What is the most annoying thing a model can do?

[Mila_]

Cam sites built on a profit model (I think all of them) should imo go the route of a subscription based servixe and provide paid models a minimum wage. If any profit driven camsite that pays models cannot afford to do that, they shouldn't exist or offer any other precarious payment.

What do you mean by a "subscription based service"? Are you talking about paying a flat fee to have as many private shows as you want, or remove goals altogether from token sites so models perform show after show? I am sure a site like that would attract a lot of members, but I am not sure how many models would be willing to work on that basis.

I have noticed sometimes members want to dress their own selfish wishes with a cloak of humanitarianism "I am fighting for Model's rights" when what they really want is to get the goods for cheaper. Maybe you think cams are too expensive or that the spending is unpredictable and you would like to pay a fixed amount every month to make sure you don't go over your budget. All that is fine, but why make it sound like you are fighting for a cause?

The reason I would never work with a camsite like you describe is because it makes no sense to me. I am damn good at getting what I want and I make 100 times what a camsite would pay in a fixed wage working for tips. If I had a wage I would be an employee and that comes attached to strings like camming a minimum amount of hours every week and a maximum of hours as well. Many camgirls choose this job because they need the flexibility and independence, I certainly love being able to work 300 hours one week and 0 the next without worrying that I am breaking a contract or getting my employer in trouble because I am working more than what the law deems reasonable.

 

[monteyfromontario]

We aren't the employees of the cam site. We are simply using their platform to provide service to members. Service the members pay us for.

Hell, if I was a hair stylist, I'd have to PAY to use the platform (a chair in a salon) while MFC gives it to me for free! And restaurants, sales jobs do pay a wage, but most of those employees income is on commissions/tips.

It probably is better that you take your own advice and don't argue on this thread, as you're all over the place with your misinformation.

For all practical purposes camsite owners are employing cammers and they are capitalist pigs I'm sorry to put a damper on the entrepreneurial temporarily embarassed millionaire spirit here of the last few posts.

Kirby vacuum salesmen who Kirby calls "independent contractors" are technically not employees, but they are completely right to continue to scream at their higher ups as opposed to the customers.

And camsites are not socialized platforms that cammers have the good fortune to utilize. They are value sucking, profit driven businesses that steal often half of what is paid to cammers, much in the form of profit, and then attempt convince all their employees that they are all self-employed all American business-men and women.

Camsites could be socalized much in the same way Uber (which also steals wages), could be sociaized and employees take control of relatively simple electronic platforms.

An alternative to straight up socialization is for the cammsite owners to pay their employees a good wage or shut down their precarious payment and wage stealing system. Apologies if you don't consider me a real cammer, or consider me a moralist, or a cheapskate or whatever other ad hominem.

 

[AudriTwo]

I told myself I wouldn't argue on this thread so I'll clarify. I don't beleive in the customer vs. model mentality. I believe in the site owner vs. model mentality. Comission and independent contractor arrangements are not necessary exploitations. Cam sites built on a profit model (I think all of them) should imo go the route of a subscription based servixe and provide paid models a minimum wage. If any profit driven camsite that pays models cannot afford to do that, they shouldn't exist or offer any other precarious payment.

Same goes for Kirby vacuum and other sales jobs, resteraunts, strip joints, whatever. It's the business owners job to pay the employees a fair amount. That's not the customer's job. And it shouldn't be the employees job to, for example, buy business equipment make up for subpar or nonexistent wages etc

So why would I offer higher rates if I got minimum wage? Why would I want to take a pay cut, lose my independence and no longer have a flexible schedule? With a that in place, models wouldn't be inclined to make as much as possible.

 

[AmberCutie]

the cammsite owners to pay their employees a good wage

I imagine their employees are well paid. They run a really popular and successful site!

 

[monteyfromontario]

So why would I offer higher rates if I got minimum wage? Why would I want to take a pay cut, lose my independence and no longer have a flexible schedule? With a that in place, models wouldn't be inclined to make as much as possible.

Oh boy it's hard to type on this phone XD

Ideally it would be a living minimum wage with benefits, raise system etc..

Most cammers are not financially independent based on cam wages, but are perfectly fine cammers. And the very objectively well off cammers may get a cut to provide for other cammers deemed hireable.

If there are questions about how to facilitate those who want to stream masturbation legally to willing strangers outside the labor force and wage system, that's a different and interesting discussion. The technology is somewhat freely available outside established websites for that and possibly could be upscaled and built non-profit with features to protect privacy imo.

