ACF 2012 Presidential Election Poll

[Neudiin]

Thank you Amber =)

 

[Bocefish]

Keep drinking that Obama kool-aid








Facts Under Obama from fact checkers:

Total federal debt increased 52%
Debt held by the public up 79%
Household family income down 5%
People in poverty increased 6.4 million
People on food stamps up 46%

 

[Mirra]

Under Obama from fact checkers:

Gas prices up over 100%

This "fact" is EXTREMELY misleading.

The following is a screenshot I've taken from http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/steo/realprices/.

As you can see, Gas Prices reached $3.85 per gallon during the third quarter of 2008. It then plummeted toward a low during the fourth quarter reaching that low in the first quarter of 2009 when Obama took office. The average price then was indeed a nice low $1.89 per gallon which makes for a wonderful statistic, doesn't it?

 

[Bocefish]

Under Obama from fact checkers:

Gas prices up over 100%

This "fact" is EXTREMELY misleading.

The following is a screenshot I've taken from http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/steo/realprices/.

As you can see, Gas Prices reached $3.85 per gallon during the third quarter of 2008. It then plummeted toward a low during the fourth quarter reaching that low in the first quarter of 2009 when Obama took office. The average price then was indeed a nice low $1.89 per gallon which makes for a wonderful statistic, doesn't it?

 

[schlmoe]

That "support the troops" rhetoric has done nothing but serve the interests of those who declared and prolonged the war in the first place.

The "Support our Troops" is just a right wing conspiracy to prolong the war. Really? You have said a lot of fucked up things, but this pretty much tops them all. That idea is just despicable and disgusting. But that is par for the course for you. You throw out crap like that like its fact, move on and throw out more crap.

You have no clue, none. As opposed to your "Right-wing conspiracy", the truth of the matter is that the "Support our troops" is apolitical. Started by families. The "Yellow Ribbon" campaign started during the Iranian Hostage Crisis, that families would hang a yellow ribbon until their family was home. Then it evolved into families supporting their brother & sisters, sons & daughters, mothers & fathers who have been deployed. Started by families. To support each other. Then it grew, to "hey, maybe we can make things a little better for our families while we're separated". Little things. Toothpaste, nuts, hard candy, all the usual right-wing stuff.

You could have looked this stuff up, but you're not interested in the truth. Just to post your little bombs, harvest your all important forum thanks, and get your little giggles. Par for the Jupiter course. Great job, buddy!

You might have the inkling that I have taken this a tad personal. You'd be right. In addition to 3 of my family members who have been in combat, many of my friends have been there, as well. One of my only friends on ACF has been there, too. Maybe that shouldn't that turn me into a right-wing nut job. I'm such a right-wing nutjob that I was scared shitless the whole time my people were deployed. So scared I'd do anything to prolong the war. Or maybe I just wanted to send them a soda and some toothpaste so they could brush their teeth because they haven't seen running water for weeks, and to replace their toothpaste that they lost in the confusion after the Humvee blew up. Getting them some baby-wipes to compensate for no showers in over a month. Yep, that's some neo-con thinking for you. Getting a SIM card so they have a few minutes on the phone with their loved ones. Yeah, I'm pro-war all right. Are you fucking kidding me? They had to go. I didn't want that. I want them back ASAP, and until they get back if I can do ANYTHING to give them an ounce, a gram of comfort, I'm going to do that. So yeah, I'm part of THAT right-wing conspiracy. You have totally mangled this into a belief that "Support Our Troops" is some sort of unconditional support of military operations. You will most likely never see how wrong you are, nor acknowledge it.

You guys really did turn into a neo-fascist state for a while

On behalf of the United States, I'd like to apologize for hurting your sensibilities with our fascism. /sarcasm

DATELINE Hollywood: It has just been announced that Jupiter has been signed to play the Alicia Silverstone role in the remake of the 1995 film "Clueless". Director Amy Heckerling was quoted as saying "Signing him was a great coup and a no-brainer. We are confident that movie-goers will accept Jupiter in this role, especially when they see that he is, in fact, totally clueless".

