Do you believe that rape culture is real?

[Booty_4U]

1) There are evidences of rape if instead of going home to take a shower you go to the hospital to get checked. There will be signs of struggle, DNA from the rapist on you, and they will get an officer that will take your testimony on the spot. The problem happens when victims dont take those measures and instead go home, take a shower, and destroy the evidence in doing so.

What happens when the victim is a FSSW who's date went bad? What if the police laugh in the reporting victim's face and tell them to go home? What if the victim is a little kid who's afraid to tell anyone, and years later testifies as an adult? What happens when the victim doesn't struggle? What happens when the police "loose" your rape kit? What if the rapist was the victim's spouse and they're too afraid to go to the hospital until maybe days later, once it's safe? What if the DNA on the rape kit is contaminated or found "inconclusive"?

2) The majority of ALL criminals will never be convicted. The majority of crimes are never reported. There are simply limits to what a legal system can do. Which is why smart people protect themselves and teach their children to do the same. I will teach my daughter not to walk home at 3 am drunk and alone or she could get raped. I will teach her to be cautious around strange men. Does that mean I would blame her if she gets raped? No! it means I care for her safety and want her to be safe because she is responsible for her own wellbeing.

Everyone (in Canada/USA at least) is much more likely to be raped by a relative or friend, than a stranger. Strangers raping people in dark allies or whatever is pretty uncommon. But I guess people would rather believe rape is preventable, rather than admit things like incest and domestic rape is the sad reality for most rape victims.

3) In real life people interact with rapists all the time? Sure. We cant expect every single person to shun someone or to act according to our moral values. Also, people can change... a man that raped someone when he was 18, went to jail, paid for it and repented and is 65 perhaps should have the chance to live a normal life even when what he did 40 years earlier was atrocious.

My point was that people say "no one gives rapists a free pass!" but they do. All the time. People say "false rape accusations ruin people's lives" but how many of those 3% of "false" stories were actually true and the victim was bullied out of testifying or paid to shut up, etc? How many lives do rapists have to ruin, before people think that being raped is worse than one person out of thousands, being called a rapist when they're innocent?!

 

[deblackivory]

This topic is a bit sensitive to me because there was a huge debate about Gallaudet University being a rape culture. And I believe it because our deaf community is so small that we are all somehow connected.

I was almost raped off campus as a freshman. I went to a stranger's house with my roommate and her boyfriend. There was only four of us. I told my roommate to not let me have sex even if I was drunk because I was.. pretty wild. I drank and drank. They left to go to the "bathroom" which is bull. Quickie is more like it. There he was.. smiling and touching until I snapped out of it. I was so angry that I left. But there was no where to go with no ride and I was new. I came back and there was an adult who worked at Gally. He looked at me like I lost my head and told me to wait until the morning so that he'd take us back. My roommate was annoyed at me and blamed it on my drinking too much. Her boyfriend tried to blame it off on his race because they were from Hitatus. I never told anyone because everyone seem like they knew each other expect for me because I was from mainstream.

I was a resident advisor there and I had a co worker who said she was sexually assaulted by one of the dorm resident who was a football player. What happened? The campus officer's wife called her a liar on social media when she reported it. The guy called her a liar. The people called her a liar and kept saying she was being dramatic. She was fired by the head office and forced to move out of her dorm. They said she shouldn't have been drinking. They said that she seduced him. They gossiped about her for a week and kept making excuses. Me? I saw her tears. I saw her room being trashed. I saw her misery, lost and confused about what to do.

There's couple more stories but people always go into debate about who was lying and most of the time they're on the accused's side. The accuser are almost always left alone and kicked out of whatever organization they were in. School don't want to report it because they don't want to have record. Resident advisors groan but readily tell people what they've witnessed. Officers roll their eyes every time they're called and people from mental health care come over to 'comfort' the accuser.

So yeah. To me it's real. To me rape culture is where large group of people know each other and they treat rape situation like drama. They feed on it and try to guess who's evil instead of acknowledging that there are pain and lives involved. People say they need proof but they are never willing to believe that their friend could do such thing.

I know there are liars too and they ruin lives. People like that do exist and they suck but I'm not willing to tell somebody that they need proof. I'm not willing to tell somebody that it's impossible. I'm not willing to tell somebody that they're being dramatic. I am so sick of people turning their eyes away and saying, "That's between you two. I have no problem with this person who hurt you. Let's remain friends tho?"

