Woman Won't Face Murder Charges After Fetal Abduction

[Poker_Babe]

OK, so pretty recently, there was this pregnant woman (7 months along) who answered an ad on craigslist for baby clothes. She ended up getting her baby cut out of her, she survived, but the baby died. Now they say that the woman who cut the baby out won't be charged with murder, because the coroner says that there where no signs that the child was alive out side of the womb. And the state law says that the baby has to take at least one breath before dying in order to charge the womb raider with murder.
People are out raged right now that she won't be charged with murder, and to tell the truth it out rages me too, but I don't think she should be charged with murder if it's not legally considered murder. I think that it's a stupid law, and needs to be changed, and wish that she was being charged with murder. One witness even said he saw the baby take a breath before it died.
This got me thinking, what about Laci and Conner's Law? Couldn't she be charged with murder because of that? But after looking it up, it does state that the laws of individual states trumps the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.

I really feel that this law is such an injustice for the victim here. What do you guys think?

Here's the link to the story

 

[Sevrin]

Charging this crazy woman with murder won't bring Michelle Wilkin's baby back. As obviously premeditated as this was, the attacker is obviously out of her mind, and might not even be found guilty of attempted murder of the mother. I don't think this particular case is one anyone should want to use to broaden Colorado's law on killing a fetus. The danger that it might be used to charge mothers or doctors who abort late-term fetuses for legitimate medical reasons with murder is too great.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

OK, so pretty recently, there was this pregnant woman (7 months along) who answered an ad on craigslist for baby clothes. She ended up getting her baby cut out of her, she survived, but the baby died. Now they say that the woman who cut the baby out won't be charged with murder, because the coroner says that there where no signs that the child was alive out side of the womb. And the state law says that the baby has to take at least one breath before dying in order to charge the womb raider with murder.
People are out raged right now that she won't be charged with murder, and to tell the truth it out rages me too, but I don't think she should be charged with murder if it's not legally considered murder. I think that it's a stupid law, and needs to be changed, and wish that she was being charged with murder. One witness even said he saw the baby take a breath before it died.
This got me thinking, what about Laci and Conner's Law? Couldn't she be charged with murder because of that? But after looking it up, it does state that the laws of individual states trumps the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.

I really feel that this law is such an injustice for the victim here. What do you guys think?

Here's the link to the story

The witness saying he saw it breath is probably ridiculous. Medically they can determine if a baby has ever taken a breath. It's lungs are still filled with fluid and none of the alveoli of the lungs would be expanded yet. So they can rule that out fairly definitively. alveoli??? Huh, what the heck is that?

The big issue with changing the law is then it opens the door wide open for the abortion issue. If you're saying it's murder, even though the child never took a breath, then the pro-life would step in trying to force legislation changes based on that. You've now set a precedent for it being a legally alive without having taken a breath. It could change the threshold needed for those laws. So I imagine they don't want to open that ball of wax by charging her with murder.

But the attempted murder charge she did get should stick pretty well i'd guess. Heck, this is a time where i'd say a creative prosecuting attorney would be good. Charge her with everything they can to rack up additional years.

 

[Nordling]

Yeah, the whole "when is it life" nonsense. I only have one suggestion for law...prior to birth, the fetus is "human life" when the host, the mother says it is...and no one else shall have a say.

 

[KamikaziKitty]

Yeah, the whole "when is it life" nonsense. I only have one suggestion for law...prior to birth, the fetus is "human life" when the host, the mother says it is...and no one else shall have a say.

So agreed on so many levels. I don't think I can even add anything to it.

 

[Sevrin]

Yeah, the whole "when is it life" nonsense. I only have one suggestion for law...prior to birth, the fetus is "human life" when the host, the mother says it is...and no one else shall have a say.

How about 5 minutes before birth?

 

[Chamaeleon]

Yeah, the whole "when is it life" nonsense. I only have one suggestion for law...prior to birth, the fetus is "human life" when the host, the mother says it is...and no one else shall have a say.

Wait. What?? Why stop at birth? Host? Never thought of a womb being a hotel. :snooty:

 

[Poker_Babe]

Please read the Unborn Victims of Violence Act guys, it has a very clearly written clause in it excluding cases of medical abortion. I really don't think that Colorado going along with the Unborn Victims of Violence Act is going to pose any danger to Roe V. Wade.