Oh well, there's my social justice rant for today. Back to life.

 

[JickyJuly]

Pffffft.
The only girls who would sign up for a site like that are the ones who sit in front of the cam doing nothing and making nothing.
Who would subscribe? They could go sit in free chat, watch that, feel sad.
Making a camgirl your actual employee would make you liable for her actions I think.
Bad ideas. So many bad ideas.

 

[heybarkeep]

Woodstock was like 50 years ago man. Give it up already hippy.

 

[AudriTwo]

Oh well, there's my social justice rant for today. Back to life.

I see what is going on here. Drink the socialism kool-aid, kids.

 

[Sevrin]

The first time I saw cam girls was when there were scheduled shows offered as a perk for members of a porn site. The models were paid a flat rate for two-hour sessions and the shows were moderated. In between, models would work on sites like iFriends, etc. Eventually, tipping and private shows were introduced. This ended in 2010 when the site switch to an SM white label deal and the operator went independent. I met a few models I'm still in touch with there.

 

[Mikey_P]

So let me get this-- Starting a business, investing in it, marketing it and then turning it into something that both models and customers enjoy is wrong because you don't BELIEVE that customers should be responsible for paying models--- WHY?

I can only seeing broke bad models wanting a 'livable wage' and do you want low value models to get that livable wage as well? What if there are models who do not generate $15/hr, then does it not all become like welfare!!!!!???

Your idea would also take money out of the hands of models who are good and who work hard because someone has to pay for the low performers in the structure you suggest. This isn't school lunch and making poor kids go hungry!

Your Suggestion about similar companies like Uber shows that you know like ZERO about business and have zero respect ffor the work it takes to successfully operate such a business. Uber took a model that another company failed at and turned it into a globally successful business. Somehow in your mind the owners of Uber are worthless and add zero value when the truth is that without their hard work Uber drivers would likely be out of work. It is easy to come in after all the work is done and suggest that the workers could easily just take over the technology-- Are they going to buy the company for 100 million dollars??? How?

Pretty much @#$#$ freeloaders, people who don't take risks, those not willing to create and especially those who want to poo poo over those who work their butts off creating these companies that make it possible for so many ppl to earn money. Also, screw jealous cam girls who spend all their time talking about the top models!!!

Yes, take over the factory after the owner spent a fortune buying tools and machinery just because the workers want more money without creating more value!!! Certainly the workers don't need anyone but themselves! I blame you for Trump BTW.

 

[JoleneBrody]

if I didn't have the freedom to be myself fully and do whatever the fuck I want on cam (within the guidelines and laws) there is no way in hell I would be a camgirl.

 

[MFCGod]

For all practical purposes camsite owners are employing cammers.

You know the beautiful thing about sites like MFC (as far as I'm aware anyway) is that anyone can sign up and see how they do

It's a pretty level playing field and your success is largely in your own hands

If cam sites had to pay a certain wage they would have to be more choosy who they allow on their platform

 

[SaffronBurke]

I told myself I wouldn't argue on this thread so I'll clarify. I don't beleive in the customer vs. model mentality. I believe in the site owner vs. model mentality. Comission and independent contractor arrangements are not necessary exploitations. Cam sites built on a profit model (I think all of them) should imo go the route of a subscription based servixe and provide paid models a minimum wage. If any profit driven camsite that pays models cannot afford to do that, they shouldn't exist or offer any other precarious payment.

We would make a hell of a lot less than we do now under that model, fuck that.

Btw, restaurants DO pay servers a minimum wage, it's just less than the regular minimum wage. In my state, regular minimum wage is $7.25, while server minimum is $4.35. Servers often end up making considerably more off of tips than they would if they were paid regular minimum wage like the host and kitchen staff. Switching to a tip-free, regular minimum wage system would make customers happy because eating out would cost less, but then the servers wouldn't be making as much, which would be a problem for them - and they also would no longer be kissing ass and taking rude treatment to get said tips, which would probably lead to the general public whining about how servers aren't nice to them anymore.

 

[AudriTwo]

 

[monteyfromontario]

Trying to avoid speaking to industry suits here

We would make a hell of a lot less than we do now under that model, fuck that.

