ACF 2012 Presidential Election Poll

[LadyLuna]

There's two different types of marriage. There's legal marriage and religious marriage. The legal marriage is what the law can decide or not decide. Religious marriage is up to the religion in and of themselves.

Legal marriage should be between two people of legal age who want to be married, regardless of sex, color, or social class.

 

[Bocefish]

Not sure what you mean by "new connotation." A new connotation is exactly what most of us are arguing in favor of.

A same-sex marriage between the two men Pedro Díaz and Muño Vandilaz in the Galician municipality of Rairiz de Veiga in Spain occurred on 16 April 1061. They were married by a priest at a small chapel. The historic documents about the church wedding were found at Monastery of San Salvador de Celanova.[83]

Another question about your opinion comes up...what about transgender people? Are they to be forced to use only "legal partnerships?"

You tell me. What shall their union be called?

I never mentioned anything about transgender people.

While we're at it, let's find out exactly how Nordling would handle it all?

Marriage for all species and rights for everything that breathes?

 

[morment]

I don't have the solution, just expressing how I feel and what I think.

How do committed same sex couples introduce themselves to a married husband and wife?

I'm really not trying to be an ass here.

If there was a new connotation, it would be easier to fight for constitutional rights rather than trying to change what has been known for centuries.

I'm not asking you about a solution to the problem, in my mind there shouldn't be a problem let them get married if they want.

I'm trying to understand why you feel there is a problem with same sex couples using the same word as opposite sex couples.

And just because things have been a certain way for centuries doesn't make it sacrosanct. For centuries it was illegal for a man and woman to get married if they weren't of the same race, is it wrong that we changed that practice? There were people back when it was changed that fought just as vehemently, or more so, to keep marriage the way it always had been. They were wrong then, and you're wrong now.

 

[morment]

Marriage for all species and rights for everything that breathes?

That argument's complete bullshit and you know it. An underage human or non-human do not have the ability to enter into a legal document, so to say that they're even remotely comparable is bullshit.

 

[Bocefish]

And just because things have been a certain way for centuries doesn't make it sacrosanct. For centuries it was illegal for a man and woman to get married if they weren't of the same race, is it wrong that we changed that practice? There were people back when it was changed that fought just as vehemently, or more so, to keep marriage the way it always had been. They were wrong then, and you're wrong now.

I'm wrong for having an opinion different than yours?

Who the fuck are you to tell me how to think? People deserve equal rights but in my opinion there are more efficient avenues to accomplish that.

 

[Nordling]

And just because things have been a certain way for centuries doesn't make it sacrosanct. For centuries it was illegal for a man and woman to get married if they weren't of the same race, is it wrong that we changed that practice? There were people back when it was changed that fought just as vehemently, or more so, to keep marriage the way it always had been. They were wrong then, and you're wrong now.

I'm wrong for having an opinion different than yours?

Who the fuck are you to tell me how to think, or that people deserve equal rights but in my opinion there are more efficient avenues to accomplish that?

So, let me get this straight. You have a right to post your opinion but no one has a right to critique it? Why even post your opinion on a MESSAGE BOARD then?

 

[morment]

And just because things have been a certain way for centuries doesn't make it sacrosanct. For centuries it was illegal for a man and woman to get married if they weren't of the same race, is it wrong that we changed that practice? There were people back when it was changed that fought just as vehemently, or more so, to keep marriage the way it always had been. They were wrong then, and you're wrong now.

I'm wrong for having an opinion different than yours?

Who the fuck are you to tell me how to think, or that people deserve equal rights but in my opinion there are more efficient avenues to accomplish that?

How is calling it something else more efficient?

Would you say the same thing to someone in the '60s who said someone who had the opinion that blacks shouldn't marry whites was wrong?

Also, I'm not telling you how to think, I'm telling you my opinion of what you've said you think.

 

[Bocefish]

And just because things have been a certain way for centuries doesn't make it sacrosanct. For centuries it was illegal for a man and woman to get married if they weren't of the same race, is it wrong that we changed that practice? There were people back when it was changed that fought just as vehemently, or more so, to keep marriage the way it always had been. They were wrong then, and you're wrong now.

I'm wrong for having an opinion different than yours?

Who the fuck are you to tell me how to think? People deserve equal rights but in my opinion there are more efficient avenues to accomplish that.

Quoted myself because I edited it before Nord replied.

 

[Bocefish]

I'm telling you my opinion of what you've said you think.

Which is why I don't give a shit what you say anymore.

 

[morment]

I'm telling you my opinion of what you've said you think.

