Another fake raffle, bored...

[JoleneBrody]

This is interesting.
I've always just thought of offering double tickets as giving a tad more that day to my friends and never really looked at it from the possible negative perspective. Though I guess it's pretty rare I do a raffle for longer than a single day. I DO however usually give 2x tickets for offline tips that happen before I log on that night, while still putting it towards the show later.

While I know this technically is starting it off with a noted "special sale" so it likely has a different effect, I would be curious to hear peoples thoughts on the deals being for offline tips.

Does it bother you if the multipliers are for offline tips?

And wouldn't it seem if a models was treating raffle tickets more like an extra reward possibility for participating in her show goals/videos/member club things that it would take it out of the 'lottery' catagory and out it a little more in the 'county fair entry ticket raffle' zone?

 

[SexySteph]

I'm guessing that many models don't know this, but lotteries/raffles are actually against the MFC code of conduct and illegal under both federal and I believe all 50 states laws.

Code of conduct
You agree that you will not post, or otherwise distribute or facilitate distribution of any Content that:

is illegal, unlawful, threatening, abusive, racist, inflammatory, harassing, defamatory, libelous, deceptive, fraudulent, invasive of another's privacy or publicity rights, tortious, or otherwise violates MFC's rules or policies;
infringes on any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright, right of publicity, or other proprietary right of any party;
constitutes unauthorized or unsolicited advertising, chain letters, any other form of unauthorized solicitation, or any form of lottery or gambling.

What is a Lottery?
Unlike a sweepstakes, a lottery is a promotional device by which items of value (prizes) are awarded to members of the public by chance,
but which requires some form of payment to participate. Lotteries are illegal, except when conducted by states and certain exempt
charitable organizations. If you believe you have received a solicitation in the guise of a sweepstakes which is an illegal lottery, you
should contact your local Post Office™ or state Attorney General’s consumer protection office.

http://about.usps.com/publications/pub546.pdf

The key elements to a lottery are prize, consideration, and chance. Now I suppose some of the raffle could be be possible in a grey area, but the vast majority where model offers a prize, e.g. a dinner, disneyland tickets, iPad with pictures, a skype date, and require the purchase of raffle tickets (consideration) and the drawing is conducting by chance are form of gambling and are illegal. States tend to guard their money making lotteries rather jealously and hate competition.

Doesn't giving free raffle tickets as a prize make it not technically a lottery anymore? Kind of like those potentially money winning games at mcdonald's and such that tout "no purchase necessary!" ?

This actually is super informative. I'll know in the future to put fine print on the graphic of a raffle that will go on longer than a night or two. It's interesting that DURING raffles no one says anything. I legit thought everyone would enjoy the sales, as I've never had anyone say otherwise. But I definitely can understand being bummed if someone one when you bought more expensive tickets, and they bought theirs on a sale.

I'm kinda curious because I've never heard a complaint either. And my raffle tickets always sell well whether they're on sale, regular price, going to the high tipper, etc. So I wonder if it's a loud minority that doesn't like it or the majority and few are complaining?

Last Edit:

And wouldn't it seem if a models was treating raffle tickets more like an extra reward possibility for participating in her show goals/videos/member club things that it would take it out of the 'lottery' catagory and out it a little more in the 'county fair entry ticket raffle' zone?

That too. ^^^^

 

[LilyEvans]

I'm guessing that many models don't know this, but lotteries/raffles are actually against the MFC code of conduct and illegal under both federal and I believe all 50 states laws.

Code of conduct
You agree that you will not post, or otherwise distribute or facilitate distribution of any Content that:

is illegal, unlawful, threatening, abusive, racist, inflammatory, harassing, defamatory, libelous, deceptive, fraudulent, invasive of another's privacy or publicity rights, tortious, or otherwise violates MFC's rules or policies;
infringes on any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright, right of publicity, or other proprietary right of any party;
constitutes unauthorized or unsolicited advertising, chain letters, any other form of unauthorized solicitation, or any form of lottery or gambling.

What is a Lottery?
Unlike a sweepstakes, a lottery is a promotional device by which items of value (prizes) are awarded to members of the public by chance,
but which requires some form of payment to participate. Lotteries are illegal, except when conducted by states and certain exempt
charitable organizations. If you believe you have received a solicitation in the guise of a sweepstakes which is an illegal lottery, you
should contact your local Post Office™ or state Attorney General’s consumer protection office.

http://about.usps.com/publications/pub546.pdf

The key elements to a lottery are prize, consideration, and chance. Now I suppose some of the raffle could be be possible in a grey area, but the vast majority where model offers a prize, e.g. a dinner, disneyland tickets, iPad with pictures, a skype date, and require the purchase of raffle tickets (consideration) and the drawing is conducting by chance are form of gambling and are illegal. States tend to guard their money making lotteries rather jealously and hate competition.

