What happens next.....

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

The common thread in all of these situations is that the customer wants to take things from a virtual experience to a real-life experience. When you go to a CAM site, you shouldn't expect anything to come of it beyond a bit of fun over webcam. Like, if guys would just use the site as it's intended to be used, then this wouldn't be a problem. We are all here selling fantasy. When you go looking for something more than that, you get yourself into trouble. Even if it's not something you explicitly look for, believing that a stranger who lives thousands of miles away wants to marry you and start a life together is just willful ignorance.

 

[Shy Cam Guy]

The common thread in all of these situations is that the customer wants to take things from a virtual experience to a real-life experience. When you go to a CAM site, you shouldn't expect anything to come of it beyond a bit of fun over webcam. Like, if guys would just use the site as it's intended to be used, then this wouldn't be a problem. We are all here selling fantasy. When you go looking for something more than that, you get yourself into trouble. Even if it's not something you explicitly look for, believing that a stranger who lives thousands of miles away wants to marry you and start a life together is just willful ignorance.

I disagree somewhat. It ignores the human dimension of emotions and vulnerability. It is very convenient to assume that all victims of scams are ignorant. That is akin to other forms of victim blaming to justify crimes

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

I know there are many honest operators but I would suspect the majoity of the industry is criminal as are those who speak up for it and blame victims of crime.

I think we are mostly in agreement overall, but the above statement is problematic. Sure there are people with bad intentions (the same as any other industry), but it's simply untrue to state that the MAJORITY of us working in this industry are evil scammers. That sounds like a convenient assumption that removes the need for you, I mean your friend, to reflect on the actions and choices that led to this situation and allows for the continued rejection of reality. Also... It's not a crime to lie to some dude and say you have feelings for him. It's not my hustle and I don't think it's ethical, but it's not criminal either.

What makes you think that the percentage of dishonest cam performers is any higher than that in any other given industry? I'd be very interested to see some stats on that. There are people who will try to take advantage of fools in every field.

 

[Shy Cam Guy]

I think we are mostly in agreement overall, but the above statement is problematic. Sure there are people with bad intentions (the same as any other industry), but it's simply untrue to state that the MAJORITY of us working in this industry are evil scammers. That sounds like a convenient assumption that removes the need for you, I mean your friend, to reflect on the actions and choices that led to this situation and allows for the continued rejection of reality. Also... It's not a crime to lie to some dude and say you have feelings for him. It's not my hustle and I don't think it's ethical, but it's not criminal either.

What makes you think that the percentage of dishonest cam performers is any higher than that in any other given industry? I'd be very interested to see some stats on that. There are people who will try to take advantage of fools in every field.

I didn't mean all the performers Mollie. I was talking about the broader industry and everything that surrounds it. My word "majority" was purely based n speculation based upon the amount of fraud and my knowledge of the structure of much of the industry and the nature of much of the money likely to be going through it.. I know most of the models, and definitely independent owners in the West are not scammers. But its a big and dirty world out there and anything with that type of structure is bound to attarct a lot of dirty money ad unsavory associations to the broader stucture. Its a very nice way to launder money. Also much of the transfer of tokens/funds seems to be within industry as far as I can see. Many of the players on sites are clearly insiders. Also some sites offer questionnable payment mechanisms whicha re associated with criminal networks and activities. In addition there are known links with drug gangs and other gangs.

So sure, many operators, especially independents will be clean. But the world I have seen is very dirty and as I mentioned above there is tried and true scammers cookbook which many seem to operate on which is clearly fraud. I could also document some of the lower level fraud discussed on here with the widepsread use of tipping echanisms whicha ren''t truly linked to the toys being used. So all that is fak to suggest that higher tips give more pleasure. Not for all but for some/many.

I've been around for a long time and you observe that one customer has to pay 500-1000 tokens for much the same response as someone else paying less than 100. How is that not a fraud

PS Most of the holding companies hardly make any profit (if any) on massive turnover. Very dodgy indeed

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

I dunno man, too many conspiracy theories for me to mull over before I've had my coffee. Just enjoy watching cam performers. Or don't. I'm not going to lie and tell you that I care what you choose to do.

