Who "protects" the users if something goes wrong?

[matthiaskiraly]

Hi!

I realize that my question/problem might not be popular here,

I think I can say I get along with the broadcasters on CB very good; got a lot of private shows saved, have my favorite rooms, etc. Never really had any problem about tokens paid/content provided.
Haven't been active for months, than returned and noticed some changes. That's also when I started to have some problems.
I usually ask for the same thing in private; nothing really special . Have to say, in my opinion the couples (only watching couples) have to know if they can actually do what they are advertising.

So to the point: (this happened about 4 times in 3 years): I tip, write a PM, ask the couple if they want to do a private. Answer is always yes; then we set the prize, talk about potential extras, finalize the deal - and that's when the problems start.
- More then once, an extra, which was set at a certain price is "suddenly" not available or costs more than agreed.
- The couple does whatever they want, but not what we agreed on
- They try, but it's not happening - I don't have any problem with the last one, no one is a machine, accidents happen, etc. No shame in that - usually these couples try to make it up to me, say they're sorry.

However

(This will likely be unpopular): in the last year I wrote to support 3 times about request no fulfilled, and partial refund.
All 3 mid-priced Colombian rooms)

In two occasions they promised a lot, than tried to stretch the time while private already started - in one occasion literally leaving the room for a couple of minutes, only to come back to laugh and doing whatever they wanted but certainly not what we agreed on.
I tried to remind them of the agreement, told then that I will talk to support - got BANNED from the room.,,,

The last time I took all kinds of precautions, asked everything 2-3 times, saved the transcript of the whole negotiation, set a minimum time limit
Well let's say they tried, but all I ended up seeing is a someone trying to force a half erect penis to somewhere where it certainly would not fit. For 10 minutes...
Waited till the end, told them simply that this was not the agreement and left the room.

Contacted CB support. Answer came surprisingly quick.

Laying all the blame on me...

So after a very long explanation, I am curious of your opinions about the matter. Hopefully I'm not breaking any rules with some quotes from the CB agent. If yes, please delete.

" all tipping on Chaturbate, including the per-minute payments made during a private show, is entirely voluntary and is done at your own risk. "

Ok, there's logic in there, a lawyers logic, but I accept that.

"You should refrain from engaging in token transactions that involve your sending tokens with the expectation that an independent broadcaster will provide or do anything, such as performing a specific act, as we are not in a position to enforce an independent broadcaster's faithful performance of such transactions. "

That one is a headscratcher for me - isn't this the base of how all camming sites work? Token transactions in exchange for performances? (The second part, enforcing things, I understand, can't be done)

In the case of a private show, the only service you should reasonably expect is that you are the only one able to communicate with the independent broadcaster as long as you choose to keep the private session going.

1, So a user makes a "deal" with the performer; pays upfront or by the minute and according to this, a performer is not required to do anything? In an extreme and unlikely case after receiving a payment or starting a private they can just sit trough a session without actually doing anything?

2, Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the system set up in a way (to protect performers) that once a private starts and the price and term are agreed upon, the system takes the tokens even if the user tries to leave? (I do not) If so, than the least part of the sentence does not make sense, since the user doesn't have a choice ("choose to keep the private session going").


Sorry for the very long post. Yes, it's partly about not getting what I paid for. But also gathering knowledge for future shows - what would someone do in these cases?

Support helped me with the previous issues, these quotes are from the last complaint and kind of tell me that as a user, there's absolutely no guarantee, no "protection" for me/us.

Once again, 95% of my Chaturbate experience is good

Thanks in advance for the answers (hopefully there will be some)

Have a good day/evening/night everyone!

 

[AmberCutie]

Hi!

I realize that my question/problem might not be popular here,

I think I can say I get along with the broadcasters on CB very good; got a lot of private shows saved, have my favorite rooms, etc. Never really had any problem about tokens paid/content provided.
Haven't been active for months, than returned and noticed some changes. That's also when I started to have some problems.
I usually ask for the same thing in private; nothing really special . Have to say, in my opinion the couples (only watching couples) have to know if they can actually do what they are advertising.

So to the point: (this happened about 4 times in 3 years): I tip, write a PM, ask the couple if they want to do a private. Answer is always yes; then we set the prize, talk about potential extras, finalize the deal - and that's when the problems start.
- More then once, an extra, which was set at a certain price is "suddenly" not available or costs more than agreed.
- The couple does whatever they want, but not what we agreed on
- They try, but it's not happening - I don't have any problem with the last one, no one is a machine, accidents happen, etc. No shame in that - usually these couples try to make it up to me, say they're sorry.