Doesn't giving free raffle tickets as a prize make it not technically a lottery anymore? Kind of like those potentially money winning games at mcdonald's and such that tout "no purchase necessary!" ?

Ahhh, so giving free raffle tickets makes it a sweepstakes? Interesting thought...

 

[Nordling]

I'm guessing that many models don't know this, but lotteries/raffles are actually against the MFC code of conduct and illegal under both federal and I believe all 50 states laws.

Code of conduct
You agree that you will not post, or otherwise distribute or facilitate distribution of any Content that:

is illegal, unlawful, threatening, abusive, racist, inflammatory, harassing, defamatory, libelous, deceptive, fraudulent, invasive of another's privacy or publicity rights, tortious, or otherwise violates MFC's rules or policies;
infringes on any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright, right of publicity, or other proprietary right of any party;
constitutes unauthorized or unsolicited advertising, chain letters, any other form of unauthorized solicitation, or any form of lottery or gambling.

What is a Lottery?
Unlike a sweepstakes, a lottery is a promotional device by which items of value (prizes) are awarded to members of the public by chance,
but which requires some form of payment to participate. Lotteries are illegal, except when conducted by states and certain exempt
charitable organizations. If you believe you have received a solicitation in the guise of a sweepstakes which is an illegal lottery, you
should contact your local Post Office™ or state Attorney General’s consumer protection office.

http://about.usps.com/publications/pub546.pdf

The key elements to a lottery are prize, consideration, and chance. Now I suppose some of the raffle could be be possible in a grey area, but the vast majority where model offers a prize, e.g. a dinner, disneyland tickets, iPad with pictures, a skype date, and require the purchase of raffle tickets (consideration) and the drawing is conducting by chance are form of gambling and are illegal. States tend to guard their money making lotteries rather jealously and hate competition.

Doesn't giving free raffle tickets as a prize make it not technically a lottery anymore? Kind of like those potentially money winning games at mcdonald's and such that tout "no purchase necessary!" ?

Off topic, but just wanted to mention...I REALLY loved your previous avatar. I thought it was the epitome of cool sexy.

Yeah, I would say a raffle where the tickets are free is not gambling, because there's no risk involved.

 

[SexySteph]

I'm guessing that many models don't know this, but lotteries/raffles are actually against the MFC code of conduct and illegal under both federal and I believe all 50 states laws.

Code of conduct
You agree that you will not post, or otherwise distribute or facilitate distribution of any Content that:

is illegal, unlawful, threatening, abusive, racist, inflammatory, harassing, defamatory, libelous, deceptive, fraudulent, invasive of another's privacy or publicity rights, tortious, or otherwise violates MFC's rules or policies;
infringes on any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright, right of publicity, or other proprietary right of any party;
constitutes unauthorized or unsolicited advertising, chain letters, any other form of unauthorized solicitation, or any form of lottery or gambling.

What is a Lottery?
Unlike a sweepstakes, a lottery is a promotional device by which items of value (prizes) are awarded to members of the public by chance,
but which requires some form of payment to participate. Lotteries are illegal, except when conducted by states and certain exempt
charitable organizations. If you believe you have received a solicitation in the guise of a sweepstakes which is an illegal lottery, you
should contact your local Post Office™ or state Attorney General’s consumer protection office.

http://about.usps.com/publications/pub546.pdf

The key elements to a lottery are prize, consideration, and chance. Now I suppose some of the raffle could be be possible in a grey area, but the vast majority where model offers a prize, e.g. a dinner, disneyland tickets, iPad with pictures, a skype date, and require the purchase of raffle tickets (consideration) and the drawing is conducting by chance are form of gambling and are illegal. States tend to guard their money making lotteries rather jealously and hate competition.

Doesn't giving free raffle tickets as a prize make it not technically a lottery anymore? Kind of like those potentially money winning games at mcdonald's and such that tout "no purchase necessary!" ?

Off topic, but just wanted to mention...I REALLY loved your previous avatar. I thought it was the epitome of cool sexy.

Yeah, I would say a raffle where the tickets are free is not gambling, because there's no risk involved.

Thank you!

Okay, now I'm just spitballing here, but MFC says tips are GIFTS. So, by that idea, wouldn't that mean that raffle tickets aren't purchased but instead are given in exchange for tips as a token of appreciation? Your tips are ACTUALLY for the countdown or to make the model smile, but you just happen to get a raffle ticket or a lot of raffle tickets in exchange? So it's a tipping bonus?