*edited: added deaf community in case people didn't know what Gallaudet University was

 

[Mila_]

What happens when the victim is a FSSW who's date went bad? What if the police laugh in the reporting victim's face and tell them to go home? What if the victim is a little kid who's afraid to tell anyone, and years later testifies as an adult? What happens when the victim doesn't struggle? What happens when the police "loose" your rape kit? What if the rapist was the victim's spouse and they're too afraid to go to the hospital until maybe days later, once it's safe? What if the DNA on the rape kit is contaminated or found "inconclusive"?

It depends on each particular case. Injustices happen and sometimes they can be dealt with, if the police officer loses your rape kit you can sue the police for it and the officer will probably lose their job. Your chances of having evidence against the rapist are lessened but you would still have the testimony of the hospital staff and the police officer who lost the kit to go by.

Most of the cases you mention include negligence on the part of the victim. If you didnt do everything in your power to get justice you cant expect the system to bend to you because reasons. So if you get raped and dont report it right away you shouldnt expect anything 10 years after the fact unless you compile a very convincing class action lawsuit like with the Bill Cosby case.

In the case of a date that "went wrong" and the girl was willingly in bed with the guy but at the very last second she whispered "i changed my mind" and yet doesnt get up and leave but continues to make out and then doesnt struggle or do anything when the guy fucks her, and there was alcohol involved... But she realizes the next morning she didnt really wanted it. It isnt rape, sorry, just a person who should read more self help books on how to be assertive.

In the case of marriage I dont consider a husband having sex with his wife against her will on the same level as rape. In my opinion rape's depravity has 2 levels, the superficial level is violating a woman's will or having an ugly experience. A wife does suffer these. But the worst part of a rape comes from the possibility of getting pregnant out of it and having to carry the child of a stranger who fled plus the loss of innocence. Back when innocence was a highly priced posession for a woman raping a maiden was robbing her of her most valuable asset in life and the possibility of a good marriage since her virginity was taken away and proof of paternity consequently questioned.

Today women sleep around since hitting puberty, there are contraceptive methods and abortions, virginity means nothing and rape is simply an ugly experience you can get over through counseling. But even then, being raped by your husband, someone you fucked a million times willingly cant be on the same level as having a stranger assault you on the street.

 

[deblackivory]

Today women sleep around since hitting puberty, there are contraceptive methods and abortions, virginity means nothing and rape is simply an ugly experience you can get over through counseling. But even then, being raped by your husband, someone you fucked a million times willingly cant be on the same level as having a stranger assault you on the street.

I strongly disagree as soon as I read this. There's few things I disagree with your post but this... no.

My husband is the man who I trust. He is the person who I choose to live my life with because I believe he will cherish me as much as I would cherish him. I trust that he would not take advantage of me. I trust that he will not overpower me. I trust that he would not destroy me because only he would know where I am most valuable. I trust that he learn what I like and don't like when it come to sex. I trust that he respect my limit. I trust that he will honour my body and not taint it with his ugly emotions. I trust that he would never ever push me into doing things I do not want to do. It's not a right. It's not something I am entitled to. I TRUST my husband to not rape me.

 

[Mila_]

My husband is the man who I trust. He is the person who I choose to live my life with because I believe he will cherish me as much as I would cherish him. I trust that he would not take advantage of me. I trust that he will not overpower me. I trust that he would not destroy me because only he would know where I am most valuable. I trust that he learn what I like and don't like when it come to sex. I trust that he respect my limit. I trust that he will honour my body and not taint it with his ugly emotions. I trust that he would never ever push me into doing things I do not want to do. It's not a right. It's not something I am entitled to. I TRUST my husband to not rape me.

I agree with you and I am not disputing any of this. What I am saying is, if your husband betrays your trust and rapes you be it a violent rape after a fight or the lack of assertiveness scenario, it is still someone you entered a lifetime sexual relationship with willingly, someone you love, whose sexual history and STDs are known to you, and someone you are possibly already rising a child with so if you get pregnant from that encounter the baby will have a father. It isnt the same as getting assaulted on the street by a complete stranger.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

In the case of marriage I dont consider a husband having sex with his wife against her will on the same level as rape.

I honestly can't remember the last time I read something on the internet that made me cringe like that.

