The controversy around Simple Pickup charity donation

[Kunra9]

Kind of a long story so I'll try to summarize as best as I can.

Simple Pickup is a youtube channel featuring three guys who go around picking up women. They basically put out silly videos of them attempting to pick up random girls in "challenge" situations. Some times they pick up girls using Harry Potter references, some times they do it while in wheel chairs, while dressed horribly, etc. Their intent is to show guys that anyone can pick up girls in any situation, it's all about confidence etc etc.

Here's a quick example video of what they do:


They also have other videos where they interview girls and ask them raunchy questions, and they have a "simple tips" segment where they answer fan questions about situations etc.

So! Back in October, they created a new video. It was titled something like "Motorboating for the cure". They went out on the street with signs that read "1 motorboat = $20 for breast cancer charity". The idea being that for every girl that let them motorboat her, they would donate $20 to a breast cancer research group. The original clip is no longer on youtube, but here is a small cut of it from a different video website:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/ne...torboating-girls-Breast-Cancer-Awareness.html

I forget the exact amount, but they ended up raising about $2000 to donate to the group. They also pledged that for every 1000 likes their video received on youtube they would donate additional amounts of cash and ended up at an additional $5000 bringing the total to $7000ish.

After posting the video they took some flack and were accused of not really donating the money. So they posted a video of them making the donation online, and an email they received confirming their donation.

They were then further attacked for objectifying the women and were accused of tricking the women into allowing them to motorboat. So they posted a followup video of some of the original footage that had been edited out where it showed them explaining everything to the women, getting their full consent, and signing documentation allowing them to use them in their youtube video.

They continued to come under fire for objectifying the women and some people went so far as to contact the research group and put pressure on them to reject the money.

In the end, for fear of losing potential other donations for being associated with these guys, the research group refunded their money and asked the guys not to associate their group with any of their videos.

The guys then posted a video lashing out at those that put pressure on the research foundation, calling them "haters" and "radical feminists".

Now, I can understand the research group's position. You would never want to do anything to put yourself in a position to lose potential donations. I can understand how some people would find their means offensive. Absolutely.

However, at the same time, how do you reject the money? If the money had been obtained through illegal means then yeah ofcourse. But this money was raised through perfectly legal, albeit crude, methods. Couldn't the research group have accepted the donations, but denounced their actions? How can you really say you are about fighting breast cancer and reject any donation?

In the end, they searched around the country a bit, found a woman fighting breast cancer who was in financial need and donated the money directly to her. A anonymous person matched their donation to bring the total to $14k.
Here is a video of them visiting the woman and surprising her with the donation



So I'm curious how everyone here feels about this.
Do you think the group was right to reject the money? Wrong? Somewhere in between?

 

[Kunra9]

Oh, they also setup an indiegogo page for the girl the donation went to. In a day it has almost gained another $7,000 dollars.

 

[Gen]

In the end, for fear of losing potential other donations for being associated with these guys, the research group refunded their money and asked the guys not to associate their group with any of their videos.

The guys then posted a video lashing out at those that put pressure on the research foundation, calling them "haters" and "radical feminists".

Now, I can understand the research group's position. You would never want to do anything to put yourself in a position to lose potential donations. I can understand how some people would find their means offensive. Absolutely.

Do you think the group was right to reject the money? Wrong? Somewhere in between?

I think there's been a lot of talk recently about how objectifying a lot of breast cancer fundraising is ("save the titties!" and all that), which this would definitely fall under. It's an interesting situation because like you said, how do you say no to money, even if it's coming from kind of a shitty place? But with so many people talking back about it, I can see why organizations would not want to take it. I remember a while back, PornHub wanted to do a big breast cancer donation, and it was rejected too (http://thebottomline.as.ucsb.edu/2012/1 ... ion-denied). I can see why they would, it's not exactly great publicity for them and sort of sets their organization in a place of saying they agree with the objectification.

How obnoxious of the guys to call them haters and all that. :roll: It doesn't seem like a good response at all, just makes them look classless. That said, I'm glad they were able to put the money to good use.

 

[Bocefish]

Same thing happens when Gentleman's clubs/strip clubs or any remotely sexual entity tries to donate money... the non-profit organizations refuse it! If the donations come from a 100% legal source, I don't understand why any organization wouldn't gladly accept it. It's not as if the mob is doing you a "favor" and will come to collect their dues at a later date.

Yet somehow it is generally perceived as "dirty money.'' :dontknow:

 

[LaceyRoyce]

I was asked not to fundraise for a specific shelter any more for the same reason - they did not want to be associated with my 'line of work'.

