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But this is why I brought this discussion to the table in the first place. What is up with these models that insist on being so marginalized, when the general consensus is that it's really not the best thing to do?
My theory on that is that a) they are not very bright/ wise.
or b) Another theory I have, that might have some traction is that I know there are models who make their whole living off of mainly like 1-5 guys, who are really rich, and who buy everything they put out, tip like crazy, and basically "own" them. If I were a model that follows this whole business idea (a few actually do, and survive completely in their cam life off of like 3 main guys), and say 2 or 3 of my 3 huge whale payers were crazy, extremists, and they were giving me a ton of shit and pressure behind the scenes to publically support their causes. Then I could see that that might influence me, if I didn't have the confidence to realize that I could be real, and other men will come along. I don't know the percentage of models who are like that, and I hope that it is small. But I have personally heard of models who rank really highly basically because they have 1 or 2 guys who consistently spend like 2-6 grand a month on them. And they cater everything they do to those few guy(s). Because , presumably, they (those models) would not know what to do if those dudes dropped off. Idk. I've never done it that way. Too many eggs in one or two baskets.
Exactly, and I've drawn up a large handful of people that wouldn't still be around if we didn't have similar ideals of how the world should be.
This is literally the exact same as what I have found. If I had not opened up some aspects of who I truly am, and what I truly believe, I don't know that I would have such a strong and supportive base. It has enriched things a lot.
okay whoa. i dont care for the authoritarian/fascist. but conservatism doesn't = fascism. some people voted for trump (like my grandmother who escaped LITERAL FUCKING FASCISM by the Italian government in the 1940's) because they wanted to vote for their party. a lot of my family jumped off the trump train when he attacked democracy.
you know how you get people to change their mind? by showing them empathy.
Yes, yes yes! Do what ya gotta do to make the money! I talked briefly 1 day to a member who brought up politics, and it drove everyone out, and I logged out broke.
okay whoa. i dont care for the authoritarian/fascist. but conservatism doesn't = fascism. some people voted for trump (like my grandmother who escaped LITERAL FUCKING FASCISM by the Italian government in the 1940's) because they wanted to vote for their party. a lot of my family jumped off the trump train when he attacked democracy.
you know how you get people to change their mind? by showing them empathy.
I wasn't making any assumptions. I just said I don't show empathy towards fascism. bold of you to assume that I care about changing people's minds. Fascism has no place in Civilization and if they believe in fascism I will outcast them just like everyone else should. I don't give a fuck about empathy when it comes to fascism. They can change their minds if they don't want to be ostracized and outcasted. Otherwise they can go be fascists in the woods.
I wasn't making any assumptions. I just said I don't show empathy towards fascism. bold of you to assume that I care about changing people's minds. Fascism has no place in Civilization and if they believe in fascism I will outcast them just like everyone else should. I don't give a fuck about empathy when it comes to fascism. They can change their minds if they don't want to be ostracized and outcasted. Otherwise they can go be fascists in the woods.
you were though. i wasnt talking about fascism at all. i was talking about republicans. republicans dont = fascism. not all trump supporters are a monolith. like how not everyone on the left is a monolith.
you know what creates hate, bigotry, and ignorance? ostracizing and outcasting.
you were though. i wasnt talking about fascism at all. i was talking about republicans. republicans dont = fascism. not all trump supporters are a monolith. like how not everyone on the left is a monolith.
you know what creates hate, bigotry, and ignorance? ostracizing and outcasting.
You're way too involved in the way aspects of this conversation. I don't know or care what your problem is with people like me but I'm not going anywhere. You have a good evening. Our conversation is over.
I guess I'd judge anyone who didn't dump the trump-train after what happened between Nov and Jan 6 as someone I wouldn't want to be associated with in any form. I mean, I felt they were "stupid" before, because they somehow didn't realize he'd end up like this. But now that he has proven to be a complete enemy of the country as he showed in full blown public, there's no amount of respect I can hold for anyone still in favor of him.
