Camming to be featured in Hot Girls Wanted: Turned On

[justjoinedtopost]

But what if one or more of those models blocked their state?

Still on tv either way, aren't they?

 

[Guy]

I find the whole they aren't allowed to exchange contact info to be incredibly silly. (Not to mention asuper stupid on the part of Streamate) I went to Twitter and typed in Alice Frost, found the one that I was 95% sure was her, went to Streammate found that she changed her SM name to AliceHole Frost. The whole thing took under a minute, and it's not like googling somebody name requires a degree or even high school diploma to figure out.

Also, I think it is unethical to review something you haven't seen.

I was addressing people on here who have already seen it.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I was addressing people on here who have already seen it.

Ok fair enough. I've just seen a number of 1 star reviews on Netflix by folks who clearly haven't seen the series, same thing of most the people who've complained on twitter.

 

[Booty_4U]

And why be outraged as a cam model about this, if you are quite ok with mass media doing it day in/day out, to numerous other people who aren't involved in sex work? Hypocritical if you ask me.

Uhhhh, maybe because sex workers are often stalked, raped, murdered, disowned from our families, kicked out of rental homes, denied bank accounts, etc etc while non-sex workers aren't?

 

[AmberCutie]

This idea may be anathema in a culture that has been taught that voyeurism is a virtue, but is there any reason they couldn't have blurred the faces/other sensitive info from the models that didn't know they were going to be shown?

And why be outraged as a cam model about this, if you are quite ok with mass media doing it day in/day out, to numerous other people who aren't involved in sex work? Hypocritical if you ask me.

I guess the difference is that we cam models only put our stuff out there into the adult market, whereas Netflix is a hugely mainstream market and exposes us to people that may not have found us ordinarily. And as noted above, sex industry workers get treated differently in a lot of situations that wouldn't affect an ordinary, non SW person. People not involved in sex work being shown on mainstream media is not such a breach of privacy/security/etc, in my opinion.

 

[Ambers Troll]

Actually the way they showed Tom demonstrating using a cam site was fine, they used a blur effect and it was for the most part intermittent glimpses of models, user names and so on. Only one that I noticed was a full face profile view of the model. That was the concerning one for that model, but perhaps she gave permission?

He was describing the search categories, and the shopping list nature of it. His description of the process was completely appropriate and necessary to the documentary, it couldn't really have been done in another way.

I have only seen parts of the rest of the series, so am only commenting on ep5.

 

[Gen]

I guess the difference is that we cam models only put our stuff out there into the adult market, whereas Netflix is a hugely mainstream market and exposes us to people that may not have found us ordinarily.

This is what I was trying to get at before, when I mentioned advertising on Twitter, Tumblr, or Periscope. Those aren't part of the adult market, I'd say they're firmly mainstream just like Netflix. Can we use this argument if we are willingly putting ourselves on mainstream channels in hopes of being noticed by people who wouldn't have found us otherwise?

Again, I think it was wrong to use that footage. But if they're taking footage from social media (versus cam sites) then I think that counters the point about us putting ourselves out there only on adult channels.

Someone did say they showed the SM homepage though I think? Which might be different then.

 

[Guy]

http://www.vocativ.com/423693/netflixs-hot-girls-wanted-accused-of-outing-sex-worker/

 

[SaffronBurke]

This idea may be anathema in a culture that has been taught that voyeurism is a virtue, but is there any reason they couldn't have blurred the faces/other sensitive info from the models that didn't know they were going to be shown?

Shit, you can get arrested on COPS with your face blurred. If they had blurred faces of people who were unknowingly used, I imagine people would be a little more ok with it.

It's still shitty to use people's social media without permission. While many people cite "fair usage" as a legal reason why permission isn't needed, getting permission is kind of a standard in journalism. Any time a tweet goes viral, if you scroll through the comments you'll see journalists asking permission to use the tweet in their articles, because they know that it's ethically questionable to use someone else's content without permission.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

This is what I was trying to get at before, when I mentioned advertising on Twitter, Tumblr, or Periscope. Those aren't part of the adult market, I'd say they're firmly mainstream just like Netflix. Can we use this argument if we are willingly putting ourselves on mainstream channels in hopes of being noticed by people who wouldn't have found us otherwise?

Again, I think it was wrong to use that footage. But if they're taking footage from social media (versus cam sites) then I think that counters the point about us putting ourselves out there only on adult channels.

Someone did say they showed the SM homepage though I think? Which might be different then.