I don't really have anything to say except that .. just because someone raises money for an organization does not mean the organization supports or is associated with what they do. I never claimed to have the support of that shelter, just that I SUPPORTED them and wanted people to donate to them.

 

[SexySteph]

I kind of get where the organization is coming from. Breast cancer fundraising is super sexualized and that's really not okay (breast cancer can cause you to LOSE YOUR BREAST! Why are we treating curing breast cancer like it's saving one of man's many pleasures?) so they probably didn't want to be associated with it because I would sound like they were supporting the sexualization of it. It was a business decision and a decision to not disrespect the women that actually suffer from breast cancer and do lose their breasts.

 

[LaceyRoyce]

I kind of get where the organization is coming from. Breast cancer fundraising is super sexualized and that's really not okay (breast cancer can cause you to LOSE YOUR BREAST! Why are we treating curing breast cancer like it's saving one of man's many pleasures?) so they probably didn't want to be associated with it because I would sound like they were supporting the sexualization of it. It was a business decision and a decision to not disrespect the women that actually suffer from breast cancer and do lose their breasts.

Devils advocate - Sex Sells.
Why else do we think camgirls were able to raise 14g for breast cancer awareness...
If aedan had organized a big bake sale i just dont see it generating the same amounts.

Peta is a perfect example.(not that i support them... )

 

[Camgirl]

You know, every woman who donated knew about what was going on. Who is it for OTHERS to decide they were being objectified if the actual women who took part in this did not see it that way? It is not like they were tricked. They weren't forced or manipulated. They have something called free will.

We are a society of nosy people on their soap boxes who feel the need to speak for others who can clearly speak for themselves. Had there not been such a stick about it from OTHERS that donation would have been accepted. I think it is ridiculous that the donation was rejected.

The prudishness from a country who uses sex to sell just about every single product is really astounding. I wonder if they would have rejected a donation from Victoria Secrets....I am sure there are plenty of feminists who feel that company objectifies women...

 

[SexySteph]

I kind of get where the organization is coming from. Breast cancer fundraising is super sexualized and that's really not okay (breast cancer can cause you to LOSE YOUR BREAST! Why are we treating curing breast cancer like it's saving one of man's many pleasures?) so they probably didn't want to be associated with it because I would sound like they were supporting the sexualization of it. It was a business decision and a decision to not disrespect the women that actually suffer from breast cancer and do lose their breasts.

Devils advocate - Sex Sells.
Why else do we think camgirls were able to raise 14g for breast cancer awareness...
If aedan had organized a big bake sale i just dont see it generating the same amounts.

Peta is a perfect example.(not that i support them... )

Sex sells, but is it respectful to victims of breast cancer to sexualizes a disease that many of them feel robs them of their sexuality? The example of PETA isn't really supportive to your arguement since these animals aren't being robbed of their sexuality by a disease that kills them and aren't in turn being held up as sexual objects. Which is exactly what sexualized breast cancer advertisements do.

Leading up to the fundraiser a big discussion point in my room was how we'd go about it without sexualizing the disease. (This was brought up by my members, not by myself.)

 

[Kunra9]

You know, every woman who donated knew about what was going on. Who is it for OTHERS to decide they were being objectified if the actual women who took part in this did not see it that way? It is not like they were tricked. They weren't forced or manipulated. They have something called free will.

We are a society of nosy people on their soap boxes who feel the need to speak for others who can clearly speak for themselves. Had there not been such a stick about it from OTHERS that donation would have been accepted. I think it is ridiculous that the donation was rejected.

The prudishness from a country who uses sex to sell just about every single product is really astounding. I wonder if they would have rejected a donation from Victoria Secrets....I am sure there are plenty of feminists who feel that company objectifies women...

Just to be clear, the women in the original video didn't donate any money. The money came out of the guys' pockets. The women agreed to be motorboated and filmed, and in exchange, the guys donated $20 to breast cancer research.

However, I agree with your point %100

I kind of get where the organization is coming from. Breast cancer fundraising is super sexualized and that's really not okay (breast cancer can cause you to LOSE YOUR BREAST! Why are we treating curing breast cancer like it's saving one of man's many pleasures?) so they probably didn't want to be associated with it because I would sound like they were supporting the sexualization of it. It was a business decision and a decision to not disrespect the women that actually suffer from breast cancer and do lose their breasts.

Sex sells, but is it respectful to victims of breast cancer to sexualizes a disease that many of them feel robs them of their sexuality? The example of PETA isn't really supportive to your arguement since these animals aren't being robbed of their sexuality by a disease that kills them and aren't in turn being held up as sexual objects. Which is exactly what sexualized breast cancer advertisements do.