I guess I'd judge anyone who didn't dump the trump-train after what happened between Nov and Jan 6 as someone I wouldn't want to be associated with in any form. I mean, I felt they were "stupid" before, because they somehow didn't realize he'd end up like this. But now that he has proven to be a complete enemy of the country as he showed in full blown public, there's no amount of respect I can hold for anyone still in favor of him.
I look at it as people who are stuck in a cult and brainwashed. I have family members who I would never think would fall for trump, but they did. My family is very catholic, so it was very interesting to see them fall for an adulter/obvious fraud. My dad voted for trump first time because he believed a "business man" could help america. He grew up in 1960s where it was the shit to be white and there was prosperity from the steal mills and limestone mining in western pa. So I understand why people bought into that. I do think if I wasnt there to challenge my father, he would be storming the capitol.
But people like my aunt, who literally believes God put trump in office has totally been brainwashed. All I can do is kinda mourn, but still be there hoping I get my cool aunt who I was super close with and could be open with her about everything back. I try to talk to her about issues, but she plays ignorant, because I think the truth is too painful.
That's the beautiful thing about having your cam room to be your space. If you want to bring up politics- that's your call. If you don't- also your call. Camming for me is an escape and politics is automatically going to turn off roughly half the viewers no matter what side based just on how the last election went plus tons of dudes who may agree but don't want to listen because they also want to escape the stress and drama. If your room is one of the more chatty, longer streaming types then it could definitely work for you. You do you. It raises my blood pressure and turns me off so then I get no productive work done. My personal cam streams are 2-3 hours so I don't have the time to recover if the room bombs. Just because I prefer to not discuss topics on cam that have a huge potential to piss or turn me (and members) off, doesn't make me any less real or apathetic.- I just choose a different time and place for it. It does make me more emotionally even keeled especially when already dealing with trolls and other asshats.
Just because I prefer to not discuss topics on cam that have a huge potential to piss or turn me (and members) off, doesn't make me any less real or apathetic.- I just choose a different time and place for it. It does make me more emotionally even keeled especially when already dealing with trolls and other asshats.
I am the one who used the terms "real and apathetic", however I also said several times that in live streams it's not a smart thing to do ... or to go overboard with.
Completely not what I meant, and out of context.
I am the one who used the terms "real and apathetic", however I also said several times that in live streams it's not a smart thing to do ... or to go overboard with.
Completely not what I meant, and out of context.
There was a streamate model who was heavily into trump (maga hat placed in the background along with I think a flag that said something is “for f*ggots” I can’t quite remember what it was exactly ) I haven’t seen her online in weeks now. It would be pretty sucky/unwise to have a politician especially a failed one wrapped into your cam identity like that because I’m sure people have a lot to say especially after the attempted coup when interacting in a super pro-trump chat room
There was a streamate model who was heavily into trump (maga hat placed in the background along with I think a flag that said something is “for f*ggots” I can’t quite remember what it was exactly ) I haven’t seen her online in weeks now. It would be pretty sucky/unwise to have a politician especially a failed one wrapped into your cam identity like that because I’m sure people have a lot to say especially after the attempted coup when interacting in a super pro-trump chat room
I know who you are talking about. She also had four leaf covers on her wall to that I believe was signal to 4chan.The f slur is commonly used on those type of boards. So I'm not surprised. But she removed it all eventually. Maybe before the election? Idr. I did see her online a couple weeks ago late at night. Hopefully she learned that's not the type of crowd you want to be getting attention from. Some people have found success being posted there or appealing to that type of audience, but very rarely it outcomes were positive. There are subset boards that are pretty favorable to doxxing. So it's kinda playing with fire.
I don't talk about politics at all. I do talk about political things occasionally though. Most "political" things I talk about regard futurology, blending of AI and humans, ethics, and other general things that are political, but aren't on the surface. However, after a cumshow the other day, we were all having "pillow talk" and someone asked me what I thought about vaccines. (It's insane to me that vaccines are political, but whatever) At first I wasn't going to get into it, but I changed my mind because this is something that I feel is pretty fucking important and I am privileged enough that I can risk losing members who may disagree with me. I went on a whole thing about how most people should get vaccinated if they can, talked about how science is less accessible than conspiracy theories and how the scientific community does itself a disservice by telling the latter group how dumb they are without better explaining the science, conceded that I understand why people in some countries may choose to not yet get vaccinated, and discussed how it's a company's right to refuse service to someone if they choose to not be vaccinated/prove that they test negative for COVID. It was a really good conversation, lost zero viewers and even got tips.