 

[deblackivory]

I agree with you and I am not disputing any of this. What I am saying is, if your husband betrays your trust and rapes you be it a violent rape after a fight or the lack of assertiveness scenario, it is still someone you have had sex willingly with before, who you entered a lifetime sexual relationship with willingly, someone you love, and someone you are possibly already rising a child with so if you get pregnant from that encounter the baby will have a father. It isnt the same

You're right that it's not the same but it does not hurt any less. Maybe I'm way too emotional (I'm so blaming the Pisces horoscope) so I might not be getting it. I just think it'd hurt so much more because he's the person I know and trusted.

I wouldn't be able to stay with him. Forgive him? Probably. But I would never be able to look at him the same again. That's like my mother stabbing her ex fiancé's pillow next to him while he was sleeping (it's true sigh). I'm sure he felt violated, exposed, shocked and betrayed. It's natural for us to be angry and fight once in a while but we should never put our hand on each other. Ever. Not even if we were married for 10 years. Angry sex? Fuck yes. Rape? Fuck no. Big difference. All that time I've spend with him... gone. Shattered. Broken. I'd spend so much time analyzing myself, wondering what happened and maybe blaming myself.

I think this is where rape culture would come in as well? (Feel free to disagree as I honestly don't understand it outside of deaf community concept). People would say I should stay with him because he's my husband. Because we have kids and dogs together. Because we have a house. Because we look so frigging adorable together. They'd say it's impossible for me to be raped because we're married and it's my duty to spread my legs 24/7. Etc etc. That it should be private between us.

Whereabout a stranger? The only thing he or she would have taken is my body and probably my sanity for a while. The only thing he or she could give me is a disease and/or child but I'd have supports, love and most of all... people would believe me. Like why would I make up a lie about a stranger?

 

[Carmita Bonita]

As someone who has been raped by my ex boyfriend a big reason I didn't report it was:
1. He had threatened to kill me,my cat and my family
2. SO many people believe it isn't "real" rape or as bad as stranger rape.
3. So many people believe since there isn't a violent struggle=not rape. People discount that many times the victim could be under threat like I was and basically had no choice of fighting back without violence/death as a consequence

A lot of these assumptions/reasonings on which type of rape is "worse" than the other is just....wow. Sure it's not exactly the same but let's not discount one over the other or talk about "levels" of rape when it involves the same act. That is exactly WHY people don't want to come forward.

Also no amount of counseling has cured me of my PTSD either. It's not just some simple experience that can be easily fixed

 

[Lexi Emerson]

Yeah maybe before we so lightly throw around these comments think about the fact that anyone reading this could have been assaulted- by a stranger, a relative, a friend, a significant other. Saying this kind is worse than this kind is just really shitty. Every single situation is different, it effects people differently, the levels of violence/betrayal/emotional distress are going to be different. But it's all rape in the end, let's be aware of that and maybe just leave it at that.

 

[deblackivory]

Sorry Lexi, you're completely right.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

My claims of derailment are because the subject is rape culture. A subject that commonly gets shut down when men consistently bring up cases where a woman has lied about rape. It is very hard to have a discussion about something when people consistently focus on a tiny percentage loosely connected to the subject rather than the problem at hand. It comes across as being defensive rather than listening and talking about it rationally. That it is being brought up is an example of rape culture in motion, yet it is not being brought up as an example.
It is not "hogging victimhood". It is that this discussion is not about a tiny percentage of men who get falsely accused of rape. There are plenty of discussions that talk about other issues such as that. And no, it does not matter whether it's men or women who get raped, it is all equally bad. Women are more commonly focused on as they account for about 90% of rapes. But it's fucked up whoever gets raped, I don't think I've said anything implying that it wouldn't be as bad if it happened to a man than a woman. You are putting words in my mouth based on your own assumptions. All I am saying is that it is a subject which often gets derailed, and it gets pretty old seeing as it's something that effects 1 in 5 women. It's nearly impossible to move forwards and try to help victims convict their rapist when people continuously repeat these rare cases. This is why it's difficult to get a conviction, because the jury doesn't want to risk a mans life even if there is sufficient evidence, just in case she's the tiny percentage who is falsely accusing. I did not mean it as an attack on you, just that it gets really tiring when you've worked with victims day to day and see a lot of this stuff first hand.

Questioning rape culture is rape culture. Interesting.

The percentages do not matter to me. I have known some crazy bitches in my time. I have known of women who snapped pictures of themselves, made up to look like they have been beaten, to use in court. Other women who lied to police, claimed they were attacked, just to get their husband or boyfriend hauled off for the night after a fight.

I have also witnessed law enforcement overreaches and media overreactions working in tandem, to the detriment of society.

