Nordling said:
Time to devise some electrical testicle traps... say that ten times fast.
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Trayvon Martin
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Time to devise some electrical testicle traps... say that ten times fast.
Actually I remember asking my friend when I was in the US if it was legal to set boobytraps for intruders, apparently it isn't.Bocefish said:Nordling said:
Time to devise some electrical testicle traps... say that ten times fast.
I'll buy that. Here are homicide statistics from Florida's department of health. I don't think SYG applies only to firearms.Jupiter551 said:
Again you see the spike over 2005-2008 and drop over subsequent years. The rate for 2010 is actually .1 less than 2002.
I thought shards of broken glass cemented along a windowsill was an excellent way of deterring people from climbing through it.
I agree with Luna that being charged can be just as costly on a living and finding a job just as much as being found guilty can, but I find that that should be a reason for why people should avoid putting themselves in situations that could find their lives to be ruined. Did Zimmerman ever consider what his life would be like after tracking this kid down and getting out of his SUV with a loaded gun?
I mean this entire time he's thinking this is the one breaking into everyone's house and stealing their stuff right? Even when he shoots him he must think this is the guy, right? He had several choices to make leading up to finally becoming face to face with Trayvon and ultimately shooting him and he alone put himself in this situation and to think that he should have avoided all charges and a trial because there's already too many court cases or because his life could be ruined is laughable to me when he is the cause of a life not just being ruined but ended at his own hands, so to speak.
I mean this entire time he's thinking this is the one breaking into everyone's house and stealing their stuff right? Even when he shoots him he must think this is the guy, right? He had several choices to make leading up to finally becoming face to face with Trayvon and ultimately shooting him and he alone put himself in this situation and to think that he should have avoided all charges and a trial because there's already too many court cases or because his life could be ruined is laughable to me when he is the cause of a life not just being ruined but ended at his own hands, so to speak.
Bocefish said:Time to devise some electrical testicle traps... say that ten times fast.Nordling said:
Actually, for this particular problem, they pretty much exist...... Ever accidently peed on electrified cattle fence ? :scared-shocked: :scared-shocked: :scared-shocked: Guarantee you won't do it twice...
SoTxBob said:
I've seen it on Mythbusters, lol That's enough fer me. I did take a drunk bar dare to bark with a shock collar on once. Those assholes upped the amperage though and it knocked off the stool like a friggin' stun gun.
SweepTheLeg said:
Okay, repeal SYG.
You got a 20 something woman jogging in the park. A man tackles her, and begins to tear of her clothing. She gets to the revolver she carries in a belly-band and empties the cylinder into his stomach. Five rounds. Without SYG she is in legal limbo. The prosecutor can file charges. Under the old Duty-to-Retreat standard the Prosecutor can argue there is some super secret way for her to get away from her attacker. She now faces criminal charges and a civil suit.
Under SYG, the Judge can dismiss the case pre-trial on the basis of Self-Defense and the attacker's next of kin cannot sue her for deciding that killing the bastard is preferable to rape. Heck, under SYG she may not pay a single dime in lawyer expenses or court fees.
Ok, well that skews the data if you include all homocides because SYG has increased the ease of proving justifiable homocide by a private citizen, and as you can see from this FBI chart, over 90% of all justifiable homocides are committed with firearms http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc.../crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl15.xls while the number of firearm related indictable homocides is closer to 60% http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc.../crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl11.xls.Kradek said:
So that's going to skew the results pretty considerably. If we just look at firearm homocides, we'll get more than 90% of the justified ones within the group. I think it's fair to extrapolate that the percent of firearm/non-firearm justifiable homocides is fairly comparable to the number of SYG cases, unless for some reason there was a disproportionate number of knife murders attempting to claim self-defense that were denied, compared to firearm murders for example.
So if we look at those same figures from Florida over a ten year period but only looking at homocides with firearms - can you see a trend occurring after 2005?
