do you believe in god? and how much?

[Jupiter551]

I'm not looking to challenge any beliefs here, and a debate isn't necessary (though feel free), I'm just interested in an anonymous poll of who believes there is a specific divine force at work, and whether they kinda believe it, really believe it, or think it's a myth.

 

[Bocefish]

I was raised Catholic, however, I've never been religious. Religions are a major part of the problems the world still faces today, IMO. Peace in the middle east is an oxymoron and always has been. I attend my own kinda church where and when I choose to and it's usually as far away from population as possible.

 

[Anonymous]

I too was raised Catholic, which is a 70% sure-fire way to make sure your kids turn out Atheists :lol:

 

[Evvie]

My choice was not available:

I believe in plenty of gods but I do not worship any or attend a church or temple.

It is possible to believe strongly in a god(s) but not have any desire to worship or interact with them.

As far as religions go, I like lots of religions and find them to be very interesting as an early form of philosophy. I am currently reading a book that relates the typical religion's (Judeo-Christian religions in this case not being typical, especially Protestantism) mythology to a path similar to that of the individual's development; that is, the spiritual and ethical growth of every normal (not sociopathic) human being is reflected in any number of ancient religions, perfectly typified by the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Celts, and so on. Christianity differs in that I do not believe it has fully developed yet; Christianity seems stuck in the "child" phase of human development where all baser evil urges are harshly curbed by authority figures (id est, the demonic figures of hell are strictly curbed by the ouranic entities, with no attempt for the two to reconcile) and has yet to reach a phase that other religions reach, the integration and acknowledgement that people do bad things and that's okay, as long as you have it under control. (Christianity is also interesting that in most other religions, the younger generation overthrows the old and the older generation is seen as evil; in Christianity, the angels rise up against God - wherein normally God would be seen as a corruption - but instead the youthful rebellion is overthrown and typified as ultimate evil).

So in various ways I highly approve of religion as a narrative to the individual. In other ways, I disapprove of religion completely. But it's hard to say "I don't like religion!" in the same way it's hard to say, "I don't like science!" You can have a problem with the way research is skewed, the way scientists are promoted, scientific theories themselves, how information is published, the way the history of science is presented, current scientific leaders in their fields, et cetera - but in the end, there is so much involved in "religion" and "science" that I usually assume people who say "that's a bad thing!" are referring to only one facet of the issue.

As far as people believing or not in gods - I find in a conversation people do not like to say they believe in any sort of divine presence. It often seems the only way I can get people to admit that they worship a god is to tell them I believe that doing so is okay first. And even then they act embarrassed - depending on where they are. It's kind of upsetting to watch.

 

[16_bit]

I don't believe in a god or gods. My parents baptised me but they never took me to church or really told me anything about religion. I'm thankful for that, it's let me choose for myself and i choose not to follow any religion.
I don't have a problem with anyone believing in any religion, and if that religion helps them with their life and to deal with things then that's great. I'm more than happy to join in when i'm round a person's house and they are religious. My problem comes when a person tries to force their beliefs and religion onto me. I respect that you have a faith, please respect that i don't.

 

[Crumb]

do I believe in God? no
do I believe in a god? maybe, i'm not sure yet

I was raised a christian, but over the past several years, I've come to the conclusion that it's illogical to believe in the existence of one god while denying the existence of others.
the big G god even says in his commandments "Thou shalt have none other gods before me" it doesn't say that there isn't any other gods, you just can't worship them above him... he even says he's a jealous god.
and that jesus guy, he had good PR

 

[Evvie]

do I believe in God? no
do I believe in a god? maybe, i'm not sure yet

I was raised a christian, but over the past several years, I've come to the conclusion that it's illogical to believe in the existence of one god while denying the existence of others.
the big G god even says in his commandments "Thou shalt have none other gods before me" it doesn't say that there isn't any other gods, you just can't worship them above him... he even says he's a jealous god.
and that jesus guy, he had good PR

If I may be so bold, the one thing I dislike in general about people who practice Christianity is they often have a big to-do about their religion being the "only real one". Christianity evolved as every other religion of its time did, from other beliefs. As far as I know there is nothing about Christianity (except those things I said in my last post) which is original, at all. It's a fine religion you've got there but it's no more "real" than any other and certainly not some unique divine creation. I know of no pagans who deny each other's beliefs, and I've never yet heard a Christian say that other religions are, in a word, "possible".