I feel like these two points contradict eachother a bit. I definitely understand what you are trying to say though.

Sex definitely sells. And as much effort went in to making sure your fundraiser did not sexualize the disease, it's still fair to say that many of the people involved in raising money, may not have donated money on their own had they not been on a website that predominately sells sex.

Let's face it. Men (as a generalization) are motivated by sex. You throw a bunch of pictures of post-op mastectomies(spelling) and read a bunch of statistics to us, we will cringe and yawn and probably at most give money to make you stop showing us the pics and reading us stats.

But if you put a gorgeous sexy creature in front of us fully clothed, and say "want to see more? donate to breast cancer research", you watch how fast that donation counter rolls up.

I feel like, if your heart is in the right place, and your means are legal, there shouldn't be an issue.

 

[AprilKitt]

would you not feel a little bit guilty saying no to this? let's not pretend this was a totally non-coercive decision...
the problem isn't the individual women in this video, it's the idea. so yeah, maybe everyone in the video thought it was great! but there's also the very real possibility that one of them was really uncomfortable about it and did it anyway because they didn't want to seem selfish. and that's the problem here.
correct me if i'm wrong, but these men are donating the money themselves, right? why could they not just donate it?

 

[Camgirl]

would you not feel a little bit guilty saying no to this? let's not pretend this was a totally non-coercive decision...
the problem isn't the individual women in this video, it's the idea. so yeah, maybe everyone in the video thought it was great! but there's also the very real possibility that one of them was really uncomfortable about it and did it anyway because they didn't want to seem selfish. and that's the problem here.
correct me if i'm wrong, but these men are donating the money themselves, right? why could they not just donate it?

I am sure they were trying to create a buzz/publicity and draw attention to themselves and the cause. Either way, they have CLEARLY succeeded and I think the outcome was awesome!


I would absolutely NOT feel guilty saying no to this if I had a problem or felt some sort of violation. I am a grown woman and am in charge of myself and would not be guilted into letting someone make me feel sexually violated for a cancer donation. Yes, if someone felt uncomfortable and did it anyway there IS a problem, but not with the people who organized this. There is a problem with the women who did not simply say no. They were not forced. They were not pressured. They were not drugged...etc.etc.etc. They were given an explanation of what was going on, even had to read over a legal contract and sign it. If a grown woman is not strong enough to decline letting a guy motorboat them in the name of charity then they need to find some ways to be more assertive.

 

[Bocefish]

would you not feel a little bit guilty saying no to this? let's not pretend this was a totally non-coercive decision...
the problem isn't the individual women in this video, it's the idea. so yeah, maybe everyone in the video thought it was great! but there's also the very real possibility that one of them was really uncomfortable about it and did it anyway because they didn't want to seem selfish. and that's the problem here.
correct me if i'm wrong, but these men are donating the money themselves, right? why could they not just donate it?

Of course it was a little coercive. How else are you going to get strange women to allow you to motorboat thier boobies while filming it?

If an adult woman really doesn't want to participate but can't say no, she should probably go to therapy and find out why, then work on that. That's how I view it anyway. On the other hand, if she feels exremely guilty for saying no, she could always ease her own conscience by donating the $20 herself, or do something else charitable to ease her conscience. There's coercion everywhere you turn to buy something or give to charity.

These guys obviously had some other motive than just giving to charity. I'm not sure exactly what that was, but it's not their fault if a woman can't say no to something like that. I thought the whole thing was funny and glad women did participate. I even posted the video when it came out: https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/viewt ... torboating

:twocents-02cents:

 

[Reina Lynn]

What bothers me isn't whether the charity should or shouldn't take the money. Charities and organizations all have a right to decide what principles they deem most appropriate for their entity.

What bothers me is the hypocrisy. I'm fine that a charity wouldn't want to accept donations from certain sources. If that's a part of their policy, that's fine. They have the right to choose those policies. I don't like that they accepted the money and only returned it when there was an uproar about who the source was.

If they have no clear policies in place, I feel they should have told they protesters they were grateful for any donations and that the end goal was their most important overriding concept. If they did have policies in place about from whom donations should be accepted, they should have, at the get-to, told the men they appreciated the gesture and felt it was inappropriate for them to take the money.

What bothers me is that the money was fine for them until a small group protested in the name of another cause. I have little respect for people or entities who blow in whatever direction the slightest breeze takes them. I care about integrity. As long as one is in integrity with one's stated principles, I may not agree with them, but I can respect them. The hypocrisy is, to me, what is not worthy of respect -- not whether or not any certain charity should or shouldn't accept a donation based on the source.