It's been said that "it happened over 10 years ago, it's time to move on". Forgive me if I revisit ancient history for a bit. I lived in the DC area on 9-11, and my oldest brother was stationed at the Pentagon. One of my co-workers lost her husband, a Naval Officer, in the Pentagon attack. It was several days before I was able to find out that my brother was alive. Cell phones and land-lines didn't work properly because of the overloaded circuits. My family and friends had no idea if I was OK. Imagine waking up on Sept. 12, and finding the entire 8 mile route to work was lined with large dudes in black ninja suits. Large dudes armed with giant fucking automatic weapons. Armed with street sweepers, grenade launchers. It was probably my paranoia, but I swear I saw fucking portable rocket launchers. Imagine going into your office of 700 co-workers on Sept 12 and all you see is groups huddled together crying. You need a fucking cigarette, but bad. Imagine going to the 3rd floor patio for a smoke and all you see is smoke coming from the east, and then you see smoke from the west. Then it hits you that from the west, it's not smoke, it's contrails from the 3 or so fighter jets circling the area. Imagine going home to try to watch some TV to take your mind off all that, but all that's on is the replay of the jet plunging in to tower #2, over and over. Then, imagine going to bed and being awakened every 30-40 minutes by the search helicopters that are patrolling the area adjacent to the airport. Can you possibly imagine a tiny bit of this?

How about imagining the scene in NYC? Starting in November 2011, I made a half dozen business trips there. Coming off the bridge it looked like fog, but I was mistaken. So the first thing that hit me when I got out of my car, was the smoke/smog in the air. I was jarred when I realized that in addition to the smoke, all kinds of particles were floating around. Particles, with origins that I didn't want to think about. Smoke with a stink that I can still smell today. So, I go to my business meeting. Ironically, I was in town to perform security evaluations. I couldn't stop staring at one of the primary client contacts. I noticed that his right hand was heavily bandaged when he offered his left hand to shake. His cheek was also heavily bandaged. He was head of security for 130 Liberty Street. After the meeting, my escort told me that the injuries he suffered were due to his insistance that he would not leave until everyone was safely evacuated. Imagine your blood running cold after hearing that. Imagine wanting to get the hell out of there ASAP. But you can't. You are trapped for 4 days in Manhattan because the police have barracaded the streets for a few funerals. Funerals that were still happening over 2 months after the fact. Imagine wanting to get the fuck out of Dodge, but where do you go? Our 2 most powerful cities were dealing with the aftermath of the attacks, who's next? Imagine that.

So you think we went all fascist on you, huh? Well, excuse the fuck out of me, we were a little on edge. I offer no further excuse. Maybe we went too far. Maybe we could have been more "moderate" in our thinking and actions. Maybe the US was a little on edge, but I was scared shitless. Imagine that.

I'm certainly not asking you to feel sorry for me, or my country. But. Imagine it was your 2 most powerful cities. Imagine if it was the Sydney Opera House in ashes or the Sydney Harbor Bridge destroyed. Is that an excuse for excess? No. Is is a reason to cut some slack, maybe give a little benefit of the doubt? You'll have to answer that, but your previous words say no. Go ahead and stay in your perfect little world, take your potshots and have your giggles. Please, you have my permission to also keep your holier than thou attitude.

You know what, Jupiter? None of this is your problem. Totally mine. My problem is that I was so terribly wrong about you. I used to think that you were an open minded, reasonably intelligent person. I'm just pissed that my evaluation skills have apparently eroded that much.

End of thread derail, maybe the end of other things

 

[AmberCutie]

Jesus christ, I really hope Amber just gets you off this board, you sicken me.

I have resisted the urge to ban completed based off my dislike of him (and the fact that I normally require a member to have a soul to be part of ACF), so if the general consensus is to off him, just give me the word.

Thank you Amber =)

I FUCKING LOVE me some Tard cat.