Like @AudriTwo , I empathize with people and am genuinely interested in them as a person. What an individual thinks means less to me than why they think that. Getting to the why is how you can understand them and get them to understand you. Sometimes all you can do is plant a seed. But sometimes you can plant the seed, water it, and then watch it grow. Regarding the above, had I just come right out and said something like "get vaccinated or you're stupid" (which is something that I've seen from some people), the conversation could've gone much differently and been toxic. I'm hoping that even if I didn't change any minds, I at least planted a seed and that people will respect my thoughts more because I respected theirs. I've lost people from COVID. I haven't seen my family and many friends in over a year because of it. I've had family members die and I couldn't go to their funeral. Of course I want everyone to just get vaccinated, but being negative about it isn't going to change minds and will more than likely push people even further away.
@sikayoujo I understand your anger and disgust towards certain groups of people. The thing is though, by not being empathetic, you're not going to change their minds. You say you don't care about changing minds, but if you don't care about that, then it seems like you are dehumanizing them, which is exactly what these groups do to others. To you, they are meaningless and a waste of space, but you aren't seeing the bigger picture. They have family, they have children, they have friends, they have an entire network of individuals who love them, learn from them, and are part of their lives. If you won't care for the individual, try to care for those who are impacted by said individual. Choosing to be open and empathetic softens people while ostracizing hardens and creates extremes. The former pulls people closer and humanizes, the latter pushes further away and dehumanizes. We are all humans, we all experience life differently, and we are all trying to be the best version of ourselves that we can be.
Lol I wasn’t spamming. I read everything it was just biased political jargon and no facts; basically spam.
As for cam models taking political stances; I think you should use caution. If you don’t know the facts, history, and past precedents on current situations; it’s best to keep quiet and not get involved in the hype until you have your facts straight and can make a concise statement.
IMO too many celebrities and comedians got involved in politics recently making this one of the most shameful past 2 elections in our current history. Why are their political opinions so important? Is it Because they have money and a platform? Isn’t that why trump was elected?
Lol I wasn’t spamming. I read everything it was just biased political jargon and no facts; basically spam.
As for cam models taking political stances; I think you should use caution. If you don’t know the facts, history, and past precedents on current situations; it’s best to keep quiet and not get involved in the hype until you have your facts straight and can make a concise statement.
IMO too many celebrities and comedians got involved in politics recently making this one of the most shameful past 2 elections in our current history. Why are their political opinions so important? Is it Because they have money and a platform? Isn’t that why trump was elected?
They are people too, and if they want to share their thoughts, opinions, or use their platform to become activists, just like the rest of us folk, I don't see the issue of them exercising their speech. Just because you have a larger audience or attention doesn't mean you have to be apolitical or can't share their opinion on issues. With social media we are able to see it more famous people sharing their views then 15 years ago. We only would hear about them in edited interviews.
That's the beautiful thing about having your cam room to be your space. If you want to bring up politics- that's your call. If you don't- also your call.
Exactly. Even though this is an inquiry on "WHY THIS?" the same can be said for any subject. It's just I inquired about this topic because it seems like a topic that is riskier than others. Based on what has been discussed so far, I would say this community confirms my assumptions about it. People are getting very up at arms just in this thread. Based on what I've seen in those chatrooms and mirroring what's been said here,
I can deduct that people like being polarized to a degree. Judging people is how we keep ourselves safe and how we keep the people that we feel are better for us in our circles. I know that's a very general thing to say, but camming is work, and a lot of people that are here and that I've been talking about have already been doing it for years. Most people come into this job with a strong personality, and of course changes are made over time to do what they feel is best for their profits.
I feel like people are forgetting that I started off this conversation saying that the Trump supporting models were actually making really good paper back when Trump was in office and Trump was running for re-election. I also said their tips dwindled down after the fascist got on that plane back to Florida.