Which is why I don't give a shit what you say anymore.

It's pretty clear that you didn't care before that either, I tried to understand where you were coming from, if there was a deeper reason for not using the term "married" for same sex couples for you but all you ever responded with was "it's been that way for centuries."

 

[Bocefish]

I'm telling you my opinion of what you've said you think.

Which is why I don't give a shit what you say anymore.

It's pretty clear that you didn't care before that either, I tried to understand where you were coming from, if there was a deeper reason for not using the term "married" for same sex couples for you but all you ever responded with was "it's been that way for centuries."

What part of how I thought from the beginning did you not understand?

 

[Nordling]

I'm telling you my opinion of what you've said you think.

Which is why I don't give a shit what you say anymore.

You began a thread about politics. Many people have contributed, and like any political thread, people are going to disagree. That is the nature of such discussion. And now you say you don't give a shit what anyone thinks? Then why start an opinion thread? Maybe you should start a blog--and you can just blabber your opinions with no one questioning them.

 

[morment]

What part of how I thought from the beginning did you not understand?

The fact that you seem to be hung up on the word itself and the fact that it's been used that way for centuries.

Tradition is not a good enough reason to keep doing something a certain way in and of itself.

 

[Bocefish]

I'm telling you my opinion of what you've said you think.

Which is why I don't give a shit what you say anymore.

You began a thread about politics. Many people have contributed, and like any political thread, people are going to disagree. That is the nature of such discussion. And now you say you don't give a shit what anyone thinks? Then why start an opinion thread? Maybe you should start a blog--and you can just blabber your opinions with no one questioning them.

Maybe you should learn that when people try to tell me my opinion and what I've said I think, it's time to set them straight.

 

[Bocefish]

I give up... Praise the chosen Obama.

 

[Nordling]

I'm telling you my opinion of what you've said you think.

Which is why I don't give a shit what you say anymore.

You began a thread about politics. Many people have contributed, and like any political thread, people are going to disagree. That is the nature of such discussion. And now you say you don't give a shit what anyone thinks? Then why start an opinion thread? Maybe you should start a blog--and you can just blabber your opinions with no one questioning them.

Maybe you should learn that when people try to tell me my opinion and what I've said I think, it's time to set them straight.

That's fine. But we can only derive what your opinion is by what you type on here--I mean, you might REALLY be a member of the Illuminati for all we know...that's not our business. When we're wrong in our interpretation, just tell us what you REALLY think; be patient with us, we can only make assumptions based on the English language and how you navigate through it. If we're wrong, tell us...fine...but don't get mad... illuminate us!

The scope of a message board is less than you might think...it's all about assumptions and corrections...it's "no, I didn't mean that, I meant ....." Not, "fuck you, quit putting words in my mouth!" If it seems like we're misquoting you, let us know!

 

[Bocefish]

I'm telling you my opinion of what you've said you think.

Which is why I don't give a shit what you say anymore.

You began a thread about politics. Many people have contributed, and like any political thread, people are going to disagree. That is the nature of such discussion. And now you say you don't give a shit what anyone thinks? Then why start an opinion thread? Maybe you should start a blog--and you can just blabber your opinions with no one questioning them.

Maybe you should learn that when people try to tell me my opinion and what I've said I think, it's time to set them straight.

That's fine. But we can only derive what your opinion is by what you type on here--I mean, you might REALLY be a member of the Illuminati for all we know...that's not our business. When we're wrong in our interpretation, just tell us what you REALLY think; be patient with us, we can only make assumptions based on the English language and how you navigate through it. If we're wrong, tell us...fine...but don't get mad... illuminate us!

The scope of a message board is less than you might think...it's all about assumptions and corrections...it's "no, I didn't mean that, I meant ....." Not, "fuck you, quit putting words in my mouth!" If it seems like we're misquoting you, let us know!

It's your fucking responsibility NOT to put words in my mouth and not my responsibility to sugar coat your asshole assumptions.

 

[Nordling]

It's your fucking responsibility NOT to put words in my mouth and not my responsibility to sugar coat your asshole assumptions.

I don't see where anyone put words in your mouth. Fine, don't sugar coat it, say, "fuck you Nord! What I meant was..." Otherwise we have no way of knowing.

You SAID "I believe marriage is between a man and a women." Who has said you said anything different than that? I'm sorry that it makes you angry that people think that's a shitty opinion, but so it goes.

 

[Paulie Walnuts]

It's funny, that when Mitt was dodging the draft, er I mean serving his church being a missionary they picked France to be where the good news of the LDS church was in dire need of being spread.