I have women in my family who were assaulted and did not tell anyone for years, and others who had to deal with the creeps coming up to them in public. I am not saying this is not a problem.

Education and awareness is one thing. But I have seen and heard things associated with this "rape culture" business that concern me.

Wasn't trying to put any words in your mouth, claim that you thought rape of a man was less than that of a woman. Just prodding you a little, after your melodramatic lament for the plight of women, I wasn't too sure. Life is completely dicked up, I will grant you that much.

And in your scenario, if you told a friend to walk to your house on their own and they got raped, would that be your fault or the rapists? You are saying an extreme scenario and asking me to speculate on how morally wrong it is. Awful yes if it led to those events, but we could carry on all day with extreme "what ifs?" and it would never prove a point. You might as well say to a rape victim that it's their fault if the rapist suffers pain in prison or kills himself. Would you then call them a murderer? Seriously, this is pointless speculation.

You miss the point. I shared that story (which really happened) as a counter to your audacious and hideously insensitive claim "Because going to prison just doesn't even compare to rape."

Oh also, when I talk about lack of empathy in "men". I do not mean "all men". I mean some of the guys who've posted here has seemed pretty crass and looking at it from a very one sided view, being defensive and making it seem like a women vs men. It is NOT women vs men. It is something that effects all of us. You are projecting.

So just the men who question your position?

Please don't think I am not considering what you are saying. I am, and it is helping shape my views. We have two different viewpoints, shaped by two different collections of experiences, from two different areas.

And as there seems to be a bit of victim blaming here, I could say don't sleep with or go near women if you think they might accuse you of rape. Don't go to nightclubs where you might be wrongfully accused of ass grabbing. Don't walk down a street where there are no witnesses and a woman could claim you raped/assaulted her. Always go places with a friend. Don't spend time with women alone. Don't have sex with any woman. Be careful that your clothing choices doesn't make you look like a predator. I mean, if you're really worried about being falsely accused.

And don't give a crying woman a ride to the hospital. Even if it bothers you, just keep walkin.

Examples of rape culture:
http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/03/examples-of-rape-culture/

I am not entirely on board with this list.

Spoiler

1. A university in Canada that allows the following student orientation chant: “Y is for your sister. O is for oh-so-tight. U is for underage. N is for no consent. G is for grab that ass.”

That's a little fucked. Also a problem for whatever university in Canada that happened at. Not me.

2. Pop music that tells women “you know you want it” because of these “blurred lines” (of consent).

So "Blurred Lines" is rape culture? And if I like that song?

3. A judge who sentenced only 30 days in jail to a 50-year-old man who raped a 14-year-old girl (who later committed suicide), and defended that the girl was “older than her chronological age.”

That's also fucked. Along with the Epstein case. There is a whole bunch of shit I have heard over the years about fucked up court cases. Some sex related, some not. Guilty people getting off, innocent people getting railroaded.

4. Mothers who blame girls for posting sexy selfies and leading their sons into sin, instead of talking with their sons about their responsibility for their own sexual expression.

I am glad somebody said it. I am not a fan of these young ladies doing this kind of shit. Increasingly, I am thinking people under 18 ought to just stay the fuck off the internet completely.

My younger sister had a sleepover years ago, her and some friends took some sexy pics. No nudity, but still, ick. Wasn't a fan of thinking about the developers (pre-digital days) ogling the pics either.

5. Photo memes like this:

Photo memes?

6. Supporting athletes who are charged with rape and calling their victims career-destroyers.

So 'feminists' don't like the way CNN covers stuff. Welcome to the club.

7. Companies that create decals of a woman bound and gagged in order to “promote their business.”

Is it bad this one made me laugh? Seriously though, that's wrong. Still chuckling though. But no, that's not right...

8. People who believe that girls “allow themselves to be raped.”

See response to point 4. Get the goddam kids off the internet until we get shit sorted out. Make them do book reports or something.

9. Journalists who substitute the word “sex” for “rape” – as if they’re the same thing.

Dead link. More of this "take control of the language" garbage? No way to know.

10. Politicians distinguishing “legitimate rape” and stating that rape is “something that God intended to happen,” among other horrendous claims.

One of the links on this point dead. The other goes to the "female body has a way to try and shut that whole thing down" comment by Todd Akin. So if Todd Akin's stupid remark (which I think most sane people found appalling) indicates rape culture, what does the politicians who spoke out against that comment indicate?

