Is that an acknowledgement that you agree with what I said?
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Obama had personal business dealings and personal business relationships with which countries and which foreign leaders, exactly?
Which thing? You don't explain what you are talking about and we can't google it ourselves because they are almost no descriptive words in your reply. Can you tell us more about what Obama did? Or at least drop a link?
thank you. he is doing much better and has been working at a sister yard. sadly it's not getting the business it once did, and only a handful of employees. it was pretty scary because my father is epileptic and needs his health insurance to pay for his medication so he doesn't have seizures. he can't afford to pay the $120 monthly out of pocket, and his medicaid approval was taking longer than normal. i was sending him money. by the time he got the call to come work for the sister yard it was almost 3 months, and still wasn't approved. he is definitely lucky.
ugh. that's a real fucking shame with your bf's company. trickledown economics don't work. studies have found tax-breaks to the rich and companies don't benefit anybody but the rich and companies.
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Supply weapons to Saudi arabia is what Obama did, and other presidents have done. I thought I was quoting the post that said that.
Anyway are we really here to discuss every political issue. When does is stop. This has gone too far, I commented originally about the OP because was being racist and toxic. Then all hell broke loose when I said I was a republican and scared to say it because of all of the backlash and here we are. Mad at each other because a bunch of old rich men in suits can’t figure out how to govern without being corrupt.
I can relate to this extremely hard. It's actually one of the reasons I don't get into debates and just shut down when things get too challenging. The self doubt kicks in and I want to run.
Oh no, you're not tapping out already? Political debate is healthy and necessary and it this one probably won't stop until you stop making one word comments and shutting down healthy debate. Discussing what we think, believe or heard from this source or that is healthy. It is how we form ideas, cement our ideas, introduce new ideas and also verify ideas. That's why verified sources are sexy.
It's honestly disappointing how @Staceymarie cannot even back up her statements and has just been throwing out the typical responses most people have come to expect from most conservatives. Almost everything she has said, word for word, is something I've heard from conservative family members. They make outrageous claims, then backtrack or pivot or deflect when their statements are brought into question.
"China bad"
"But Obama"
Like cool, I'm glad you watch Fox News and believe everything you read on Facebook, I guess?
I would honestly welcome some sort of legitimate conversation with an educated Trump supporter who can actually defend their opinions outside of just using buzzwords, propaganda and emotions, but that clearly isn't happening here.
People challenged you on your false statements. You were unable to rise to the challenge, but refused to back down. That's why we are where we are now. It has nothing to do with you being a Republican and everything to do with your blatant propaganda which, again, has been pointed out multiple times and you have either ignored or just double downed on your original stances.
But you were the one who was saying that Trump wasn't selling out America. That's why the Saudi Arabia arms deal was brought up.
I can also relate. Political conversations are never easy or fun
I’ve been in here all day lol
Amber really knows how to run a forum! And I worked and now I have to go make dinner and do chores. I would love to help get to the bottom of this but that’s a long conversation my friendwhat statements? Which one specifically you’re lot being specific yourself. I was working all day long. I don’t have time to convince people who already have predispositions about republicans.
what statements specifically? It’s really sad how you’re mad about something I said but don’t even quote what I said.
I don’t have Facebook and Fox News and CNN is a joke but I watch news all day every day Iike to know what’s going on. But hey you’re having a lot of assumptions here good for you, really a progressive conversation we are having. Great stuff.
Ok, I googled it for you. Obama sold 115 billion worth of weapons to Saudi Arabia. Yeah. I think that sucks. I totally disagreed with this move in 2016. I hated it back then and almost forgot about it because of the last 4 years. I hate a lot of shit Obama did. I even wrote him a letter and said hey, why? on a few things back in 2010. It doesn't make what trump did right because someone else did the same thing. Like cheating on your partner, I mean I am not going to cheat on them because my last partner did. . . . right? He took what Obama did and said yeah, I agree, fuck Yemen x 4.
I hate the back and forth and never really getting answers. I am still waiting for a break down of some of the earlier false claims made in this thread.
edit - I really doubt that Obama would have made that deal after the murder of Khashoggi. Like seriously - I am waiting for what Biden does about this. It is awful and Trump definitely should've done something and not made an arms deal.
