Who are you voting for?

[JoleneBrody]

Support him or not, but denying he acts erratic and irrational pretty often seems like arguing that the sky is blue.

Or he "shoots from the hip" as many supporters would rather put it.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Just remember to not view the streaming or any of the photos when you are there.

Those work just fine with a VPN too.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Support him or not, but denying he acts erratic and irrational pretty often seems like arguing that the sky is blue.

Or he "shoots from the hip" as many supporters would rather put it.

The problem is I think Hillary is worse, she's just better at lying about it all for now.

 

[Guy]

Those work just fine with a VPN too.

I know. I meant that you should not view the adult content on MFC at Starbucks.

 

[Nordling]

Key phrase: "I think...." People started hating Hillary before she even did anything...while she was still a governor's wife. It's "Hillary Derangement Syndrome." Some people seem to take an instant dislike to strong women...which we should all try to stop. Hillary is totally qualified, to spurn her for an insane snake oil salesman just seems a little crazy itself. Remember, we're electing a candidate for President, not a plush toy.

 

[JoleneBrody]

The problem is I think Hillary is worse, she's just better at lying about it all for now.

That's the go to argument for trump these days, so I knew the majority of his supporters were aware of his concerning behaviors. I just wonder how many can he keep stacking up before his blatant issues "trump" the issues you think Hilary might be hiding? Because they have been stacking pretty fast lately.

It still blows my mind that people would support someone shoving shit in their face over someone they think might shove shit in their face twice as hard but aren't 100% sure that double shit pie even exists.

Only one direction guarantees that you will for sure have shit on your face.

 

[Osmia]

Erratic and irrational ? I wonder how he runs so many businesses successfully and wins nominations by being erratic and irrational.
Well I think he is brilliant..

Have you been keeping up with the news, at all?

 

[Nordling]

I guess bankrupting multiple companies counts as "successful business practice" these days.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I just wonder how many can he keep stacking up before his blatant issues "trump" the issues you think Hilary might be hiding?

To be fair, I also don't like most other things Hillary publicly stands for. I don't like many of the decisions she's voted for. I don't like any of the possible candidates she would nominate for Supreme Court. Not a fan of her stance on gun control, the economy, health care... So it's not just the hidden ones. I believe even with all of Trumps bullshit he's still the lesser of two evils.

 

[Osmia]

...."Hillary Derangement Syndrome." Some people seem to take an instant dislike to strong women...

I had been meaning to write something along those lines, but hadn't worked my courage up yet ;-) Anytime you invoke racism or sexism, the right wing goes crazy.

I really do think there is an element of misogyny here. The intensity of dislike toward Hillary Clinton reminds me of the irrational hatred we've seen toward Obama (who just happens to be another type of minority). It just seems disproportionate to the reality of the situation, of the people involved. I just don't remember anything similar with George W. Bush, who was intensely disliked by the left (including me), but it was really more a dislike of his decisions and governing philosophy. It wasn't personal. With Clinton and Obama, given the emotional energy it produces, it seems very personal.

 

[JoleneBrody]

To be fair, I also don't like most other things Hillary does publicly stand for. I don't like many of the decisions she's voted for. I don't like any of the possible candidates she would nominate for Supreme Court. Not a fan of her stance on gun control, the economy, health care... So it's not just the hidden ones. I believe even with all of Trumps bullshit he's still the lesser of two evils.

I find it odd to call simple political policy "evil" but I see what your saying. You would rather your party win even if that means a racist sexist bigoted melting creamsicle stuffed with cow manure that 99% of the world hates is elected as president and represents America, your beautiful country as official spokesperson to the rest of the worlds leaders... With his face mouth! (I just explained that I understood your stance while simultaneously explaining mine before my second cup of coffee and I'm a tad proud of me )

As a strong fence walker (not a demy or a pubby) that makes my head spin.
Considering trump is HELLA unclear on his actual policies or plans... My head spins even more.

 

[JoleneBrody]

I guess bankrupting multiple companies counts as "successful business practice" these days.

With only a "small" Loan of a million dollars... Which is actually more like $6.7 million dollars considering that was in roughly 1970.

 

[Osmia]

....As a strong fence walker (not a demy or a pubby) that makes my head spin.
Considering trump is HELLA unclear on his actual policies or plans... My head spins even more.

Trump's support has never been about his policies, since he really doesn't have any, in any normal, conventional sense. And besides, when he doesn't even know that Russia annexed Crimea or that Russia has been in Ukraine for several years, does it really matter what his policy is?

