may not have had the time or the resources to go through the long, drawn out "proper" procedures. But they didn't leave their work ethic at home.
 
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Vice has done quite a bit of investigative reporting on the violence throughout South America and the illegal immigration coming from those countries. Their HBO documentary series had an episode on Venezuela in particular.

https://www.vice.com/search?query=venezuela

If you want a good grasp on the situation there, particularly economically, there's plenty of information in these articles.

___________________________
On the threads actual subject:
And Donald Trump is nothing but a rich asshat. :asshat: None of his arguments have any substance. When he talked about Healthcare he said, "I'm going to repeal Obama Care and replace it with something better." Never explaining what "something better" was going to be. He has no plan for actually being President probably because he even knows what a damn joke he is. The entire Republican party is completely ass backwards and the fact that he's polling so well just proves that further!

Bernie Sanders 2016:party:
 
Upstanding citizens who want to work and who would enrich America would NEVER cross a border. They apply for visas.

I think this is the crux of our disagreement. You seem to think that all it takes to gain legal citizenship in America is not be a criminal. By your own admission, there are Latin Americans who want nothing more than to escape the crime and danger around them, and find a better life for them and their families. It's not as simple as applying for a visa for these people. Not being criminals isn't always enough to secure them safe and legal passage in to the country. I don't pretend to have the answers, but nor do I think that lumping these people in with the criminal element they're trying to escape is the solution here.
 
I'm not sure that data is going to change minds here, but what the hell.
First supermila is correct crime is Venezuela and much of Central and Latin America is out of control. It got much worse under Hugo Chavez. This wiki article is pretty good and it is backed up by UN data on crime (which tends to be a bit out of date and relies on official sources). For instance the murder rate in Venezuela is somewhere between 50-100 homicides per 100,000 compared to 4.5 per 100,000 in the US.Kidnapping is also very high Venezuela, possibly the highest in the world. It appears that somewhere between 5-8% of Venezuelan are victim of property crime/year compared to about 1.5% of US citizens.
It is also true that the government of Venezuela is covering up the crime date. Still there are 3rd parties who are making an effort to collect it and companies like Gallop.

Where you lose us supermila is your claim that most people are criminals cause the statistic don't even pretend to support that. A murder rate of 100 per 100,000 is very high, but that all also means 99.9% of all people don't get murdered each year. Presumably many of these murder are cartel related and their hitman kill multiple people a year before generally getting killed themselves. But anyway you figure it only a tiny percentage of Venezuelans are murderers.

So here is where your claim "So yeah. When I say "most" are criminals, I mean it." breaks down if only 8% of Venezuelans are victims of crime each year, how the hell do 51% of them commit crime? If I'm mugger, or thief I unless I get super lucky I am not going to make enough on one mugging to support me for a year. So I'm going to need to do more than one mugging a year.

Finally circumstance matter. If I'm working packaging cocaine in a cartel drug factory near Caracas getting paid a decent but not great wage, am I really a criminal? Technically of course, but in country where 98% of crimes don't get prosecuted, where the government destroy much of the economy and the cartels are some of the biggest employers, I'm not going to judge the guy too harshly. The guys who rob, kidnap, and murder sure I don't want them in the US. But the cocaine factory work, is doing a lot more harm to the US staying where he is, than making his way to the US.
 
I get tired of talking about people and what they do but something I will say on the immigration topic is that it's a major issue in almost every country I've ever visited. Citizens being afraid of it and Politicians using it as a tool... is nothing new.

This is so true and I find it disgusting. These politicians basically pick a downtrodden normally poorer minority of the population and try to pin all the country's problems on them and scare the middle classes into fearing them. It happens here in the UK with certain political parties trying to blame a whole load of problems on the Eastern European immigrants and its identical to what is happening in America with the Latin Americans.

It has happened in countless countries over the last 100 years and will sadly probably continue to happen.
 
I want to point out how expensive a visa is. If you live in a poor place, and you make shit money and are struggling to even feed your family, how the FUCK are you supposed to afford the $160+ visas for each of your family members? Mila, did you have to move a child out of Venezuela? A family of 5? A family of 8?

Edit: 160 is the lowest number I could find, and it was even for a non-immigration visa. There are many more types of even more expensive visas. It seems as though there are also other fees associated with the process. Just, geez. I can't even imagine trying to get by on no money and move my entire family when it costs that much. You have to pay a fee to apply even if you are going to be denied.
 
