Camgirls who scam

[kylexy]

I like buying custom photos/movies from cam girls & even though I've gotten some really nice stuff I've also been scammed a number of times and I haven't found people discussing this anywhere. Is this common or have I just been extremely unlucky? This has even happened with quite well known cam girls, which I find very strange.

It usually goes the same way. She is polite and everything is good until she's gotten the money, usually in the form of an Amazon gift card. Then she suddenly stops answering my mails and blocks me from the chat room as well as her Twitter, if I should ever write to her there.

As Amazon gift cards are non-refundable once used I'm pretty much screwed once this happens. I can't get my money back and I can't file a dispute or anything against the scammer.

Anyone else has experience with this kind of scams and/or have any tips to how to avoid it?

Thank you

 

[AmberCutie]

You know what I was thinking about while sipping my coffee this morning? I said to myself "you know, it's been too long since we had a scammer cam girl thread pop up. We should get one of those soon!" Then it's as if the ACF fairy answered my request, because here we are!

(There's a search box at the top of the page, I bet you'll find what you're looking for there.)

 

[kylexy]

Thank you for your answer, I'm glad to see that I don't seem to be the only one who has been scammed. These girls give bad rep to all camgirls, even the honest ones.

What I would like to discuss is how to "prevent" it from happening and why you think some cam girls pull scams? Sure there will always be dishonest people but when even "big" names do it I don't quite understand the motive. Instead of giving what was paid for and get a big group of returning customers you risk your whole career for a few bucks?

These things make me less and less eager to ever spend another dime.

 

[AmberCutie]

I was going to simply lock the thread and tell you to go post in the other threads, but sure, let's do this.

To avoid scams, spend enough time and attention and stick to small tips or private/groups until you get a feel for the model. This isn't fool proof, obviously, but if you spend time in a room and see other people interacting and getting content/shows from the model and see no complaints (in room or on her profile, etc) then give it a shot. Start with smaller purchases before dropping hundreds of dollars. If you're out a few bucks, brush it off, put the model on ignore, and find another room.

I'd imagine some girls scam because they can. If you can get paid for something without doing anything, why not? Not every cam girl cares if her reputation is tarnished and people talk shit about her. They don't care about "risking their whole career for a few bucks" because they don't take this job seriously. It's just an easy quick means to get paid.

The girls who have more visibility on the site (I'd say "popular" but I imagine people would be upset at me for it) have a reputation to uphold and may be less likely to scam a person for the hell of it. I'd suggest that the "big names" situations are mostly misunderstandings, or maybe even the member being a total assface and the model deciding it isn't worth it to continue the business transaction. (Tips are gifts, afterall, cam girls are not required to offer content.)

 

[kylexy]

I did indeed searched for a suitable thread but I did not find any that was appropriate to discuss scams in general. If anyone knows about such a thread that I have missed, I would appreciate if you could point me to it.

I have no problem if a model stops communicating before a business transaction has taken place. Sure, it's quite rude and unprofessional, but it doesn't cost anything else more than time. The situations I'm talking about is when we have discussed custom content in detail, agreed and money has been sent. If you as a cam girl after that stops answering mails and blocks the buyer from your channel(s) it's not a misunderstanding, it's a scam. And the buyer is quite powerless in that situation.

 

[AmberCutie]

The situations I'm talking about is when we have discussed custom content in detail, agreed and money has been sent. If you as a cam girl after that stops answering mails and blocks the buyer from your channel(s) it's not a misunderstanding, it's a scam.

I've heard of situations like this (see the assface comment I made above) in which there is a transaction and an agreement, then the member starts behaving very badly/creepy/mean and the girl decides to move on without fulfillment. In some of these situations, the girl will try to get the member's tokens refunded, in other cases they take the payment as a sort of asshole tax, if you will. And of course in other situations, it really is just a scam.

In past forum replies about this subject, the following have been the basic suggestions (paraphrased):

Contact the cam site if you have proof that the girl is scamming. They may or may not help you since tips are gifts, but it's worth a shot (MFC recently added a rule about girls upholding transaction agreements). Don't outright ask for a refund, though.
Don't buy expensive content from girls you don't already trust and know.
Stick to doing private/group shows if you're nervous about buying content.
Stick to more reputable models for your bigger purchases.
If it was just a few bucks, get over it and move on, learn from the experience.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I like buying custom photos/movies from cam girls & even though I've gotten some really nice stuff I've also been scammed a number of times and I haven't found people discussing this anywhere. Is this common or have I just been extremely unlucky? This has even happened with quite well known cam girls, which I find very strange.