Just to help clear things up. In episode 5, they did show the homepage of SM and I believe MFC. Now, this could potentially out somebody, and they probably should have been more careful. But every time you see something about camming in any media. They almost always show a screenshot of the home page of the camsites. Camgirlz did the same thing and Camgirlz certainly could have out the model who appeared on the homepage Chaturbate etc. If I'm not mistaken, cam websites also show their homepage in advertising, not all of which is on adult websites.

However, what cause the twitter storm isn't episode 5, it was episode 6. In episode 6, in the context of explaining what livestreaming and how popular it is among teenagers, something like 25% of all kids have live streamed, they showed an 8-second Periscope clip of two cute girls on Periscope. The showed a score of other periscope clips also. The girls weren't identified at all, much less as camgirls. I've been in EffyElizabeth room before and I didn't recognize her and certainly didn't occur to me that those two girls were sex workers, much less camgirl, I thought they were just teenagers on Periscope. I doubt the producers would have known either. Just like I doubt they knew about the occupations or privacy concerns of the hundreds of other people who's social media they showed. Just like all of us do when we share a media clip of somebody doing something silly or stupid. None of us ask the person permission or even asked ourselves will that cause harm to the person who's video I just helped go viral?

After SabreMae told EffyElizabeth, that she appeared in the series. Effy Ellizabeth started complaining on twitter that she had been outed, AFAIK Effy did so before she watched the series and people just accepted her word for it.

Since Episode 6 had nothing to do about the sex industry, I'm complete baffled why even if Efy orAutumn Kay's parents were watching the series, why they leap to the conclusion that their daughters were camgirls after seeing them on Periscope?. I'm obviously missing something, so if somebody who has actually watched the series could explain logically how that would occur, I'd really appreciate it.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Uhhhh, maybe because sex workers are often stalked, raped, murdered, disowned from our families, kicked out of rental homes, denied bank accounts, etc etc while non-sex workers aren't?

Not exclusive to sex workers (as far as stalking-raping-murdering-disowning are concerned). Welcome to life. Was your personal info put into this documentary? If it was, it will change my view considerably.

I am aware of the stigma (banking-rentals-jobs-etc). It's unfortunate, and I don't like it one bit. I would change it immediately if I could.

Uhhhh, now tell me; what exactly is an outpouring of internet outrage going to accomplish?

I guess the difference is that we cam models only put our stuff out there into the adult market, whereas Netflix is a hugely mainstream market and exposes us to people that may not have found us ordinarily. And as noted above, sex industry workers get treated differently in a lot of situations that wouldn't affect an ordinary, non SW person.

This is my view; the difference between mainstream/internet media is largely imaginary at this point. Too many other instances where I have seen bleedover between the two. They have merged. The perceived separation strikes me as an information age equivalent of the Maginot Line. False sense of security.

People not involved in sex work being shown on mainstream media is not such a breach of privacy/security/etc, in my opinion.

This is not accurate from my perspective. The media has been used to ruin countless lives, a lot of times intentionally. Their loss was not less simply because they were not sex workers.

I doubt the stigma will be affected much by this Netflix business, but that is just a guess. The security is a little different, not sure how that might shake out. One thing that bothers me is that cam models can get a lot of publicity, minus the bodyguards. Wondered for a while after seeing a couple of different models get stalked/doxxed if camsites should start putting a big warning/disclaimer in their agreements.

There is no avoiding this: you want to be successful, you probably need publicity. And that is not something that is going to be in your control once it gets started. Was she asking for it?
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment...ot-orlando-concert-critical/story?id=39774979
I understand this is a singer, not a typical sex worker. In my mind though, they are both entertainers. Not a whole lot of difference between the two (to me).

Hopefully I will see the documentary tonight. Just dying to now, want to judge for myself. If...IF...Netflix is pretty much doxxing models, that is way over the line. And if they are not, this will amount to a bunch of overreactionary howling akin to crying wolf.

http://www.vocativ.com/423693/netflixs-hot-girls-wanted-accused-of-outing-sex-worker/

dammit Guy. You are link dropping again.

"In an email to Vocativ, she additionally alleges that the show revealed her legal name. During one scene, her Facebook profile is displayed on-screen along with her real first name, which Vocativ verified with an image of her passport. Her last name wasn’t included in the show, but that was largely luck. “I’m very fortunate I took my last name off there sort of recently,” she said. Paige says she has had stalkers for years now and takes this leak of private information as a serious threat."

This further obfuscates the issue for me. Worried about dealing with longterm stalkers, and only "sort of recently" took her last name off Facebook?

Are we trying to shelter sex workers here, or the incurably stupid?