 

[AllisonWilder]

I don't believe in anything other than myself, however silly that may sound. I can't look to some unseen, unknown force for answers, only to myself since I believe that I'm the one that makes my destiny.

 

[Rose]

"I have no fucking clue" wasn't an option, but that's me. Undecided just doesn't aptly describe my feelings on it.

I was raised a traditional Southern Nazarene, even to the point that dancing was a sin. After my experiences with the church and the downright hatefulness shown by the church leaders, I've just ended up very confused. I've never witnessed that kind of intolerance and cruelty anywhere else in my life and the fact that these adults did that to me when I was a 13 year old child is just confusing and frustrating. It completely upended all of my core beliefs and morals. At this point in my life even thinking about anything beyond what I can see and feel gives me a headache. It brings up a lot of heartache and pain so I mostly just ignore it. :?

I'm a good example of why too strict parents, judgement, being ignored and conditional love are a bad way to raise children.

 

[BabyGirlRed]

Long story short:

I was raised in a Lutheran Christian family. We didn't go to church often.

When I was about 11, I became quite interested in "god" and would attend church services regularly. I soon went into the "confirmation class" that was provided at our local Lutheran church. I was so obsessed with Christianity that I studied the bible and read it from front to back.

...then I had many questions-- Many of which the Pastor of the church was unable to answer. Then I had some doubts, studied a bit further, and became an Atheist.

I personally do not have a problem with anyone believing in any god. I think that some of the basic "rules" or "commandments" of many religions are great. I do have a problem with those of certain religions judging those of different beliefs.

That's it. That's all.
Live happy. Live well. Don't be a douche. Those are my beliefs.

I wish for no replies to my comment because after a while, I get quite tired of reading page after page of debates and hatred.

Feel free to give me "thanks" if you like and/or agree with what I have to say. (also, "thanks" make me feel fabulous and important. You can go ahead and thank me just because.)

Thanks are great.
Thanks are good.
Let us thank thanks
For this food (for thought).

 

[Crumb]

do I believe in God? no
do I believe in a god? maybe, i'm not sure yet

I was raised a christian, but over the past several years, I've come to the conclusion that it's illogical to believe in the existence of one god while denying the existence of others.
the big G god even says in his commandments "Thou shalt have none other gods before me" it doesn't say that there isn't any other gods, you just can't worship them above him... he even says he's a jealous god.
and that jesus guy, he had good PR

If I may be so bold, the one thing I dislike in general about people who practice Christianity is they often have a big to-do about their religion being the "only real one". Christianity evolved as every other religion of its time did, from other beliefs. As far as I know there is nothing about Christianity (except those things I said in my last post) which is original, at all. It's a fine religion you've got there but it's no more "real" than any other and certainly not some unique divine creation. I know of no pagans who deny each other's beliefs, and I've never yet heard a Christian say that other religions are, in a word, "possible".

I completely agree with you.

 

[southsamurai]

religion... the only topic worse than politics!

that being said: i was raised mostly baptist, but by hippie parents, so it was never like utterly required that i believe. by the time i was 11ish i was asking those pesky questions in bible school, much to the anger and chagrin of the people in charge. you know the ones. "But what about dinosaurs?" (the answer: they were killed by fire storms before adam and eve. dont even get me started on the insanity of that answer) "If there was Adam and Eve, and they had two sons, Cain and Abel, and Cain killed Abel, who did Cain have sex with to make more people?"

needless to say i didn't go there much longer. i found wicca/neo-pagainsm soon after that. it was fun, had cool rituals and the deities were waaaaayyyyy more interesting. over the years i studied the "old path" along with weird stuff like thelema and other ritual magic religions. throughout it all i looked into just about all of the major ones and some of the minor ones. taoism and buddhism are what stuck for the most part. you can be either one and still believe just about anything else and its all good. plus taoism tends to sync up well with quantum mechanics so i feel all pseudo scientific when i study it.