Here it is in detail, the rate per population has risen considerably since 2002, and works out to a 17% increase.
http://www.floridacharts.com/charts...ear_report_OLAP.aspx?indnumber=0732&year=2010
Fun story time here- In my younger days my friends and I were pulling a prank in a developing neighborhood around town that ends up not exactly going to plan and trying to avoid getting caught we run through the backyards of many houses to get across the street. I see my friend jump across the ditch and I follow suit. Now while I didn't exactly piss on this electric fence, I however jump right into one had one on my chest grabbing onto it out of instinct, one on my upper upper thigh and one on my shin/knee area. Won't ever be doing that again.
Bad example, plenty of physical evidence and precedent for a judge to make a judgement of self-defense, if it ever even made to trial which it wouldn't. Are you suggesting that everywhere else women are allowing themselves to be raped for fear of prosecution? Or that there's a trend of prosecuting rape victims for defending themselves?Harvrath said:
Harvrath said:
So, we've gone from a grown man tracking down and ultimately killing an unarmed teen to a woman being assaulted and an attempted rape victim and being taken to court and charged with murder? You're reaching, dude. reeeeaaaaccchiiiing.
Put yourself in Zim's shoes for a second.
This is a gated community where no unauthorized vehicles are allowed. Signs like this are everywhere:
Recent burglary suspects are described as young black males. Zim is on his way to the store and spots somebody he doesn't know, so decides to follow him. He thinks he looks suspicious and fits the description of the recent break-ins, so he calls the non-emergency police line.
The suspect decides to run, Zim starts to follow on foot. Operator says we don't need you to do that, Zim says OK and halts his pursuit and gives operator his personal info, plans a meeting place... call ends.
Zim ends up with a broken nose and lacerations to the back of his head supporting his claim of shooting in self-defense while there are no obvious injuries to Trayvon aside from the gunshot.
You decide based on the facts we know so far.
Since when does "We report all suspicious persons and activities" translate to we follow you down and play cop?
Put yourself in Trayvon's shoes, here is a kid walking to his girlfriends house when he sees someone in an SUV clearly following him, and then get out of said SUV to pursue him on foot. You'd react how? "Oh hello Mr Man, I agree I look much like the suspect you believe me to be and I will accept a free ride to the police station now. Is that a gun you have? That's neat, I don't have one myself but I can see why you'd want one to defend yourself against all undesirables that look like me."
Put yourself in Trayvon's shoes, here is a kid walking to his girlfriends house when he sees someone in an SUV clearly following him, and then get out of said SUV to pursue him on foot. You'd react how? "Oh hello Mr Man, I agree I look much like the suspect you believe me to be and I will accept a free ride to the police station now. Is that a gun you have? That's neat, I don't have one myself but I can see why you'd want one to defend yourself against all undesirables that look like me."
There's no evidence so far that his nose is broken other than what he's said, and contradictions by witnesses and police footage. As for those "lacerations", I could do worse to the back of my head with a dinner fork. The only reason you can see anything at all is his bald spot.
SweepTheLeg said:
His girlfriend lives in another county/state. Quite the hike...
If I had nothing to hide, I wouldn't run in a gated community.
Jupiter551 said:
Medical reports will bear out his injuries or lack thereof. Assuming he has no injuries worth noting is pure speculation. If he was was just being a big baby and had boo-boos, why would the police say his injuries corroborated his claim of self-defense at the scene?
So you've been followed before? Hell I get paranoid when I'm driving in a car in the backstreets some where and a car takes the same three turns I do. I have nothing to hide, I'm a pretty straight and narrow young chap that doesn't break the law and if someone even looks like they're following me I get filled with anxiety.
If this was a cop, and Trayvon had nothing to hide I could see where you're coming from, but this is just some guy in a truck who got out to pursue him on foot. Trayvon owed this man absolute dick.
If this was a cop, and Trayvon had nothing to hide I could see where you're coming from, but this is just some guy in a truck who got out to pursue him on foot. Trayvon owed this man absolute dick.
SweepTheLeg said:
The key here, imo, is it was a gated community where there are no unauthorized vehicles. If I had every right to be there and knew there were community watchmen and a vehicle was following me, I would have no reason to run or fear.