I want to point out how expensive a visa is. If you live in a poor place, and you make shit money and are struggling to even feed your family, how the FUCK are you supposed to afford the $160+ visas for each of your family members? Mila, did you have to move a child out of Venezuela? A family of 5? A family of 8?
Not to mention the time involved. It's not like you just go down, fill out a form, and walk out the door with a visa. Somebody that is desperate to get out of that situation is probably not going to sit around for months waiting.
 
They do not think or act like you and me. It is almost like a different species.
This might actually be the most offensive thing I've ever read on this forum.
First of all, whoa lady, you and I do NOT think alike.
Secondly, a different species? A different fucking species?!?! That's what white racist assholes said/say about people of color. Just, you know, consider that.
 
This thread derailment is making it seem like immigration issues are the only problem with Trump's running for presidency...
 
This wouldn't be an issue in England.

Mainly because in England, "trump" literally means "fart". We may be uncouth and oftentimes less than intelligent, but we could never elect a man whose surname is a colloquial expression for the act of forcing gaseous shit particles out of ones rectum.
 
Went to Wikipedia to find out what Donald Trump's platform is and here's what I found.
There's some doozies in this... :/

Political positions

Trump has stated that he is a "conservative Republican."

Domestic issues
Trump has stated his support for traditional marriage and expressed that same-sex marriage should be decided by the states, while he said of the June 2015 supreme court ruling "it's an issue that been determined by the Supreme Court. And frankly, you know, I'm about jobs." Trump supports the Second Amendment and is opposed to gun control in general, while supporting a ban on assault weapons and longer waiting periods for gun purchases.

Economy
Trump supports pro-growth policies and reduced taxation on U.S. workers and business with reduced regulation to increase economic growth and create opportunity. Trump has proposed a 1-5-10-15 income tax plan in order to simplify the tax code, where incomes of up to $30,000 would pay 1%, incomes of $30,000 to $100,000 would pay 5%, incomes of $100,000 to $1 million would pay 10%, incomes of $1 million and up would pay 15%. Further, his plan would eliminate the inheritance tax, eliminate the corporate tax, lower the capital gains tax, and instead apply a 20% import tariff and a 15% tax on outsourcing to foreign countries. Trump favors stronger trade negotiations with nations such as China, with a more level playing field on trade, to restore American jobs applying tariffs when necessary. Trump favors a free market energy policy and opposes cap and trade also called 'cap and tax'. Trump supports improving America's infrastructure.

Education
Trump favors school choice and local control for primary and secondary schools. He opposes federally mandated Common Core standards for primary and secondary schools. He has called Common Core a disaster that must be ended.

Foreign affairs and national defense
Trump has stated his intention to provide presidential leadership with strong diplomacy to restore "respect" for the United States around the world and he supports a robust national defense. In his announcement speech he said that the USA is getting weaker as a country and that its nuclear arsenal is old and does not work.

In an interview with NBC News in Charlottesville, Virginia, on July 14, 2015, Trump called the newly-announced nuclear deal with Iran "terrible", saying that the president negotiated the agreement "from desperation." He added, "I don't understand the president. He dealt from desperation, and he shouldn't have been desperate." He further stated, "First of all, we're giving them billions of dollars in this deal, which we shouldn't have given them. We should have kept the money," in reference to the sanctions relief for Iran under the deal, which was negotiated by Iran and six world powers led by the United States. "Second of all, we have four prisoners over there. We should have said 'Let the prisoners out.' They shouldn't be over there." Trump also said that any deal should stipulate that inspectors have 24-hour-a-day access immediately to all nuclear sites.

Speaking about the threat of ISIS with Anderson Cooper on CNN, Trump said he would "bomb the hell" out of Iraq's oil fields, which he believes are controlled by ISIS. "If I win, I would attack those oil sites that are controlled and owned -- they are controlled by ISIS. I wouldn't send many troops because you won't need 'em by the time I'm done."

Healthcare and Social Security
Trump favors replacing the Affordable Care Act (commonly referred to as Obamacare) with a free market plan and competition to lower costs. This is a change of his earlier support for a single-payer system. He supports funding Social Security and Medicare rather than cutting them. He has previously expressed support for allowing people to privately invest their social security dollars.

Trump is pro-life, and would ban abortion except in cases of rape, incest, or health. He is in favor of cutting federal funding for Planned Parenthood.

Trump believes that childhood vaccinations are related to autism.