 

[Jupiter551]

My choice was not available:

I believe in plenty of gods but I do not worship any or attend a church or temple.

It is possible to believe strongly in a god(s) but not have any desire to worship or interact with them.

Apologies, I kind of meant number 2 as that response but when I look at it now "regular churchgoer" implies that you go at all. I think the vast majority of people who believe somewhat in a basic deific concept don't attend any kind of formal services.

"I have no fucking clue" wasn't an option, but that's me. Undecided just doesn't aptly describe my feelings on it.

Fair enough, well the truth is none of us have a fucking clue - not really. There are people who think they do, and people who think they KNOW they don't, but no one knows for sure - simply because it's impossible to prove that something doesn't exist, and equally impossible to disprove it. I can't, for instance, disprove invisible murlocs that are so agile that they manage to avoid any collision with us. Doesn't mean they're real.

I will simply say that there is quite a lot that humans have discovered about physics, biology, evolution, matter interaction at atomic and sub-atomic matter and in all that, there has been not a shred of evidence to suggest there is an intelligence overseeing the universe. Basically if it were anything else but religion, over which people kill and die, we'd have all called it a myth long ago. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[Nordling]

Technically, I'm what is called a "weak atheist." That is, someone who doesn't believe in a god(s) but doesn't say "God(s) don't exist." Because like Jupe said, there no way of knowing, but logically, the default is non-belief when no evidence is present. But as soon as a burning bush, talking snake or cranky donkey starts chatting me up, I'll be right there in the pews.

 

[tubby556]

Atheist. I don't buy it, I don't believe it and most religions are really cults with political goals.

If Christians really truly learned about the history of Christianity, I bet they'd have a different outlook on it.

 

[AudreyAnna]

I am Christian.
I am typically ridiculed/looked down upon for it...called stupid....brainwashed..weak...told that I believe in fairy tales and that only idiots believe in God. It's a bit upsetting, to be honest.
What's even more upsetting though, is when I see/hear other "Christians" acting completely opposite of how Jesus wanted us to act. Judging, self-righteous, condemning, mean-spirited..just to name a few. This has perpetrated the image that all Christians are hypocrites and/or loonies. Ofcourse, then people who try to put me down bring up these "Christians" as examples of why my beliefs are invalid. They absolutely love to bring up the Crusades or the Inquisition..I try to point out that me saying I'm a Buddhist, won't magically make me a Buddhist..just like somebody calling themselves a Christian..isn't really a Christian if they willfully act against what Jesus taught.
I don't push my beliefs on anybody, unless they ask me questions and genuinely want to know.
I have noticed that ( and I'm pretty sure I've seen it even in this forum) - Christianity is often ridiculed...it makes me a bit sad since I don't ridicule atheists..and I'm sure if I started saying some of the stuff about atheists that is said about Christians..that I would get a lot of heat.
I know it's hard to relate to somebody who has a totally different belief system...one that you think is ridiculous, even..but I think it would be cool if people considered the next time they say "Christians are weak-minded people who can't deal with reality so they made up an imaginary guy in the sky to make themselves feel better" or something of the sort..that, well, to some people it's their heart and soul's belief. I hope this all made sense.... Cheers everyone!

 

[Nordling]