 

[Mirra]

So you're arguing that the successful policies of George W. Bush finally made an impact in his last 6 months in office after 7.5 years of wild fluctuation with an overall increasing trend? And you accuse US of drinking the kool-aid? You know who has the most control on gas prices? The oil suppliers and speculators.

 

[Anonymous]

Jesus christ, I really hope Amber just gets you off this board, you sicken me.

I second that emotion. I am beyond sickened by this freak.

 

[SatanJonez]

If he has to hide the fact he's posting here from his wife & hasn't put anything constructive into this thread for at least...10 pages I think I'll third the motion. At this point it seems like it should be for his own good.


EDIT: Good job trolling though, whether you were trying to or not. I've never seen this forum feed into someone THIS much.

 

[AmberCutie]

Well that's 3 motions to proceed.

Want to hear from some of the folks arguing with him in this thread. I know how some will cry if you take their toy away while they're still enjoying playing with it...

 

[Mirra]

I support the enlisted men and women more unconditionally than the officers. When things like that bullshit at Abu Ghraib or the soldiers pissing on dead bodies happens, that's unacceptable and flushes any respect I had down the toilet.

That's part of war, Baby. You do everything to your enemy to entice the others to make them quit. Piss on them, shit on them as they are dying, mutilate them, execute their family in front of them, rub pork all over them, have their wife fuck some other guy and then the locals stone her to death for infidelity while the guy watches. That's war, Baby. They asked for it. We brought it. You people would vomit if you knew what happened in war.

Before I just found you scary. With this response, it's way beyond that. Ugh.

 

[Anonymous]

If he has to hide the fact he's posting here from his wife & hasn't put anything constructive into this thread for at least...10 pages I think I'll third the motion. At this point it seems like it should be for his own good.

Yeah, he's acting like he's jerking off to a hot naked cam model or something behind her back...lol.

Or as if his wife would see this forum and shout at him "AMBER CUTIE??? WHO THE FUCK IS AMBER CUTIE?!" :lol:

 

[SatanJonez]

If he has to hide the fact he's posting here from his wife & hasn't put anything constructive into this thread for at least...10 pages I think I'll third the motion. At this point it seems like it should be for his own good.

Yeah, he's acting like he's jerking off to a hot naked cam model or something behind her back...lol.

Or as if his wife would see this forum and shout at him "AMBER CUTIE??? WHO THE FUCK IS AMBER CUTIE?!" :lol:

She'd probably recognize the name & start hitting him in the head while screaming "I COULD CRUSH A MONSTER CAN WITH MY ASS TOO IF YOU EVER PAID ANY ATTENTION TO ME!" :lol: :lol:

 

[Bocefish]

So you're arguing that the successful policies of George W. Bush finally made an impact in his last 6 months in office after 7.5 years of wild fluctuation with an overall increasing trend? And you accuse US of drinking the kool-aid? You know who has the most control on gas prices? The oil suppliers and speculators.

No, I'm saying Obama is clueless. Obama said in the 2nd debate that gas prices were low under Bush beacuase the economy was about to crash. How does that lower gas prices? He also admitted to wanting high gas prices along with wanting to bankrupt the coal industry.

 

[AmberCutie]

I support the enlisted men and women more unconditionally than the officers. When things like that bullshit at Abu Ghraib or the soldiers pissing on dead bodies happens, that's unacceptable and flushes any respect I had down the toilet.

That's part of war, Baby. You do everything to your enemy to entice the others to make them quit. Piss on them, shit on them as they are dying, mutilate them, execute their family in front of them, rub pork all over them, have their wife fuck some other guy and then the locals stone her to death for infidelity while the guy watches. That's war, Baby. They asked for it. We brought it. You people would vomit if you knew what happened in war.

Before I just found you scary. With this response, it's way beyond that. Ugh.

Oh holy shit in a handbasket... nevermind I'm not waiting for anymore consensus. This is just too disturbing.

OFF WITH HIM!

 

[MrRodry]

Tubby how many Iraqis were part of the 9/11 attack? How many Iraqis attacked the Libyan Embassy?