I guess what I'm asking is, would you ever tip for raffle tickets from a camgirl that you'd never tip otherwise?

 

[Leon_Omega]

Idk, on my raffles I always say the price may change depending on specials or they can be won in games. Camgirl raffles are not powerball.

Telling people up front, and also in the small print is the fairest way to do it. It helps prevent hurt feelings.

Yes, that changes the entire picture. Warning in advance that you may offer "specials" during the term of the raffle is perfectly legitimate, but to do it randomly with no warning is a bit sleazy. Exaggeration, but it's really no different than offering tickets for a certain price and then suddenly saying on the last day, "oh, btw, I'm giving all the unsold tickets to my friend "Ted."

Couldn't we say the same things about videos, though?
Would you be pissed and feel it was sleazy if you bought a girls video for 200 tokens and then the next day her videos were half off?
Should we keep things at the same price always, and if not where do we draw the line with this type of thing?

I personally wouldn't. If I want something now, I'll buy it now for the agreed-on price. It doesn't make sense to me to demand a refund if, somewhere down the line that price were to change.

To put it in perspective, I once bought in to a girl's club mostly because of the ability to buy (more of) her videos. She has since made all the videos available for anybody to buy but I honestly can't complain because I felt the original price was reasonable. Not just that, but I've been able to enjoy her videos for months and that enjoyment isn't lessened by the change. I'd feel the same about raffle tickets, if they go "on sale" later on, then it's my fault for blowing my tokeny load too early.

Hell, even with videos I've proven to be more along the lines of "ooh, that's a good deal, I'mma have me some of that." and then find out that I already had the videos in question and facepalming rather than going "WHAT?! The video is on sale now? I HATE THIS GIRL FOREVER."

Basically, my mistake (whether it was me misunderstanding, misreading or assuming something that wasn't true to begin with) should not be the model's cross to bear. Even if the rules are not entirely clear, I would still argue that it would be my responsibility to ask for clarification first. That's just common sense if you ask me :twocents-02cents:

 

[Leon_Omega]

Turning the cam off just before the drawing is pretty odd... I will say.

True, it's odd, but it's also a very poor way to do it if you are going to cheat. I can think of quite a few ways to do it without raising undue suspicion right off the top of my head.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Okay, now I'm just spitballing here, but MFC says tips are GIFTS. So, by that idea, wouldn't that mean that raffle tickets aren't purchased but instead are given in exchange for tips as a token of appreciation? Your tips are ACTUALLY for the countdown or to make the model smile, but you just happen to get a raffle ticket or a lot of raffle tickets in exchange? So it's a tipping bonus?

I guess what I'm asking is, would you ever tip for raffle tickets from a camgirl that you'd never tip otherwise?

I am sure that is what MFC;s lawyers would say. IANAL but I am pretty sure this would fall into the thousand of similar schemes that have been tried and shut down over the decades. Club WPT (world poker tour) has jumped through considerable legal hoops to operate as a sweepstakes and not a gambling sites. I know it took one of my staff members a month to comply with all of the rules to run a internet sweepstakes (like McDonalds) legally in 49 states in my old megacorp. This is in no small part because lotteries are really profitable, and people have gone to considerable lengths to try and run them publicly, while states constantly crack down on loopholes.

As a general rule if you are making money with raffle/similar scheme, it is probably illegal.

Yes, I have entered a raffle for a skype with a popular model who normally I wouldn't tip because there were few entries. I didn't win.

 

[Shaun__]

This is interesting.
I've always just thought of offering double tickets as giving a tad more that day to my friends and never really looked at it from the possible negative perspective. Though I guess it's pretty rare I do a raffle for longer than a single day. I DO however usually give 2x tickets for offline tips that happen before I log on that night, while still putting it towards the show later.

While I know this technically is starting it off with a noted "special sale" so it likely has a different effect, I would be curious to hear peoples thoughts on the deals being for offline tips.

Does it bother you if the multipliers are for offline tips?

And wouldn't it seem if a models was treating raffle tickets more like an extra reward possibility for participating in her show goals/videos/member club things that it would take it out of the 'lottery' catagory and out it a little more in the 'county fair entry ticket raffle' zone?

I do not mind models offering special deals if I know about them in advance, and decided to spend my tokens at a premium price by choice. It is a bit annoying if you buy tens or hundreds of tickets to see a model offering them at a steep discount the next day.

Also in order to be a 'county fair entry ticket raffle' zone thing you would have to offer one free ticket, with no purchase needed to every single person who wanted one even the guests and basics I think.