I'm actually delighted that the money found its way to a specific person who can directly benefit. To me, charity does begin at home, and while I know charitable organizations can do great work, my personal interest is in seeing direct impact for the end user, not lining administrators pockets or paying office rent.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

What bothers me isn't whether the charity should or shouldn't take the money. Charities and organizations all have a right to decide what principles they deem most appropriate for their entity.

<<<snip snip snip>>>

Well spoken.

 

[AprilKitt]

@bocefish & camgirl
you guys are acting like this situation exists in a bubble. no, nobody was forced, but rape culture exists. sexism exists. women are constantly shamed and called bitchy and made to feel guilty for saying no and being assertive (and that shit can be really hard to unlearn!). if you watch the wheelchair video, it's obviously preying on that.
and again, i was not talking about how i think these women felt. i can't speak for them and i know that! i'm simply talking about the idea. like, "hey, let's try and make women uncomfortable for funsies like we always do..... but then say it's for charity so we look like the good guys and can call everyone that criticizes it heartless!" this is not about sex... i obviously don't object to sex lol. this is about treating women as sexual objects and not considering their feelings.
also, there is a (hopefully obvious) difference between coercing someone to donate to a charity and coercing someone to do something sexual!

(for the record i also think it's kind of silly what the charity did, even if i disagree with the video)

 

[Sevrin]

They could have just done whatever, collected the money and then sent a check or make an online donation without making a big deal about it, like a normal person would. Charities don't do background checks when someone sends them money like that.

They wanted to get promotional value for their channel out of the fact that they were raising money for a charity associated with tits. That's what the problem was.

PS: There are other cancers that kill a lot more women than breast cancer does, and that get less attention and donations.

 

[Bocefish]

@bocefish & camgirl
you guys are acting like this situation exists in a bubble. no, nobody was forced, but rape culture exists. sexism exists. women are constantly shamed and called bitchy and made to feel guilty for saying no and being assertive (and that shit can be really hard to unlearn!). if you watch the wheelchair video, it's obviously preying on that.
and again, i was not talking about how i think these women felt. i can't speak for them and i know that! i'm simply talking about the idea. like, "hey, let's try and make women uncomfortable for funsies like we always do..... but then say it's for charity so we look like the good guys and can call everyone that criticizes it heartless!" this is not about sex... i obviously don't object to sex lol. this is about treating women as sexual objects and not considering their feelings.
also, there is a (hopefully obvious) difference between coercing someone to donate to a charity and coercing someone to do something sexual!

(for the record i also think it's kind of silly what the charity did, even if i disagree with the video)

WOW! That's one way to look at it, I guess. While watching the the video I saw a bunch of guys & girls having fun, smiling, laughing and giggling... ultimately resulting in money being raised for a good cause. Thoughts of a rape culture existing, etc., never crossed my mind.

The rap video culture degrades women infinitely more than motorboating for charity ever could, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Camgirl]

@bocefish & camgirl
you guys are acting like this situation exists in a bubble. no, nobody was forced, but rape culture exists. sexism exists. women are constantly shamed and called bitchy and made to feel guilty for saying no and being assertive (and that shit can be really hard to unlearn!). if you watch the wheelchair video, it's obviously preying on that.
and again, i was not talking about how i think these women felt. i can't speak for them and i know that! i'm simply talking about the idea. like, "hey, let's try and make women uncomfortable for funsies like we always do..... but then say it's for charity so we look like the good guys and can call everyone that criticizes it heartless!" this is not about sex... i obviously don't object to sex lol. this is about treating women as sexual objects and not considering their feelings.
also, there is a (hopefully obvious) difference between coercing someone to donate to a charity and coercing someone to do something sexual!

(for the record i also think it's kind of silly what the charity did, even if i disagree with the video)

I appreciate your viewpoint on this, but I stand by my opinion. I think people are too sensitive these days and I feel like our country has really taken on a victim mentality. I find that disrespectful to true victims.

I am sorry if that sounds cold or callus.

 

[Kunra9]

The personal gains for these guys would absolutely be the exposure .

In the end, these guys ARE running a business. They make money off their youtube channel(I think anyway, I don't really know how youtube works). They also run workshops where they help guys learn what they do, etc.