You think causing two prolonged wars in the middle east has actually reduced terrorism in the present OR the future? Aside from the fact it's not a quantifiable argument, foreign policy in the middle east over the last 10 years has undoubtedly created more die-hard hate for America in the region, along with willing recruits who've seen their families blown up, parents killed, etc. You helped create a whole new generation of terrorists.

You killed a 14 year old girl because she was "about" to pick up a rocket launcher from her father's corpse and then fire it at you? How the fuck do you know what she was about to do?? Maybe she was about to check her father's pulse, or was in shock and was about to shake him. Jesus christ, I really hope Amber just gets you off this board, you sicken me.

My favorite part is when Tubby says that USA went on a war against muslims, when in real life, and that shows how much Tubbs knows about his own country, USA have a stabilized and growing Muslim community.

You know who doesn't support our troops? Idiot politicians who send them into wars that could have been avoided. I'd say needlessly killing troops (not to mention civilians) by starting a pointless war qualifies as NOT SUPPORTING them.

Please explain to me how we could have avoided war with Muslims. Please explain how 11 Sept 2001 could have been prevented. Perhaps if Clinton would have taken his cock out of that fat bitch's mouth and focused on OBL instead?

I know that looks like the Republican party is trying to wipe out the 8 years of Bush II administration from contemporary history, it is understandable after all, but more and more evidences keeps showing up that Bush was the one ignoring the warnings about 9/11.

 

[SatanJonez]

Now that's over and done with, enjoy this palette cleanser



Regularly scheduled, non-psychopathic-shock-jock-imitating debating may now commence.

 

[WildFingers]

Why cant people just have a discussion without taking things personally and argue every minute bit of minutia and just be entertaining,

If you feel offended by some one then don't read any of his/her posts. Don't stress over this stuff. I have stayed away from this post because of all the rage it will cause if you do not see my political viewpoint because you are so stuck on yours.

Ok now, group hug! and I mean everybody. . .

 

[MrRodry]

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I support the enlisted men and women more unconditionally than the officers. When things like that bullshit at Abu Ghraib or the soldiers pissing on dead bodies happens, that's unacceptable and flushes any respect I had down the toilet.

That's part of war, Baby. You do everything to your enemy to entice the others to make them quit. Piss on them, shit on them as they are dying, mutilate them, execute their family in front of them, rub pork all over them, have their wife fuck some other guy and then the locals stone her to death for infidelity while the guy watches. That's war, Baby. They asked for it. We brought it. You people would vomit if you knew what happened in war.

Before I just found you scary. With this response, it's way beyond that. Ugh.

Oh holy shit in a handbasket... nevermind I'm not waiting for anymore consensus. This is just too disturbing.

OFF WITH HIM!

AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! I actually stopped reading his posts a while ago, just couldn't be bothered with it, instead I read the responses to soften the blow lol. But that is fucking scary. lol Amber I'm glad you've got rid of him. There are some things people just don't need to hear.

 

[AmberCutie]

Why cant people just have a discussion without taking things personally and argue every minute bit of minutia and just be entertaining,

If you feel offended by some one then don't read any of his/her posts. Don't stress over this stuff. I have stayed away from this post because of all the rage it will cause if you do not see my political viewpoint because you are so stuck on yours.

Ok now, group hug! and I mean everybody. . .

Given the fact that I run this forum, I reserve the right to be irritated at people who post outlandishly offensive shit.

 

[apoe_lacks]

I was there. In Iraq in 2003 all we had to look foreward to was the few little things we got from home. it didnt matter to me that the war was right or wrong. we had a job to do our country sent us to do. we went cuase it was what we where suppost to do. people who make comments like your jupiter have to clue what was really going on there you what the media wanted you to see. 24million were liberated from the grips of an evil dictator. i lost friends brothers-in-arms in this war im not happy about it but its what we had to do. and the people who sent us a few small comforts form home or took time out of thier busy lifes to stop and wave a flag and say thank you means more to me then anything. so I want to say thank you to all the ones here who did "support the troops"

That "support the troops" rhetoric has done nothing but serve the interests of those who declared and prolonged the war in the first place.