 

[krukstyle]

I find a lot of this discussion to be really interesting--as a member that has participated in many raffles, I never thought about ticket sales/deals making the raffle unfair. To me, such sales were just part of the ever-changing camming landscape--kind of like, as others have mentioned, how videos might suddenly go on some crazy sale. There are plenty of situations where if I really analyze/look back on it, I could've waited and tipped later to get a much better deal--but I never regret such occurrences because I am voluntarily paying for the privilege of not having to wait to tip, or watch a video, or grab up some raffle tickets. Personally (and I totally understand the opposing view), I think the fact that a model can randomly put stuff on sale with no explanation is actually a big part of the fun--obviously, cam models are running businesses and want to provide their customers with fair/legit services, but I hate to think of a cam model as like some department store where customers are coming back the next day like "wait, that went on sale? But I paid XXX yesterday. I demand satisfaction." For me, expecting THAT degree of accountability and "bend-over-backwardness" completely saps the fun out of the live and dynamic cam experience.

As far as raffles go, I've always considered them as fun contests to participate in, but not to take too seriously. Obviously, some raffles get crazily competitive, but like any form of gambling it's a game that the players can't ultimately control--and every once and a while a random dude with a single ticket will beat out the dude with heaps of tickets--so I think it's best to at least appreciate the random aspect of the game and use that to avoid getting butt hurt if things don't go your way.

Now with the discussion of the legality of such raffles, the previous discussion about adding layers and layers of fine print to each raffle becomes even more interesting to me. In my mind, the more crazy fine-print, stipulations, rules, and regulations that are stated upfront about a raffle--the more official, and potentially "illegal sounding" the raffle becomes.

Okay, now I'm just spitballing here, but MFC says tips are GIFTS. So, by that idea, wouldn't that mean that raffle tickets aren't purchased but instead are given in exchange for tips as a token of appreciation? Your tips are ACTUALLY for the countdown or to make the model smile, but you just happen to get a raffle ticket or a lot of raffle tickets in exchange? So it's a tipping bonus?

I guess what I'm asking is, would you ever tip for raffle tickets from a camgirl that you'd never tip otherwise?

As Steph illustrated here, MFC kind of dances in this grey area of ambiguity when it comes to what is actually occurring on their website. I think raffles can at least potentially fall into a similar grey area as Steph has described--but I think it starts to slip out of that area the more clearly what exactly the raffle is (specific rules, definitions, stipulations)--is defined in writing. I have no clue how much of a difference this would make legally, but the closer "camgirl raffles" come to "giant official lotteries" the more dangerous the situation seems.

 

[Fay_Galore]

I've said it before and I will say it again. Legally there's a lot of grey area in camland; lotteries, music while camming, images used on profiles, watching movies, music used in videos, generally offering content you don't own (playlists) and the entire concept of tokens for x product because tokens are a tip, a gift, not officially a form of transaction. and it's not really legally stable to expect/promise x product for x tokens.

So, I understand if someone would feel upset about paying full prize for a percentage to win something, while other might pay less for that exact same percentage. Totally legit.
But, if you're going down that road and you feel very strongly about it, you might want to reconsider the concept of tokens, I think the models on MFC made it into a transaction thing over time, while in concept it should have been nothing more than a way to tip for appreciation. I think that's why it comes off a bit shady (see above alinea)

When I first browsed around MFC I was actually shocked I saw girls offering videos and whatnot for tokens. I thought that would have been highly illegal. but, it's not really. it's a matter of perspective. you're not buying x for tokens, you're showing your appreciation by tipping, getting x in return. I just think over time the community might have shifted and we're seeing things differently than it was originally intended. (and MFC is obviously not going to restrict it, it's good money)

 

[Meoff_69]

This is a very interesting post, and raises a few questions that I've often wondered about, myself.

Speaking from my own experience with raffles, the vast majority that I've been involved with were run fairly, and were a lot of fun. However, there has been one recent time when I didn't have a lot of fun during a raffle, and it stirred up negative feelings. But looking back, those negative feelings were completely unwarranted. And honestly, it just boiled down to me, having a momentary lapse of maturity, and being a sore loser. Long story short....

A model, of whom I've been a long time regular, had a raffle. I didn't have a lot of tokens to spend on it, but bought as many tickets as I could. A lot of her other regulars participated, and there were new members that tipped for tickets, as well. One long time regular in particular had purchased a lot of tickets for this raffle, and ended up winning it. **Edit..this particular member had been on what I perceived at the time, as a lucky winning streak, pure and simple. There was nothing shady going on whatsoever**

When she pulled the ticket on cam, I made a snide remark, and left the room pretty abruptly. Yes, I let temporary immaturity get the best of me. About 10 minutes later, I felt pretty embarrassed for the way I behaved. My remark no doubtedly hurt the model's feelings, and I felt like an asshat....deservedly so! I'd suddenly devoloped a sense of "entitlement" and it bothered me, as I've always worked very hard in not becoming "that guy." What made things worse for me was that this regular has always been very cool, humble, and someone I consider a friend. I'd lost sight of the overall bigger picture of the raffle. That being...