11. Calling college students who have the courage to report their rapes liars.

That's messed up. A college counselor not believing a rape claim? I don't know the whole story, but this links to an article that mostly talks about the support she received and how others starting coming forward too.

12. The ubiquity of street harassment – and how victims are told that they’re “overreacting” when they call it out.

That's also messed up. Not a fan of it.

13. Victims not being taken seriously when they report rapes to their university campuses.

I am starting to think shutting down all the college campuses might totally eliminate rape culture. Also starting to think this list is padded.

14. Rape jokes – and people who defend them.

Dead link. No idea what they were referring to. Do death jokes contribute to "murder culture"?

15. Sexual assault prevention education programs that focus on women being told to take measures to prevent rape instead of men being told not to rape.

What the hell is wrong with that? Sounds pretty fucking prudent to me.

16. The victimization of hospital patients, especially people with mental health issues and the elderly, by the very people who are there to protect them.

Yes, rape is fucked up.

17. Reddit threads with titles like “You just have to make sure she’s dead” when linking to the story of a 13-year-old girl in Pakistan being raped and buried alive.

Reddit threads? Don't forget 4chan.

18. Reddit threads dedicated to men causing women pain during sex (I’m not going to give the thread credence by linking to it).

Another Reddit reference?

19. Twitter hashtags that support accused rapists and blame victims.

Twitter, ofc. Should have seen it coming...

20. Publicly defending celebrities accused of rape just because they’re celebrities and ignoring or denouncing what the victim has to say.

I have a problem with celebrities/people of power being afforded a different level of justice because of their position. I also have a problem with the suggestion that media outlets should jump on the "rape culture" bandwagon.

21. Assuming that false reporting for sexual assault cases are the norm, when in reality, they’re only 2-8%, which is on par with grand theft auto.

I wonder how many people really assume that. I know personally, if I hear an accusation of sexual assault, I tend to believe the accuser.

22. Only 3% of rapists ever serving a day in jail.

While I question this number (as all numbers) I don't doubt there is something to it. This is messed up. **More on it at the end.

23. Women feeling less safe walking the streets at night than men do.

Not so sure feeling safe walking the streets at night is a good idea (or particularly relevant). Next time I am out looking over my shoulder after midnight, I'll comfort myself with the idea that somewhere out there is a woman more frightened than me.

24. 1-in-5 women and 1-in-71 men having reported experiencing rape.

So rape is clearly occuring.

25. The fact that we have to condition ourselves not to use violent language in our everyday conversations.

Aaaand this point, I believe, is the whole purpose. Get control of the speech.

**I had a female family member tell me about a sexual assault that happened years ago. She didn't breathe a word of it because she didn't want to hurt someone else in the family. So she kept it to herself until the person she was worried about protecting died. When she told me about it years later, she bawled. Completely rattled my worldview, because it was another family member who committed the assault.

It troubles me to think that her experience might be used as fodder for a shallow movement that associates cherry picked Reddit threads and Twitter hashtags, or a song like "Blurred Lines", as contributing factors in what she went through.

 

[Lexi Emerson]

Sorry Lexi, you're completely right.

Don't be sorry! You were just continuing the conversation and my comment wasn't really directed at you. I just think sometimes we all get too into these conversations and don't think about how someone suffering could read it and really take what's said to heart (like the comment said about rape by a husband isn't as bad as a rape by a stranger).

 

[Mila_]

A lot of these assumptions/reasonings on which type of rape is "worse" than the other is just....wow. Sure it's not exactly the same but let's not discount one over the other or talk about "levels" of rape when it involves the same act. That is exactly WHY people don't want to come forward.

Yeah maybe before we so lightly throw around these comments think about the fact that anyone reading this could have been assaulted- by a stranger, a relative, a friend, a significant other. Saying this kind is worse than this kind is just really shitty. Every single situation is different, it effects people differently, the levels of violence/betrayal/emotional distress are going to be different. But it's all rape in the end, let's be aware of that and maybe just leave it at that.

We can't have an adult discussion about any issue if we have to walk on eggshells around everybody for fear of triggering their own personal past experiences. If someone was raped or they are really sensitive to this subject, perhaps avoiding a thread about the topic is the best course of action.

That said, I understand that there are attenuating circumstances to every foul act, but feminists who hold the "rape culture" theory as real want us to live in a world free of context where groping a stranger at a club is treated the same problem as raping a girl. Then, the same feminists who want us to pretend these two scenarios are the same demand from everyone a super nuanced view of the things they want like abortion.