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Just to help clear things up. In episode 5, they did show the homepage of SM and I believe MFC. Now, this could potentially out somebody, and they probably should have been more careful. But every time you see something about camming in any media. They almost always show a screenshot of the home page of the camsites. Camgirlz did the same thing and Camgirlz certainly could have out the model who appeared on the homepage Chaturbate etc. If I'm not mistaken, cam websites also show their homepage in advertising, not all of which is on adult websites.

However, what cause the twitter storm isn't episode 5, it was episode 6. In episode 6, in the context of explaining what livestreaming and how popular it is among teenagers, something like 25% of all kids have live streamed, they showed an 8-second Periscope clip of two cute girls on Periscope. The showed a score of other periscope clips also. The girls weren't identified at all, much less as camgirls. I've been in EffyElizabeth room before and I didn't recognize her and certainly didn't occur to me that those two girls were sex workers, much less camgirl, I thought they were just teenagers on Periscope. I doubt the producers would have known either. Just like I doubt they knew about the occupations or privacy concerns of the hundreds of other people who's social media they showed. Just like all of us do when we share a media clip of somebody doing something silly or stupid. None of us ask the person permission or even asked ourselves will that cause harm to the person who's video I just helped go viral?

After SabreMae told EffyElizabeth, that she appeared in the series. Effy Ellizabeth started complaining on twitter that she had been outed, AFAIK Effy did so before she watched the series and people just accepted her word for it.

Since Episode 6 had nothing to do about the sex industry, I'm complete baffled why even if Efy orAutumn Kay's parents were watching the series, why they leap to the conclusion that their daughters were camgirls after seeing them on Periscope?. I'm obviously missing something, so if somebody who has actually watched the series could explain logically how that would occur, I'd really appreciate it.

Which episode is the alleged FB outing?

 

[Booty_4U]

Not exclusive to sex workers (as far as stalking-raping-murdering-disowning are concerned). Welcome to life. Was your personal info put into this documentary? If it was, it will change my view considerably.

I am aware of the stigma (banking-rentals-jobs-etc). It's unfortunate, and I don't like it one bit. I would change it immediately if I could.

Uhhhh, now tell me; what exactly is an outpouring of internet outrage going to accomplish?

Sex workers are targeted because we are sex workers. A random Walmart cashier being on a documentary or whatever, will not likely be attempting to hide their real name because they're afraid of what people will do to them if they find out that they're a Walmart cashier. And besides that, "Welcome to life", really? How insensitive can you be??
The "outpouring of internet outrage" will hopefully reach Netflix/the people who made the series, and hopefully they'll do better in any future documentaries. I don't want to speak for any of the girls who appeared in the series without their consent, but if it was me I'd hope Netflix would decide to pull the series or at least blur out my face/info if they continue to peddle it.

If...IF...Netflix is pretty much doxxing models, that is way over theding this: you want to be successful, you probably need publicity. And that is not something that is going to be in your control once it gets started. Was she asking for it?
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment...ot-orlando-concert-critical/story?id=39774979
I understand this is a singer, not a typical sex worker. In my mind though, they are both entertainers. Not a whole lot of difference between the two (to me).
line. And if they are not, this will amount to a bunch of overreactionary howling akin to crying wolf.

Many models have been super successful without "publicity" that they didn't ask for. And not everyone who is a model, wants to be super successful. I personally enjoy living a "normal" life and have zero desire to become "successful".
Maybe all entertainers worry about mentally ill "fans", but unlike sex workers, people care if an up and coming singer or actor is targeted, vs a sex worker. If an actor is attacked and goes to the cops, the cops are more likely to help them and not victim blame them. If a musician is attacked, it makes the news. When sex workers are stalked and killed, people just shrug and say shit like "don't be a sex worker then".

dammit Guy. You are link dropping again.

"In an email to Vocativ, she additionally alleges that the show revealed her legal name. During one scene, her Facebook profile is displayed on-screen along with her real first name, which Vocativ verified with an image of her passport. Her last name wasn’t included in the show, but that was largely luck. “I’m very fortunate I took my last name off there sort of recently,” she said. Paige says she has had stalkers for years now and takes this leak of private information as a serious threat."

This further obfuscates the issue for me. Worried about dealing with longterm stalkers, and only "sort of recently" took her last name off Facebook?

Are we trying to shelter sex workers here, or the incurably stupid?

That sounds an awful lot like victim blaming to me...
And it's a little late for "sheltering" any one, considering the model's images/info are already there on Netflix

 

[CharlieCharma]

What pissed me off is in the episode about the dude who represented porn stars they show a girl's facebook. Not her work one, her personal one. That was just, wtf. My bf was sitting next to me watching it and even he immediately goes, "Wait, they shouldn't have done that."