I would have guessed some other country was in more dire need of the good news like say....

Viet Nam.

Imagine all the converts that 4 deferments from service could have gotten the LDS church with Mittens knocking on doors and riding his bicycle around South Veit Nam.

I guess the French were just in more need of conversion than say... your average Vietnamese peasant.

Fucking LDS pussies.
:lol:

 

[Bocefish]

...meanwhile



He was clueless then and still is. He is a great man in his own regard, but he has proven he is no more qualified now than he was then to be POTUS. Bailouts and allowing our elite forces to do what they train for is hardly leadership. Americans needing food stamps at a record high, $600 million per day in interest without a budget plan other than more hope and phooey.

:hand:

 

[Nordling]

...meanwhile



He was clueless then and still is. He is a great man in his own regard, but he has proven he is no more qualified now than he was then to be POTUS. Bailouts and allowing our elite forces to do what they train for is hardly leadership. Americans needing food stamps at a record high, $600 million per day in interest without a budget plan other than more hope and phooey.

:hand:

Excuse me for trying to figure out what the hell is going on in your mind but what do you really want? A dictator? No one since FDR or possibly Woodrow Wilson has had so much Republican fuckheads blocking him from doing anything...and in spite of that we have an enormous list of accomplishment...which are miracles of leadership.

Which bailout? The one Bush did originally for the banks? Or possibly GM? How would putting all those auto workers on the street help anything? We were on the cusp of a depression and his preventing that from going full blown shows how smart the guy really is. Meanwhile you nitpick at shit like Solyndra (a Bush program) or other crap you hear from Odin knows where.

But finally, do you REALLY think Mittens will save us? By taxing the middle class more and cutting the billionaires taxes even more? (Ryan's budget).

The President is NOT Shaft...he's Mr. Tibbs. And for me, that's a much better choice.

 

[AllisonWilder]

I found this site to help you easily see what candidate has opinions much like your own. Kind of interesting for someone that's still undecided. http://votesmart.org/voteeasy/?utm_campaign=voteeasy&utm_source=votesmart&utm_medium=homepagead


This always makes me laugh when it comes to gay people/gay marriage. Unless some guy is trying to fuck you up the ass, why even care what they do? It makes no sense.

 

[Jupiter551]

That's just my opinion. I know several couples that consider themselves married and don't need any document to prove it, nor do they want one.

I was just offering some advice that may help in the fight to get the same rights as married couples. Take it or leave it. :twocents-02cents:

I'm actually wondering why you feel that marriage has to be confined to being between a man and woman.

In a marriage, there has always been a husband and wife. Trying to redefine that is an uphill battle that, imo, not worth it to gain the same rights for a word.

Here, since your country was based on 'christian principles', this might help define marriage

 

[camstory]

Why even post your opinion on a MESSAGE BOARD then?

Largly I imagian for the same reason I do, and I'm going to reason that it is also a major motivation for everyone else who post here, - Attention! I don't think that is something to be a shamed of, and you can call it interaction, or diologing, or whatever you want, but fact is, (for myself anyway), we are social animals, and we are here for the social interaction, - attention. I don't think that is the only reason we are here, but I think it is dishonest, even if only to ourselves to deny it.

 

[camstory]

I can't not understand how on a primarily liberal forum with openly bisexual and gay women (and possibly men) there is any surprise that some of the more conservative/right focused opinions in this thread are not favored.

I don't find it even a little surprising, and haven't noticed a lot of surprise about the supporters of the right getting a lot of hell. The surprise I'm hearing a lot of, is the surprise one has when they believe they know something to be so clearly correct, and they encounter someone else who fails to see it the same. What I have to stop and remember every now and then, is, that those who don't see clearly that which I do, feel what they think they know to be clearly correct , also. And, that they most likely are just as surprised that I fail to see clearly their POV. They are obviously wrong, but no less surprised. :lol:

 

[schlmoe]

I can't not understand how on a primarily liberal forum with openly bisexual and gay women (and possibly men) there is any surprise that some of the more conservative/right focused opinions in this thread are not favored.

I welcome differing opinions. I do not know everything, and there may some tidbit that could have an effect on my view point. Not necessarily on the marriage issue, but on the election in general.

What really baffles me is the amount of insults and petty bickering (not isolated on one person, either) that has been occurring. Polarizing speech is not the best way to explain your position...much less to convert someone to your point of view. :twocents-02cents:

 

[mynameisbob84]

I don't get the objection to gay people getting married. Unless you're like, way, way into Christianity or homophobic or something, I don't get why you'd care.
As I type this, there's probably thousands of gay guys ramming their schlongs up their partner's rectum, and thousands more lesbians scissoring the fuck out of one another - what difference does it make if they're married or not?