Take abortion for example, I am completely against it, it is an atrocious thing to do in my opinion. And yet, I understand that it is not the same to abort a 5th time because you are a negligent fucker who doesn't use contraception than someone who is aborting because the baby is putting her life in danger, or because the baby comes with a really awful malformation. It isn't the same, not in a million years. And feminists push everyone not only to consider these differences carefully but they demand we take the exceptions as the rule, forget about the fact that the vast majority of abortions are done to women who simply didn't care enough to use contraception. They call this negligence "an accident" when it isn't.

But when it comes to rape, suddenly we need to put a guy in jail who went out on a date with a girl who got in bed with him willingly, they were both a little bit drunk, they ended up having sex, she didn't struggle and then the next day when she regrets the episode she claims she was raped just because in retrospect she wasn't too sure she wanted to fuck the guy. Feminists want us to equate an "objectifying stare" from a man in the street to violent rape put it all in the "Rape Culture" bag and pretend like it's a pervasive problem.

And the worst part is it isn't even real, it is all political. Feminism doesn't care about rape. If it cared about rape it would fight islam. Not organize a "women's march" with islamist groups. Feminists wouldn't wear burqas in support of islam or fight to bring in more and more muslim immigrants from countries where women are seen like cattle and then defend these immigrants when they sexually attack more than 1000 women at a New Year celebration in Cologne.

 

[Booty_4U]

We can't have an adult discussion about any issue if we have to walk on eggshells around everybody for fear of triggering their own personal past experiences. If someone was raped or they are really sensitive to this subject, perhaps avoiding a thread about the topic is the best course of action.

So victims should just let people who haven't been assaulted (and think rape culture is a conspiracy theory), speak for them? lol

That said, I understand that there are attenuating circumstances to every foul act, but feminists who hold the "rape culture" theory as real want us to live in a world free of context where groping a stranger at a club is treated the same problem as raping a girl. Then, the same feminists who want us to pretend these two scenarios are the same demand from everyone a super nuanced view of the things they want like abortion.

I don't see anyone saying groping and rape are the exact same thing, but both are acts of sexual violence that can ruin a victim's life. And abortion is probably brought up because rapes often result in pregnancy...

Take abortion for example, I am completely against it, it is an atrocious thing to do in my opinion. And yet, I understand that it is not the same to abort a 5th time because you are a negligent fucker who doesn't use contraception than someone who is aborting because the baby is putting her life in danger, or because the baby comes with a really awful malformation. It isn't the same, not in a million years. And feminists push everyone not only to consider these differences carefully but they demand we take the exceptions as the rule, forget about the fact that the vast majority of abortions are done to women who simply didn't care enough to use contraception. They call this negligence "an accident" when it isn't.

If someone IS getting multiple abortions, it's because they know they don't want to be pregnant and give birth... so why would anyone want to force that upon them? Pregnancy is not a punishment for being sexually active (or raped). If someone gets an abortion, how does that effect you?? There are already millions of children in foster care and waiting to be adopted. Do their lives not matter?

But when it comes to rape, suddenly we need to put a guy in jail who went out on a date with a girl who got in bed with him willingly, they were both a little bit drunk, they ended up having sex, she didn't struggle and then the next day when she regrets the episode she claims she was raped just because in retrospect she wasn't too sure she wanted to fuck the guy. Feminists want us to equate an "objectifying stare" from a man in the street to violent rape put it all in the "Rape Culture" bag and pretend like it's a pervasive problem.

Just because someone doesn't struggle during rape, doesn't mean they "had sex and then regret it later". The people who "cry wolf" about rape are such a small minority... it's statistically way more likely that someone was actually raped. And you may think you'd kick an attempted rapist's ass, but when it happens victims are often in shock or maybe they don't resist because if they do they know the rapist will overpower them, beat them up and/or kill them. Rapey staring and groping in public is part of the bigger problem, which contributes to "rape culture". Not all people who grope others against their will are rapists, but I bet a lot of rapists grope people against their will. And not holding public gropers and catcallers, etc accountable for their actions, allows these behaviors to continue. Rapists and gropers can continue to rape and grope, because there are generally no consequences!

And the worst part is it isn't even real, it is all political. Feminism doesn't care about rape. If it cared about rape it would fight islam. Not organize a "women's march" with islamist groups. Feminists wouldn't wear burqas in support of islam or fight to bring in more and more muslim immigrants from countries where women are seen like cattle and then defend these immigrants when they sexually attack more than 1000 women at a New Year celebration in Cologne.