*It was a fun way to support a model and friend of mine, who was trying to make her goals.
*I was still being entertained by the model, and tips for raffle tickets were counted against a countdown for a show.
*Winning was just the frosting. The cake, was hanging out with her and friends, having a good time and laughing it up.

As for everthing else brought up in this post, I feel that how a model runs her raffles, falls under the "Your room, Your rules" clause. One may not like her rules, but they should at least respect them. Afterall, the model usually spends a lot of time off cam preparing for the raffle.

Does it bother you if the multipliers are for offline tips?

Absolutely not! In fact, this makes raffles really fun, imo. But let's be honest, when someone like Jolene offers this, she is sacrificing tokens that can help her in making her goals, in order to make the raffle more "sporty" and interesting. That's something else I had to remind myself about, during my short period of ass-hatery! :lol:

My :twocents-02cents:

 

[mynameisbob84]

The only time I ever really buy raffle tickets is if they're priced at or close to the amount I was planning on tipping anyway. 'Tis no big deal if I lose, and if I win, it's just a pleasant bonus, ya know?

If however, I was tipping specifically for raffle tickets with a view to winning, I'd like to think that the members with a greater chance of winning than me, were in that position because they tipped more than me, and not just because they happened to buy their tickets on a slow Thursday as opposed to a busy Monday. Also, you could argue that "deals" on raffle tickets aren't actually all that beneficial to the members who buy them. The fewer people in a raffle, the greater the chances of winning are. By offering 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 on raffle tickets, there's a greater chance of members buying tickets, in turn lowering the odds of those same members winning. Obviously, that's the whole point of running the deal - to sell more tickets - and it works out great for the model if members bite, but the more members who do bite, the worse the deal winds up being for them and their chances of winning. And as mentioned, it really puts the folk who bought tickets at full price at a disadvantage :twocents-02cents:

 

[AliciaLeigh]

Love this thread - especially since I'm running 2 raffles this month.

I don't run many raffles but when I have I don't think I've ever discounted the tickets. Not judging anyone by saying this, but I have always thought running a sale on tickets seemed a little unfair to people who already purchased them. Not only that, but I usually price tickets pretty low to encourage more people to participate. 100+ tokens per ticket might turn some non-regulars away - especially if they've been scammed before, have never won a raffle, or don't know much about a model. Under 50 tokens seems pretty reasonable because most people don't seem to mind dropping 20-30 tokens for a chance to win. :twocents-02cents:

I don't feel the same way about discounting videos, but I rarely do it and when I do my regulars (the ones who have ALL my videos) tell people that they should take advantage of "this great deal". So, they don't seem to be too bothered by video discounts after they've purchased them for full price.

 

[JoleneBrody]

This is interesting.
I've always just thought of offering double tickets as giving a tad more that day to my friends and never really looked at it from the possible negative perspective. Though I guess it's pretty rare I do a raffle for longer than a single day. I DO however usually give 2x tickets for offline tips that happen before I log on that night, while still putting it towards the show later.

While I know this technically is starting it off with a noted "special sale" so it likely has a different effect, I would be curious to hear peoples thoughts on the deals being for offline tips.

Does it bother you if the multipliers are for offline tips?

And wouldn't it seem if a models was treating raffle tickets more like an extra reward possibility for participating in her show goals/videos/member club things that it would take it out of the 'lottery' catagory and out it a little more in the 'county fair entry ticket raffle' zone?

I do not mind models offering special deals if I know about them in advance, and decided to spend my tokens at a premium price by choice. It is a bit annoying if you buy tens or hundreds of tickets to see a model offering them at a steep discount the next day.

Also in order to be a 'county fair entry ticket raffle' zone thing you would have to offer one free ticket, with no purchase needed to every single person who wanted one even the guests and basics I think.

I think we must have different county fairs... :lol:
Most county fairs I've been to have a prize, like a custom car, that every person who pays to get into the fair is entered into the raffle for. They are not technically just buying the ticket, they are paying for the event and now have an added bonus chance to win something. In turn, this might actually bring more people out to the county fair than if there wasn't a chance at a car... so the gamble is mostly on the side of the raffle holder and if this will actually somehow make revenue higher than normal.
Similarly, the raffles that are for fundraisers. You are technically giving to the fund (which is in this case my throbbing girl pocket) with the chance to win something... but the point is mainly and most certainly my throbbing pockets. Having the added prize is mostly just in hopes that people will see how important it is to support said pockets and their throbbing ways.