It usually goes the same way. She is polite and everything is good until she's gotten the money, usually in the form of an Amazon gift card. Then she suddenly stops answering my mails and blocks me from the chat room as well as her Twitter, if I should ever write to her there.

As Amazon gift cards are non-refundable once used I'm pretty much screwed once this happens. I can't get my money back and I can't file a dispute or anything against the scammer.

Anyone else has experience with this kind of scams and/or have any tips to how to avoid it?

Thank you

If you are using tokens on MFC (no idea about Chaturbate or other sites), MFC support is often pretty good about getting a model to either deliver the product or give you a refund. No guarantee but it does happen, especially if the whole exchange is well documented via PMs and MFC emails. If you are using gift cards you are pretty much shit out of luck. I don't think there is much relationship between popularity/camscore and the likelihood that a camgirl won't deliver on promised content.

It is definitely good advice to only do this (especially if you are using gift cards) with models that you have known and tipped well over a fairly length period. If you are primarily interested in custom content, a couple of the adult videos sale sites offer a form of an escrow account, which is really what you are looking for. Many cam models also do business on these sites so you maybe better off getting your custom video via these site. I've never used them so I don't have a recommendation.

But fundamentally if you are using gift cards as form of currency than you really have no recourse, it is the danger of cutting out the middle man. Well I suppose if you are a lawyer and you are both in the US you could sue them.. Good luck luck with approach. :smuggrin

 

[Shaun__]

Being scammed is never about the money for me, it is about the abuse of the trust you put into someone you thought you knew. Sometimes I feel I should be called Captain Gullible, based on my history of judging people.

 

[Snowie1969]

Business is about taking risks.. and believe me when I say that 99,9% of the models who are camming are honest and hardworking ladies! However some models do know when you cut the middle man and make the most of it.. that is why most scams involve things like skypeshows and/ or amazoncards/ giftrocketcards etc.

Mind you that there are scamming customers too, who use skype and/ or giftrocket/ amazon/ paypall too. Generally stick to the normal payment methods of your chosen camsite and you should be safe!

 

[gingerhobbit]

...a sort of asshole tax, if you will.

If this was a thing, I know so many people who would go broke.

 

[kylexy]

Business is about taking risks.. and believe me when I say that 99,9% of the models who are camming are honest and hardworking ladies!

I must be extremely unlucky then, since right now I've waited 1½ months for sets from 4 different ladies (at least 2 of them would be considered among the "popular" ones), who was supposed to be done in a week. I think I've gotten every excause in the book, when they even bother to answer me.

But yeah I hear what you're saying, cut out the middle man and you're screwed. I'm starting to realize that. Don't trust anyone.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I must be extremely unlucky then, since right now I've waited 1½ months for sets from 4 different ladies (at least 2 of them would be considered among the "popular" ones), who was supposed to be done in a week. I think I've gotten every excause in the book, when they even bother to answer me.

But yeah I hear what you're saying, cut out the middle man and you're screwed. I'm starting to realize that. Don't trust anyone.

Oh 1.5 month isn't that long. I think a week is unrealistic. I've only had 3 custom videos done and that fastest was ~3 weeks and the longest was over 2 months.. Just yesterday I got a prize video (if I finish in top 100...) that I tipped for in March so that is 4 months.. In ideal world it would be nice if camgirls were like Amazon prime, but they aren't. Camgirl time is long running joke and unfortunately extends not just being a couple of hours late for showing up on cam but also delivering content in a timely.

 

[kylexy]

I have no problems with things taking time, and I also have full respect that things can come up that delays the set. But when they time after time promise that the set will be done "today" and then nothing happens, they don't get back to you to give you any status update or anything, then it gets quite frustrating. Specially when it happens several times.

 

[AlexisSexiest]

I like buying custom photos/movies from cam girls & even though I've gotten some really nice stuff I've also been scammed a number of times and I haven't found people discussing this anywhere. Is this common or have I just been extremely unlucky? This has even happened with quite well known cam girls, which I find very strange.

It usually goes the same way. She is polite and everything is good until she's gotten the money, usually in the form of an Amazon gift card. Then she suddenly stops answering my mails and blocks me from the chat room as well as her Twitter, if I should ever write to her there.

As Amazon gift cards are non-refundable once used I'm pretty much screwed once this happens. I can't get my money back and I can't file a dispute or anything against the scammer.

Anyone else has experience with this kind of scams and/or have any tips to how to avoid it?

Thank you

Im very new to this and am experiencing the same thing, plus my low cam score really does not help.

 

[kylexy]

Hi Alexis. In what way are you experiencing this?