I hate the back and forth and never really getting answers. I am still waiting for a break down of some of the earlier false claims made in this thread.
edit - I really doubt that Obama would have made that deal after the murder of Khashoggi. Like seriously - I am waiting for what Biden does about this. It is awful and Trump definitely should've done something and not made an arms deal.
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Googling as you go in a discussion is not the best way to have one. Back to one of my original posts, it’s best to be as informed as possible when being super passionate about something. We are all ignorant to what we don’t know.
Gurl. I'm not sure if you're being purposely obtuse or what, but I made two posts calling out your specific statements.
https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/threads/cam-model-supporting-politicians.38472/page-3#post-1088044
https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/threads/cam-model-supporting-politicians.38472/page-4#post-1088213
Those statements. I'm not going to type all that out another time because you either didn't read it or just couldn't formulate a proper defense.
I'm not mad, just a bit disappointed that you clearly can't defend your own statements. I'd enjoy it if you could actually refute what I said in either of those posts. If you believe this strongly in something, surely you can defend it, right? But, I'm honestly not expecting any sort of proper response. This conversation is becoming circular and at this point it's like trying to discuss politics with a brick wall.
I blame my confidence in debates on my law studies classes and participating in mock trial competitions. I was one of the best pretend lawyers my high school had to offer, haha. But, I get how when someone is steadfastly sticking to a certain opinion it can make you question yourself, even when you're positive that they are wrong.
LOL you are not serious? I am not allowed to inform myself about an arms deal made in 2016 so I can add to the discussion?? Do you have hyperthymesia? Is this a joke? if it isn't it explains this entire thread.
My edit should have been one new post and I didn't finish it. A US resident and journalist was murdered in Saudi Arabia - not just murdered but tortured. His 4 kids, 2 are US citizens and are not allowed to leave Saudi Arabia. This is Like, a TOTALLY bad thing. And Trump made a 10 year arms deal with them instead of trying to get US citizens out of Saudi Arabia. Do you see why it's not but Obama did the same thing! No, when a country takes your passports and put you on house arrest - that is literally your country's JOB - to get you out. Not give them more weapons.
Not only that, but he allegedly bragged to Bob Woodward about protecting the Saudi leader.
Trump Bragged About 'Saving' Saudi Crown Prince's 'Ass' After Khashoggi Murder
The president helped a foreign autocrat escape meaningful consequence for his role in the murder of a Washington Post journalist
www.rollingstone.com
MarieElise
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Pretty sure on the Khashoggi murder Trump even got on Twitter defending the Saudi Prince, and trying to pass it off as one of his (the Prince's) operatives going too far. That's such ass kissing bullshit imo (on Trump's part). But this is what he did from the start, he said positive and admiring things about dictators. Then when called on it, he defended that. Pretty sure he even said "I like what he did with the Uncle". Referring to Jong Un, beheading his own uncle, and supposedly leaving the head laying around to frighten anyone else in his administration from any kind of further dissent.
This coming from a man who later turned on his own VP, and encouraged people to go after him ready to hang him or whatever it was. Trump has loyalty to no one, and cares about not a single person but himself. I don't understand why this isn't glaringly clear to every single American citizen at this point i.e. that he's a manipulator and a liar who does not give a shit about them. I bet he's sitting back laughing at all of these loyal supporters he has. Didn't he literally say, a few years ago (again I think on Twitter); "I could stand in the middle of the street and murder someone and my followers wouldn't care, that's how loyal they are". Maybe not those exact words, but something to that effect.
This coming from a man who later turned on his own VP, and encouraged people to go after him ready to hang him or whatever it was. Trump has loyalty to no one, and cares about not a single person but himself. I don't understand why this isn't glaringly clear to every single American citizen at this point i.e. that he's a manipulator and a liar who does not give a shit about them. I bet he's sitting back laughing at all of these loyal supporters he has. Didn't he literally say, a few years ago (again I think on Twitter); "I could stand in the middle of the street and murder someone and my followers wouldn't care, that's how loyal they are". Maybe not those exact words, but something to that effect.