Trump's support is based on his persona, his cult of personality, that a lot of (white) people seem to identify with.

 

[LuckySmiles]

Hillary Clinton is more worrisome regarding Internet limitations in business.
What'd Trump do? I've been busy lol. He's been in tabloids since I was a small child. I doubt he's in it for the fame.

Distancing himself from Bloomberg is duh. Bloomberg sucks,12 year mayor of NYC that no one seemed to like but somehow bought a 3rd term, forever associated with trying to ban soda, $14 cigarettes, and frequent defender of "stop and frisk."

The Kahn family thing is kind of idk wtf... they were at the DNC to go after Trump,and he basically was like eff you guys. Not very tactful but.. since when has he been. His strategy has always included never apologizing/apologies seem weak. Agree with it or not it's the main reason he's made it this far. The second you apologize media attacks harder.
Hillary Clinton strategy only seems smarter in this instance to ignore the Benghazi's mom appearance at the RNC since that would remind everybody what she did. And it'd be a wrapppp.

Obama mentioning Trump in his speech yesterday is very wtf though. Maybe he's really interested in that Supreme Court seat under Hillary. Member when they hated eachother... I liked that Obama better, it was a simpler happier time lol
But she's still using the same tactics and Obama to me even seemed a bit more like Trump back then.

The current outrage feels selectively angry since Hillary considers family of Benghazi soldier's liars, who's deaths she's never been held accountable for so...

Election Prediction: Drama drama More drama and no one cares by next week.

 

[mynameisbob84]

That's the go to argument for trump these days, so I knew the majority of his supporters were aware of his concerning behaviors. I just wonder how many can he keep stacking up before his blatant issues "trump" the issues you think Hilary might be hiding? Because they have been stacking pretty fast lately.

It still blows my mind that people would support someone shoving shit in their face over someone they think might shove shit in their face twice as hard but aren't 100% sure that double shit pie even exists.

Only one direction guarantees that you will for sure have shit on your face.

Watching this whole election cycle unfold from the outside has been... I mean... it's been interesting (and perversely comforting in light of my own country's fuck-ups and uncertain future) but this has not been a good year for democracy. You'd think that a chauvinistic, morally repugnant, racist, narcissistic, hypocritical, sexist, superficial, fear-mongering, wealth-lauding, Cheeto-dusted bloviator wouldn't stand a chance in a presidential race... but then you read about his competitor and recoil in horror as you realise that she might be an even worse candidate from an ethical standpoint. I think it speaks volumes that once you weed out the racists, you're left with millions of people whose most compelling reason to vote for their chosen candidate is that they are (probably, maybe... hopefully?) not quite as terrible a choice as the alternative.

 

[Nordling]

Most, if not all of the horrid things you hear about Hillary are things that are pulled directly out of the ass of Fox, Breitbart, Drudge, etc...people who have an axe to grind and believe that lies are perfectly fine.

 

[JoleneBrody]

Watching this whole election cycle unfold from the outside has been... I mean... it's been interesting (and perversely comforting in light of my own country's fuck-ups and uncertain future) but this has not been a good year for democracy. You'd think that a chauvinistic, morally repugnant, racist, narcissistic, hypocritical, sexist, superficial, fear-mongering, wealth-lauding, Cheeto-dusted bloviator wouldn't stand a chance in a presidential race... but then you read about his competitor and recoil in horror as you realise that she might be an even worse candidate from an ethical standpoint. I think it speaks volumes that once you weed out the racists, you're left with millions of people whose most compelling reason to vote for their chosen candidate is that they are (probably, maybe... hopefully?) not quite as terrible a choice as the alternative.

It's depressing to say the least.

 

[Osmia]

Watching this whole election cycle unfold from the outside has been... I mean... it's been interesting (and perversely comforting in light of my own country's fuck-ups and uncertain future) but this has not been a good year for democracy. You'd think that a chauvinistic, morally repugnant, racist, narcissistic, hypocritical, sexist, superficial, fear-mongering, wealth-lauding, Cheeto-dusted bloviator wouldn't stand a chance in a presidential race... but then you read about his competitor and recoil in horror as you realise that she might be an even worse candidate from an ethical standpoint. I think it speaks volumes that once you weed out the racists, you're left with millions of people whose most compelling reason to vote for their chosen candidate is that they are (probably, maybe... hopefully?) not quite as terrible a choice as the alternative.

