Who are you voting for?

[LuckySmiles]

@altern8 I believe it. He says ridiculous things.

@Ms_Diane I'm not sure he's the only one to mention it, but he's been seemingly the only one to suggest anything other then welcoming everybody with open arms, no questions asked. He definitely plays into peoples fears with the way he goes about it, but.. idk.. I think it's more of a cause of concern than people realize.

My guess is he's exaggerating to get people thinking about it and distancing himself from candidates who take a less firm position. Hillary will let us perish he's gonna save the world etc etc. it's part of his schtick but I can also see it as it relates to the real issues. I guess he's pandering to those not looking as deep into things. But in fairness, most Americans aren't up on all the issues. So he doesn't seem to take it past Terrorism bad! America good!

 

[Osmia]

I'm not so convinced it's going to be that clear this election. I've talked to some people, who talked to some people, in some very unofficial friend polling. There are many who are traditionally very liberal that are planning on voting Trump back in my homestate of NY. NY has not voted Republican in the Presidential race since Reagan....

I think a lot of people are just so fed up that they are willing to try anything to shake up the system, seemingly without realizing the damage that could be done. Trump might make George W. Bush look like Abraham Lincoln and FDR rolled into one.Or he might not. Maybe he would govern well and wisely. I think the chances of a good outcome are considerably less likely than a bad outcome, and IMO the downside risk is just too great to try it.

Here's a good article, published yesterday, on Trump's changing positions on various issues, leading off with the Muslim ban. It's documented by quotes and dates. Warning: as you might expect, it's a very long list.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/201...p-s-rapidly-changing-policy-positions-n547801

 

[Osmia]

Another thing: one of Trump's themes that he constantly harps on is crime. Yet, crime rates have fallen under Obama; see https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-1

I kind of doubt that Obama had much to do with this. Still, by any objective measure, people are safer now than a few years ago. Terrorist acts have increased a bit, but the numbers are very small.

I found that FBI resource here: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dr...ends-obama-administration—and-2-terrible-ones
There's a list, with sources, of 18 important trends (including immigration) that have improved under Obama, and two that have gotten worse. My intent is not to give credit to Obama (because he probably didn't have much to do with these changes) but to counter Trump's false, fear-mongering narrative that crime is rampant, things are out of control, the country has gone off the rails, etc.

 

[Lili_xo]

Joined this thread rather late so a lot has been written already.
I also feel that is pointless to try to convince anyone about communism and reality of how it works ( or rather - how it does NOT )
So if I have to explain that in a thread where majority is for Communist Bernie then I am like..what can I say? Does anyone know what he stands for and that he thinks Venezuela is a great example?
anyway...
So my post is just this.

 

[JickyJuly]

It's pretty awesome that we made it almost 10 pages without someone uninformed calling Bernie a communist. So close. Hehehe.

 

[Mila_]

Joined this thread rather late so a lot has been written already.
I also feel that is pointless to try to convince anyone about communism and reality of how it works ( or rather - how it does NOT )
So if I have to explain that in a thread where majority is for Communist Bernie then I am like..what can I say? Does anyone know what he stands for and that he thinks Venezuela is a great example?
anyway...View attachment 64572
So my post is just this.

Only you and I see this and everyone else will call us crazy because only you and I have survived communism and we detect them from miles away.

Did you guys know Chavez swore on every interview he was a capitalist and wasnt a socialist? In 1998 in Venezuela socialis had a prettg bad rep. He even said Castro was a dictator and he didnt have ties with him. That is how socialists dupe their country into voting them. It took 6 years for Chavez to start calling himself a socialist, only after he had secured his grip on the country by reforming the constitution, reforming the voting process, seizing the organism that counts the votes, and dismissing all the judges that opposed him.

 

[JoleneBrody]

In short No. He's referring to refugees being allowed into America en masse. Look up what's happening in Europe from the increase in acceptance of migrants in the last couple years as we started discussing here.

He is not referring to the random world citizen, businessman, doctor etc. who happens to be Muslim and wants to come to the USA voluntarily. He is referring to the large groups of displaced migrants being shuffled into countries, by the 1000's, that potentially already have beef with Western culture and foreign policy. There are nearly 5 million displaced right now from the Syrian conflict alone.