 

[gingerhobbit]

Im very new to this and am experiencing the same thing, plus my low cam score really does not help.

Que?

 

[zippypinhead]

Most of the time, freelancers in other professions who create content on spec do so in an arrangement where a percentage of the agreed-upon price is paid up front, and the remainder is paid upon delivery of the content. Also, deadlines are set for completion, and written records are kept of the transaction. That way, expenses are covered, good will is kept, incentive to finish is present, and everyone is on the same page with their expectations.

So, my advice to anyone who doesn't want to get "scammed" by a cam model, and who doesn't want to have to become old friends with every model he wants to commission, is to treat it like the professional transaction that it is. Don't pay full price up front -- indeed, never pay more than half up front, and absolutely never pay more than you're willing to lose forever -- and arrange your terms before setting down any money, including a deadline that you both are aware of. If the model fails to deliver on her end, you're out a few tokens and a bit of content, but the model is out a few tokens, as well, plus further business from you.

 

[JoleneBrody]

Most of the time, freelancers in other professions who create content on spec do so in an arrangement where a percentage of the agreed-upon price is paid up front, and the remainder is paid upon delivery of the content. Also, deadlines are set for completion, and written records are kept of the transaction. That way, expenses are covered, good will is kept, incentive to finish is present, and everyone is on the same page with their expectations.

So, my advice to anyone who doesn't want to get "scammed" by a cam model, and who doesn't want to have to become old friends with every model he wants to commission, is to treat it like the professional transaction that it is. Don't pay full price up front -- indeed, never pay more than half up front, and absolutely never pay more than you're willing to lose forever -- and arrange your terms before setting down any money, including a deadline that you both are aware of. If the model fails to deliver on her end, you're out a few tokens and a bit of content, but the model is out a few tokens, as well, plus further business from you.

I'm fairly certain there are some clip sites that offer a escrow option for custom video requests. I can't recall who though, I think Extra Lunch Money may be one but there could be more.

Might be a good option for a fella who likes customs.

 

[Sansa]

I'm fairly certain there are some clip sites that offer a escrow option for custom video requests. I can't recall who though, I think Extra Lunch Money may be one but there could be more.

Might be a good option for a fella who likes customs.

Not sure about ELM but MyGirlFund has an escrow service.

 

[Gen]

ExtraLunchMoney does escrow!

 

[Teagan]

Personally I never do customs unless they are paid in full first. I have had people offer half and half or payment once it's done only but I don't take their business. Why? Cause there are a myriad of guys who screw over girls as well. Or will try to haggle the second payment thinking you will just send it for less money cause you already made it. Or will screw you in escrow on those sites (you have to send the video before guys can release the escrow.Many just don't.) Or will haggle the price if they promise to pay once it's done. Or never respond to you again after you did make it. As the model you are out the supplies for the clips and the hours and hours of work you put in to it when you could have spent that time elsewhere and not bought those supplies even. I get the guys side of things but girls get fucked over too so the only way to protect myself is payment up front.

 

[dilligaf0]

If you're afraid of getting screwed, don't order custom content. Buy pre-made videos.
Some of this is starting to sound like a hostage negotiation.

 

[TacoBelle]

Not sure about ELM but MyGirlFund has an escrow service.

I don't know much about MGF, but this was tweeted today:

 

[Teagan]

I don't know much about MGF, but this was tweeted today:

They constantly do this to girls all the time. They have so many reports of bans with keeping money it's ridiculous.

 

[Sansa]

They constantly do this to girls all the time. They have so many reports of bans with keeping money it's ridiculous.

Wow never mind then, avoid MGF if they're going to treat their models like that.

I've had other issues with the site and don't use it much, but yikes, if they're that ban happy, I might close my account.

 

[Teagan]

MGF also diligently works to send DMCAs to any girls who post badly about them or things they do. Blogs have been shut down over it, posts disappear from places, videos get removed, etc. They spend more time trying to keep their image clean than keeping the site running and girls paid. They have had payment issues for months now going on and even if you just speak on that they ban you. Their escrow is a joke as well since there were ways for guys to get around it and get the content then never pay. (This may have been fixed as I havent seen it come up lately but that may be cause every one who told them about it got banned for complaining.) And they always keep your money every time too. So yeah it's hard to find a lot of bad stuff on them before they take it down but definitely steer clear of there.