The "Support our Troops" is just a right wing conspiracy to prolong the war. Really? You have said a lot of fucked up things, but this pretty much tops them all. That idea is just despicable and disgusting. But that is par for the course for you. You throw out crap like that like its fact, move on and throw out more crap.

You have no clue, none. As opposed to your "Right-wing conspiracy", the truth of the matter is that the "Support our troops" is apolitical. Started by families. The "Yellow Ribbon" campaign started during the Iranian Hostage Crisis, that families would hang a yellow ribbon until their family was home. Then it evolved into families supporting their brother & sisters, sons & daughters, mothers & fathers who have been deployed. Started by families. To support each other. Then it grew, to "hey, maybe we can make things a little better for our families while we're separated". Little things. Toothpaste, nuts, hard candy, all the usual right-wing stuff.

You could have looked this stuff up, but you're not interested in the truth. Just to post your little bombs, harvest your all important forum thanks, and get your little giggles. Par for the Jupiter course. Great job, buddy!

You might have the inkling that I have taken this a tad personal. You'd be right. In addition to 3 of my family members who have been in combat, many of my friends have been there, as well. One of my only friends on ACF has been there, too. Maybe that shouldn't that turn me into a right-wing nut job. I'm such a right-wing nutjob that I was scared shitless the whole time my people were deployed. So scared I'd do anything to prolong the war. Or maybe I just wanted to send them a soda and some toothpaste so they could brush their teeth because they haven't seen running water for weeks, and to replace their toothpaste that they lost in the confusion after the Humvee blew up. Getting them some baby-wipes to compensate for no showers in over a month. Yep, that's some neo-con thinking for you. Getting a SIM card so they have a few minutes on the phone with their loved ones. Yeah, I'm pro-war all right. Are you fucking kidding me? They had to go. I didn't want that. I want them back ASAP, and until they get back if I can do ANYTHING to give them an ounce, a gram of comfort, I'm going to do that. So yeah, I'm part of THAT right-wing conspiracy. You have totally mangled this into a belief that "Support Our Troops" is some sort of unconditional support of military operations. You will most likely never see how wrong you are, nor acknowledge it.

You guys really did turn into a neo-fascist state for a while

On behalf of the United States, I'd like to apologize for hurting your sensibilities with our fascism. /sarcasm

DATELINE Hollywood: It has just been announced that Jupiter has been signed to play the Alicia Silverstone role in the remake of the 1995 film "Clueless". Director Amy Heckerling was quoted as saying "Signing him was a great coup and a no-brainer. We are confident that movie-goers will accept Jupiter in this role, especially when they see that he is, in fact, totally clueless".

It's been said that "it happened over 10 years ago, it's time to move on". Forgive me if I revisit ancient history for a bit. I lived in the DC area on 9-11, and my oldest brother was stationed at the Pentagon. One of my co-workers lost her husband, a Naval Officer, in the Pentagon attack. It was several days before I was able to find out that my brother was alive. Cell phones and land-lines didn't work properly because of the overloaded circuits. My family and friends had no idea if I was OK. Imagine waking up on Sept. 12, and finding the entire 8 mile route to work was lined with large dudes in black ninja suits. Large dudes armed with giant fucking automatic weapons. Armed with street sweepers, grenade launchers. It was probably my paranoia, but I swear I saw fucking portable rocket launchers. Imagine going into your office of 700 co-workers on Sept 12 and all you see is groups huddled together crying. You need a fucking cigarette, but bad. Imagine going to the 3rd floor patio for a smoke and all you see is smoke coming from the east, and then you see smoke from the west. Then it hits you that from the west, it's not smoke, it's contrails from the 3 or so fighter jets circling the area. Imagine going home to try to watch some TV to take your mind off all that, but all that's on is the replay of the jet plunging in to tower #2, over and over. Then, imagine going to bed and being awakened every 30-40 minutes by the search helicopters that are patrolling the area adjacent to the airport. Can you possibly imagine a tiny bit of this?