"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters"
During the last few months, this quote just kept coming back to me. It is haunting how that mindset applied SO heavily to how he behaved through his term, worsening even as the months went by. All culminating in that speech on Jan 6th that was just outright inciting an attack.
That's kind of the sentiment I was trying to convey in my earlier post about it. Like, at one point I could see why he had voters, and ultimately yes I can see why he won in 2016, but eventually it was just so blatantly obvious that he was no good. So if folks aren't opening their eyes to it with the events of the last few months, I just.... can't understand. And I get everyones' posts about trying to empathize with those folks. I can see your points. These folks were brainwashed and I guess I do have some empathy, but that doesn't override my complete distaste for them, so that's where I'm at.
D
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I hope this thread stays civilized so it doesn't have to be shut down. It has given me a lot to think about.
I'm talking about the whole world here not only the USA.
When an argument becomes a fight the rules change. It is not about the content anymore but about attack and defense. That is a pain because I think much can be learned from listening especially listening to other opinions than your own (or music ). It might change your opinion or confirm it both of which is a good thing. If you talk all the time you're not able to listen and the only thing you learn is how to talk.
I think the existence of only two mayor political parties contributes to that problem. Sometimes in an argument or a fight you need a third opinion to expand your horizon and to look at yourself to reevaluate your viewpoints. Maybe you have done or said things only to hurt your opponent? Do you really want this to be your goal? I have been guilty of this many times. It avoids any kind of compromise. But compromise is one of the foundations of democracy or any kind of togetherness.
If this fighting process becomes a part of your live you become a hater. And the person you hurt and hate the most is yourself because you put yourself into a cage not able to connect to the diversity of life.
Compromise has to be an adventure again.
You give a little and you get a lot. (J.Lo should make a song out of this )
I'm talking about the whole world here not only the USA.
When an argument becomes a fight the rules change. It is not about the content anymore but about attack and defense. That is a pain because I think much can be learned from listening especially listening to other opinions than your own (or music
). It might change your opinion or confirm it both of which is a good thing. If you talk all the time you're not able to listen and the only thing you learn is how to talk.I think the existence of only two mayor political parties contributes to that problem. Sometimes in an argument or a fight you need a third opinion to expand your horizon and to look at yourself to reevaluate your viewpoints. Maybe you have done or said things only to hurt your opponent? Do you really want this to be your goal? I have been guilty of this many times. It avoids any kind of compromise. But compromise is one of the foundations of democracy or any kind of togetherness.
If this fighting process becomes a part of your live you become a hater. And the person you hurt and hate the most is yourself because you put yourself into a cage not able to connect to the diversity of life.
Compromise has to be an adventure again.
You give a little and you get a lot. (J.Lo should make a song out of this
)
While you didn't outright say you were a Trump supporter, you said you were a republican and then wrote a lot of stuff supporting Trump.
I never twisted or turned your words. Everything I wrote has to do with what you said. You said that people should do research and I have 18 sources in my post to back up my words. You made some claims, I debated them.
We (humanity) have been transitioning from using fossil fuels to renewable sources for some time now, which I linked in my original post. A complete transition will take a long time, of course, but we're well on our way with even oil and gas companies getting on board.
I added the QAnon link because what you said about "being in the know" and "doing research" made me think of that group. It's something that they very often say. If you don't believe in what they believe, then that's great. Your whole post just struck a chord in me and I was trying to get ahead of whatever else you might write.
My entire family (except 1 cousin) are all republicans. Some of them are more moderate, others are more extreme. I love all of them and try to respect their views even if all of them don't respect mine. I would never dismiss someone just because they have different beliefs than I do. I will, however, try to engage in discussion where we can both hopefully learn something, if not from each other then about ourselves. If you aren't interested in countering my claims with sources of your own, then that's completely fine. I wasn't and am not attacking you. I care about you because you are a person and I believe that each person has value. I am and was simply challenging your views. I suppose I could and should be more warm in my approach since text often feels cold (especially when there's a disagreement), which automatically makes people feel put off. I am sorry for that.
Vera
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Pre-Trump I was apolitical on my timeline. I've always been highly politically active in my personal life, volunteered for Food Not Bombs, have been a card-carrying DSA member for years, etc. but tried to avoid talking about it excessively on my work account.