Also, all the cutaways to upset emotions. I understand drama sells, but it just felt fake and forced.

Gia what's her face also said they were supposed to take her out of the episode altogether, but then they didn't. That's pretty fucked up.

Edit: @justjoinedtopost , just saw you were asking which episode. The third or fourth I believe.

 

[paige_orion]

I am aware of the stigma (banking-rentals-jobs-etc). It's unfortunate, and I don't like it one bit. I would change it immediately if I could.

Uhhhh, now tell me; what exactly is an outpouring of internet outrage going to accomplish?

It might be a bit of a strange concept, but in my experience, unacceptable behavior doesn't change until the wrong-parties are forced to confront their behavior. When we see people treated unfairly, when we see companies behaving unethically, heck, when we see unjustifiable laws - staying silent is the exact wrong attitude if change is expected.

To dismiss outrage and imply that speaking up about it is pointless... That is so saddening to read. If you don't like the stigma and honestly wish it could change, wouldn't you be supportive of those receiving said stigma to raise their voice and demand to be heard? Wouldn't you recognize that staying silent is tantamount to support? By questioning those who are giving voice to their outrage... It honestly seems like you would rather have silence instead. By dismissing outrage as overreacting... It gives the impression that you don't mean what you say. If it bothered you at all, you wouldn't dismiss the girls who are upset as over-reaction. From all of your posts... I get the impression that you truly don't care. By saying welcome to life... There is no compassion or empathy there. Just a "sucks to be you" and a "you should have known better" kind of attitude, which is disheartening to see in someone who claims to want to end the stigma of the models whose company you enjoy.

I would much rather voice my outrage and see my fellow sex workers voice their outrage - especially since many of us are told that our voices don't matter or our opinions dismissed because of our profession - than stay passive and silent and accept unethical treatment as not worth fighting for. Things don't change in this world when you stay silent. I wish human beings were capable of recognize their own wrongs and changing them, but especially when profits are mixed in, that doesn't ever seem to happen. The only way to make people realize they are doing wrong is by saying something.

It is easy for someone to claim that others are overreacting or crying wolf with an issue that doesn't effect them. You don't have to worry about being treated poorly because you are a sex worker. You do not have to deal with any dehumanizing treatment. You don't have to worry about your family never speaking to you again or your children being taken away or being kicked out of your home with no place to go. The women who come into this world do so knowing the risks - but that doesn't mean they don't deserve to come out as a sex-worker by their own choice. They don't deserve to have that choice taken from them. It doesn't mean that they deserve to their voices silenced. It doesn't mean that they deserve to be used to profit someone else, without their permission. It doesn't mean that they deserve to be lied to. We know that there is the risk of being treated poorly by the rest of the world - but that doesn't mean we have to like it, or stay silent about it.

You don't have to agree with the outrage. That's okay. As a non-sex-worker, it is hard to truly grasp how it feels to be treated as less-than because of a job. And this is just one more instance in sex-workers being treated unfairly. And I think it's okay to be outraged by that. It's okay if you personally are not outraged or if you even enjoy the documentary. But I guess that I personally don't see how it's fair to dismiss someone else's outrage about a situation that affects them and the ones they care about, especially if it is a situation that you will never have to experience yourself.​

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Which episode is the alleged FB outing?

I'm really not sure. The only episode I saw Facebook shown is in episode 3 where the showed some baby and pictures of Bonnie when she was younger. I didn't see any names on the page (I went back and double checked) The only name shown was her stage name Bonnie Kinz (which she has changed.). But there maybe have been some other place, it sure would be helpful if people posted times and episodes.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

And besides that, "Welcome to life", really? How insensitive can you be??

Pretty damn insensitive.

The "outpouring of internet outrage" will hopefully reach Netflix/the people who made the series, and hopefully they'll do better in any future documentaries.

Maybe. I think more likely it will just draw more attention, up the ratings, encourage it. But who knows.

Many models have been super successful without "publicity" that they didn't ask for. And not everyone who is a model, wants to be super successful. I personally enjoy living a "normal" life and have zero desire to become "successful".

Wait...don't you advertise to a degree?

If your real name/address got put out there, that's pretty bad, and I wouldn't agree with that. If it is just promotional stuff or things you are broadcasting to the public, I don't feel a lot of sympathy. As I said before though, I would prefer the faces be blurred, depending on the circumstances.