One of my favorite political bloggers, Josh Marshall, had this to say about the danger to democracy:

The kind of scenario I fear is one (just one of many hypotheticals) in which Trump unsettles or junks the NATO alliance, which drives threatened European states to take a more belligerent and aggressive stand toward Russia. Or perhaps Putin thinks he's got a greenlight and makes some reckless move. The pressure for a response will be overwhelming. There are many stakeholders in the American security posture in Europe beyond the US president. Or maybe Trump's primal reaction to being dominated kicks in and he does something stupid in retaliation against Putin. It all comes back to what I wrote a few weeks ago. The largely peaceful and prosperous world we live in is not the natural order of things. It can all come apart very quickly. And once it does it can be extremely hard to put back together, to reassemble the mechanisms and norms and virtuous cycles on which the kind of world we live in is based.

This may all sound like a jumble of hypotheticals but remember Trump is dumb, impulsive and corrupt - and if not personally corrupt surrounded by advisors who live in the dark post-Soviet world of big cash and slow war. The quiescence of Europe rests on many things but one of them is a highly predictable set of actions both sides will take under certain circumstances. Uncertainty is dangerous for all concerned.

It bears repeating: the relative peace and prosperity and democracy we enjoy now is not the natural state of things. Europeans know this better than Americans, but even they are elevating authoritarian figures. Democracy and peace are precarious, sustained by generations of institution building, treaties and other international agreements, effective military deterrence, and last but not least, politicians and their supporters adhering to norms of political behavior so that change is constructive rather than destructive.

 

[AmberCutie]

I finally decided.

 

[LuckySmiles]

I just don't remember anything similar with George W. Bush, who was intensely disliked by the left (including me), but it was really more a dislike of his decisions and governing philosophy. It wasn't personal. With Clinton and Obama, given the emotional energy it produces, it seems very personal.

Completely Disagree. Equal opportunity hater over here. hah. Was extremely happy to have any president except Bush. Everyone in college hated Bush. Everyone was pissed about the bullshit war in Iraq that had nothing to do with 9/11, and seemed to be about his daddy. Everyone was pissed about the Patriot Act. Bush/Cheney were pretty universally hated among most people I knew.

Had as much hope in Obama as everybody else. Disappointed. I wanted this Obama:


But then again I don't really like Jay Z anymore either. (Even had that midi ringtone on a flip phone whaat)
Can't stand Hillary for a multitude of reasons mainly political(But also know people who've met her).
Obama never liked her and she didn't like him. It's all so so phony and ridiculous. Trumps a douche, no doubt. But I'm still happy it's not a Clinton/Bush(Jeb) election then I would have lost all hope completely forever.

 

[Osmia]

Completely Disagree. Equal opportunity hater over here. hah. Was extremely happy to have any president except Bush. Everyone in college hated Bush. Everyone was pissed about the bullshit war in Iraq that had nothing to do with 9/11, and seemed to be about his daddy. Everyone was pissed about the Patriot Act. Bush/Cheney were pretty universally hated among most people I knew.

Had as much hope in Obama as everybody else. Disappointed. I wanted this Obama:
View attachment 64735

But then again I don't really like Jay Z anymore either. (Even had that midi ringtone on a flip phone whaat)
Can't stand Hillary for a multitude of reasons mainly political(But also know people who've met her).
Obama never liked her and she didn't like him. It's all so so phony and ridiculous. Trumps a douche, no doubt. But I'm still happy it's not a Clinton/Bush(Jeb) election then I would have lost all hope completely forever.

I started out not expecting too much of Obama, mainly because he didn't have any executive management experience. Also, I thought he was naive to believe he could singlehandedly defuse the partisan rancor in Washington. But he learned pretty quickly and has turned out to be a good president. Leaving aside his accomplishments, there's the fact that his administration hasn't had any scandals that I can think of, which is pretty unusual. Also, his family life seems about as normal as it can be when your children are growing up in the White House.

I'm not bothered by whether Hillary and Obama like each other, or whether Hillary is likeable. I don't particularly "like" her in the sense of her being someone I would enjoy spending a lot of time with. Like most politicians, she can be charming, but too driven to be around for an extended period. But that's not a problem for me because I'm not planning on spending time with her as a person. I just want someone who is competent, has good judgment, good interpersonal skills, is honest, and is driven to do what it takes to get stuff done. I think she has those qualities to an acceptable degree. She's certainly flawed, but I don't see her as being an outlier among other recent presidents and candidates. The thing I like least about her is that she's a Clinton, and Bill will be there, and it will seem like the 1990s again in some respects. She's kind of a throwback to that time, and we need someone who can move the country into the future.