 

[bob]

I don't have the solution, just expressing how I feel and what I think.

How do committed same sex couples introduce themselves to a married husband and wife?

I'm really not trying to be an ass here.

If there was a new connotation, it would be easier to fight for constitutional rights rather than trying to change what has been known for centuries.

I'm not asking you about a solution to the problem, in my mind there shouldn't be a problem let them get married if they want.

I'm trying to understand why you feel there is a problem with same sex couples using the same word as opposite sex couples.

And just because things have been a certain way for centuries doesn't make it sacrosanct. For centuries it was illegal for a man and woman to get married if they weren't of the same race, is it wrong that we changed that practice? There were people back when it was changed that fought just as vehemently, or more so, to keep marriage the way it always had been. They were wrong then, and you're wrong now.

welpers...i agree that tradition alone is no reason to maintain a mindset...but changing it is akin to evolution, albeit cultural rather than biological, and i see cultural evolution as the struggle of social order to establish a framework for individual growth and dignity.....america nearly destroyed itself in a war about just that, and the constitution and the political institutions that it created recognized the importance of it, as well.

so i see boce's pov as one that acknowledges the need for change without dishonoring tradition, for the simple reason that the tradition of marriage as between a man and a woman -whether you agree with its importance or not- is extraordinarily important to a large % of the people in this country.

while i personally agree that any two adults that wanna get married outta have the right, our social framework needs some more small steps in that direction before that individual growth and dignity can be fully recognized, and i think the reason for that is principally because heterosexual males (who historically are the dictators of religious values) can't see past the sexuality of homosexual males, and so can't conceive that the emotional milieu of "romantic love" would have any meaning between two guys.

and in all honesty....i have a hard time wrapping my head around that too (which is why also why i feel that gay pride parades tend to be over the top, and self-defeating).....but then, it's really not my problem to understand it and judge its merit....only to accept that others can feel it and that it has merit for them.....

and given what wierd creatures we all are, that acceptance is easy :lol:

bottom line then for me is that whatever word is gonna be used to describe homosexual marriage at this point in time is a-ok with me (gays won't give up their fight....nor will the other side).....making an important political football of the issue is to ignore the nature of real game being played between the right and the left, imo.....

that's my nickle....carry on

 

[schlmoe]

I can't not understand how on a primarily liberal forum with openly bisexual and gay women (and possibly men) there is any surprise that some of the more conservative/right focused opinions in this thread are not favored.

I welcome differing opinions. I do not know everything, and there may some tidbit that could have an effect on my view point. Not necessarily on the marriage issue, but on the election in general.

What really baffles me is the amount of insults and petty bickering (not isolated on one person, either) that has been occurring. Polarizing speech is not the best way to explain your position...much less to convert someone to your point of view. :twocents-02cents:

I agree! Healthy debating and differences in opinions are great because they make people think, and possibly understand a different point of view. Getting pissed off and hostile because there is a difference of opinion seems silly to me because it's to be expected. Especially when posting in a forum that has many members that are more liberal, in this instance.

It's like going to a forum for the NCAAP and being angry that there is backlash when people don't agree with you saying Abraham Lincoln was a moron for his role in freeing the slaves. Ok, maybe that is an extreme example..but you know what I mean... LOL!

I just saw a tweet from Jason Alexander that referenced political discussions which ended with: "Condemn policy, not person". I think that fits here.

And yes, I can't believe I'm quoting George Costanza :mrgreen:

 

[Neudiin]

That's just my opinion for what may help. What happens when somebody wants to marry a dolphin? I'm just sayin' issues over a WORD and the substantial meanings behind them might progress faster.

Healthy debate is a good thing but when some one says something so stupid, bold for your ref, the debate has to end because that level of stupidity can't be debated. Because if this turns to abortion, he will spout the stupid shit about rape and what a woman's vajay will do.

Bocefish, seriously stop watching Fox news and listening to Rush. Cause you have yet to make an argument of any substance. When someone points that out or starts to question you about your opinions or beliefs you get angry rather than explain them. Try watching Jon Stewart's The Daily Show, its funny, makes fun of everyone(specially 24 hour news channels and not just Fox) and I think is pretty much spot on for how America feels about most issues.

here are 2 videos to show just how dumb people are on both sides.

RNC - http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-a ... n-platform

DNC - http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-s ... -inclusion

And with that I bid this discussion a fond farewell...well fond? maybe not but farewell =)