I'll add that because I count tickets towards my normal shows and it's usually just my friends who participate, I don't normally make more than my usual goal... and usually just ding my camscore for the extra time it takes on cam. I really ONLY look at it as a way to offer something to my friends who always support me, at possibly a price most everyone has a chance at. I know every model and raffle is different, this is just the way I run mine and is probably why I never really considered some of the negative outlooks on special deals...
I'm actually taking money out of my own pocket more often than not to do them, I just want my member friends to have fun and get cool stuff.

I appreciate everyone's viewpoints, they really did bring an interesting perspective into the mix.

 

[SexySteph]

Something else to keep in mind is these raffles are being run by camgirls, not big bussinesses, so sometimes, these sales are borne of desperation because sales WILL increase purchases. Sometimes no one is in the mood to buy 1 ticket for 50 tokens but when you offer 5 for 50 members frantically buy tons. That could be an extra $50 that helps her pay for the shipping (which depending where the girl or the winning member is can get EXPENSIVE). Sometimes a raffle idea is awesome but not going as well as planned so the model is doing these extra sales as a push to break even, not maliciously cheat you.

 

[Nordling]

Something else to keep in mind is these raffles are being run by camgirls, not big bussinesses, so sometimes, these sales are borne of desperation because sales WILL increase purchases. Sometimes no one is in the mood to buy 1 ticket for 50 tokens but when you offer 5 for 50 members frantically buy tons. That could be an extra $50 that helps her pay for the shipping (which depending where the girl or the winning member is can get EXPENSIVE). Sometimes a raffle idea is awesome but not going as well as planned so the model is doing these extra sales as a push to break even, not maliciously cheat you.

I totally understand this, and can sympathize. You plan something, think it will be fun, and it just doesn't materialize the way you envisioned. I would never get angry if a model were to change the price of raffle tickets in midstream, and if I liked the model, I'd continue to go to her room because, really, it's not that big a deal ...but.... I'd never buy another raffle ticket from her. No matter what the motive is, messing with the rules in any kind of gambling just isn't kosher.

 

[LaceyRoyce]

This was a really interesting read.

Will be rethinking the way I do sales on raffle tickets/games. i really don't understand why it seems to be such a big deal to everyone.. BUT it seems like pretty much all the members here feel that it DOES make a difference.. which is really interesting.

 

[goldenaye666]

Most contests on the Internet come with the disclaimer that terms are subject to change. You have to assume this with any webcam performer''s raffle, whether they state it or not. But they're optional participation, I mostly ignore them & usually choose not to knowingly join into them. Mostly been in raffles by tipping a random amount I wasn't even aware counted for tickets, or someone I know donating some of their tickets to me to make it more interesting for them. If I happen to win something, it is just a nice surprise. I avoid the whole get excited & then disappointed aspect of it that many people seem to experience.

 

[Nordling]

Most contests on the Internet come with the disclaimer that terms are subject to change. You have to assume this with any webcam performer''s raffle, whether they state it or not. But they're optional participation, I mostly ignore them & usually choose not to knowingly join into them. Mostly been in raffles by tipping a random amount I wasn't even aware counted for tickets, or someone I know donating some of their tickets to me to make it more interesting for them. If I happen to win something, it is just a nice surprise. I avoid the whole get excited & then disappointed aspect of it that many people seem to experience.

Why do we have to assume this? You know what they say about assumptions?

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Very interesting!

So, what about this scenario: A model starts a raffle and on the graphic on her profile, it states "1 ticket for 25 tokens, 10 for 200, 30 for 400." I have seen a lot of raffle graphics that specify that buying tickets in bulk will get a discount. Would this also be considered unfair, since tickets bought in a higher quantity are bought at a lower price?

 

[SexySteph]

Something else to keep in mind is these raffles are being run by camgirls, not big bussinesses, so sometimes, these sales are borne of desperation because sales WILL increase purchases. Sometimes no one is in the mood to buy 1 ticket for 50 tokens but when you offer 5 for 50 members frantically buy tons. That could be an extra $50 that helps her pay for the shipping (which depending where the girl or the winning member is can get EXPENSIVE). Sometimes a raffle idea is awesome but not going as well as planned so the model is doing these extra sales as a push to break even, not maliciously cheat you.