Many people don't want the US to start resembling the current crisis in Europe. Trump overhypes everything, but he's the only candidate to even touch the topic.

Do you have a link or official citing to back up this claim? Because I've yet to hear him break it down this way... in fact he used the words "complete and total shutdown of Muslims entering the United States"
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/dona...e-shutdown-muslims-entering/story?id=35631255

So... He didn't mean the words he used?

Edit. Eep I replied before reading further I do see now where someone made a link to a revision Though it really did not read the way you described it at all. The total and complete, is still on his official site. https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-...mp-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration

I'll leave my post though because I still think it holds a lot of value. Having a president who just blurts out whatever the fuck his brain randomly is thinking at that very second is beyond dangerous. Especially when that blurter is an megalomaniac asshole

 

[Mila_]

Do you have a link or official citing to back up this claim? Because I've yet to hear him break it down this way... in fact he used the words "complete and total shutdown of Muslims entering the United States"
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/dona...e-shutdown-muslims-entering/story?id=35631255

So... He didn't mean the words he used?

Edit. Eep I replied before reading further I do see now where someone made a link to a revision Though it really did not read the way you described it at all. The total and complete, is still on his official site. https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-...mp-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration

Yeah I gave @LuckySmiles a "disagree" because Trump doesn't just want to stop massive "refugee" immigration, he wants to put a moratorium on all muslims entering the US from the Middle East (and recently he even added "countries compromised by terrorism" which he said includes France, Belgium and Germany) until the US can figure out how to vet them properly.

His position is actually more extreme than it was at the beginning but the words he is using are softer. So it looks like he "revised" his position and is backpedaling when in reality he is doing the opposite. At the beginning he only wanted to put the ban on muslims coming from muslim countries, but now he is also adding European countries with terrorist cells.

I wish someone in Europe would do this, but the EU would have to be disbanded first. So each country gets their borders back and can protect them and control them to protect their citizens from harm.

Truth is there aren't records for most of these people because the countries they come from don't keep them. Many of them even have access to fake passports like we have seen in Europe, thousands of supposed refugees weren't refugees and didn't come from Syria, they just got a fake or stolen syrian passport. Until the US figures out how to vet these people letting them in is too big of a risk.

 

[Lili_xo]

Only you and I see this and everyone else will call us crazy because only you and I have survived communism and we detect them from miles away.
.

It is weird. I am American and never told anyone here that I survived communism. Well I did . Long story. How u figured this one out have no idea but it does not surprise me either cause the things u write are often very intuitive.
I know more about it - communism- than many and this stuff always looks same and is under different names of course and slogans. It can be under democratic socialist or republican patriot or republican democrat or capitalistic socialist rebel soldier. I really don't know what the name is but it looks very communistic to me.
With sadness I have to say that some of the best people I know fell for Bernie. My very best friend whom I love and has always been there for me and is one of the most giving people I know - also fell fir Bernie. And often is the very good people these leaders draw in and manipulate these qualities and naïveté. I hate communism for that. I hate the lies they put out there and the bullshit slogans and things that in the end do not make sense if u try to apply it in real life.

 

[Guy]

It is weird. I am American and never told anyone here that I survived communism. Well I did . Long story. How u figured this one out have no idea but it does not surprise me either cause the things u write are often very intuitive.
I know more about it - communism- than many and this stuff always looks same and is under different names of course and slogans. It can be under democratic socialist or republican patriot or republican democrat or capitalistic socialist rebel soldier. I really don't know what the name is but it looks very communistic to me.
With sadness I have to say that some of the best people I know fell for Bernie. My very best friend whom I love and has always been there for me and is one of the most giving people I know - also fell fir Bernie. And often is the very good people these leaders draw in and manipulate these qualities and naïveté. I hate communism for that. I hate the lies they put out there and the bullshit slogans and things that in the end do not make sense if u try to apply it in real life.

I voted for Bernie. How is he a communist?