Maybe all entertainers worry about mentally ill "fans", but unlike sex workers, people care if an up and coming singer or actor is targeted, vs a sex worker. If an actor is attacked and goes to the cops, the cops are more likely to help them and not victim blame them. If a musician is attacked, it makes the news. When sex workers are stalked and killed, people just shrug and say shit like "don't be a sex worker then".

Excuse me? "Mentally ill"? Or did you mean "violent"?

Excuse me? "Mentally ill"? Or did you mean "violent"?

Excuse me? "Mentally ill"? Or did you mean "violent"?

And you wail about a lack of sensitivity from this white male?

That sounds an awful lot like victim blaming to me...
And it's a little late for "sheltering" any one, considering the model's images/info are already there on Netflix

Here is the truth. You strike me as a trained victim. I don't want to take that away from you; it may be all you have.

What pissed me off is in the episode about the dude who represented porn stars they show a girl's facebook. Not her work one, her personal one. That was just, wtf. My bf was sitting next to me watching it and even he immediately goes, "Wait, they shouldn't have done that."

Edit: @justjoinedtopost , just saw you were asking which episode. The third or fourth I believe.

I am really of two minds about this part.

As far as Netflix, the FB thing, I really don't see why that needed to be included. Especially bothersome after seeing a whole heap of grief someone went through after their FB got out there. Not really sure why they felt the need to include that, unless they knew it would rile people up.

As far as the model, if real ID/stalkers are a concern, I would question the wisdom of even having one. Certainly one out there in the open, visible to all and chock full of pictures and personal info seems foolish.

It might be a bit of a strange concept, but in my experience, unacceptable behavior doesn't change until the wrong-parties are forced to confront their behavior. When we see people treated unfairly, when we see companies behaving unethically, heck, when we see unjustifiable laws - staying silent is the exact wrong attitude if change is expected.

To dismiss outrage and imply that speaking up about it is pointless... That is so saddening to read. If you don't like the stigma and honestly wish it could change, wouldn't you be supportive of those receiving said stigma to raise their voice and demand to be heard? Wouldn't you recognize that staying silent is tantamount to support? By questioning those who are giving voice to their outrage... It honestly seems like you would rather have silence instead. By dismissing outrage as overreacting... It gives the impression that you don't mean what you say. If it bothered you at all, you wouldn't dismiss the girls who are upset as over-reaction. From all of your posts... I get the impression that you truly don't care. By saying welcome to life... There is no compassion or empathy there. Just a "sucks to be you" and a "you should have known better" kind of attitude, which is disheartening to see in someone who claims to want to end the stigma of the models whose company you enjoy.

I would much rather voice my outrage and see my fellow sex workers voice their outrage - especially since many of us are told that our voices don't matter or our opinions dismissed because of our profession - than stay passive and silent and accept unethical treatment as not worth fighting for. Things don't change in this world when you stay silent. I wish human beings were capable of recognize their own wrongs and changing them, but especially when profits are mixed in, that doesn't ever seem to happen. The only way to make people realize they are doing wrong is by saying something.

It is easy for someone to claim that others are overreacting or crying wolf with an issue that doesn't effect them. You don't have to worry about being treated poorly because you are a sex worker. You do not have to deal with any dehumanizing treatment. You don't have to worry about your family never speaking to you again or your children being taken away or being kicked out of your home with no place to go. The women who come into this world do so knowing the risks - but that doesn't mean they don't deserve to come out as a sex-worker by their own choice. They don't deserve to have that choice taken from them. It doesn't mean that they deserve to their voices silenced. It doesn't mean that they deserve to be used to profit someone else, without their permission. It doesn't mean that they deserve to be lied to. We know that there is the risk of being treated poorly by the rest of the world - but that doesn't mean we have to like it, or stay silent about it.

You don't have to agree with the outrage. That's okay. As a non-sex-worker, it is hard to truly grasp how it feels to be treated as less-than because of a job. And this is just one more instance in sex-workers being treated unfairly. And I think it's okay to be outraged by that. It's okay if you personally are not outraged or if you even enjoy the documentary. But I guess that I personally don't see how it's fair to dismiss someone else's outrage about a situation that affects them and the ones they care about, especially if it is a situation that you will never have to experience yourself.

I can't really completely dismiss the outrage yet, because I haven't seen it. Conversely, I won't endorse the outrage either. At any rate, I am convinced I need to see this series now.
Dying to know if there is justifiable outrage here, or if it's just a bunch of idiots stampeding along because "SEX WORKERS!!!". The jury is still out.

Have you seen the documentary yet? And if so, which parts outrage you about it?