I totally understand this, and can sympathize. You plan something, think it will be fun, and it just doesn't materialize the way you envisioned. I would never get angry if a model were to change the price of raffle tickets in midstream, and if I liked the model, I'd continue to go to her room because, really, it's not that big a deal ...but.... I'd never buy another raffle ticket from her. No matter what the motive is, messing with the rules in any kind of gambling just isn't kosher.

But she never stated in the rules that prices would never change. You're ASSUMING that they will remain consistent when the nature of MFC is that girls change prices all the time. She didn't change any rules, you just made up rules in your head.

 

[JimsX]

This is interesting.
I've always just thought of offering double tickets as giving a tad more that day to my friends and never really looked at it from the possible negative perspective. Though I guess it's pretty rare I do a raffle for longer than a single day. I DO however usually give 2x tickets for offline tips that happen before I log on that night, while still putting it towards the show later.

While I know this technically is starting it off with a noted "special sale" so it likely has a different effect, I would be curious to hear peoples thoughts on the deals being for offline tips.

Does it bother you if the multipliers are for offline tips?

And wouldn't it seem if a models was treating raffle tickets more like an extra reward possibility for participating in her show goals/videos/member club things that it would take it out of the 'lottery' catagory and out it a little more in the 'county fair entry ticket raffle' zone?

I have seen a few models do 2x for offline tips, but their profiles specified this. In that case if the guy didn't read the profile and raffle rules, it's his problem not yours

 

[Nordling]

Something else to keep in mind is these raffles are being run by camgirls, not big bussinesses, so sometimes, these sales are borne of desperation because sales WILL increase purchases. Sometimes no one is in the mood to buy 1 ticket for 50 tokens but when you offer 5 for 50 members frantically buy tons. That could be an extra $50 that helps her pay for the shipping (which depending where the girl or the winning member is can get EXPENSIVE). Sometimes a raffle idea is awesome but not going as well as planned so the model is doing these extra sales as a push to break even, not maliciously cheat you.

I totally understand this, and can sympathize. You plan something, think it will be fun, and it just doesn't materialize the way you envisioned. I would never get angry if a model were to change the price of raffle tickets in midstream, and if I liked the model, I'd continue to go to her room because, really, it's not that big a deal ...but.... I'd never buy another raffle ticket from her. No matter what the motive is, messing with the rules in any kind of gambling just isn't kosher.

But she never stated in the rules that prices would never change. You're ASSUMING that they will remain consistent when the nature of MFC is that girls change prices all the time. She didn't change any rules, you just made up rules in your head.

Of merchandise, yes. But as we've said a few times in this thread--a game of chance is not the same animal. When one bets on a horse or a raffle, once expects the already-slim chance of winning will not suddenly become even worse. It's simply not kosher. Many things in life are built on conventions. Gambling is one of them.

Also, it smacks of trickery. Certainly, if you said in advance "the price may go down thursday," many buyers would wait for Thursday. So, when there's NO warning, the early buyer feels cheated.

 

[Gen]

I love when threads go this way and you wind up learning a lot! I've changed raffle ticket prices on slow days but I can 100% see why that would be annoying. I love this forum.

 

[bakersman]

There is a parable from the bible which exactly describes this situation, lol. It's in Matthew Chap 20 and goes like this:

20 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius[a] for the day and sent them into his vineyard.

3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.

“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’

7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.

“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’

8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’

9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”



HAHAHAHA, so Jesus here is saying that you can sell raffle tickets at any price you want--I mean, after all, the people who paid for the tickets agreed on the price, didn't they? Who do the unsold tickets belong to? The model! [HAHAHA, I don't agree at all--Jesus is being a total dick here--and in the raffle ticket case, the grumbling might piss off the very people who are your best customers, so will have future repercussions. Though if things like '2 for 1 for offline tips' or whatever are all upfront I agree that there would be little cause for legitimate grumbling.]

The issue of lowering the price on videos which have been out for a while is different, I think, in that it's pretty common to pay more when something is hot off the press, and allows the model to make money on videos that she wouldn't otherwise have made, though if you get totally consistent with always lowering the price after a month or something you would train guys to wait. So in this case it's better to NOT be upfront about '300 tokens today and 100 in a month', lol.

Once I was buying hot dogs at a stand with a friend and right after we'd paid our dollar for a hot dog the guy lowered the price to 2 hot dogs for a dollar (end of the day he was trying to unload them). My friend raised a big stink and kept at it really quite relentlessly until the guy gave us extra hot dogs. See? Those vineyard workers should have grumbled more, and then Jesus would have relented and given the ones who worked more more money.

[like most atheists, I know the bible pretty well, lol]

 

[JerryBoBerry]

This was a really interesting read.