 

[Shy Cam Guy]

I dunno man, too many conspiracy theories for me to mull over before I've had my coffee. Just enjoy watching cam performers. Or don't. I'm not going to lie and tell you that I care what you choose to do.

Anyway this has all totally derailed my discussion about my poor friend being scammed out of his money.

They arn't conspiracy theories. Its based on quite extensive research and knowledge. I'm not into conspiracies

Anyway, I hope you realise I have nothing at all against all the legit. models and other operators in the industry. I just do casual research in industries with which I have extensive acquaintance and knowledge. Plus my research is purely for myself and not on anyone's behalf in case anyone gets nervous .

I'm just a bit academic at heart which sometimes imposes itself on my pleasure activities and often to my detriment

 

[Dan Epstein]

There is no suggestion without an auto-suggestion.
Have you ever heard of someone who dreamed of being an investor in stock exchange, crap real estate in the wastelands of Nebraska, or life prolonging salves, and lost all of their money?
The abundance of attractive lies is not unique to one industry over the others. I've never heard of someone going bankrupt on a webcam streaming website.

For every Eastern European horror story, I can juxtapose at least 50 Eastern European female, male, and trans models who are rocking it on a daily basis, and honestly hard working for it. Social wisdom which is only based on assumptions can be very partial and discriminatory.
As for the allegations of money laundering, few are the trades that willingly undergo the most strict compliance check ups and standards like the models, affiliates, providers, and streaming websites of the adult industry.

 

[Shy Cam Guy]

There is no suggestion without an auto-suggestion.
Have you ever heard of someone who dreamed of being an investor in stock exchange, crap real estate in the wastelands of Nebraska, or life prolonging salves, and lost all of their money?
The abundance of attractive lies is not unique to one industry over the others. I've never heard of someone going bankrupt on a webcam streaming website.

For every Eastern European horror story, I can juxtapose at least 50 Eastern European female, male, and trans models who are rocking it on a daily basis, and honestly hard working for it. Social wisdom which is only based on assumptions can be very partial and discriminatory.
As for the allegations of money laundering, few are the trades that willingly undergo the most strict compliance check ups and standards like the models, affiliates, providers, and streaming websites of the adult industry.

None this addresses the massive scams that everyone knows and are endemic and are an accepted and documented part of the industry. And whenever anyone brings issues up they get attacked.

Anyway the topic was a specific scam and the tendency of many to blame victims of scams. In my book victim blankets are almost as bad as the scammers.

Last night they had a big argument about her asking for money and that was all she wanted. Then she went crazy with all this stuff, emotional blackmail. Do you not believe how I feel. How can you think that of me etc etc. Kind honest and gentle people cannot handle that level of organised manipulation. If you keep defending it as industry its disgusting

 

[Shy Cam Guy]

None this addresses the massive scams that everyone knows and are endemic and are an accepted and documented part of the industry. And whenever anyone brings issues up they get attacked.

Anyway the topic was a specific scam and the tendency of many to blame victims of scams. In my book victim blankets are almost as bad as the scammers.

Last night they had a big argument about her asking for money and that was all she wanted. Then she went crazy with all this stuff, emotional blackmail. Do you not believe how I feel. How can you think that of me etc etc. Kind honest and gentle people cannot handle that level of organised manipulation. If you keep defending it as industry its disgusting

My poor friend doesn't know what to do because every time he tries to end it she acts really hurt and he can't handle hurting people. Its just horrible. He just doesn't know how to get out of the situation.

People are being defrauded thousands or tens of thousands of dollars that they can't and all the industry does is laugh and say it's their fault. How would you feel if I broke into your home and stole all that money

 

[a_haze420]

The percentage of models scamming members is quite low compared to members trying to scam (though often unsuccessfully) models.

Also no one here blamed the victim. However if guys stopped looking at cam sites as dating sites these "love scams" would happen much less often.