Like most businesses that make donations, there is a business benefit. If their only motivation was "the cause" they would have made the donation anonymously, without telling a soul and say hell with it. I've worked at a couple of different casinos now, they all made donations to charity, and surprise surprise, they issued press releases, took pictures of giant checks with executives handing it to founders of charities, etc. It's good PR for the business, and it has a potential to bring in more business due to that exposure.

This was originally done in October which is national breast cancer awareness month in the US.

 

[AmberCutie]

I think people are too sensitive these days and I feel like our country has really taken on a victim mentality. I find that disrespectful to true victims.

I am sorry if that sounds cold or callus.

Amen to that.

 

[mynameisbob84]

@bocefish & camgirl
you guys are acting like this situation exists in a bubble. no, nobody was forced, but rape culture exists. sexism exists. women are constantly shamed and called bitchy and made to feel guilty for saying no and being assertive (and that shit can be really hard to unlearn!). if you watch the wheelchair video, it's obviously preying on that.
and again, i was not talking about how i think these women felt. i can't speak for them and i know that! i'm simply talking about the idea. like, "hey, let's try and make women uncomfortable for funsies like we always do..... but then say it's for charity so we look like the good guys and can call everyone that criticizes it heartless!" this is not about sex... i obviously don't object to sex lol. this is about treating women as sexual objects and not considering their feelings.
also, there is a (hopefully obvious) difference between coercing someone to donate to a charity and coercing someone to do something sexual!

(for the record i also think it's kind of silly what the charity did, even if i disagree with the video)

I appreciate your viewpoint on this, but I stand by my opinion. I think people are too sensitive these days and I feel like our country has really taken on a victim mentality. I find that disrespectful to true victims.

I am sorry if that sounds cold or callus.

This is pretty much my take too. Slut shaming, victim blaming (specifically when it pertains to rape), and obviously rape itself are huge cultural issues that need to be addressed, but I can't help but feel that we, as a society, are some times too eager to point to things that maybe rub us the wrong way but are ultimately harmless, and feverishly attempt to hold them up as being a product of/proof of a pervasive rape culture.

What the guys in the video did was a little cheeky, a little coercive (though no more so than approaching someone in the street and asking them for a charitable donation), and a little puerile ("I motorboated her boobies teehee")... but objectification? I'm not so sure. All the women who took part, did so of their own volition. Nobody forced them to do anything they weren't comfortable with and evidently they had no issues with having their boobies motorboated for charity. Like Camgirl pointed out, if the girls involved didn't feel objectified, it feels a tad pointless feeling objectified on their behalf. They're grown women and they're capable of making their own decisions. It would be like citing a cam girl flashing her boobies after a member requested it as the facilitation of the objectification of women and a product of rape culture. Again, nobody is doing anything they're not comfortable with, so to feel objectified on their behalf doesn't really achieve much :twocents-02cents:

 

[AprilKitt]

@bocefish & camgirl
you guys are acting like this situation exists in a bubble. no, nobody was forced, but rape culture exists. sexism exists. women are constantly shamed and called bitchy and made to feel guilty for saying no and being assertive (and that shit can be really hard to unlearn!). if you watch the wheelchair video, it's obviously preying on that.
and again, i was not talking about how i think these women felt. i can't speak for them and i know that! i'm simply talking about the idea. like, "hey, let's try and make women uncomfortable for funsies like we always do..... but then say it's for charity so we look like the good guys and can call everyone that criticizes it heartless!" this is not about sex... i obviously don't object to sex lol. this is about treating women as sexual objects and not considering their feelings.
also, there is a (hopefully obvious) difference between coercing someone to donate to a charity and coercing someone to do something sexual!

(for the record i also think it's kind of silly what the charity did, even if i disagree with the video)

I appreciate your viewpoint on this, but I stand by my opinion. I think people are too sensitive these days and I feel like our country has really taken on a victim mentality. I find that disrespectful to true victims.

I am sorry if that sounds cold or callus.

This is pretty much my take too. Slut shaming, victim blaming (specifically when it pertains to rape), and obviously rape itself are huge cultural issues that need to be addressed, but I can't help but feel that we, as a society, are some times too eager to point to things that maybe rub us the wrong way but are ultimately harmless, and feverishly attempt to hold them up as being a product of/proof of a pervasive rape culture.