How about imagining the scene in NYC? Starting in November 2011, I made a half dozen business trips there. Coming off the bridge it looked like fog, but I was mistaken. So the first thing that hit me when I got out of my car, was the smoke/smog in the air. I was jarred when I realized that in addition to the smoke, all kinds of particles were floating around. Particles, with origins that I didn't want to think about. Smoke with a stink that I can still smell today. So, I go to my business meeting. Ironically, I was in town to perform security evaluations. I couldn't stop staring at one of the primary client contacts. I noticed that his right hand was heavily bandaged when he offered his left hand to shake. His cheek was also heavily bandaged. He was head of security for 130 Liberty Street. After the meeting, my escort told me that the injuries he suffered were due to his insistance that he would not leave until everyone was safely evacuated. Imagine your blood running cold after hearing that. Imagine wanting to get the hell out of there ASAP. But you can't. You are trapped for 4 days in Manhattan because the police have barracaded the streets for a few funerals. Funerals that were still happening over 2 months after the fact. Imagine wanting to get the fuck out of Dodge, but where do you go? Our 2 most powerful cities were dealing with the aftermath of the attacks, who's next? Imagine that.

So you think we went all fascist on you, huh? Well, excuse the fuck out of me, we were a little on edge. I offer no further excuse. Maybe we went too far. Maybe we could have been more "moderate" in our thinking and actions. Maybe the US was a little on edge, but I was scared shitless. Imagine that.

I'm certainly not asking you to feel sorry for me, or my country. But. Imagine it was your 2 most powerful cities. Imagine if it was the Sydney Opera House in ashes or the Sydney Harbor Bridge destroyed. Is that an excuse for excess? No. Is is a reason to cut some slack, maybe give a little benefit of the doubt? You'll have to answer that, but your previous words say no. Go ahead and stay in your perfect little world, take your potshots and have your giggles. Please, you have my permission to also keep your holier than thou attitude.

You know what, Jupiter? None of this is your problem. Totally mine. My problem is that I was so terribly wrong about you. I used to think that you were an open minded, reasonably intelligent person. I'm just pissed that my evaluation skills have apparently eroded that much.

End of thread derail, maybe the end of other things

 

[Bocefish]

 

[Nordling]

Well that's 3 motions to proceed.

Want to hear from some of the folks arguing with him in this thread. I know how some will cry if you take their toy away while they're still enjoying playing with it...

To quote the President... Please, proceed.

 

[AmberCutie]

Well that's 3 motions to proceed.

Want to hear from some of the folks arguing with him in this thread. I know how some will cry if you take their toy away while they're still enjoying playing with it...

To quote the President... Please, proceed.

Already dun did. Maybe I should remove his avatar, I'm embarrassed my boob is associated with his name.

 

[Nordling]

A little about misplaced rage and anger.

When we talk about "support the troops," there is more than one thing going on. One is the support all decent US citizens and many of our allies give to brave soldiers who willingly go in harm's way to protect their country and related to that is the fact that families of those troops have created programs and who post ribbons to show their support. I really don't think Jupiter was talking about that.

What I think (and could certainly be wrong) Jupiter was talking about is the people who hold positions of power in our country who use the phrase "you don't support our troops" or variations as a bludgeon to attack those patriotic Americans who did NOT think attacking Iraq had ANYTHING to do with 911, which it didn't. To assume that they didn't support our troops is mendacity and the worst kind of politics.