I am Christian.
I am typically ridiculed/looked down upon for it...called stupid....brainwashed..weak...told that I believe in fairy tales and that only idiots believe in God. It's a bit upsetting, to be honest.
What's even more upsetting though, is when I see/hear other "Christians" acting completely opposite of how Jesus wanted us to act. Judging, self-righteous, condemning, mean-spirited..just to name a few. This has perpetrated the image that all Christians are hypocrites and/or loonies. Ofcourse, then people who try to put me down bring up these "Christians" as examples of why my beliefs are invalid. They absolutely love to bring up the Crusades or the Inquisition..I try to point out that me saying I'm a Buddhist, won't magically make me a Buddhist..just like somebody calling themselves a Christian..isn't really a Christian if they willfully act against what Jesus taught.
I don't push my beliefs on anybody, unless they ask me questions and genuinely want to know.
I have noticed that ( and I'm pretty sure I've seen it even in this forum) - Christianity is often ridiculed...it makes me a bit sad since I don't ridicule atheists..and I'm sure if I started saying some of the stuff about atheists that is said about Christians..that I would get a lot of heat.
I know it's hard to relate to somebody who has a totally different belief system...one that you think is ridiculous, even..but I think it would be cool if people considered the next time they say "Christians are weak-minded people who can't deal with reality so they made up an imaginary guy in the sky to make themselves feel better" or something of the sort..that, well, to some people it's their heart and soul's belief. I hope this all made sense.... Cheers everyone!

You made perfect sense, and it may surprise you... I'm an atheist and agree with much of what you say, and completely respect your beliefs. I try not to belittle people for their beliefs...after all, atheists are quite possibly the most hated segment of people by the general population. So yeah, I understand.

 

[lordmagellan]

From the posts I deduce two things: religion seems to turn people atheist, and people tend to confuse religion with god.

What I mean by the second is most everyone who's posted so far has said something to the effect of "I don't believe in this certain god based on this religion's teachings." The two are separate but equal.... unless they're real. Religion is definitely man-made. God probably is, too.

I'm kinda like Nordling- god is like Schrodinger's cat: it may be/ it may not be. There's a chance we haven't found the box to open to find the god-being. There's equally a chance that there is no box to discover.

Mostly, I'm staunchly atheist. Many things that have been attributed to "God" in the past have been studied and figured out and understood (the tides going in and out, for a recent pop cultural example; fucking magnets for another). A friend told me once, "Understanding will be the thing that finally destroys religion." And I'm with Neil D. Tyson- paraphrasing, "If we're created in God's image, or we're designed by some 'Intelligent Designer,' then why do we breathe through the same hole we eat with? That's not very intelligent design!"

But as an artist/writer/creator and lover of myth a part of me can't help but wonder. Am I responsible for what I create? That's a lot of responsibility and it's something I've been thinking about a lot recently, thanks in no small part to TED radio hour. If it's all just me, then it's my fault I'm not writing (accepted) or painting (again). But it's also all me when I enter that state, that strange frequency that tunes in, when I reach that other plane and all else ceases to exist. And all those voices telling me their stories are just me, talking to myself (admittedly, I do, often).

It's hard for me to see creation in the world and not believe in some form of magic, and I don't mean the sleight of hand or camera tricks of Vegas showmen. And if I believe in magic, even for a second, I have to believe in the possibility of another- metaphysical- being; a "god," for all intents and purposes.

But, ever the skeptic, I must apply some logic and reason and demand evidence.


I know this for certain: god is dog spelled backward, or vice versa.
Take that, cat lovers! Cat spelled backward is tac! And that's like tack only missing a letter, so it's incomplete like your life; because you like cats!



I'm totally kidding, I love all animals. I turn into a mush pile with them. I just got stuck on a tangent.

I need a shower....



Edit: Also, I feel the need to add- I mock everything, especially religion, and since I'm usually surrounded by Christians, they get the brunt of it. But mostly, if you take anything too seriously, I'm probably mocking you. If I worship anything it's laughter.

 

[lordmagellan]

I am Christian.
I am typically ridiculed/looked down upon for it...called stupid....brainwashed..weak...told that I believe in fairy tales and that only idiots believe in God. It's a bit upsetting, to be honest.
What's even more upsetting though, is when I see/hear other "Christians" acting completely opposite of how Jesus wanted us to act. Judging, self-righteous, condemning, mean-spirited..just to name a few. This has perpetrated the image that all Christians are hypocrites and/or loonies. Ofcourse, then people who try to put me down bring up these "Christians" as examples of why my beliefs are invalid. They absolutely love to bring up the Crusades or the Inquisition..I try to point out that me saying I'm a Buddhist, won't magically make me a Buddhist..just like somebody calling themselves a Christian..isn't really a Christian if they willfully act against what Jesus taught.
I don't push my beliefs on anybody, unless they ask me questions and genuinely want to know.
I have noticed that ( and I'm pretty sure I've seen it even in this forum) - Christianity is often ridiculed...it makes me a bit sad since I don't ridicule atheists..and I'm sure if I started saying some of the stuff about atheists that is said about Christians..that I would get a lot of heat.
I know it's hard to relate to somebody who has a totally different belief system...one that you think is ridiculous, even..but I think it would be cool if people considered the next time they say "Christians are weak-minded people who can't deal with reality so they made up an imaginary guy in the sky to make themselves feel better" or something of the sort..that, well, to some people it's their heart and soul's belief. I hope this all made sense.... Cheers everyone!