 

[Lili_xo]

It is really hard to explain. I study and study this stuff and watch read all I can and I still cannot grasp it.i cannot find the exact key the one answer there all telling sign. There are many signs and mostly is like...it is a lie. I think is because communism is evil and evil changes form the moment u try to know it. Is based on lie and in the end does not make any sense. Like for example what Bennie said in this video.
i am really sorry if I cannot come up with better example or write more - I really believe is impossible to make people see it until they experience. When they do experience is of course too late.
There is no logic ok? Is a pond pretending to be ocean.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

So many evils. So many things to be concerned about. Thousands of years of history do not lie.

It is high time we officially declare a War on Humanity.

 

[Guy]

It is really hard to explain. I study and study this stuff and watch read all I can and I still cannot grasp it.i cannot find the exact key the one answer there all telling sign. There are many signs and mostly is like...it is a lie. I think is because communism is evil and evil changes form the moment u try to know it. Is based on lie and in the end does not make any sense. Like for example what Bennie said in this video.
i am really sorry if I cannot come up with better example or write more - I really believe is impossible to make people see it until they experience. When they do experience is of course too late.
There is no logic ok? Is a pond pretending to be ocean.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...een-a-communist-and-a-socialist-a6708086.html

 

[Mila_]

I voted for Bernie. How is he a communist?

There are many "red flags". Bernie Sanders has a lot of troubling videos like the one @Lunella posted which are quite telling, but even if he had said everywhere that he is a capitalist and for the free market, I would know better. The content of what he says is not the main reason I know he is a communist.

All communists use similar tactics, it's like they come from the same "school" so to speak. And most of the time they do, because the people behind their campaigns is the same. Take Bernie, for example, remember the "little bird" on his speech? This scene:



Bernie Sanders: now you see, this little bird doesn't know it... I think, I think, that maybe there is some symbolism here... I know it doesn't look like but that bird is actually a dove asking us for world peace. No more wars!

Crowd goes wild! The bird stood on his podium! It is a sign! this guy is Jesus! He will help us! It is destiny!

Okay now take a look at how Chavez' succesor, Maduro, used the exact same symbol to win over the Venezuelan people after Chavez' death a couple of years prior:



It is in Spanish but I will translate it for you:

Nicolás Maduro: I was in a small chapel, by myself, and I was praying and remembering him [Chavez] because there was a big picture of him in there next to a small statue of José Gregorio Hernández [venezuelan saint] and of Christ, and all of the sudden, a tiny little bird flew in, and he flew in circles over my head three times, he landed next to me on the wooden podium, and started singing. It was a beautiful song, so I stare at the little bird and whistled back. –If you whistle, I whistle, I thought– So I whistled, the tiny bird stared at me weird, he sang again, flew over my head again, and left. And I felt his spirit [Chavez' spirit] I felt like he was giving us a blessing through the bird. Telling us: "today the battle begins, go towards victory because you have my blessing". That is how I felt it in my soul.

So you see how this feels so eerie. I don't have proof and it is only my trained eye, but I don't think this is a coincidence. I do not believe Maduro's bird story happened and I find it difficult for a tiny bird to fly into the middle of a crowded stadium to stand on a podium next to Bernie Sanders like he was a trained bird and there was some food in there. What are the odds? I know in my heart both were staged. And I know it is very likely that it was staged by the same people. It is as if they are re-using tricks that worked for them in the past somewhere else.

 

[Bocefish]

Pelosi strikes again...



Only in California could this dingbat still be in office. She's a prime example of why there should be term limits on the money-grubbing career politicians.

"God, being the woman's right to choose...." WTF!??

 

[Bocefish]

The same people that were screaming about Obama not having enough experience as a politician to be president are now praising Trump for being an outsider with no political experience....

Yep, I was one of those guys... but my gripe was his zero experience in any real world leadership positions whereas Trump's vast record on leadership positions, along with his lack of political (anti-establishment) experience is what people seem to favor so much about him. Yes, Trump has also screwed up on some of his enterprises, but it wouldn't be real-world experience if he didn't learn from those as well. .02

 

[JoleneBrody]

Yep, I was one of those guys... but my gripe was his zero experience in any real world leadership positions whereas Trump's vast record on leadership positions, along with his lack of political (anti-establishment) experience is what people seem to favor so much about him. Yes, Trump has also screwed up on some of his enterprises, but it wouldn't be real-world experience if he didn't learn from those as well. .02

C'mon now...
Trump has screwed up and screwed over more than just some... and he doesn't even seem to know which is which. He set up a whole damn display table to argue against Romney's claims that he isn't a good business man, covered in "examples" of his prominent business stature... that were all either failures, not actually his or no longer in existence. What an embarrassing display.
And it took a Satire News Show to call it out...