Illegal immigration and border security
Trump has made U.S. border security a priority. During his announcement speech he stated in part, "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems.... They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people." On July 6, 2015, Trump issued a written statement to clarify his position on illegal immigration which drew a reaction from critics. It read in part:

"The Mexican Government is forcing their most unwanted people into the United States. They are, in many cases, criminals, drug dealers, rapists, etc. This was evident just this week when, as an example, a young woman in San Francisco was viciously killed by a 5 time deported Mexican with a long criminal record, who was forced back into the United States because they didn’t want him in Mexico. This is merely one of thousands of similar incidents throughout the United States. In other words, the worst elements in Mexico are being pushed into the United States by the Mexican government. The largest suppliers of heroin, cocaine and other illicit drugs are Mexican cartels that arrange to have Mexican immigrants trying to cross the borders and smuggle in the drugs. The Border Patrol knows this. Likewise, tremendous infectious disease is pouring across the border. The United States has become a dumping ground for Mexico and, in fact, for many other parts of the world. On the other hand, many fabulous people come in from Mexico and our country is better for it. But these people are here legally, and are severely hurt by those coming in illegally. I am proud to say that I know many hard working Mexicans—many of them are working for and with me…and, just like our country, my organization is better for it."

The Center for Immigration Studies, an immigration think-tank that advocates lowered immigration, has said that illegal immigrants are not necessarily charged and incarcerated accordingly, but account for a proportionate number of US incarcerations. Other groups such as the ACLU and the government run National Criminal Justice Reference Service (NCJRS) have said there is no demonstrated correlation between immigration and crime, and no direct evidence presented has revealed whether Mexico has policies that force people to immigrate illegally the U.S. However, over 36,000 criminally convicted illegal immigrants were released by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) in 2013, of which over 32,000 were traffic-related.
 
@BasicBasic Thanks for taking the time to put that together.

I can see why some of the lesser informed folks are jumping on his conservative bandwagon. There are some major big changes there that probably sound super appealing. But I can't imagine that even a FANTASTIC presidential candidate would be able to accomplish such high goals during a presidency. There is no way, with our current system, that such big changes could be put into place the way he makes it sound so easy peasy as pie.

And fuck banning abortion and being anti-vaccine and pro-bombing. Just asking for problems there.
 
. Upstanding citizens who want to work and who would enrich America would NEVER cross a border. They apply for visas

If this were true why do many businesses with hard working manual laborers get busted for employing illegal immigrants? Oh right, because PLENTY of illegal border crossers are more than happy to work their ass off to survive here in the "land of opportunity" and get out of their impoverished nation. Crossing the border legally is HARD and EXPENSIVE. And remember, you're a pretty successful camgirl, your yearly income is likely the income of 5 families in Mexico or South America (And that's me estimating on the lower end of the super successful camgirl spectrum).

This article sort of explains why people are willing to cross the border illegally and it's not because they're criminals (yes, crossing the border illegally is a crime, but for the sake of this argument ignore that one).

So You Want to Be an American Citizen
 
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This article sort of explains why people are willing to cross the border illegally and it's not because they're criminals (yes, crossing the border illegally is a crime, but for the sake of this argument ignore that one).

So You Want to Be an American Citizen
I mentioned earlier I got to see a family member go through this. This article injects a little humour into it, but I can tell you for a fact, it is an absolute bang-your-head-against-the-wall ordeal.
 
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I want to point out how expensive a visa is. If you live in a poor place, and you make shit money and are struggling to even feed your family, how the FUCK are you supposed to afford the $160+ visas for each of your family members?

And that's just looking on the visa fees and not looking at all the related costs. For example, I moved from Brazil to Switzerland (with my employer paying everything), had a pretty good set of conditions that made the visa approval almost guaranteed (a degree in Computer Science, hired by a top company that was paying for all my costs and offering me a long-term contract and that could prove they were supporting my move due to lack of qualified personnel in Switzerland) and even then I had to produce a gigantic pile of paperwork that kept me away from work for quite a while, cost at least 500 to 1000USD to get translated and notarised.. And that was just for me - if I were married, you could easily double that cost.

From all the people talking on this thread it seems the only one who has actually lived in South America is me. I say this not because I presume to know things about your past, but because if you had actual first hand experience of living there for a long period of time you wouldn't talk in these terms.

I'll just say that as a Brazilian who lived most of his life in Brazil, moved to Switzerland and keeps wanting to go back home, that your post made me want to facepalm, double-facepalm and head-desk, preferably all at the same time. The issues with South American countries don't originate from the people being as bad as you describe, but from a system of corruption that prevents proper punishment of those that abuse the system and break the laws.
 
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