__________________________________________

Here is something I wonder...suppose you had to choose between one of the two situations:

• All stigma regarding sex work completely removed. Fair treatment across the board in society regarding business/banking/etc. Everyone knows who you are and what your profession is.
• You are free to keep your profession a secret from family/the general public. Stigma remains.

Leaving the stalking/raping/murdering out of this hypothetical, which bandwagon would you hop on?

 

[Lexi Emerson]

Here is something I wonder...suppose you had to choose between one of the two situations:

• All stigma regarding sex work completely removed. Fair treatment across the board in society regarding business/banking/etc. Everyone knows who you are and what your profession is.
• You are free to keep your profession a secret from family/the general public. Stigma remains.

Leaving the stalking/raping/murdering out of this hypothetical, which bandwagon would you hop on?

Both have their advantages.

The stigma sucks but honestly, a majority of us wouldn't do as well if it was a more accepted way to make money. The stigma makes the job much more lucrative.

But obviously being open about it and being able to confidently say, "I am a sex worker" without the millions of negative repercussions would be amazing. If I didn't get treated like a whore who is looking to steal everyone's boyfriends simply because I create porn, if my family were to still embrace me despite my job, and if I could openly tell new people that I am in the adult industry without them right away deciding I must be a bad person- that'd be great. But if all that were to happen, I may not even still have this job because lots of other people would and it wouldn't bring in as much money for me.

It's definitely hard. It's a double edged sword IMO.

 

[CharlieCharma]

I am really of two minds about this part.

As far as Netflix, the FB thing, I really don't see why that needed to be included. Especially bothersome after seeing a whole heap of grief someone went through after their FB got out there. Not really sure why they felt the need to include that, unless they knew it would rile people up.

As far as the model, if real ID/stalkers are a concern, I would question the wisdom of even having one. Certainly one out there in the open, visible to all and chock full of pictures and personal info seems foolish.


I can't really completely dismiss the outrage yet, because I haven't seen it. Conversely, I won't endorse the outrage either. At any rate, I am convinced I need to see this series now.
Dying to know if there is justifiable outrage here, or if it's just a bunch of idiots stampeding along because "SEX WORKERS!!!". The jury is still out.

The Facebook thing to me is outrage worthy. Facebook is the only way I can keep in touch with my dad easily since he lives in the middle east. It is the only way to stay in touch for a lot of people. I have nothing public. I don't add people idk irl. My picture isn't of my face or anything identifiable to me. But if someone posted a screen shot of what only my friends see? Yeah, id be screwed.

 

[Shia]

After SabreMae told EffyElizabeth, that she appeared in the series. Effy Ellizabeth started complaining on twitter that she had been outed, AFAIK Effy did so before she watched the series and people just accepted her word for it.

Since Episode 6 had nothing to do about the sex industry, I'm complete baffled why even if Efy orAutumn Kay's parents were watching the series, why they leap to the conclusion that their daughters were camgirls after seeing them on Periscope?. I'm obviously missing something, so if somebody who has actually watched the series could explain logically how that would occur, I'd really appreciate it.

That isn't accurate. Effy and Autumn did claim to be "outed" They simply stated that it wasn't ok for the producers to use ANY girls image in a porn documentary without their consent because for some it could be outing them.

 

[Booty_4U]

Both have their advantages.

The stigma sucks but honestly, a majority of us wouldn't do as well if it was a more accepted way to make money. The stigma makes the job much more lucrative.

But obviously being open about it and being able to confidently say, "I am a sex worker" without the millions of negative repercussions would be amazing. If I didn't get treated like a whore who is looking to steal everyone's boyfriends simply because I create porn, if my family were to still embrace me despite my job, and if I could openly tell new people that I am in the adult industry without them right away deciding I must be a bad person- that'd be great. But if all that were to happen, I may not even still have this job because lots of other people would and it wouldn't bring in as much money for me.

It's definitely hard. It's a double edged sword IMO.

In general I feel like the idea of "we make more money because of the stigma" is flawed because if it were true, FSSW would all be super rich! And yet tons of sex workers just barely make enough money to get by... From camgirls to FSSW, lots of us are not making as much money as the general public believes we all make. Some sex workers just aren't able to work more in order to make that extra few $$, and then some do work more but due to disability, systemic racism, etc they still barely make $$.

People tend to think that all mainstream porn actors get paid well too. When I was a SW noob trying to get into commercial porn, I felt that the prices the companies paid "new" models were offensively low. One company said they had to "get to know" if a model was going to "work out" or not. So basically, the idea was that if you kept working with them, they would eventually pay more and give you less shitty roles. But most SW don't stick around that long... so they had an essentially never ending supply of "fresh" talent, who they didn't have to pay "porn star" prices for... To me it's similar to how non-SW acting works. A-listers get paid more, "nobodies" get paid considerably less.