Now there is no denying that he is rich, he made a lot of money in real estate but he is not the ultra successful business leader even he seems to think he is.

 

[SexySteph]

Bernie Sanders: now you see, this little bird doesn't know it... I think, I think, that maybe there is some symbolism here... I know it doesn't look like but that bird is actually a dove asking us for world peace. No more wars!

Crowd goes wild! The bird stood on his podium! It is a sign! this guy is Jesus! He will help us! It is destiny!

The crowd didn't go wild because we're all so brain washed we think its a sign from the universe that he is the savior or anything like that. It was just a sweet moment and a metaphor for what we want, no more pain in the world, peace, etc

How does this demonstrate that he's a communist? You truly believe that Bernie is such a malicious, conniving con man that he had a bird trained to fly onto his podium so that his followers would see it as a sign?

 

[Osmia]

I voted for Bernie. How is he a communist?

Guy, don't you know?.. A communist is anyone to the left of whichever faction is in charge of the GOP at a given time.

General comment: Sanders is a democratic socialist, and as far I can tell the only one in Congress right now. Ronald Dellums was another open dem soc in Congress in the 80s and 90s. He had quite a career there, a lot of impact for someone on the ideological fringe. I just looked him up in Wikipedia, and was surprised to see that several prominent members of Congress spoke in honor of him upon his retirement, including [drum roll] Tom DeLay, one of the most partisan Republicans ever--see quote below. I find it really sad that the idea of such a bipartisan tribute seems quaint, like it's from another era. It is. And it was only 20 years ago.

In short, the US Congress, and the country, can survive having a true leftist every now and then.

Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay described Dellums as "...one of the most giving, open and stalwart, a real stalwart man when he was Chairman"

We are losing one of its finest Members, a Member that I have great respect for, because he always did his homework, was so articulate and eloquent on this floor.

He always got my attention when he stood up and took the microphone. He would stop every Member in their tracks to hear what he had to say, and there are very few Members that have served in this body that can claim the respect that both sides of the aisle had for the gentleman from California. And the incredible reputation that the gentleman from California has brought to this House; he has elevated this House. He has elevated the distinction of this House by serving here, and this House will greatly miss him when he leaves.[38]

 

[Bocefish]

Now there is no denying that he is rich, he made a lot of money in real estate but he is not the ultra successful business leader even he seems to think he is.

LOL, there's no doubt he's way more of a legend in his own mind than in reality... but given the realistic options available, I'd rather take my chances on possible improvement than the status quo. .02

 

[n_i_c_u]

Trump has said a lot of dumb things, which is undeniable. It almost seems like he doesn't employ speechwriters at times, which I dig. I think the script in his mind is more of what he wants to say than anything anyone he is employing or the Republicans surrounding him can offer (we saw what happened with his wife when she used dumb speech writers). I worry that if he got caught up in the Party Machine and did have people script his words, it might come out like that lovey dovey like Bill Clinton talking about the person he married at the DNC (which was funny--I do believe there is love there, but it's just awkward to hear given the years of weirdness), or worse yet, Trump might tell us everything we want to hear in order to get elected. I admire his perspective because I don't think he gives a shit about appeasing his party, and it seems more honest...which for voting in politics is a strange thing for me.

I think if he doesn't get elected Donald will do whatever he wants anyway. It might help his ego to be elected, but, when he loses, it's not life shattering and I think people realize this. Clinton has been gunning for this for far too long. It seems like she will employ her people to create words to say or do anything to get her into the White House. Clinton's detachment from what everyday average people do is what worries me, cause she's been in politics a really long time and I don't know if she can relate to paying bills and stuff.