 

[Carmita Bonita]

People are being defrauded thousands or tens of thousands of dollars that they can't and all the industry does is laugh and say it's their fault. How would you feel if I broke into your home and stole all that money

That is not comparable at all wtf >_>

While I do sympathize with guys who fall for the love-con scams both in camming and dating sites etc-it's not like the guys are being forced to give up their $$. It's not victim blaming to think that people dealing with these situations need to assume some personal responsibility with thier finances/life choices.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

We aren't defending this person's actions, we are defending ourselves because you accuse the majority of acting similarly every chance you get. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not sure what your expected outcome is, we aren't the cam girl police, we can't do anything about your friend's alleged mistreatment. As independent contractors we are all responsible for our own businesses, but we can't do anything about the way that others choose to run theirs.

His only recourse is to cut her off, financially and in communication. That's what happens next. There's literally nothing else that can be done.

My poor friend doesn't know what to do because every time he tries to end it she acts really hurt and he can't handle hurting people. Its just horrible. He just doesn't know how to get out of the situation.

He needs to grow up and get over it.

 

[Shy Cam Guy]

The percentage of models scamming members is quite low compared to members trying to scam (though often unsuccessfully) models.

Also no one here blamed the victim. However if guys stopped looking at cam sites as dating sites these "love scams" would happen much less often.

I think you will find in some countries the scam percentage is high. Plus there are many other scams divined on here such as the tip activation scam and many other forms of fraud.

I'm not accusing everyone at all. Just those who engage and after 5 years I've seen a lot. Its a lot easier for industry to scam clients than the other way round. I can't see how it's possible for me to scam a client. The only possible situation is providing a service before payment. But I don't imagine many do that.

But I've listed many of the scams above.

Regarding my friend and the advice that he is responsible for being scammed. It is exactly comparable to breaking into a house and then blaming the victim of the robbery.

PS I have come to the conclusion that my friend's model acquaintance maybe psychopathic or narcissistic. She seems to completely lack empathy and any other normal response but uses fake emotion to keep the scam going.

I just think the industry should acknowledge these issues especially in some countries. And all I ever see is victim blaming for cons. But maybe that's the nature of the industry. Full of people who regard scams and cons as acceptable

 

[Phoenix4987]

All empathy ceases to exist when you know you're playing with fire, but you still keep putting your hand in it. Take some responsibility like a man and own up to it. The blame is shared, but you're just as equally guilty if you keep going back and allowing it to continue.

Nobody forced you with a gun to your head to keep talking to her and keep giving her money. That's on you for being weak.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

I just think the industry should acknowledge these issues especially in some countries.

Nearly every cam site (I would say every, but I haven't studied the rules of sites I haven't worked with) warns against, or disallows entirely, giving out personal information and contacting or paying performers off-site. What actions would you suggest they take beyond that? Because I think that pretty much negates the possibility for members to get into situations like the one you have brought up here.

 

[Shy Cam Guy]

Nearly every cam site (I would say every, but I haven't studied the rules of sites I haven't worked with) warns against, or disallows entirely, giving out personal information and contacting or paying performers off-site. What actions would you suggest they take beyond that? Because I think that pretty much negates the possibility for members to get into situations like the one you have brought up here.

I'm talking about the systemic nature of scams. And scamming can be done through the token system. It doesn't have to be offline payment to be a scam. Anything that deceives someone into giving tokens is a scam. Pretending to be in love and in some kind of relationship is one of the main ones. There are many others that run through the token system. Eg tip activation scams, insider transfer of tokens to encourage paying users, variable treatment of clients, friends, family, or other acquaintance, or gang people helping to con people out of tokens, multisite scamming, so called privates that aren't etc. There are countless. And I know most models are honest.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

I'm talking about the systemic nature of scams. And scamming can be done through the token system. It doesn't have to be offline payment to be a scam. Anything that deceives someone into giving tokens is a scam. Pretending to be in love and in some kind of relationship is one of the main ones. There are many others that run through the token system. Eg tip activation scams, insider transfer of tokens to encourage paying users, variable treatment of clients, friends, family, or other acquaintance, or gang people helping to con people out of tokens, multisite scamming, so called privates that aren't etc. There are countless. And I know most models are honest.