 

[KylieJacobs]

Personally I never do customs unless they are paid in full first. I have had people offer half and half or payment once it's done only but I don't take their business. Why? Cause there are a myriad of guys who screw over girls as well. Or will try to haggle the second payment thinking you will just send it for less money cause you already made it. Or will screw you in escrow on those sites (you have to send the video before guys can release the escrow.Many just don't.) Or will haggle the price if they promise to pay once it's done. Or never respond to you again after you did make it. As the model you are out the supplies for the clips and the hours and hours of work you put in to it when you could have spent that time elsewhere and not bought those supplies even. I get the guys side of things but girls get fucked over too so the only way to protect myself is payment up front.

I completely agree with Teagan.

When I first started on C4S, I asked for the payment after the custom was ready. Some people were great and paid right away! Others however, I either had to hound to get the payment, they tried to make deals afterwards, or they never paid at all. Now I only accept custom requests that are fully paid upfront. I let them know before they pay that the video will be ready X number of days (or weeks) after I receive their full payment. I often have them ready earlier, but if something unexpected happens where I can't meet the deadline, I always let them know.

On another note, at iwantclips has a new custom clip ordering system. If you don't get your custom by the deadline, you get your money back.

 

[kylexy]

Yeah it's a catch 22, and it's really sad when the buyers can't trust the sellers and the sellers can't trust the buyers. It would be nice if there were a system that protected both.

 

[zippypinhead]

I completely agree with Teagan.

When I first started on C4S, I asked for the payment after the custom was ready. Some people were great and paid right away! Others however, I either had to hound to get the payment, they tried to make deals afterwards, or they never paid at all. Now I only accept custom requests that are fully paid upfront. I let them know before they pay that the video will be ready X number of days (or weeks) after I receive their full payment. I often have them ready earlier, but if something unexpected happens where I can't meet the deadline, I always let them know.

On another note, at iwantclips has a new custom clip ordering system. If you don't get your custom by the deadline, you get your money back.

To each their own, I suppose. But Teagan's point really only holds up if we're talking about "all paid up front" vs "all paid on delivery". If you're getting paid half up front, you should be able to cover the costs of creating the content. That's actually the main point of getting half up front; it's an investment in the work by the customer, and an assurance that the content creator does not eat the cost of their efforts, should the deal fall through in the end, but it's also a means of insurance by the customer that all his money won't simply be taken without a return. Quid pro quo.

The problem with both "all paid up front" and "all paid on delivery" is that both of those scenarios puts the entire burden of trust -- and cost -- on just one party. If the other party fails on their end, then what recourse is there? Clearly, since we get threads like this on a monthly basis, and the standard advice for both models and their customers amounts to "don't trust anyone," there isn't really any recourse, which is, frankly, bullshit. Camland isn't some place where simple professional practices are unable to work. It's just a place where they are rarely applied.

And I'm not saying that half-and-half or escrow models are the best way. Honestly, there is no best way when it comes to speculative work. All speculation is is a series of promises made by both sides. And when you work for promises, there are no guarantees. But trust is necessary when doing business, and demanding that one side or the other take all the risks is not very trustworthy.

Anyway, that's all I have to say about it. Again, to each their own. We all have our ways of doing business, and what works for some may not work for others. All I know is that, as a customer, I'm not willing to give a person all my money until I've received what I'm paying for, and as a content creator, I wouldn't expect any differently form my clientele.

 

[Teagan]

I'm not willing to give a person all my money until I've received what I'm paying for

Never would I send a video and then get payment or the rest of payment. That makes no sense to me. You dont pay half/all after a skype show to a model. You dont get a premade video of hers for half up front or all on delivery. You dont get a show in her camroom for half and pay the rest/all after she is done. It doesnt work like that. You pay for the skype in full, you pay for the video in full, you pay for the cam show in full, and that should go for customs as well.

ALL of them are trust the model will come through. Yes models bail on skypes sometimes, they dont send a video, and they dont do the shows but that is far outweighed by the amount of guys who promise payment afterwards. How many times have we all seen or gotten the line "Do XYZ and then I tip BB?" 99% of the time they are lying of course. I get you guys do not see how many times models get this stuff but trust me in saying it is prevalent to say the least. Way more than the occasional post here about a guy not getting content.

So Im not buying supplies and spending the hours it takes to make a vid for only half the money with promises of more or not getting any until I make it just to have them be a liar as well. Yes the half they would pay up front sometimes covers the cost of supplies but not always and in addition I am still out the hours of work put in to making one. And with how many have such detailed scripts written out for us and even want their specific name used the stuff is unsellable to any one else to even try to recoup the cost. This is why so many girls refuse customs cause of the costs it really takes to make one behind the scenes. You see a 10 minute work of art sent to you but for us that stuff takes hours upon hours to make and edit and compress and upload, etc. Im just not willing to do all of that unless I know i'm paid for it for sure.