Will be rethinking the way I do sales on raffle tickets/games. i really don't understand why it seems to be such a big deal to everyone.. BUT it seems like pretty much all the members here feel that it DOES make a difference.. which is really interesting.

To me there's two sides to this. One is the purely mathematical side. There it does make a difference in the odds.

The other side is the reality of the situation. I know there's discounts and sales that go on all the time and it really doesn't bother me. Like I said earlier I also take advantage of the sales. And if I know a model has done that in the past I'll quite often wait until she does put them on sale before I'll buy. That way I'm one of those with better odds for my buck.

Would I change anything if I were any of you models? Not really. Maybe just note in the graphic that sale events could happen, or something like that, and it's all good to anyone. But I wouldn't stop offering deals on slow nights or such. I think we all know realistically you're there to make money and if running a 'two for one' sale or something helps that along, that's the primary goal.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

This was a really interesting read.

Will be rethinking the way I do sales on raffle tickets/games. i really don't understand why it seems to be such a big deal to everyone.. BUT it seems like pretty much all the members here feel that it DOES make a difference.. which is really interesting.

To me there's two sides to this. One is the purely mathematical side. There it does make a difference in the odds.

The other side is the reality of the situation. I know there's discounts and sales that go on all the time and it really doesn't bother me. Like I said earlier I also take advantage of the sales. And if I know a model has done that in the past I'll quite often wait until she does put them on sale before I'll buy. That way I'm one of those with better odds for my buck.

Would I change anything if I were any of you models? Not really. Maybe just note in the graphic that sale events could happen, or something like that, and it's all good to anyone. But I wouldn't stop offering deals on slow nights or such. I think we all know realistically you're there to make money and if running a 'two for one' sale or something helps that along, that's the primary goal.

Since I love sales I'd be real hypocrite if I said it bothered me too much. Still I did fairly recently buy a bunch of raffle tickets and I was bit annoyed when a couple of days later the model offered 3x raffle tickets for offline. I grumbled and then proceed to spend just as much to buy the tickets and got 3x as many, which I knew put me in the lead for the raffle.

In general I think models should be far more cautious about offering huge (2-3x) discounts on content and probably never offer discounts on raffle tickets. For this particular contest I was quite interested in the prize, so I was happy to make the ~1K tip to help with the countdown. But once I knew she'd offer huge discount for raffle tickets, I was no longer interested in buying tickets to help with the countdown. So realistically rather than making money by the offering discounts she probably lost money cause I would have tipped probably twice during future countdown during the contest.

So the effect of offering sales on raffle ticket is to create; buyers regret in all those in recently bought, establish a new price in your regular's mind for the tickets, and quite possible stall future sales of raffle tickets while they wait to go on sale in the future. Unlike something like video, there is no intrinsic value to a raffle ticket. Sure I might be more willing to spend 10 tokens on win all models video with a model I don't know at all than 100 tokens for a a single raffle tickets. But If I am prepared to spend 500 tokens for a models raffle I don't care if I get 5 tickets or 50, my chances of winning are function of how many other purchases and have nothing to do with the price of the raffle tickets. Offering discounts on tickets when bought in large quantity perhaps makes sense., but I am not sure if getting 100 tokens for 5 nights for raffle tickets is better than get 500 tokens once in a pay period. Now I am sure there are few people who are just passing by, that are motivated by the 2-1 sale to buy raffle tickets. Still I would guess in general that raffle ticket purchases are far more likely to be regulars, than guys who buy videos.

I should add that so many large tippers on MFC are "just because" that it is entirely possible that Will the Whale decided to drop 3K tip just because he wanted to that day, and it had nothing to do with the price of your raffle tickets.

 

[Kunra9]

I would also be annoyed if I got in on a raffle on day 1. Paid the price for entry to get my tickets, and then on the last day, I watch another guy spend half the money and get double the tickets I had in.

I get why it's done, but it does kind of suck. I spent twice as much as that guy and half worse odds to win than he does.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I would also be annoyed if I got in on a raffle on day 1. Paid the price for entry to get my tickets, and then on the last day, I watch another guy spend half the money and get double the tickets I had in.

I get why it's done, but it does kind of suck. I spent twice as much as that guy and half worse odds to win than he does.

And to be truthful I would be more upset depending on the prize involved. Raffles for things like videos or one hour skypes...things of that nature. I wouldn't be upset really at all.

But let's say it was a raffle for a new Ipad, or Xbox or an all expense paid trip to Europe to meet the model and go out on a date. My level of annoyance would be significantly higher if I had spent 2000 tokens on a raffle ticket and then the last week she started offering deals to people then.