Btw, restaurants DO pay servers a minimum wage, it's just less than the regular minimum wage. In my state, regular minimum wage is $7.25, while server minimum is $4.35. Servers often end up making considerably more off of tips than they would if they were paid regular minimum wage like the host and kitchen staff. Switching to a tip-free, regular minimum wage system would make customers happy because eating out would cost less, but then the servers wouldn't be making as much, which would be a problem for them - and they also would no longer be kissing ass and taking rude treatment to get said tips, which would probably lead to the general public whining about how servers aren't nice to them anymore.

See my living wage slash benefits comment above. That's part of what what myself and many others advocate. The minimum minimum wage was originally meant to be a living wage anyway.

There is, as you probably know, very large support from waiters to switch to a living wage system without tips like most of the rest of the developed world.

Also, this video is relevant and I agree with it.

 

[AudriTwo]

How about you create your own website where you pay your models minimum wage? Tell us how that works out, k?

 

[monteyfromontario]

How about you create your own website where you pay your models minimum wage? Tell us how that works out, k?

Well, I have no interest in being a capitalist, but if I was, I'd pay a living minimum wage or shut down, and regardless of what I do, any site that does not guarantee workers a living wage should change or not exist. This also applies to other exploitative rampant sub-poverty sites like "Amazon Turk".

 

[JickyJuly]

I don't know anyone who lives on tips that would like to switch to a "living wage". I've worked both as a waitress and a hairdresser...so lots of tip people covered in my statement. Service industry jobs with tips are one of the ways to make a living without expensive long haul college first.

 

[monteyfromontario]

I don't know anyone who lives on tips that would like to switch to a "living wage". I've worked both as a waitress and a hairdresser...so lots of tip people covered in my statement. Service industry jobs with tips are one of the ways to make a living without expensive long haul college first.

And nearly everyone I've worked with in Canada in food service wanted a living wage instead of sub-par (and in the U.S's case sub-poverty) wages + tips. Tips were in the first place (and for most cases are) just a way for the restaurant industry to shortchange workers in Canada and the United States (the only countries that exist apparently), and it's the same in the sex industry. Well, a few parts of it at least.

 

[JickyJuly]

And in my experience in working food service, nearly everyone I worked with wanted a living wage instead of sub-poverty wages + tips. Tips were just a way for the restaurant industry to shortchange workers in the first place, and it's the same in the sex industry. Well, a few parts of it at least.

Well... if you're in a service industry you have to be somewhat good at your job to not make crap. If girls are making the income they bring in at the percentage they agreed to, it's hard to imagine they're being shortchanged. The larger possibility is that they aren't suited to the job. If you fear blood and sign on to be a phlebotomist, the other phlebotomists aren't going to do your job, and share their $$$ with you while you sit in the corner trying not to vomit.

 

[AudriTwo]

Well, I have no interest in being a capitalist, but if I was, I'd pay a living minimum wage or shut down, and regardless of what I do, any site that does not guarantee workers a living wage should change or not exist. This also applies to other exploitative rampant sub-poverty sites like "Amazon Turk".

How's you second semester of college coming along?

 

[Ann_Sulu]

Model A- Logs in has a great stream, lighting sound etc. and she has years experience and good personality making her be able to not only make good tips due to knowing what camsite members want, but she could say go and if she felt ambitious...get a bit of a raise by competing in a camsite competition (they all have them not just MFC).

Model B- Logs in with a choppy cam due to slow internet, yellow bedroom lighting, has auto-focus on and her mic makes her sound like she's talking in a tin can. She barely has experience, no one knows how dedicated she is to camming yet, so fear tipping and truly investing in her, and if she's the type who wears her personality on her shoulder...well good luck Model B. We'll see if you're still around in approximately 6 months time. Model A went through all of this once upon a time by the way.

I have more than a slight feeling a huuuuuge amount of Model A's in the internet world would be pretty ticked off if the Model B's were getting minimum wage for simply showing up and sitting on a barely viewable cam.

Whether or not you believe in tipping your waitress, she doesn't serve you via monitor and speakers over the internet. Plus, most industries give workers a schedule. Cammers don't get scheduled. If times are slow online, the camsite isn't gonna shout at us telling us "Log off labor is too high!" whereas in another industry where you show up for work, they'll tell you to go home to save labor costs. So basically if this actually happened, you could expect a TON of seriously crappy cams where the cammers just stayed logged on doing nothing.

 

[mynameisbob84]

View attachment 68454

I am the walrus.