Charging this crazy woman with murder won't bring Michelle Wilkin's baby back. As obviously premeditated as this was, the attacker is obviously out of her mind, and might not even be found guilty of attempted murder of the mother. I don't think this particular case is one anyone should want to use to broaden Colorado's law on killing a fetus. The danger that it might be used to charge mothers or doctors who abort late-term fetuses for legitimate medical reasons with murder is too great.

No it won't bring the baby back. But when does charging anyone with murder ever bring the dead victim back? That's not why we arrest people and charge them with murder. We put people in jail for murder for two main reasons, that's so the murderer won't be a danger to others and so the victims can have justice. It's also EXTREMELY HARD to be found not guilty by reason of insanity here in the States. Although I agree that this woman is mentally ill, that still doesn't mean she's insane (by a legal standard). For her to be found not guilty by insanity, they would have to prove that she didn't believe that she was committing a crime at the time of the act. All the prosecution would have to show was evidence of her trying to cover up what she did, and it's pretty much all over for her.

 

[Nordling]

Yeah, the whole "when is it life" nonsense. I only have one suggestion for law...prior to birth, the fetus is "human life" when the host, the mother says it is...and no one else shall have a say.

Wait. What?? Why stop at birth? Host? Never thought of a womb being a hotel. :snooty:

It's not. It's a womb, and the potential mother is a host of the contents of the womb when she's pregnant. Her womb is totally her possession, and her decision on how to define its contents is only hers.

 

[SexySteph]

Yeah, the whole "when is it life" nonsense. I only have one suggestion for law...prior to birth, the fetus is "human life" when the host, the mother says it is...and no one else shall have a say.

Wait. What?? Why stop at birth? Host? Never thought of a womb being a hotel. :snooty:

It's not. It's a womb, and the potential mother is a host of the contents of the womb when she's pregnant. Her womb is totally her possession, and her decision on how to define its contents is only hers.

 

[Remykins]

She should totally be charged with murder, whether the baby breathed or not, for the simple reason that it was not her baby and she took its life. I don't see why one would or could correlate it with abortion, even late term, because abortion is when the MOTHER consents to ending the babies life. This poor woman, went to get baby clothes, had the full intention of carrying to term and raising this child and it was quite literally ripped from her by a complete stranger. How anyone believe that this isn't murder is beyond me....

 

[VeronicaChaos]

Yeah, the whole "when is it life" nonsense. I only have one suggestion for law...prior to birth, the fetus is "human life" when the host, the mother says it is...and no one else shall have a say.

Wait. What?? Why stop at birth? Host? Never thought of a womb being a hotel. :snooty:

That's exactly how I view the womb, pretty much. Depending on where you're being grown, maybe it's a seedy shack off the interstate or a 5-star; hell, you might not survive (RIP, little Red Shirt; yes my uterus IS like the Shining and that was the only thing you learned about me).

My mother is a patient lady with fluffy white towels. That is why I love her, and why I don't deserve the love of lil' Red Shirt.

 

[JickyJuly]

It's murder. There's no other way to define it. Whether that baby breathed or not, the possibility of its life was taken. A hospital will try to save a baby if it is born after 24 weeks. This woman was past that part of her pregnancy. It was a viable life, and it was removed from everything it needed to remain that way. It's pretty horrible that the media tries to create political debate where there is no room for any. This situation has nothing to do with pro-life or pro-choice. A woman was attacked, and a baby that she carried for 7 months was stolen from her. A life that was about to begin was stolen. It's like comparing organ donation to having your liver cut out and waking up in a bathtub.

 

[Poker_Babe]

It's like comparing organ donation to having your liver cut out and waking up in a bathtub.

THAAAAAAAAAANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

I couldn't have put it any better myself.

ETA: (Although, I don't think it's possible for a person to wake up if they've had their liver cut out But I know what you meant. lol )

 

[JickyJuly]

:lol: I guess medical school isn't in my future. Hehehe.

The life of the baby aside, I think assaults like these should include charges for a second crime against her child as a measure to protect pregnant women. Just waddling to the bathroom in your 3rd trimester is like wading through quicksand in some sadistic game against the clock.