What the guys in the video did was a little cheeky, a little coercive (though no more so than approaching someone in the street and asking them for a charitable donation), and a little puerile ("I motorboated her boobies teehee")... but objectification? I'm not so sure. All the women who took part, did so of their own volition. Nobody forced them to do anything they weren't comfortable with and evidently they had no issues with having their boobies motorboated for charity. Like Camgirl pointed out, if the girls involved didn't feel objectified, it feels a tad pointless feeling objectified on their behalf. They're grown women and they're capable of making their own decisions. It would be like citing a cam girl flashing her boobies after a member requested it as the facilitation of the objectification of women and a product of rape culture. Again, nobody is doing anything they're not comfortable with, so to feel objectified on their behalf doesn't really achieve much :twocents-02cents:

honestly i think we're just going in circles at this point so i'm probably gonna leave it alone after this, but:
this isn't about playing the victim! i'm not victimizing anybody! i'm just trying to say that the men at simple pickup make videos like this because they think it might be funny or whatever, without considering that the women they go up to are human and not just like, non-emoting robots that only exist to do funny sexy stuff to. and i will say yet again: the women's feelings are not what i am trying to discuss here. what i'm trying to say is that these men purposefully design their videos to make women uncomfortable... or at the very least don't think at all before they act, which can be harmful in this sort of situation.
the "camgirl flashing her boobs" comparison really doesn't make sense. most camgirls are HERE to flash our boobs, but i'm pretty sure women generally don't go to the beach to get motorboated lol. there's a big difference. also, i don't feel objectified, and i never said i did. i'm not talking about my personal feelings, i am talking about the way that these men treat women.
"you're over-analyzing" can be said during literally any debate about anything ever haha. i could just as easily say that you guys are all under-analyzing, and you need to look harder. see? easy to say, impossible to argue against, and doesn't actually mean anything.

if this isn't an example of rape culture to you, bob, then what is? (honest question! it's just kinda hard to word this without sounding upset lol, but i'm not)

 

[Bocefish]

Aside from the motorboating for charity video, I'm not all that familiar with what these guys do. I did watch a small portion of the wheelchair video, but I shut it down when the guy feigned trying to stand up because using a fake disability for attention pisses me off. If they're like other so-called pick-up artists I've seen on TV who run workshops... I don't agree with them using unwitting women in their so-called reasearch as lab rats. Now if the women are aware of what is going on and honestly act like they would normally do in certain situations, then that's different. Playing with women's real emotions or feelings just for social experimentation is something I totally disagree with.

:twocents-02cents:

 

[mynameisbob84]

@bocefish & camgirl
you guys are acting like this situation exists in a bubble. no, nobody was forced, but rape culture exists. sexism exists. women are constantly shamed and called bitchy and made to feel guilty for saying no and being assertive (and that shit can be really hard to unlearn!). if you watch the wheelchair video, it's obviously preying on that.
and again, i was not talking about how i think these women felt. i can't speak for them and i know that! i'm simply talking about the idea. like, "hey, let's try and make women uncomfortable for funsies like we always do..... but then say it's for charity so we look like the good guys and can call everyone that criticizes it heartless!" this is not about sex... i obviously don't object to sex lol. this is about treating women as sexual objects and not considering their feelings.
also, there is a (hopefully obvious) difference between coercing someone to donate to a charity and coercing someone to do something sexual!

(for the record i also think it's kind of silly what the charity did, even if i disagree with the video)

I appreciate your viewpoint on this, but I stand by my opinion. I think people are too sensitive these days and I feel like our country has really taken on a victim mentality. I find that disrespectful to true victims.

I am sorry if that sounds cold or callus.

This is pretty much my take too. Slut shaming, victim blaming (specifically when it pertains to rape), and obviously rape itself are huge cultural issues that need to be addressed, but I can't help but feel that we, as a society, are some times too eager to point to things that maybe rub us the wrong way but are ultimately harmless, and feverishly attempt to hold them up as being a product of/proof of a pervasive rape culture.

What the guys in the video did was a little cheeky, a little coercive (though no more so than approaching someone in the street and asking them for a charitable donation), and a little puerile ("I motorboated her boobies teehee")... but objectification? I'm not so sure. All the women who took part, did so of their own volition. Nobody forced them to do anything they weren't comfortable with and evidently they had no issues with having their boobies motorboated for charity. Like Camgirl pointed out, if the girls involved didn't feel objectified, it feels a tad pointless feeling objectified on their behalf. They're grown women and they're capable of making their own decisions. It would be like citing a cam girl flashing her boobies after a member requested it as the facilitation of the objectification of women and a product of rape culture. Again, nobody is doing anything they're not comfortable with, so to feel objectified on their behalf doesn't really achieve much :twocents-02cents:

honestly i think we're just going in circles at this point so i'm probably gonna leave it alone after this, but:
this isn't about playing the victim! i'm not victimizing anybody! i'm just trying to say that the men at simple pickup make videos like this because they think it might be funny or whatever, without considering that the women they go up to are human and not just like, non-emoting robots that only exist to do funny sexy stuff to. and i will say yet again: the women's feelings are not what i am trying to discuss here. what i'm trying to say is that these men purposefully design their videos to make women uncomfortable... or at the very least don't think at all before they act, which can be harmful in this sort of situation.
the "camgirl flashing her boobs" comparison really doesn't make sense. most camgirls are HERE to flash our boobs, but i'm pretty sure women generally don't go to the beach to get motorboated lol. there's a big difference. also, i don't feel objectified, and i never said i did. i'm not talking about my personal feelings, i am talking about the way that these men treat women.
"you're over-analyzing" can be said during literally any debate about anything ever haha. i could just as easily say that you guys are all under-analyzing, and you need to look harder. see? easy to say, impossible to argue against, and doesn't actually mean anything.

if this isn't an example of rape culture to you, bob, then what is? (honest question! it's just kinda hard to word this without sounding upset lol, but i'm not)

Examples of rape culture, to me, would be things like Steubenville: a drunk girl being repeatedly raped and her community and the local media blaming her and not her attackers. Or women being shamed for expressing their sexuality or having the audacity to wear something that doesn't cover every inch of their body. Or media that glamourises rape. Or a woman making a comment on a social media site and being bombarded with misogynist comments and sexual threats. These things are obviously not cool and I would argue it's these things that need to be challenged in society.

 

[LaughingLux]

"Pick up artists" in general is a problematic issue in our culture. I don't even want to get into how inappropriate it is to feign a physical difference (ie. the wheelchair) in order to 'pick up' a girl. That's disgusting. Another phenomenon that is so prevalent is companies using something as serious as cancer to make themselves look good. In the case of camgirls I think it's spectacular that they take individual charities and issues they care about to donate to. Please don't misunderstand me when I say companies.

Given that companies have been making all of this pink shit and saying how they will donate every time you buy it. They hype this up, advertise and make a big deal out of it so they will look good and make a bunch of profit for themselves when in reality they're barely donating anything per purchase. In this way I have a problem with these people. The fact that they are apparently making money off being pick up artists and that they wanted to further their fame in this way is horrendous. I don't care that they used their own tax deductible money to donate.

Also, how many times does the 'I think people are too sensitive' quote need to come up whenever serious issues are discussed? That's so minimizing to people's experiences. I don't live someone else's life so who am I to say they're being sensitive over their own individual experiences?

 

[Teagan]

"Pick up artists" in general is a problematic issue in our culture. I don't even want to get into how inappropriate it is to feign a physical difference (ie. the wheelchair) in order to 'pick up' a girl. That's disgusting.

I take a huge issue with this part. Mainly because it's something you do. "Feign a physical difference" I mean. We mostly all do. Do you wear makeup? Wash your hair? Cut it? Pluck/wax your eyebrows? Do your nails? All of this is feigning a physical difference vs what you would really look like with none of that. Add to that we wear deodorant and perfumes/cologne further lying about our natural selves. We shower and brush our teeth. I don't see anything wrong with it, but I do see something wrong with being disgusted with them for doing something you do yourself.

They went around in wheelchairs which is actually making them less likely to get a girl or pick her up. We however as cam models do ourselves up in a way to attract more people to find us better than what we look like naturally. (I mean this for the most part on a whole. I know not every girl does this.) They did it for attention and money. Um... so do we. If it's disgusting that they do it then it would be for you as well. Evens even.

As far as charities rejecting donations though i'm of the mindset they need to STFU and take the money. I don't care if it comes from pornstars, strippers or camgirls. It pisses me off when I see the Komen Foundation rejecting money when it's from a girl doing jobs like these. As if that woman is any less effected by breast cancer than a woman in an office would be. No. She has breasts just the same, and would like a cure as well.

I get their mindset is that it may effect others from donating as they took money from a source such as these but I think just how it's been said women need to stand up for themselves so do these foundations and charities. If it was mine to run if someone questioned a donation from strippers I would be very frank about it. "Money is money and a cure is a cure. I understand you both have differences but isn't it great how you both agree that this is an important cause you both support? " If anyone is not going to donate due to the fact I took money from strippers then I highly doubt they were gonna donate to begin with. Plus they obviously didn't give to much of a damn about the cause if they're going to let that effect a donation. I mean come on.