 

[Snowie1969]

Well, even when you are working on a minimum wage, you are still supposed to do a thing or 2.. And while I absolutely applaud and support payment up to living standard for everyone in this world, I doubt that we'll see that in camming, and I doubt that in camming it would be a good or positive thing. Not everyone is cut out to be a good cam model. It takes looks, it takes enterprise, it takes equipment and it takes personality. Lacking in any of these and good luck making a decent living.

There is more than a fair share of 'not so good' models around, who lack the vision to even attempt to improve in some of these factors.. If those models would get paid a minimum wage regardless, what incentive do they still have to improve themselves?

(Damn, I sound very capitalistic now)

 

[Ann_Sulu]

(Damn, I sound very capitalistic now)

I know early twenties me started having a hissy fit at adult"er" me. XD

 

[nekogasuki]

I might be opening myself up to attack here, but I'll admit I have socialist leanings and - though it seems unattainable - I like Marx and Engles' philosophy. That being said, I'd like to point something out that I haven't seen anyone else mention. @monteyfromontario Most employers take a lot more than 50% out of their employees in labor, so - regardless of your economic philosophy - the fact is that camsites give models a much better deal than we can find elsewhere. The difference is that employers don't advertise the amount of "unpaid labor" they're getting out of their employees, partly because it varies greatly and also because it would be against their better interests. That in mind, it seems like arguing for a minimum wage specific to cam sites adds unnecessary scrutiny to an already highly scrutinized vocation. Also, I'd like to point out that you basically came into the hangout spot of a bunch of people who cam for a living and told them it wasn't a real job. Even if that wasn't your intention, it was rude and/or condescending.

 

[VeronicaChaos]

Also, can we talk about the practicalities of why MFC exists in the first place? These top models who make MFC money are paying for lower earners to stream; bandwidth doesn't grow on trees. They also provide MFC with enough revenue to motivate MFC to continue operations. I'm not even a low-earner anymore, but MFC sure wouldn't be able to justify operations through my measly cut. I'm glad that top models are creating financial security and infrastructure for the website I earn my living on.

 

[Mikey_P]

I somewhat agree with a livable wage but you are not applying it correctly and you are not making room for industries where the workers don't want a livable wage or where it simply doens't make any sense. For the most part, a livable wage is only good for very low skilled 'professions' where the worker cannot easily improve their income by being a better worker. In that case, a livable wage suggest that these type of workers will always be needed so why not lets improve their station in life so that they don't have to exist in poverty while putting in 40 hours a week. There are many good arguments for and against that. I know that when they @#!3# up my order I'm completely against them getting $15/HR for such a simple job that my 5 year old cousin could do much better! But But But before the butthurt, there are times when I'm full of liberal empathetic social justice safe space juice when I just love the idea of a livable wage but then my super balance seeking objective mind then goes over to-- Who's going to pay for it? How will employers react to this decrease in profit? You know, like, alll the thingz that you have to take into account before charging full steam ahead on this idea.

But in industries like camming, you have to be one sorry cam girl to want a minimum wage and just like one poster above said, 'it would just make the criteria for being a cam girl even harder but companies really do not want to pay for dead weight. It is okay to be dead useless weight in the current system because you only hurt yourself and not the site.

Amazon mturk is not an immoral business model, the work just doesn't have enough value for the clients to pay more money. Sales jobs are for good performers, not for people who need a min wage but many sales jobs offer a draw to keep their workers fed. I don't think it is immoral not to pay a draw, it just means that a company is running a high worker turnover model. The ppl who are good stay, the ppl who aren't talented leave.

Don't worry because when a basic income is necessary we will have tons of ppl sitting around doing jack @%&&* destroying our progress as a species.

 

[Influenced]

I was in a room where we ignored the model during her cum show and talked about trading the markets instead!

In all honesty, I have seen this happen in more than one room, I do not participate in the chat cause its pretty lame for a model to being doing a show like that etc and the room pretty much damn near ignoring her by talking about something else entirely and not tipping to boot, fucked up.

 

[monteyfromontario]

Don't worry because when a basic income is necessary we will have tons of ppl sitting around doing jack @%&&* destroying our progress as a species.

Oh no, a basic income is long overdue in theory if political stability is of any concern. Over a third of the U.S. and Canada need the security to stop what could only otherwise end in a violent revolution or a police state. But in practice, FDR's second bill of rights would be better, as it has more appeal to what I'd call "American values". Also, lumping all welfare programs into one program like basic income would be too easy for conservatives to eliminate. FDRs hodgepodge of guaranteed necessities programs has much more staying power.