Since all the shit has gone down over the past several years, I've become more outspoken. My feed is mostly work related but I am open about being a leftist and will post about issues periodically. I'll also signal boost when something appalling happens, e.g. the George Floyd and Breonna Taylor incidents. I cannot stay silent all the time in good conscience. I don't particularly care if I drive away people who disagree with me, and I've found quite a few of my longtime patrons share my viewpoints. I do agree that constant tweeting about politics is bad branding and if you want to be involved on that level, it's preferable to have an alt account for that purpose.
I think Twitter creates a situation where people feel like they have to weigh in on ALL the issues ALL the time. I try to avoid that impulse. Twitter isn't the best place to do activism unless you are a legitimate organizer. It can be a useful platform for awareness and crowdfunding, but there's a balance. If you hold strong political views I feel it is more important to focus your efforts IRL/donate to causes you care about than just retweet and call it a day. Sure, it feels nice to retweet but you need to follow it up with activism in meatspace, too. (Provided you are able. If you aren't, that's another story entirely and retweet away if it's on your conscience to do so.)
TLDR: there's a balance.
Oop. I'm catching up on this thread and yikes. I encourage people to consume their news from a variety of credible sources. If you want to avoid pundits, keep to the Associated Press and C-Span. The internet is FULL of misinformation. Objective truth exists and you won't find it in Facebook groups, QAnon forums, or other meme-based media. I particularly enjoy Bellingcat's open-source intelligence projects. They do some incredible journalism.
I also cringe when I see people deflect to China. China has its problems, but it tends to get used as a way to change the conversation from issues at home. Bleating about China takes no effort or exertion. Making substantive change does.
Since all the shit has gone down over the past several years, I've become more outspoken. My feed is mostly work related but I am open about being a leftist and will post about issues periodically. I'll also signal boost when something appalling happens, e.g. the George Floyd and Breonna Taylor incidents. I cannot stay silent all the time in good conscience. I don't particularly care if I drive away people who disagree with me, and I've found quite a few of my longtime patrons share my viewpoints. I do agree that constant tweeting about politics is bad branding and if you want to be involved on that level, it's preferable to have an alt account for that purpose.
I think Twitter creates a situation where people feel like they have to weigh in on ALL the issues ALL the time. I try to avoid that impulse. Twitter isn't the best place to do activism unless you are a legitimate organizer. It can be a useful platform for awareness and crowdfunding, but there's a balance. If you hold strong political views I feel it is more important to focus your efforts IRL/donate to causes you care about than just retweet and call it a day. Sure, it feels nice to retweet but you need to follow it up with activism in meatspace, too. (Provided you are able. If you aren't, that's another story entirely and retweet away if it's on your conscience to do so.)
TLDR: there's a balance.
Oop. I'm catching up on this thread and yikes. I encourage people to consume their news from a variety of credible sources. If you want to avoid pundits, keep to the Associated Press and C-Span. The internet is FULL of misinformation. Objective truth exists and you won't find it in Facebook groups, QAnon forums, or other meme-based media. I particularly enjoy Bellingcat's open-source intelligence projects. They do some incredible journalism.
I also cringe when I see people deflect to China. China has its problems, but it tends to get used as a way to change the conversation from issues at home. Bleating about China takes no effort or exertion. Making substantive change does.
LaceyRoyce
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I've avoided this thread because I'm not interested in the big ole debate that's been happening here BUT I wanna say that over the years ... I've come to the same point as Vera explains here. Overall I think people know where I lean. I used to probably be a bit more political on the timeline and in my chat than I am now. But I will state my support for things when I feel it would be morally shitty for me to say nothing. Sometimes I'll also my experiences with immigration specifically to immigration discussions because I feel like there is a lack of knowledge about the process that drives a lot of the fear people have concerning immigration issues.