That being said, my high school girlfriend lived in a gated community and I'd sneak in on foot and climb the balcony to her room after dark, avoiding every vehicle in motion because I didn't want to get caught or noticed.
Tray had every right to be there with no reason to run or hide. If he was scared, he could have easily ran to where his father was staying or called 911.
Nordling
V.I.P. AmberLander
Oh, grand. Now you're in Trayvon's mind and know what he was thinking.
No new information has come out. Like you like to remind us, it's all speculation until we get more information. For now, I stand by the victim, an unarmed 17 year old kid who was killed by a 28 year old, armed man.
No new information has come out. Like you like to remind us, it's all speculation until we get more information. For now, I stand by the victim, an unarmed 17 year old kid who was killed by a 28 year old, armed man.
sorrowfool said:
I'm sure George caught up with a 6'3" 17 year old high school athlete running away just to shoot him point blank in the chest, then somehow break his own nose and self-inflict lacerations to the back of his head too.
sorrowfool said:
lol, I never said Tray should have run away much less Zim? WTF?
Why would Zimmerman run away?
sorrowfool said:
Tray had every right to be there, but running just increased an all ready suspicious neighborhood watchman to his intentions. If Tray was indeed scared, given the layout diagram and where the incident happened, there is no way a short legged Zim could have caught up with Tray unless he hid in wait or doubled back.
If Tray was indeed scared, he could have easily made it to where his father was staying, no?
Can I get your source on that police statement?Bocefish said:
Ever seen a broken nose, had one? Because, as people commented from the police tapes, and can confirn in clear photos now, this nose doesn't appear broken, at ALL. Btw the first mention of a broken nose I can find isn't until March 25th, on an NBC interview with his former attorney, almost a month after the shooting.
Interview with Trayvon's brother. Neither of them seem to be the wannabe gangsters some would make out. We've heard plenty from Zimmerman's family, I think everyone should take 5 minutes and watch this, ask yourself how likely it is for this guys brother, this happy, horse-riding kid from a good family, to run away from and then attack a guy for no reason.
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/13/justice/florida-trayvon-brother/index.html?iref=allsearch
Bocefish said:
Eh all that's been released is a partial incident report from the responding officers, one noted that his nose was bleeding.
Whatever his "injuries", they were minor enough that the Fire Dept cleaned him up, said he was okay, and they took him to the station.
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Bocefish said:
We're blind? LOL. If you think that every Trayvon picture that pops up on the 'net is really him, then you're naive. You must be one of those people who sees the cover of The National Enquirer at the store and believes that Michael Jackson's ghost REALLY did appear at Beyonce and Jay-Z's wedding. :roll:
Bocefish said:
Yeah, it is disrespectful. I think when JickyJuly created this thread, it was to show how much her heart goes out to Trayvon's family. I don't think she intended for it to be turned into a "That bad Trayvon kid had it coming!" thread. If you don't give a shit about Trayvon and his family, fine. But stop getting all upset with the people who DO give a damn and DO want to see justice. The more I read from you in this thread, the more I'm convinced that you really don't have a heart.
So you've called Nordling an idiot, and you've called me and others on here are blind. I could call you an asshole who has no heart, but I won't do that.
If we take only firearms into account as you suggest (which I do not necessarily agree with, if firearms are involved in the vast majority of cases, the numbers are not going to be very skewed) and use the rolling three year trend you're using vs year on year that I did, you see a bump, but it's still also trending down and even in your chart near the original level. You want to make the claim that the bump is because of SYG, but I think that claim is fairly specious. The rate is back down to the level before SYG.Jupiter551 said:
But beyond that, it doesn't make much sense, which is why I raised my question originally. Nordling baldly stated that SYG was encouraging people to go out and commit homicide. Any such claim requires knowing the minds of the perpetrators which we obviously can't do unless they tell us. The reason SYG may or may not be a bad law is because it could be misused after the fact. I seriously doubt there are a bunch of residents in Florida who know about the law, want to kill someone, believe they can use SYG as a get out of jail free card, perform the act, and are finally able to convince investigators and possibly a judge/jury that it was legitimate.
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