Okay but you are ignoring the part about off-site contact and exchange of personal information. Nearly every site forbids this. Stop contacting models outside of their workplace, don't accept their offers to do so, and boom. Safe from the evil feminine wiles and trickery that convince you that a cam performer is in love with you and wants to marry you.

Think with the big head, not with the little head.

 

[Shy Cam Guy]

If you misuse the service and break the rules

Okay but you are ignoring the part about off-site contact. Nearly every site forbids this. Stop contacting models outside of their workplace, don't accept their offers to do so, and boom. Safe from the evil feminine wiles and trickery that convince you that a cam performer is in love with you and wants to marry you.

Think with the big head, not with the little head.

Chaturbate doesn't ban it. What right do sites have to ban offsite contact anyway. But sure I accept that getting into "relationship" is not a good idea but that is part of the established scam MO by some parts of the industry. Eg bosses of studios in some countries who direct the models what to do. That is part of the industry

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

They can't make rules against being plain stupid either, thus, here we are...

 

[mynameisbob84]

Not a big deal, but Shy Cam Guy, mate, you honestly don't need to keep up the pretense that you're speaking on behalf of "a friend". Part of having an intelligent, adult discussion is treating the other people in the discussion like intelligent adults. You can't do that whilst also expecting them to believe that you're not talking about yourself here.

 

[CoffeeKnight]

Not a big deal, but Shy Cam Guy, mate, you honestly don't need to keep up the pretense that you're speaking on behalf of "a friend". Part of having an intelligent, adult discussion is treating the other people in the discussion like intelligent adults. You can't do that whilst also expecting them to believe that you're not talking about yourself here.

Thinking the same thing. I feel this thread is spiraling.

 

[Phoenix4987]

You done lost yo mind. You can have offsite contact with someone and not have delusions about being married and starting a life together lol.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

If you want a real relationship, meet real people in real life. If you want to touch your dick while watching hot girls who wouldn't talk to you if you weren't paying them, visit cam sites. It's really that simple.

 

[AudriTwo]

What right do sites have to ban offsite contact anyway.

To protect themselves from being liable for the stupid guilble people. It's easier to say keep contact on the site and also to keep models from poaching their traffic.

 

[Shy Cam Guy]

Not a big deal, but Shy Cam Guy, mate, you honestly don't need to keep up the pretense that you're speaking on behalf of "a friend". Part of having an intelligent, adult discussion is treating the other people in the discussion like intelligent adults. You can't do that whilst also expecting them to believe that you're not talking about yourself here.

I am actually talking about a close friend who I care about very much. If you wonder why I feel the way I do its because I fell for a few of these scams myself years ago and they still upset me a lot. You shouldnt jump to conclusions mate but Ive read some of your posts before and you and many others like to jump to conclusions, make fake statements and put words in people's mouths.

And also almost everyone on this thread are victim blamers which makes them as bad as the scammers

 

[Shy Cam Guy]

To protect themselves from being liable for the stupid guilble people. It's easier to say keep contact on the site and also to keep models from poaching their traffic.

So everyone who is a victim of crime is stupid and gulible according to you. It appears criminality and those attitudes are rife in this inusutry judging by most responses here

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

It sounds like you and your friend need to quit visiting cam sites.

 

[Shy Cam Guy]

If you want a real relationship, meet real people in real life. If you want to touch your dick while watching hot girls who wouldn't talk to you if you weren't paying them, visit cam sites. It's really that simple.

How many times do I have to say it. the models pursue the clients and manipulate people in these cases. My friend did not go looking for a relationship. He went for a bit of harmless fun and is now being conned by an established scam MO which involves great deal of psychologicl and emotional manipulation of vulnerable people

 

[Shy Cam Guy]

It sounds like you and your friend need to quit visiting cam sites.

Clearly if they are all criminals. But you assured me they aren't

Plus I've seen hundreds of models and its only a certain group who follow this MO

But the other "lesser" scams are more widespread throughout

 

[Phoenix4987]

This just in: Girls fake being in love to get money. Only happens on camsites, never in real life. BUYERS BEWARE! Get real. Chill. Go get your dick wet. Like 10x. Doc's orders