If sex work lost it's stigma overnight, I doubt droves of people with vanilla jobs would quit to become sex workers (and lots of the ones who did, would then end up quitting sex work because *gasp* it's actually WORK!). Currently I make less than someone with a minimum wage full time job, and yet I work more than 40 hours a week, plus I'm not getting any medical, paid leave, etc type benefits. I don't think loosing the stigma would hurt my earnings, because I offer custom fetish experiences that aren't found in mainstream porn. And with the technology changes, there will always be a demand for new content. I have tons of 320x240 videos from 2006-2009, but they're obsolete as fuck now!

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Made it through one full episode. Tedious, intellectually shallow garbage thus far imo. To each his own I guess.

Episode 4, somewhere between 27:00 and 28:00 a brief shot of FB page (Gia Page if I'm not mistaken). Had her clearly listed as Model/Actress at Hussie Models. I wonder if she let them on there, was it available for public viewing or what.


edit: also, "Nearly one third of all internet pornography clips contain physical acts of aggression. Women are the target of that aggression 94% of the time" (sometime around the 17:30 mark ep.4, give or take).

What qualifies as physical aggression? Is it consensual? Is the issue the portrayal of aggression, or the fact that it is available to minors (based on a snippet I saw of episode 3, where the young actress talks about viewing porn at a young age)? Where does this number come from? What qualifies as "internet pornography"? Are cam models giving themselves spanks included in this statistic?

 

[curvyredhead]

Also this episode with Alice and Approximate pissed me off about 14738274 times. Not even because of how they filmed it but because the whole thing was just insane. I think that Alice did way too many stupid things.

I loved the first episode and I feel like it's went downhill from there and each episode annoys me a little more for some reason.

Agreed with all of this.

I'm watching this episode now and I'm honestly tearing up over how honest, caring and respectful Alice was to do what she ended up doing.

Despite agreeing with being pissed off...I also got super emotional (in a personal way I am not used to when in comes to entertainment), esp towards the end. It was a little hard to watch.

 

[SuzySirenXO]

What qualifies as physical aggression? Is it consensual? Is the issue the portrayal of aggression, or the fact that it is available to minors (based on a snippet I saw of episode 3, where the young actress talks about viewing porn at a young age)? Where does this number come from? What qualifies as "internet pornography"? Are cam models giving themselves spanks included in this statistic?

IMO Physical aggression can totally be consensual. I don't think the real issue that they are pressing with that stat is if it has anything to do with the act(s) being consensual. I think it just stems from that whole idea of if you don't want certain things propagated and the ideas reinforced, why are we as a society consuming it. Problem for me personally is while I get the mindset of not wanting to perpetually reinforce a consumers mind that its alright to treat women like lesser beings with physical violence....I personally really enjoy consensual sexual roughness. So where do we draw the lines in the sand

. I think what some people have mentioned about this series being whorephobic and participating in slut shaming verrrrry possible. While I love that its showing some of the aspects of what sex work and life can be like, its also doing a great majority of painting it all in an ill light. While not everyday in this industry is puppy dogs and sunshine, it isn't the awful hole that they paint Bonnie going down or the gross situations like shown in the original "documentary."

 

[AudriTwo]

You don't have to agree with the outrage. That's okay. As a non-sex-worker, it is hard to truly grasp how it feels to be treated as less-than because of a job. And this is just one more instance in sex-workers being treated unfairly. And I think it's okay to be outraged by that. It's okay if you personally are not outraged or if you even enjoy the documentary. But I guess that I personally don't see how it's fair to dismiss someone else's outrage about a situation that affects them and the ones they care about, especially if it is a situation that you will never have to experience yourself.

This.

The lack of empathy from you guys is saddening. You are not even trying to understand where we are coming from too.

 

[AmberCutie]

This is what I was trying to get at before, when I mentioned advertising on Twitter, Tumblr, or Periscope. Those aren't part of the adult market, I'd say they're firmly mainstream just like Netflix. Can we use this argument if we are willingly putting ourselves on mainstream channels in hopes of being noticed by people who wouldn't have found us otherwise?

Again, I think it was wrong to use that footage. But if they're taking footage from social media (versus cam sites) then I think that counters the point about us putting ourselves out there only on adult channels.

Someone did say they showed the SM homepage though I think? Which might be different then.