This was more about building a whole personality of a cam show off of a politician than any kind of morality connected to it, because I also said the same thing about Joe Biden come out Harris even though I really didn't see any models out there for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris like I saw models out there for Trump.
I guess the conclusion is that they did what was profitable at the time, and now they have to find a new gimmick. It's just going to be hard to rebuild the reputation from this whole Trump supporting persona because they're still going to be the trolls and spammers from the other side that really don't have anything else to do but post nasty things in the chat. But even that will die down after a few weeks or months.
One of the Trump supporting models that I observed said she's been caming for 6 years, so she's probably seen it all, anyway. on one hand, it's definitely smart to profit off of how loose a lot of those Trump supporters were with their money. Buying all of those flags, buying the Trump merchandise and making a whole lot of Their own stuff, putting all of that energy into going to all of those rallies and posting all that stuff on the internet. She was making money off of people who had enough dedication to cause an insurrection. there was never a chat of hers that I didn't observe where people were tipping hundreds of tokens at a time just for talking about Trump. Of course she had to do something sexy every now and again, but she mostly spent her time in cam talking about politics naked and hugging her Trump pillow with the Trump flag in the background.
At the same time, for anyone who is paying attention to what that model was saying she would occasionally spout some very telling things. on my interpretation, she dropped a few hints that she didn't actually believe in Trump and she was just doing it for the money, and she didn't believe that he was going to win the election against Joe Biden, and she's been saying that since before Joe picked Kamala as VP.
I don't know if this model still has her Trump stuff, but based on her highly political Twitter she's probably picked a new gimmick by now. On her Twitter she supports Trump, other Trump supporting politicians, and people like Elon Musk (you know, the guy who ripped off sex workers back when he worked for PayPal). so whether she believes it or not, she's all about profiting off of people who believe in voting against their own interests because she practices support of people against her own interests. However, I also have reason to believe that she's very disingenuous and doing it for the money.
But it circles back around to your point. Do what makes that paper.
There was a streamate model who was heavily into trump (maga hat placed in the background along with I think a flag that said something is “for f*ggots” I can’t quite remember what it was exactly ) I haven’t seen her online in weeks now. It would be pretty sucky/unwise to have a politician especially a failed one wrapped into your cam identity like that because I’m sure people have a lot to say especially after the attempted coup when interacting in a super pro-trump chat room
@Brit I really don't care what people think of how I handle fascists and fascism, and it's your white privilege that you think you deserve a take on that.
Camming is a business and it's up to each cam model how they want to run their business/cam room. Do I think it's a good idea to sculpt your entire cam persona around your support of a politician? No. I don't even think mixing your business with politics, no matter what the business may be, is a good idea from a financial standpoint. But that's just me. And, I'm very outspoken about my political opinions in my personal life.
However, if someone else thinks it's a smart business move to make their stream super political, then that's all on them. Because in the end, another cam model talking about her political opinions in her cam room does not effect me at all. Also, I really don't care about how much money other models are making. Especially to the point where I'm lurking in the streams of people I clearly don't like or enjoy watching just to see how much money they are making. I'd much rather spend that time working on my own business or doing something I enjoy.
Camming is a business and it's up to each cam model how they want to run their business/cam room. Do I think it's a good idea to sculpt your entire cam persona around your support of a politician? No. I don't even think mixing your business with politics, no matter what the business may be, is a good idea from a financial standpoint. But that's just me. And, I'm very outspoken about my political opinions in my personal life.
However, if someone else thinks it's a smart business move to make their stream super political, then that's all on them. Because in the end, another cam model talking about her political opinions in her cam room does not effect me at all. Also, I really don't care about how much money other models are making. Especially to the point where I'm lurking in the streams of people I clearly don't like or enjoy watching just to see how much money they are making. I'd much rather spend that time working on my own business or doing something I enjoy.
I agree, the time spent watching models you don’t like, is wasted time. Build your brand in whatever way works best for you. Whether it includes politics or not...
I'm not sure if she was banned or not but slurs are not a bannable offense that I know of since I've seen models raceplay/slur stuff on Streamate unless the site jumps on the same tos as I think Manyvids has in the last few years. I DID once hear her talking about having sex when she was 12 (Like wtf like she can't get any worse ugh) so that for sure can get someone banned.