An interesting model to watch years ago was CaringErin. When she started her first year or two were dedicated to being a political cam room. Everything was politics themed, she did shows that were centered around political debate.. she was a "politics cam channel" basically. Then when Trump got elected (i think she live streamed the election) she switched her entire brand entirely. I think she did well with both .. but chose to focus on her new brand because of what she wanted (rather than like, it not being successful)
I will say finding out some of my followers/tippers were HARDCORE trumpies has made it harder for me to really interact with them. I find myself avoiding shows with them, etc. In a couple cases blocking because of the sheer amount of hateful garbage they were spewing. The takeaways from that: Sharing our political leanings especially if they're extreme can have an affect.. even if we're not cam models. Members should be aware that if they decide to ..say turn their entire feed into a political feed .. it might be a bit much. And if I'm turned off from paying clients who are posting their crap, I am SURE that I lose clients when I post Black Lives Matter statements for example.
There's a point where I am aware that I am absolutely going to lose people and income for something and I am ok with that. But I think it's naïve not to realize that and to expect everyone not to make decisions about where they spend their money based on how they feel about your political leanings.
This forum had bad intentions from the beginning and it got so out of hand; and combative. If you watched the White House press briefing yesterday a lot of the issues I wrote about were addressed, so my thought process can’t be that far off. One topic was loss of jobs in the oil industry. It seems like this administration has some kind of plan, it wasn’t very clear but I’ll just wait and see what happens. The reason oil is hot topic right now is because the demand is so low. (Not because I have dry skin, who ever said that earlier lol 
)
Yes getting away from using oil would be great but the real problem they are working on is moving that oil. Anyway if we were having a real political discussion with fact checking peer reviewed articles are more appropriate and accurate. But this was never meant to be a political discussion. But this did prove my theory that it’s easier to be Democrat than it is to be republican these days because the Anti-trump tunnel vision movement was basically the culture for the past few years.
)Yes getting away from using oil would be great but the real problem they are working on is moving that oil. Anyway if we were having a real political discussion with fact checking peer reviewed articles are more appropriate and accurate. But this was never meant to be a political discussion. But this did prove my theory that it’s easier to be Democrat than it is to be republican these days because the Anti-trump tunnel vision movement was basically the culture for the past few years.
Vera
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This forum had bad intentions from the beginning and it got so out of hand; and combative. If you watched the White House press briefing yesterday a lot of the issues I wrote about were addressed, so my thought process can’t be that far off. One topic was loss of jobs in the oil industry. It seems like this administration has some kind of plan, it wasn’t very clear but I’ll just wait and see what happens. The reason oil is hot topic right now is because the demand is so low. (Not because I have dry skin, who ever said that earlier lol
Yes getting away from using oil would be great but the real problem they are working on is moving that oil. Anyway if we were having a real political discussion with fact checking peer reviewed articles are more appropriate and accurate. But this was never meant to be a political discussion. But this did prove my theory that it’s easier to be Democrat than it is to be republican these days because the Anti-trump tunnel vision movement was basically the culture for the past few years.
I'm sorry that you feel that way.
Oh dear I’m sorry!! I meant thread. This thread from the OP had bad intentions. She was talking about other models making less money based off of their political views. This forum is great, I found it before I became a cam model and it has proven helpful many times.
OK thanks, just wanted to clear that up.
I do agree that it was inevitable that there would be some turmoil (no pun intended) in this thread from the get-go. I let it play out just to see what people would dive into, and honestly so that some of us could get a little of it out of our systems since clearly we do try to avoid it in other social media or live cam rooms.
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In my prvt life, I am relatively active and even come from a pretty politically active family. I speak to some degree about social and political issues (esp more local issues in my city) on Twitter. Tho, I have never really "endorsed" a specific candidate. I have certain political figures I like and have spoken fondly of but don't think anyone is infallible. I have more so critical of candidates more than anything.
I am more than open to discussing politics with mutuals and have a couple of spaces I do this regularly.....and while I am not saying I would NEVER have a convo with fans regarding this, at the end of the day I don't want to spend my work hours doing nonwork, I spend enough time using politics as an excuse not to work.
Tho.....I'd be happy to discuss politics in a paid session or a pay-per-text session.....and in fact, have many times.
I am more than open to discussing politics with mutuals and have a couple of spaces I do this regularly.....and while I am not saying I would NEVER have a convo with fans regarding this, at the end of the day I don't want to spend my work hours doing nonwork, I spend enough time using politics as an excuse not to work.
Tho.....I'd be happy to discuss politics in a paid session or a pay-per-text session.....and in fact, have many times.
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