I believe it was Ghandi (one of them) who said, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ."
Unfortunately, those who are acting contrary to your beliefs of the actual Christianity are the loud ones who get heard.

 

[TashaDutch]

i don't believe there's a person in the sky.. and a person in the center of the earth that decide together what we should or shouldn't do
every human beeing is capable of doing right or wrong, everybody makes mistakes, and some people are genuinely evil
i don't think that has anything to do with a god.. a devil... or whatever people have come up with
i do believe there is something beyond this world, but these days it seems that people need to call it god, or dismiss the thing as whole, there's no grey area for most people

i had a conversation with my dad this week that pretty much sums up how i feel about religion and alot related subjects
he said a pretty wise thing:
'the general view of people changes every century, there for science, religion, and pretty much everything else changes with that'

so do i believe? yes.. but not in a book that was written ages after the actual stories happened..
and not in a higher power that will be punishing you for beeing human
and not in scientific tests that will tell us the truth about everything.. and tell us another truth the next day

i'm totally fine with everyone believing whatever they want to believe in, but they shouldn't blame anyone's behavier on it
..religion is a paranoid way of living the life other people want you to live
science is human opinion of a view that is generally accepted by people
and after all.. none of us have any clue whats really true or not, the truth is different from every point of view

there were times when science meant saying the earth is flat
who are we to claim that everything that is 'proven' now is the truth?
loads of studies are proven 'wrong' or ' right' everyday... studies that our parents and grandparents stuck by because it was 'proven'
think of all the people who have done incredible things for our world, but at the moment they were doing it, everybody thought they were mentally disturbed..

in my point of view it works the same way with religion.. and i pretty much think its all bullshit, because we decide ourselfs what we do, want, and think!
i don't think anyone should just accept a general truth for their own truth.. if everybody would have done that, we'd still be shitting in the bushes and entertaining ourselfs with sticks

(i didn't answer the poll cause none of the options seem to suit my opinion )

 

[Jupiter551]

But as soon as a burning bush, talking snake or cranky donkey starts chatting me up, I'll be right there in the pews.

If that happens to me I'll be checking to see if someone spiked my drink first, then hoping I don't have a brain tumour.

I have noticed that ( and I'm pretty sure I've seen it even in this forum) - Christianity is often ridiculed...it makes me a bit sad since I don't ridicule atheists..and I'm sure if I started saying some of the stuff about atheists that is said about Christians..that I would get a lot of heat.

While I will never (purposely) ridicule someone for their beliefs, I think I need to point out that atheism (notice the lower case 'a') is not a belief system, nor a 'movement'. While I understand the point you're trying to make I can't help but note that it's actually not possible to ridicule an atheist about their beliefs, because you're essentially just ridiculing science, logic and reason. We like to think we live in an age of reason, science has created many of the things around us, and what's more noble is that science is neutral about what it finds, science relies on evidence - provable things, either in theory or fact - when a theory or belief is shown to be false it is abandoned and science moves on. No one is out there trying to disprove god, in fact much western science can be traced back since the Renaissance to the church who actually initiated scientific experiments to PROVE the existence of god. They have had troubling results ever since.

It's hard for me to see creation in the world and not believe in some form of magic, and I don't mean the sleight of hand or camera tricks of Vegas showmen. And if I believe in magic, even for a second, I have to believe in the possibility of another- metaphysical- being; a "god," for all intents and purposes.