I also highly doubt when Komen comes out as refusing a donation if they then get a flood of other donations to make up for what they turned down. "No sorry strippers we dont need your 100k. We'll just put out a press release that we refused it and we'll get that much anyway." That to me is disgusting if it's true. I doubt it though that it works like that. When the Governor of Indiana (Mitch Daniels) tried to shut down Planned Parenthood instead of getting a bunch of support for his presidential race as he thought he would he got flack instead. He did not get thousands in donations and support from others at all. He was attacked. Instead PP got the support and donations flooding in to fight him. And they won. I think these charities need to realize that 100k donation may be the money they need for a cure, and they said no to it. For shame. Just as Laceys animal shelter should be ashamed of themselves for turning down her money. That could save animals lives, and turning it down makes me sick.

Yesterday at the store I bought 3 bags of groceries just to put into the donations stack for families for Christmas dinner. Would some of those families be disgusted if they knew that money that bought their meal came from a girl who jammed a dildo up her twat? Probably. Would they still be grateful for the donation? Gosh I hope so. Charity should just be see as charity regardless of who it comes from. We need to stop judging other people and just take their money and get over our own judgments of them.

 

[SexySteph]

"Pick up artists" in general is a problematic issue in our culture. I don't even want to get into how inappropriate it is to feign a physical difference (ie. the wheelchair) in order to 'pick up' a girl. That's disgusting.

I take a huge issue with this part. Mainly because it's something you do. "Feign a physical difference" I mean. We mostly all do. Do you wear makeup? Wash your hair? Cut it? Pluck/wax your eyebrows? Do your nails? All of this is feigning a physical difference vs what you would really look like with none of that. Add to that we wear deodorant and perfumes/cologne further lying about our natural selves. We shower and brush our teeth. I don't see anything wrong with it, but I do see something wrong with being disgusted with them for doing something you do yourself.

They went around in wheelchairs which is actually making them less likely to get a girl or pick her up. We however as cam models do ourselves up in a way to attract more people to find us better than what we look like naturally. (I mean this for the most part on a whole. I know not every girl does this.) They did it for attention and money. Um... so do we. If it's disgusting that they do it then it would be for you as well. Evens even.

I think Lux used the term physical difference because she didn't want to say handicapped as it's considered disrespectful by much of the differently abled community.

And using a FAKE physical ailment to pick up women is disgusting. Pick up artists are disgusting and these guys were using a physical ailment as a costume to get women, people who are actually confined to wheelchairs can't just turn it on and off.

Side note, I don't think the wheelchair makes dates less likely, I'd feel really awkward turning someone who was handicapped down for a date because I'd be afraid people would say that was the reason.

 

[CharlotteLace]

And using a FAKE physical ailment to pick up women is disgusting. Pick up artists are disgusting and these guys were using a physical ailment as a costume to get women, people who are actually confined to wheelchairs can't just turn it on and off.

Side note, I don't think the wheelchair makes dates less likely, I'd feel really awkward turning someone who was handicapped down for a date because I'd be afraid people would say that was the reason.

I agree. It feels more like a guilt trip to use a wheelchair to get dates. Because who really wants to be the girl who turns down a handicapped guy?

And yeah, we change our appearance to attract customers/attention, but don't we always gripe about models guilt-tripping members for money? Don't we generally dislike people who use fake sob stories to get what they desire? I think there's a huge difference between putting on makeup, and getting into a wheelchair. Both might be tactics for attention, but one exploits human sympathy and the other is just.. not exploitative. At all. A wheelchair is a drastic change, and as much as I didn't care about the whole donation drama, I think it's super unethical to pick up women using fake disabilities.

Edit: I really feel like my drunk post here might be misinterpreted as disrespectful to disabled people. But I really don't know how to explain my thoughts right now, so just know that's not my intention if it comes across that way.

 

[Teagan]

While I dont agree with their methods I dont feel they are disgusting. There are many who say what we do as a job is disgusting. People are fake to pick up other people all the time. I don't see this as any different. Lies are lies. It's disrespectful to those who are wheelchair bound for sure, but no different.

While you may not want to think being in a wheelchair is any less likely to get you a date that's simply not true. Otherwise we wouldn't have articles written to celebrate people who stay with their partner after they become disabled. Or disabled people finding love. It's far less likely to find a date as culturally on average most are not willing to date someone with disadvantages like wheelchairs.

I agree they used sympathy to get dates. We exploit sexuality instead. Both still exploitation though. We wear our sexy clothes, do our hair, just enough makeup for them to be attracted to us for the most part. While we see nothing wrong with camming and what we do they may not see anything wrong with what they're doing as well. Another person would see us in the wrong and not them. Yet another would see all parties wrong. Everyone has an opinion.