I agree, the time spent watching models you don’t like, is wasted time. Build your brand in whatever way works best for you. Whether it includes politics or not...
I get how it's easy to get caught up in watching stuff that you don't like and letting it feed into whatever negative emotions you may have. I'm guilty of this, too. Not when it comes to work, because I honestly really don't have any interest in seeing how other people conduct their business or knowing how much they make, but in my personal life (and funnily enough, with politics). I'd read forums, subreddits and Twitter pages dedicated to or about ideas that I'm totally opposed to. I'd watch YouTube political commentators like Kaitlin Bennett, Ben Shapiro and the ones like them. I'd even sometimes rage listen to Limbaugh and Hannity. Then, I realized that all I was doing was pissing myself off, and I'd remain in a bad mood and just kill any productivity I could have had for the rest of the day. And that's just in my personal life.
I'm guessing it's a bit different when you are rage watching people who are essentially working the same job as you, because not only would you be getting mad over what they are saying, but also the thought of "why are they making money?!" especially if you're not doing super well, would probably be at the back of your mind. Not saying this is how OP is thinking, but I've seen cam models who will watch other streams and then get mad and jealous because they don't think that streamer deserves the money and views, then they'll go on forums and take to Twitter hating on the other girl. It's just so unproductive and a waste of time and energy, which ends up translating into less money for the person complaining.
I've been taking a step back from actively reading and watching opinions that I know will annoy me, and it's honestly made a huge difference with my mental wellbeing. Keep your entertainment fun and... entertaining, y'know? If a cam girl absolutely has to watch other model's streams (because they genuinely find it entertaining) then stick to watching (and tipping) people you enjoy.
I get how it's easy to get caught up in watching stuff that you don't like and letting it feed into whatever negative emotions you may have. I'm guilty of this, too. Not when it comes to work, because I honestly really don't have any interest in seeing how other people conduct their business or knowing how much they make, but in my personal life (and funnily enough, with politics). I'd read forums, subreddits and Twitter pages dedicated to or about ideas that I'm totally opposed to. I'd watch YouTube political commentators like Kaitlin Bennett, Ben Shapiro and the ones like them. I'd even sometimes rage listen to Limbaugh and Hannity. Then, I realized that all I was doing was pissing myself off, and I'd remain in a bad mood and just kill any productivity I could have had for the rest of the day. And that's just in my personal life.
I'm guessing it's a bit different when you are rage watching people who are essentially working the same job as you, because not only would you be getting mad over what they are saying, but also the thought of "why are they making money?!" especially if you're not doing super well, would probably be at the back of your mind. Not saying this is how OP is thinking, but I've seen cam models who will watch other streams and then get mad and jealous because they don't think that streamer deserves the money and views, then they'll go on forums and take to Twitter hating on the other girl. It's just so unproductive and a waste of time and energy, which ends up translating into less money for the person complaining.
I've been taking a step back from actively reading and watching opinions that I know will annoy me, and it's honestly made a huge difference with my mental wellbeing. Keep your entertainment fun and... entertaining, y'know? If a cam girl absolutely has to watch other model's streams (because they genuinely find it entertaining) then stick to watching (and tipping) people you enjoy.
I'd read forums, subreddits and Twitter pages dedicated to or about ideas that I'm totally opposed to. I'd watch YouTube political commentators like Kaitlin Bennett, Ben Shapiro and the ones like them. I'd even sometimes rage listen to Limbaugh and Hannity. Then, I realized that all I was doing was pissing myself off, and I'd remain in a bad mood and just kill any productivity I could have had for the rest of the day. And that's just in my personal life.
I just read the current events so I know what's going on and then getting on with life instead of being sucked in. After all this bullshit and drama (both sides quite frankly- I'm registered independent) I just focus on my family and local community which is where I can actually make a difference. There are a ton of families hurting right now. Big career politicians aren't the ones helping them now and I think more focus should be on helping those around us with compassion, love, and meeting basic needs. Decided to focus attention on filling the food pantries near me and domestic violence shelters as their needs have shot up drastically during covid. Instead of feeling pissy after wasting time reading angry news commenters, at least something is being done positively with that time and energy.