One can be dazzled by the complexity, beauty, synchronicity of the natural universe without some metaphysical being surely? In a sense science IS magic. It's magic that always works - every single time. The only time it appears to not work is when we either don't understand or havent seen a causal effect within it. There IS magic, it's real, if a universe of almost limitless size that works flawlessly to a series of set conditions and interactions on its own isn't magical, then seriously what the heck is? Religion was invented as an explanation for breathtaking phenomena we can all see, in the absence of scientific explanation. Now we have many of those explanations and there's nothing mysterious or divine about them. It's magic, if you want to call it that, but it isn't mystical or metaphysical. It's matter, energy, interdependence, equilibrium.

 

[Shaun__]

I have never understood how people could worship an all powerful god who they believe is the source of all good in the world. If it is all powerful then it would also be the source of all evil as well. All powerful is all powerful after all.

 

[Red7227]

I too was raised Catholic, which is a 70% sure-fire way to make sure your kids turn out Atheists :lol:

Yep, another ex catholic here.

I've always found the idea that people are made out of the billions of years old remains of exploded stars to be much more satisfying than being created from nothing by some kind of super jew in a toga.

 

[camstory]

I'm posting this, bc Jup once told me I spammed the forum with Tim Minchin's vids when I first came here. If he meant I post Minchin vids every time I see an opportunity, I guess I am guilty as charged. Also, I think this one fits very well with Jup's last post. If you listen, there is a bit of it that almost matches word for word part of what Jup just posted.

Science adjusts its beliefs based on what is observed.
Faith is the denial of what is observed so that belief can be preserved.
Tim Minchin, Storm.

 

[Jupiter551]

I'm posting this, bc Jup once told me I spammed the forum with Tim Minchin's vids when I first came here.

Wow there's nothing wrong with your memory, I said that once in passing, ages ago lol

 

[AudreyAnna]

Nordling - Cool! I appreciate your reply and reciprocate the respect. ^_^

LordMagellan - I should clarify that I'm actually rather easy-going and don't usually take religious mocking/jokes,etc. personally - usually though it does get personal..like sort of an attack on my supposed lack of intelligence for believing in God. People get downright aggressive sometimes!
Oh and "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ." << Excellent quote. Sadly, very accurate and true..all the way throughout history until the present day. It's painful for me to watch a TV show where a self-proclaimed "Christian" goes on a rampage sentencing people to Hell for their sins. I guess they missed the vital part that teaches us that none of us are perfect and that it's not our business to judge!!

Jupiter - Oh, you're totally right! I think ridicule was probably the wrong word for me to use in connection with atheism..perhaps "looking down upon/insulting" would have worked better.. sort of like " Well, you're an atheist? Ha! You must have horrible morals and be a bad person!"

Shaun_ - Well, if you're referring to Christian beliefs..it's not so black and white as that, as I'm sure you well know. I'm not going to go into explaining my view of it unless you'd like to hear my thoughts on it, then PM me if you'd like.


P.S. I just woke up with my face squished into my keyboard..not a very comfy sleep..lesson learned: when tired, shut down computer and go to bed! lol yikes! *_*

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I was brought up by atheists, I've been to church possibly once in my life and have not been christened. I am open to ideas/beliefs, and I do feel that when you go into really old churches there is a certain energy, but as I don't feel it in newer churches I don't see it as "god".

A lot of what religions say to me is just common sense. I mean "thou shall not kill" really? that had never occurred to me... But in more seriousness I think religion can do a great deal of good, for those who feel alone, they can hold onto their belief for support, a lot of the teachings are good things, although many contradict each other, religion has also brought people together, done all kinds of lovely things. Those who are bad will do bad things regardless, and the same with good people.

The sad thing with religion is that there are many who do it for the power, many very bad people who go into it to abuse it, and do it to be cruel to everyone else but because they're religious they claim to be right and a good person. I think these people would try and do this anyway, like some become bouncers or police officers for this reason. Currently in the Uk priests do not have very much power, so I think there is less of the same kinds of corruption, because those pursuing greed and power will not go about it by turning to religion. As AudreyAnna said, these things are not in the Christian religion and are just what those people make of it. I believe you should just by the individuals and not as a group.