I voted green during Bush/Gore and Bush/Kerry (I got yelled at by a college professor when I told him cause I think he liked Gore). I voted for Obama twice believing "Change" will soon come --and we got health care sooo, so I guess he did change something.

 

[Ms_Diane]

LOL, there's no doubt he's way more of a legend in his own mind than in reality... but given the realistic options available, I'd rather take my chances on possible improvement than the status quo. .02

Do you really think he will improve things? Honest question. I totally get that Hillary is status quo and this is a very unpalatable option.

Clinton's detachment from what everyday average people do is what worries me, cause she's been in politics a really long time and I don't know if she can relate to paying bills and stuff.

But Trump does not really live in the reality of everyday average folks either. No?

 

[JoleneBrody]

LOL, there's no doubt he's way more of a legend in his own mind than in reality... but given the realistic options available, I'd rather take my chances on possible improvement than the status quo. .02

I appreciate you seeing the humor in the pretty funny reality regardless of your side. If it wasn't for laughing at this shit I think I would be crazy right now!

 

[Osmia]

New developments in Trump's faux pas yesterday (inviting the Russians to hack computers in the US in order to retrieve The Missing Emails). It was a joke!

Whew! What a relief!

This article goes into exhaustive detail, with chronology and sources, looking at Trump's and his campaign's ever-evolving explanations, showing that No, it wasn't a joke.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-comments-just-kidding/?tid=pm_politics_pop_b

 

[n_i_c_u]

And forgot to edit another cool "change" in there: Weed is legal in some states now, and medicinal weed is legal in a lot more...so that is cool (my brother had to go thru chemo due tocancer on his eye without any good stuff and my mom could have used some during her mastectomy way back when I was a kid). Nice to see a politician like Obama that smoked weed growing up admitting it and letting stuff go.

 

[Bocefish]

Do you really think he will improve things? Honest question. I totally get that Hillary is status quo and this is a very unpalatable option.

To put things simply... the mere fact he's mostly using his own money tells me he is sincerely motivated to help change things for the better.

I agree that he's a rather difficult option to swallow.

Obama ran on hope & change along with with a slew of lies, showed little-to-no-leadership both here and abroad throughout his eight years.

The simple facts are that the middle and lower class are worse off now with millions more depending on food stamps to help them get by, not to mention our national debt is nearing crisis mode. More of the same just doesn't bode well, not to mention all the Clinton lies, scandals, her believing it's HER turn to be POTUS and thinking she's above the law all factor into it. .02

 

[n_i_c_u]

But Trump does not really live in the reality of everyday average folks either. No?

Yeah, I guess Donald is pretty secluded from the common person (I'm never gonna shake his hand or be able to say hello, not that I would want to). I do think he has to buy his own food and housing and stuff and be responsible in his decisions when addressing the bills, like me and you--all the people in the country/state aren't paying his salary in order for him to live a good life--just those he currently employs.

 

[Bocefish]

New developments in Trump's faux pas yesterday (inviting the Russians to hack computers in the US in order to retrieve The Missing Emails). It was a joke!

Whew! What a relief!

This article goes into exhaustive detail, with chronology and sources, looking at Trump's and his campaign's ever-evolving explanations, showing that No, it wasn't a joke.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-comments-just-kidding/?tid=pm_politics_pop_b

The article goes into exhaustive details?

Ha, if you couldn't tell the Russia thing was tongue-n-cheek, I've got some Trump hair cream to sell ya.

 

[Behemoth]

One of the more ridiculous things I've seen posted at this forum ever.

Well, glad you had an argument to back that up, and weren't just saying that without making an attempt to even justify why.

In fact, that seems a running theme. Folks seem to substitute CALLING something ridiculous for actually making an argument why it is. How curious.

 

[Bocefish]

Well, glad you had an argument to back that up, and weren't just saying that without making an attempt to even justify why.

In fact, that seems a running theme. Folks seem to substitute CALLING something ridiculous for actually making an argument why it is. How curious.

Facts don't "seem" to be one way or another, that's why they're called FACTS. In fact, CALLING something ridiculous is an opinion, but I'm sure you'll find a way to ARGUE that too. Your ongoing theme SEEMS to matter more about the argument jousting than anything else.