However

(This will likely be unpopular): in the last year I wrote to support 3 times about request no fulfilled, and partial refund.
All 3 mid-priced Colombian rooms)

In two occasions they promised a lot, than tried to stretch the time while private already started - in one occasion literally leaving the room for a couple of minutes, only to come back to laugh and doing whatever they wanted but certainly not what we agreed on.
I tried to remind them of the agreement, told then that I will talk to support - got BANNED from the room.,,,

The last time I took all kinds of precautions, asked everything 2-3 times, saved the transcript of the whole negotiation, set a minimum time limit
Well let's say they tried, but all I ended up seeing is a someone trying to force a half erect penis to somewhere where it certainly would not fit. For 10 minutes...
Waited till the end, told them simply that this was not the agreement and left the room.

Contacted CB support. Answer came surprisingly quick.

Laying all the blame on me...

So after a very long explanation, I am curious of your opinions about the matter. Hopefully I'm not breaking any rules with some quotes from the CB agent. If yes, please delete.

" all tipping on Chaturbate, including the per-minute payments made during a private show, is entirely voluntary and is done at your own risk. "

Ok, there's logic in there, a lawyers logic, but I accept that.

"You should refrain from engaging in token transactions that involve your sending tokens with the expectation that an independent broadcaster will provide or do anything, such as performing a specific act, as we are not in a position to enforce an independent broadcaster's faithful performance of such transactions. "

That one is a headscratcher for me - isn't this the base of how all camming sites work? Token transactions in exchange for performances? (The second part, enforcing things, I understand, can't be done)

In the case of a private show, the only service you should reasonably expect is that you are the only one able to communicate with the independent broadcaster as long as you choose to keep the private session going.

1, So a user makes a "deal" with the performer; pays upfront or by the minute and according to this, a performer is not required to do anything? In an extreme and unlikely case after receiving a payment or starting a private they can just sit trough a session without actually doing anything?

2, Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the system set up in a way (to protect performers) that once a private starts and the price and term are agreed upon, the system takes the tokens even if the user tries to leave? (I do not) If so, than the least part of the sentence does not make sense, since the user doesn't have a choice ("choose to keep the private session going").


Sorry for the very long post. Yes, it's partly about not getting what I paid for. But also gathering knowledge for future shows - what would someone do in these cases?

Support helped me with the previous issues, these quotes are from the last complaint and kind of tell me that as a user, there's absolutely no guarantee, no "protection" for me/us.

Once again, 95% of my Chaturbate experience is good

Thanks in advance for the answers (hopefully there will be some)

Have a good day/evening/night everyone!

I had trouble getting through it all since it's long but I can kinda get the picture.

Private shows are per minute. You enter a private show, and if a performer/couple are not giving what you want, end private and not many tokens are lost (only the ones at beggining of show.)

Tips on a token site are GIFTS, and can't actually be argued to be "for a performance" or any certain thing. So that's what the cam site will likely always come back and say.

It seems you're targeting rooms of people that are in areas known for scamming. I'd advise moving to more trusted rooms to make negotiations for the shows you want to see, and avoid those known for studios and scams. I might get some hate for saying this, but Colombia and EE areas are VERY notorious for being studio heavy areas, and even if the models are independent have learned their ways from greedy studios that train them to be very deceiving. If you do choose to participate with models from those areas, please spend some more time watching how the conduct their rooms before spending money.

 

[matthiaskiraly]

I had trouble getting through it all since it's long but I can kinda get the picture.

Private shows are per minute. You enter a private show, and if a performer/couple are not giving what you want, end private and not many tokens are lost (only the ones at beggining of show.)

Tips on a token site are GIFTS, and can't actually be argued to be "for a performance" or any certain thing. So that's what the cam site will likely always come back and say.

It seems you're targeting rooms of people that are in areas known for scamming. I'd advise moving to more trusted rooms to make negotiations for the shows you want to see, and avoid those known for studios and scams. I might get some hate for saying this, but Colombia and EE areas are VERY notorious for being studio heavy areas, and even if the models are independent have learned their ways from greedy studios that train them to be very deceiving. If you do choose to participate with models from those areas, please spend some more time watching how the conduct their rooms before spending money.

Thanks for the quick answer. Turn out I knew the exiting private rule wrong.
Hasn't really had a problem with EE rooms, like I said even with the others just lately. Will try to avoid some of them. Still feel that CB could do more though.

 

[inertvolcano]

1, So a user makes a "deal" with the performer; pays upfront or by the minute and according to this, a performer is not required to do anything? In an extreme and unlikely case after receiving a payment or starting a private they can just sit trough a session without actually doing anything?

Unfortunately yes. The thing to remember is that tip menus and all that are just addons. At its core, CB is a site where you are tipping models to show your appreciate for them. It's rare but some models still run on this system as it was originally devised - they do a show, and the expectation is you tip them if you enjoyed it, and that's it. Tip menus and goals shows are things that have been developed by models on top of that as, lets be fair, the majority of members are happy to watch a free show and not give a single token. But that system is all a part of the social contract and aren't actually a formal part of what CB is doing or enforcing.

2, Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the system set up in a way (to protect performers) that once a private starts and the price and term are agreed upon, the system takes the tokens even if the user tries to leave? (I do not) If so, than the least part of the sentence does not make sense, since the user doesn't have a choice ("choose to keep the private session going").

If the model has a minimum number of minutes set for a private, and you leave early, you will get charged to meet the minimum. So if they have a 10 minute private minimum and you leave after 1 minute, you still get charged for 10. That sucks and is unfair if, like you described, the performers just walk away from the private. I've known CB to give refunds in cases like this before but their support has always been shitty and inconsistent so unfortunately it can't be relied on. And be warned that I've heard if you ask for refunds too often they keep track of that and will just ban you for being a pain in their ass, so be careful.

CB is my main site and I go primarily to Colombian models, and I haven't been scammed once (well I was once but it was a long time ago and an American model). I'm not sure how you're approaching it now, but you may need to treat it more like building a relationship where you start from zero/low trust and stick with menu items in the public chat, light socializing with the performers, and read the energy of the room before jumping into more expensive transactions. That is what I do and if something is off I bounce like:

- The performer is pushy and starts asking for privates immediately.
- The performer doesn't have consistent token prices or changes them on the fly.
- The performer doesn't notice or perform tip menu items.
- The performer doesn't have any regulars at all (this last one isn't a hard rule but having at least one or two regulars is a good sign they get repeat customers.)

Eventually I reached a point where I have a bunch of different models I follow that I trust enough to not rip me off to and to respect my wishes in a private, and remember that most models want your repeat business. They want you happy and they want you to come back (as long as you're polite.) Performers running these shitty scammy operations are undermining their business in the long run.

Also if you're cruising the New tag or the 6 token private section, you may want to try sticking with bigger, more established rooms. You have to pay more but the risk of a bad experience is much less. Good luck. I hope you have better experiences in the future.

 

[matthiaskiraly]

Unfortunately yes. The thing to remember is that tip menus and all that are just addons. At its core, CB is a site where you are tipping models to show your appreciate for them. It's rare but some models still run on this system as it was originally devised - they do a show, and the expectation is you tip them if you enjoyed it, and that's it. Tip menus and goals shows are things that have been developed by models on top of that as, lets be fair, the majority of members are happy to watch a free show and not give a single token. But that system is all a part of the social contract and aren't actually a formal part of what CB is doing or enforcing.



If the model has a minimum number of minutes set for a private, and you leave early, you will get charged to meet the minimum. So if they have a 10 minute private minimum and you leave after 1 minute, you still get charged for 10. That sucks and is unfair if, like you described, the performers just walk away from the private. I've known CB to give refunds in cases like this before but their support has always been shitty and inconsistent so unfortunately it can't be relied on. And be warned that I've heard if you ask for refunds too often they keep track of that and will just ban you for being a pain in their ass, so be careful.

CB is my main site and I go primarily to Colombian models, and I haven't been scammed once (well I was once but it was a long time ago and an American model). I'm not sure how you're approaching it now, but you may need to treat it more like building a relationship where you start from zero/low trust and stick with menu items in the public chat, light socializing with the performers, and read the energy of the room before jumping into more expensive transactions. That is what I do and if something is off I bounce like:

- The performer is pushy and starts asking for privates immediately.
- The performer doesn't have consistent token prices or changes them on the fly.
- The performer doesn't notice or perform tip menu items.
- The performer doesn't have any regulars at all (this last one isn't a hard rule but having at least one or two regulars is a good sign they get repeat customers.)

Eventually I reached a point where I have a bunch of different models I follow that I trust enough to not rip me off to and to respect my wishes in a private, and remember that most models want your repeat business. They want you happy and they want you to come back (as long as you're polite.) Performers running these shitty scammy operations are undermining their business in the long run.

Also if you're cruising the New tag or the 6 token private section, you may want to try sticking with bigger, more established rooms. You have to pay more but the risk of a bad experience is much less. Good luck. I hope you have better experiences in the future.

Hi!
Your answered most what I needed to know, thanks.

If the model has a minimum number of minutes set for a private, and you leave early, you will get charged to meet the minimum

That's how I knew it too, so actually wasn't mistaken and that is one thing the agent wrote wrong. ( The system is good, have no problem with it unless like the case I was talking about)

The first paragraph explains the pvt/addons thing better than CB-s own rules, so thanks for that!

I am checking the "new" rooms, but not the tagged ones, only the green labels - I think those are mostly the rooms where the users try to take advantage of the new
performers; but also a lot of time where the "magic" happens. (The roommates who made it to reddit and a bunch of other sites with their story - 5000 tkn goals were met literally in a couple of seconds ))

Lastly, the advertised token per minute. I don't go below the 30-42 limit; but these are the ones in my experience where most of the extra charge and such happens.

Thanks again for both of you for your time and insightful answers.