I think most feminists agree that rape is awful and shouldn't be so pervasive... it's not about political agendas! Plus how are we supposed to act morally superior to other societies, when children are getting raped all the time by people in Western communities? How can we lecture other countries about rape, when like 1 in 6 people in North America will be raped or sexually assaulted? Who are we to say other cultures are more "rapey" than ours, when the US has an alleged rapist for president and domestic rape & incest are so widespread (yet ignored and never discussed) in Western culture? People act like Islam is the worst thing to ever happen, but ignore the fact that Christian/Catholic priests and shit have raped thousands of children in the West....

Edited to add: Terrorist attacks are horrible, but most "terrorist attacks" in North America are committed by homegrown white Christian males. Collectively, white dudes mass murder more people in North America, than anyone else. The media distracts us with horror stories from other countries... but where is the outrage against white guys? Shouldn't they be warning us to watch out for white men, since statistically that is who is most likely to shoot up a school or church??

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Rape culture? Yes or no?

 

[Mila_]

I think most feminists agree that rape is awful and shouldn't be so pervasive... it's not about political agendas! Plus how are we supposed to act morally superior to other societies, when children are getting raped all the time by people in Western communities? How can we lecture other countries about rape, when like 1 in 6 people in North America will be raped or sexually assaulted? Who are we to say other cultures are more "rapey" than ours, when the US has an alleged rapist for president and domestic rape & incest are so widespread (yet ignored and never discussed) in Western culture? People act like Islam is the worst thing to ever happen, but ignore the fact that Christian/Catholic priests and shit have raped thousands of children in the West....

This is EXACTLY what I meant... it must be exhausting doing all these mental gymnastics to justify your contradictory beliefs.

 

[EspiKvlt]

I am also in the "didn't report my rape because it was my ex-boyfriend" camp.

The idea that my experience is less valid is astounding. But it's also precisely the reason I failed to report my rape.

I have been accused so many times of being the reason other girls will be raped because I didn't report it. But if I had felt reporting it would have mattered, and wouldn't result in something horrible happening to myself or my cats, I probably would have done it.

Continuing to invalidate the experiences of others is contributing to the rape culture that exists in our society, and my own experiences as well as others' in this thread are proof of that.

 

[EspiKvlt]

Also I just read through this entire thread and wowee that was a LOT to take in so I'm gonna go look at bunnies now per @MFCGod's post on the first page. I only wish he had said that later in the thread so I could have had that warm, calming laugh later on in this extremely hard to read thread.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Does this contribute to the problem of "rapey staring"? Yes or no?

 

[Mila_]

So victims should just let people who haven't been assaulted (and think rape culture is a conspiracy theory), speak for them? lol

And by the way... why do you assume people who are capable of being objective on this and don't act all triggered when discussing the subject is because they have never been assaulted? I have been sexually assaulted, the last time happened when I was 15 (and a virgin) by the first guy I ever dated. It didn't ruin my life, I didn't get PTSD and it wasn't rape. What happened is I cried, broke up with him, felt ashamed for a couple of weeks and then I moved on. I am sure I could have milked the episode for tons of compassion and feminist brownie points, but I have no need for either.

 

[EspiKvlt]

And by the way... why do you assume people who are capable of being objective on this and don't act all triggered when discussing the subject is because they have never been assaulted?

Hit agree cus of this, by the way. Let's all try to refrain from jumping to assumptions about others due to their opinions. I'm definitely not innocent on this matter, but let's all just try to not put the ass in assumption.

 

[JickyJuly]

If everyone in here who had been sexually assaulted left the thread, would there be a thread?

 

[SMuser69]

If everyone in here who had been sexually assaulted left the thread, would there be a thread?

Probably, because the thread is about rape culture not about if you've been a rape victim.

 

[deblackivory]

If everyone in here who had been sexually assaulted left the thread, would there be a thread?

Yes. Because people will grab every chance to deny rape exist. *edited spelling*

Does this contribute to the problem of "rapey staring"? Yes or no?

No. I personally don't care if you stare but no one is asking to be approached inappropriately unless they invite you to.

Clothes is not a way to communicate consent.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

No. I personally don't care if you stare but no one is asking to be approached inappropriately unless they invite you to.

Clothes is not a way to communicate consent.

Just to be clear, I did not bring up "rapey staring". Idk, I think Kitsune and Booty_4U brought that up.
It is also exactly the sort of nonsense I have heard brought up before that gives me pause about "rape culture".
Not suggesting that this attire justifies catcalling, unwanted groping, etc...