I still believe there's at least a small difference between a platform like Netflix, that puts all the new stuff right on your main screen, and Twitter, where you'll only come across my posts if someone you already follow retweets me, or if you're searching for my stuff/adult content. Twitter doesn't tell you want to see, you pick it. Netflix tells you what's new and popular right now.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

IMO Physical aggression can totally be consensual. I don't think the real issue that they are pressing with that stat is if it has anything to do with the act(s) being consensual. I think it just stems from that whole idea of if you don't want certain things propagated and the ideas reinforced, why are we as a society consuming it. Problem for me personally is while I get the mindset of not wanting to perpetually reinforce a consumers mind that its alright to treat women like lesser beings with physical violence....I personally really enjoy consensual sexual roughness. So where do we draw the lines in the sand.

I think the consensual part plays right into what they are pressing, but that is just my interpretation so far.

Is it consensual when the ass whupper and the ass whupee both want it? Yep.
Is it consensual when they are ok sharing vids of it, or they are consenting to perform it for a company selling vids? Yep.
Is it consensual if a viewer wants to watch the vid? Yep.
Is it consensual if a minor wants to view this vid?

So where do we draw the line? Micromanaging adult producers? Severely curtailing the easy availability of internet porn? Severely curtail access to the internet for minors? Let things run their course and see how it all shakes out?

Are we consuming sexual physical aggression directed towards women? I know I have watched a few vids I liked, but they had scenes I didn't care for (slapping in the face for instance). I skip past it, if it's bad enough turn the vid off; the ideas didn't really propagate into my mind and get reinforced.

Don't know.

You don't have to agree with the outrage. That's okay. As a non-sex-worker, it is hard to truly grasp how it feels to be treated as less-than because of a job. And this is just one more instance in sex-workers being treated unfairly. And I think it's okay to be outraged by that. It's okay if you personally are not outraged or if you even enjoy the documentary. But I guess that I personally don't see how it's fair to dismiss someone else's outrage about a situation that affects them and the ones they care about, especially if it is a situation that you will never have to experience yourself.​

This.

The lack of empathy from you guys is saddening. You are not even trying to understand where we are coming from too.

Well, now Gia Page might have gotten screwed a little bit if she made a deal to back out, and they left her in it anyway. Her FB business I am not too sure about. I don't know if she shared that with them or what. There is some potential empathy from me there, though I doubt it will help her case much if it goes to court.

Just got done watching the episode with Periscope, Ep. 6. Effy Elizabeth and Autumn Kayy stuck out like sore thumbs in that little segment. You will never convince me they weren't hand selected. Models on the camsites that didn't know they were going to be in the documentary, yeah I would rather their faces be blurred. But those two walked right into that. Not really feeling much empathy for them, shit move on the part of the documentary makers notwithstanding.

Does anyone know who this model is that was mentioned in the Vocativ.com article?
"And at least one additional cam performer took to Twitter to express outrage that her image was featured in “Hot Girls Wanted,” during a scene when someone is shown browsing a cam site."

 

[AudriTwo]

Well, now Gia Page might have gotten screwed a little bit if she made a deal to back out, and they left her in it anyway. Her FB business I am not too sure about. I don't know if she shared that with them or what. There is some potential empathy from me there, though I doubt it will help her case much if it goes to court.

Just got done watching the episode with Periscope, Ep. 6. Effy Elizabeth and Autumn Kayy stuck out like sore thumbs in that little segment. You will never convince me they weren't hand selected. Models on the camsites that didn't know they were going to be in the documentary, yeah I would rather their faces be blurred. But those two walked right into that. Not really feeling much empathy for them, shit move on the part of the documentary makers notwithstanding.

Does anyone know who this model is that was mentioned in the Vocativ.com article?
"And at least one additional cam performer took to Twitter to express outrage that her image was featured in “Hot Girls Wanted,” during a scene when someone is shown browsing a cam site."

But can you emphasize why others are upset with the creators choices? That's what I'm saying the lack of empathy is coming from.

 

[Guy]

I still believe there's at least a small difference between a platform like Netflix, that puts all the new stuff right on your main screen, and Twitter, where you'll only come across my posts if someone you already follow retweets me, or if you're searching for my stuff/adult content. Twitter doesn't tell you want to see, you pick it. Netflix tells you what's new and popular right now.

It also should be noted that Netflix is a strictly vanilla streaming service.
People dont go on there to look for adult content.

 

[Booty_4U]

Does anyone know who this model is that was mentioned in the Vocativ.com article?
"And at least one additional cam performer took to Twitter to express outrage that her image was featured in “Hot Girls Wanted,” during a scene when someone is shown browsing a cam site."