In a thread like this, misplaced rage often crops up. Shit. I've felt it myself.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I was there. In Iraq in 2003 all we had to look foreward to was the few little things we got from home. it didnt matter to me that the war was right or wrong. we had a job to do our country sent us to do. we went cuase it was what we where suppost to do. people who make comments like your jupiter have to clue what was really going on there you what the media wanted you to see. 24million were liberated from the grips of an evil dictator. i lost friends brothers-in-arms in this war im not happy about it but its what we had to do. and the people who sent us a few small comforts form home or took time out of thier busy lifes to stop and wave a flag and say thank you means more to me then anything. so I want to say thank you to all the ones here who did "support the troops"

Not that I'm going to defend saddam on being an evil dictator, but even those who were against him in the country said that they wish the war hadn't happened and preferred how things were before under his rule. Essentially it's similar to someone on the outside seeing a girl with a complete bellend of a boyfriend who hits her, now you could go up and get all in his face and she'd be happy, but chances are if you did that she'd be pissed off at you and tell you to f off. Fact is however much you want to white knight, that girl has chosen to be with and stay with that guy.
Yes it looks like these people need saving, but most of them do not want saving, and they definitely don't want saving by us invading their country/homes and killing off all their soldiers.
However corrupt Iraq was people did choose him to rule. Yes the system could have been a lot better, and by our standards it was horrible, but it really wasn't any of our business to say that. Besides it clearly wasn't anything to do with "saving Iraq from an evil leader".

Although I have respect for soldiers who go out to wars etc I don't really have much sympathy or respect for those out of them who go on about the woes as though they were forced into it/had no choice. As far as I know in the Iraq war no one was forced. You sign up to the army and get your wage not just to sit around and train, you do it so that if needs be you go to war. Everyone can have a good moan about their work, but surely if you're a soldier you knew that you weren't going to be mothered. It's a hard life. Hence why I haven't chosen it. I also believe though as someone who hasn't chosen that life you should try and support those who have as much as possible, whether you believe the war is right or wrong, you should support those who are involved. It's not individual soldiers faults, and we need them in case our country ever got invaded.

As far as I've heard the American military do a lot of really amazing stuff like cancer research, and any form of defence/weapons are important. I don't believe nukes should ever be used, but I understand that they are important as a threat alone. People in the Uk got really funny because x amount was spent on defence. x was a lot of money but worked out to like less than 1% of the funds. Do people really not value their safety? I get that things like that can seem wasteful, but it's the same reasons we get car insurance etc.

I've never actually heard of this "support the troops" stuff, do we not have it in England? I don't really know what it is or does. Is this why our marines don't get beer and porn and American troops do? (Although I have heard yours are nice and willing to share)

 

[Just Me]

I will state upfront that I was in the first Gulf War and I was against it. I went because it was my obligation as a member of the US military and I do not regret it. It was a picnic compared to what our troops have had to go through in Iraq and Afghanistan. That is not to belittle the troops that died in the first Gulf War and is a very general statement.

Do I "support the troops"? Of course I do. I also realize it is a rhetorical statement and has become a politicized. What I hate is , and it is mostly from the conservative right, if anyone speaks out against the wars or policies regarding the wars the first thing out of peoples mouths is, you don't support the troops. That is such bullshit. You can be against war and still support the troops, they are not diametrically opposed positions. I would go so far as to say, the people that are against the wars and sending our troops to die in other countries unnecessarily are supporting our troops more than the people that send them.

I know the "We Support our Troops" was started by the families of service members and I am sure it was in response to the problems our troops had after Vietnam and their return home. It is a sad fact that they were spit on and derided on their return but that was misplacement of anger and not something I can agree with or even understand really. I am happy that we are not seeing that with our troops returns from latter conflicts. I was even the recipient of that support, much to my chagrin and embarrassment of a few occasions.

Slogans and bumper stickers are great, but they tend to loose their meaning for me when they are propagandized by either or both parties.

 

[Just Me]

blah blah blah bullshit blah blah blah

I applaud that he was banned but maybe not for the reasons everyone else had. :lol: Opinions are great, but if that is all you have and just go on and on ad nauseum, well then not so great. If you have trouble reading the tone and timber of a thread where many are trying to back up their opinion with some facts, then maybe you do not belong in polite society.

I am sure he is probably yelling somewhere about "free speech" but as we have touched on here and other threads that only applies to the government trying to limit your free speech. Amber is the final word on what is and is not appropriate here and I feel she has done a splendid job. :thumbleft:

 

[WildFingers]

Can this topic be saved and get back to a discussion on the election?