 

[LuckySmiles]

Just in case For the elder folk, Obama was "brushing his shoulders off" in the above gif,
a popular Jay Z song reference. Which also happened to be my phones ringtone at the time, in crude form. (because... ladies is pimps too)
Let's all play this watch the gif click our heels have a group hug and pretend it's 2008 and nobody is as mad about anything yet. Even "misogynistic" rap songs embraced by Presidential candidates. Damn what has happened.


But honestly Obama and Trump are kinda the same to me. Trump is hated by enough politicians that it seems to be a good sign.

 

[LuckySmiles]

I just want someone who is competent, has good judgment, good interpersonal skills, is honest, and is driven to do what it takes to get stuff done. I think she has those qualities to an acceptable degree.

That's fine but I disagree wholeheartedly.
Good judgement.. nope
Good interpersonal skills.... noooope
Is Honest... Noooooooope.



But I find if I'm polite about it people think I'm misinformed. If I'm more aggressive I have "internalized misogyny" or some other ridiculous thing ironically suggesting I can't think for myself. (Not necessarily you, but in general)

 

[Nordling]

If you plan to vote for Trump, ask yourself first...do you want to be a part of these people?

 

[JerryBoBerry]

If I'm more aggressive I have "internalized misogyny" or some other ridiculous thing ironically suggesting I can't think for myself.

Yeah, it doesn't really matter if you have valid viewpoints and can articulate all your reasons for hours. "You must be misogynistic if you don't like Hillary." No, she just sucks as a candidate. Don't minimize people's stance in this election just because you don't agree.

 

[JoleneBrody]

Yeah, it doesn't really matter if you have valid viewpoints and can articulate all your reasons for hours. "You must be misogynistic if you don't like Hillary." No, she just sucks as a candidate. Don't minimize people's stance in this election just because you don't agree.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I really haven't seen much of that BS buzzing around here.

 

[AmberCutie]

Because we could all use a giggle, right? (You've probably already seen this floating around the web anyway.)

 

[Mila_]

To be fair the personality shtick was first used by Obama who literally ran on it his entire campaign. Trump has added a bit of drama flair, which I guess he learned from his experience with The Apprentice, but in essence the shtick is the same.

Pause for a second to consider all the clownish things the Obamas have done while in the White House that have nothing to do with governing and everything to do with theatrics to win over the public. And even though they have no more elections to win, they are still going at it, just last week they had Michelle Obama join Carpool Karaoke and "paparazzi" pics of Malia wasted while partying in London, and twerking at Lollapalooza:






I don't know how you feel about this in the US but we laugh at this in Europe and think the US president is a clown.

Trump is doing something similar with the difference that instead of using his image like he was a comedian or a rapper or a socialite, all the dramas he has been involved with have something to do with his political views, his political stance, etc. So at the very least he keeps the conversation on track.

The main difference between the two strategies is the audience they are aimed at. Obama is appealing to the people who think "he shared a pizza with his interns he is such a nice guy, I will vote for him cause he is just like me". While Trump is appealing to the person who thinks: "Wow this is a strong man, he wont backpedal or sugarcoat things. I will vote for him because he is a leader"

I have to say I hate both of their strategies and would much rather have a "serious" person governing that didn't have to perform like a clown to sway votes. But welcome to democracy, we can't really fault candidates for being good at the one thing they need to do which is win votes. We can't call people demagogues simply because they are good at the democracy game. If we are truly serious we need to point out the flaw in the system: popularity means nothing and just because someone is popular doesn't mean he is competent. If we are choosing someone to govern us all we should consider a different selection process, at least if we expect substance over image.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

To be fair the personality shtick was first used by Obama who literally ran on it his entire campaign. Trump has added a bit of drama flair, which I guess he learned from his experience with The Apprentice, but in essence the shtick is the same.

I have to wonder if you really believe this. I'll give you benefit of the doubt and assume you are trolling. Trump's "schtick" is the same as Obama?

 

[Mila_]

I have to wonder if you really believe this. I'll give you benefit of the doubt and assume you are trolling. Trump's "schtick" is the same as Obama?

The cult of personality? Absolutely. And I gave a pretty reasoned explanation to the statement if you cared to read it you would understand what the comparison is about and realize I am not trolling.