Have anyone read the Narnia books? In the very last book, perhaps the last or second to last chapter there is a very good, kind young man (from the neighbouring kingdom to narnia) worships the God Tash (I think that's how it's spelt) who is an evil god. When the young man dies he meets Aslan and apologises because he realises that he's been worshipping the wrong god. Aslan answers that him and this other god are opposites, so when someone does something good in the name of the other god then in fact they do it in his name, and if someone does something bad by the name of Aslan they are actually supporting the other god so this young man had actually been worshipping Aslan his whole life. Now I know they are children's books, but I really agree with that. Whoever's name you're saying as you pray, it's your thoughts and actions that determine who you're supporting and who you are. (I guess in Christianity it would be on par to someone saying they worship God but because they're doing evil stuff they would actually be supporting the devil, see what I mean?)

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, I believe in God, but now the only time I go to church is when I'm back in PA (at my grandparents') on a weekend. I remember being a kid in church thinking "This is boring. I can't wait to get home so I can get my play clothes on." LOL. Play clothes is the phrase I used to describe regular casual clothes.*

I didn't like the way they would put people on the spot in church. Not everyone is comfortable coming up to the altar to be THE one who does the prayer. Something like that needs to be worked out PRIOR to the church service. Or just have someone volunteer to come up and do the prayer. Don't just pick someone out of the audience.

When she and my dad were still an unmarried couple in their early 20s, Mom had to step down as the church pianist when she became pregnant. The church said that having an unwed pregnant woman playing the piano was a bad image.....

 

[bob]

alan watts said "we are the nerve endings of god"....which has always struck me as the perfect blend of our religious need to give god a physical presence in the universe, and our spiritual hope that an acceptance of god will instill within us the strength of community.

the quote is my standard answer when people ask me that question about belief, and it seems to satisfy everyone....i mean really.....how can you breathe air on this planet and not believe in something outside yourself?

 

[lordmagellan]

One can be dazzled by the complexity, beauty, synchronicity of the natural universe without some metaphysical being surely? In a sense science IS magic. It's magic that always works - every single time. The only time it appears to not work is when we either don't understand or haven't seen a causal effect within it. There IS magic, it's real, if a universe of almost limitless size that works flawlessly to a series of set conditions and interactions on its own isn't magical, then seriously what the heck is? Religion was invented as an explanation for breathtaking phenomena we can all see, in the absence of scientific explanation. Now we have many of those explanations and there's nothing mysterious or divine about them. It's magic, if you want to call it that, but it isn't mystical or metaphysical. It's matter, energy, interdependence, equilibrium.

I agree with you, totally. I see no real reason to apply a mystical force to anything, but, as it is so dazzling and, to return to my point on creativity, so 'otherworldly,' it often seems that way. And it is the easy, perhaps lazy, solution. But as most of us seem to agree, it can be neither proven nor disproven. Yet. The same was said for neutrinos, and quarks, and the Higgs Boson.

[quote="TashaDutch']there were times when science meant saying the earth is flat
who are we to claim that everything that is 'proven' now is the truth?
loads of studies are proven 'wrong' or ' right' everyday... studies that our parents and grandparents stuck by because it was 'proven'
think of all the people who have done incredible things for our world, but at the moment they were doing it, everybody thought they were mentally disturbed..[/quote]
First, I have to disagree with the assumption about the flat earth. That was never science, it was lack of science; but it was based on a similar method: observation. Science all but proved the earth is round as far back as Ancient Greece, possibly earlier, according to studies. But the varying answers science provides is what makes it so fascinating. The fact that science, as a whole is willing to study and observe and conclude; and then to go back and change that conclusion if other evidence is found is what makes it so wonderful. I've heard many complain that science is full of "uppity know-it-alls" who think they have the one answer to everything. This is a gross misunderstanding of what science does.
I don't remember who said it, but I've always loved it: "Religion seeks answers to prove itself right. Science seeks answers to prove itself wrong."