Is rapey staring part of the rape culture problem?
If it is, would a woman dressing like this exacerbate the situation?
Should I get consent before engaging in rapey staring?

edit: please forgive the short lived poo rating. I completely misinterpreted what you posted.
edit: also...

Yes. Because people will grab every chance to deny rape exist. *edited spelling*

I think that is bullshit

 

[SaffronBurke]

Should I get consent before engaging in rapey staring?

Just... Like... Don't stare. Staring in general is rude, creepy staring doubly so.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Just... Like... Don't stare. Staring in general is rude, creepy staring doubly so.

Yeah, no shit. I don't do it, mother taught me better. I know as a man, having people stare at me is very uncomfortable.

Do you have an opinion on the question I asked?
Is rapey staring part of the rape culture problem?

 

[Booty_4U]

And by the way... why do you assume people who are capable of being objective on this and don't act all triggered when discussing the subject is because they have never been assaulted? I have been sexually assaulted, the last time happened when I was 15 (and a virgin) by the first guy I ever dated. It didn't ruin my life, I didn't get PTSD and it wasn't rape. What happened is I cried, broke up with him, felt ashamed for a couple of weeks and then I moved on. I am sure I could have milked the episode for tons of compassion and feminist brownie points, but I have no need for either.

So do you think people who develop PTSD are weak or something? Do you think it's possible for someone to just will them self *not* to get PTSD?? Do you think war vets and refugees with PTSD are just "milking" it for feminist brownie points too?

Yeah, no shit. I don't do it, mother taught me better. I know as a man, having people stare at me is very uncomfortable.

Do you have an opinion on the question I asked?
Is rapey staring part of the rape culture problem?

I've been catcalled while wearing a winter coat/hat/scarf/gloves/etc, it's not clothes that's the problem, it's more due to the fact that most people know that there won't be consequences for their creepy actions - and no consequences is a big part of rape culture/why rape culture exists.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

I've been catcalled while wearing a winter coat/hat/scarf/gloves/etc, it's not clothes that's the problem, it's more due to the fact that most people know that there won't be consequences for their creepy actions - and no consequences is a big part of rape culture/why rape culture exists.

Is rapey staring part of the rape culture problem?

If so, what consequences should there be?

 

[Mila_]

So do you think people who develop PTSD are weak or something? Do you think it's possible for someone to just will them self *not* to get PTSD?? Do you think war vets and refugees with PTSD are just "milking" it for feminist brownie points too?

This is the last time I engage you in this post because it is evident that you are too much of a militant feminist to read what I write without twisting my words.

No, I don't believe people who develop PTSD are weak, or any of the other things you said. What I was trying to explain is that rape and sexual attacks are not a life ruining experience for everyone. It isn't traumatic for everyone. It isn't the end of the world for everyone. Which is what feminists make it out to be.

When Samantha Geimer, the woman who was raped by Roman Polanski when she was 13, came forward to say that the experience didn't ruin her life, that her rape wasn't a big deal to her and that worse things happen in life... feminists went insane. Can you believe that? Feminists angry at the victim of a rape because she recovered easily from it. It's like feminists want every woman to be a victim and to feel helpless just to prove their point. Like you, you gave my sexual attack testimony a "facepalm" rating because I guess I didn't suffer enough for your standards. So you don't care about sexual attack victims speaking for themselves in this thread, it is just a pose.

In a previous comment you said that GROPING a woman ruins her life. Seriously. Groping her. I was over my sexual attack in 2 weeks, I dont think about it, ever, and it meant nothing to me. I used to get groped a lot when I lived in South America too, in the subway, at clubs, at crowded places... it's much more common there. It ruined maybe the 5 minutes that I had to spend in close proximity to the groper before I could leave the crowd. That's it. And I don't think I am a particularly strong person, I just think that some people want all this to be much more difficult than it is to further a political agenda.

Do you know what ruins your life? Communism. Communism ruins your life. Sometimes you can't eat for a whole day because there is no food. There are shortages of electricity and water when you least expect it, when you are in an elevator or trapped in a subway 6 meters below the ground with no A/C for 2 hours because the power is gone. Your cousin dies of pneumonia because there aren't any drugs in the country to treat a simple infection. They trap you in, take away your home, kill you for dissenting. Communism gave me PTSD. Groping? It gave me a laugh with my girlfriends later.