I'm very political on cam. Not talking about politics does not feel like an escape to me personally because when I don't talk about politics people think they can get away with dogwhistling, and then get surprised when I tell them to knock that shit off. Being open about my very liberal views prevents that from happening in the first place. Sometimes people try to argue, and my regs are the kinds of people who like opinionated women and it usually brings in more tips. This is obviously, not the norm and I accept that on the whole, in the long run, there may be more people who would rather I don't talk about politics but I have yet to see that play out and there's no way for me to measure the potential effects of what I didn't do, y'know? It's also very draining to keep my political opinions to myself while members may be telling me theirs.
I'm also a poli-sci/international relations major, so when I get political it's almost never in support of a particular candidate and more like critical discussions of different policy choices, potential effects, speculation, criticism of individual choices of different politicians, why I would support one over another. Sometimes people interact with their reasons too and we can actually have productive discussions. I think making it apparent that I am not blindly for or against one politician or another makes a little more palatable.
Also, on the topic of "should we alienate fascists?" I'm of the firm belief that social alienation is part of why we have fascists. Part of Trump's rise to power was partially from a shit ton of white dudes on the internet who didn't have any other identity to attach themselves to and could relate to the "silent majority" sentiments spouted by Trump (thank you Nixon for making that blueprint /s). Just ignoring people is part of why politics have become what they are today and it will just get worse the more that we ostracize people for their views without first challenging those views (I ban fascist trolls left and right, I'm not against deplatforming people, but I will argue first).
Because I genuinely believe there are (generally) two kinds of people who hold shitty political views: 1. Trolls/Bad actors that won't be swayed by argument because they're not actually saying what they believe, so we shouldn't waste our time with them but more often 2. People who don't realize that the information they're being fed is coming directly from bad actors who are taking advantage of them to further a social movement that is more harmful than they realize
(case in point: people who want lots of medical gatekeeping for trans people, and think that it's coming form a legitimate place of concern but without knowing that argument was originated by anti-trans writers who knew that the more difficult they could make it for people to transition the less trans people would come out and said as much in their books--not everyone is aware of that history, not everyone is intentionally trying to harm trans people, but it still actively helps the larger anti-trans movements).
For the second type, I think that encouraging them to defend their positions (not attacking them) and pointing out the flaws in their own logic can at the very least sew seeds of doubt that may have an effect later on down the line. People who are misinformed but not hateful will usually start to see some of the cracks in their arguments. However, usually, by the ends of these conversations I do end up banning them, but I don't see that as a loss. As someone who was in a similar position (raised conservative, very misinformed at points, and had to change my views a lot) I know there were a lot of arguments that I either didn't necessarily perceive myself as having lost, or arguments I observed other people having, which eventually added up to completely changing my political views over time.
And that's the other thing: arguing over politics is usually not about the person I'm arguing with. It's about the people who can see the argument, and see both sides of it, without necessarily being personally attached to it so they don't feel critiqued but the information is still getting through to them. When you're not actually the person engaged in an argument, you're less likely to dig your heels in because you don't really feel like you're the person who needs to defend themselves.
But I don't condemn people for not talking politics in their rooms--especially people that are the target of political attacks. As a white woman, most of the time these guys aren't coming into my room and telling me personally that they "hate my kind." I don't have to expend near the same amount of energy as minorities do trying to protect themselves (physically/emotionally) from a society that has people in it who literally want them dead. I have a level of privilege so I still have the spare energy to have political arguments. I would never tell a minority that they're responsible for changing the minds of their oppressors because that shouldn't have to deal with oppression in the first place.
This isn't to say that all people in my position are required to talk about politics, but because I'm in a position where I can, I do and I'd hope more people would but I don't think that it's my place to tell people what to do--especially when camming is only one part of a person's life. I don't know if nonpolitical cammodels are donating to political activist groups, going to protests, or volunteering to go knock-doors for local politicians. They could be putting their energies towards more effective political avenues, and camming is their break from that. I just don't know that so I don't judge.
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that is a bold bold move
