The Confederate Flag

[PunkInDrublic]

Popular topic lately, curious to know what those here think about it.

 

[Sevrin]

The Confederacy lost the war. It's a loser's flag that represents a shameful period in United States history. Its time has passed.

 

[JoleneBrody]

It is the flag of the Enemy, and represents an uprising against the United States. A government office should not be flying the flag of an uprising AGAINST the very government they are supposed to be representing and upholding.

 

[gonegirl2352]

Anyone who wants to keep it should shove it up their asses.

 

[Nordling]

Triumph says, "I love it, for me to poop on!"

 

[gingerhobbit]

The flag issue is sorta like gay marriage, climate change, evolution...it's 2015, why the fuck is this still even a discussion?

 

[Nordling]

Agree, but remember, there's still a Flat Earth Society.

 

[dilligaf0]

I think it has more to do with the fact nobody cared about the "historical significance" of that flag until it resurfaced in the early 60's in protest of the then growing civil rights movement.


It should be removed permanently.

 

[ACFFAN69]

It seems to me like a symbol of hate and any reasonable person should be happy with abolishing it considering slavery was such a important part of the civil war (regardless of if it was for economic or moral reasons). I appreciate the idea of state rights, but isn't there a more positive icon to represent that with?

I feel like there's an argument I'm missing, because it seems pretty cut and dry to me. I've tried listening to the other side of the argument and haven't heard anything convincing.

 

[Snowie1969]

We have had similar discussions here in Europe about, say, the swastika (banned in most European countries that suffered German occupation) and in my own little country about Zwarte Piet. Personally i think Piet should be rebooted to make him look less like a negroid stereotype (complete with clumsy and foolish behaviour) with servants clothes to St Nick's top spy who can shapechange and who's natural state is that of a pitchblack human in colourfull but dignified clothes..

Sadly this debate will probably go on here for a while because us Dutch, in that respect, are as racist as hell.. We do not want to have our traditions change because someone is offended by them... (personally, having played a Zwarte Piet for 10 years, I'd welcome the change!)

 

[ramblin]

I'd be happy to see Mississippi come up with a new flag design (and Georgia, though they use the First National Flag of the Confederacy, which is less recognized). I'm happy that South Carolina took the Battle Flag down from the State House dome in 2000, and I'd be happy to see the one next to the Civil War monument come down for good as well, especially given how prominently the monument sits on the approach to the State House.

I'm firmly against banning it outright. Confederate symbology has a place in historical education, and in art, just as Nazi symbology does. I'm against banning Dukes of Hazzard and I'm against banning Raiders of the Lost Ark. I think the Union made a mistake in banning Life of Stonewall Jackson and Macaria, and that Bavaria made a mistake in restricting the publication of Mein Kampf. It's important that we not lose knowledge of our past, however distasteful, and continue to discuss it, debate it, and learn from it.

Hate speech and fighting words will continue to be difficult to define, and strongly influenced by context, and that context will shift with time. At this time, as we begin one of the more serious and overdue reevaluations of institutional racism in decades, it seems obvious that all local and state governments, now protected in their decision to define their government speech by the Walker ruling, should be working to align their speech with the principles of equal protection. More importantly, they should be working to align their actions with these principles.

 

[Sevrin]

It seems to me like a symbol of hate and any reasonable person should be happy with abolishing it considering slavery was such a important part of the civil war (regardless of if it was for economic or moral reasons). I appreciate the idea of state rights, but isn't there a more positive icon to represent that with?

I feel like there's an argument I'm missing, because it seems pretty cut and dry to me. I've tried listening to the other side of the argument and haven't heard anything convincing.

The South was opposed to states' rights, specifically to the northern states unwillingness to abide by the federal Fugitive Slave Act, which required them to return fugitive slaves to their owners in the South.

 

[Shaun__]

The only reason I care anything about that dusty old hate flag is because of the Dukes of Hazzard. I hope they can get a reboot with a red, white, and blue American flag muscle car in the future. Maybe they could be running medical cannabis to patients in crooked towns, instead of moonshine.

 

[bawksy]

Having lived my entire life north of the Mason-Dixon line, I don't feel that I know enough about the culture behind the continued showing of the flag to have an educated opinion on the matter. It's funny to watch everyone else freak out over it though.

 

[Sevrin]

Having lived my entire life north of the Mason-Dixon line, I don't feel that I know enough about the culture behind the continued showing of the flag to have an educated opinion on the matter. It's funny to watch everyone else freak out over it though.

Slavery in general was pretty hilarious, amirite?

 

[Misono]

Don't ban the flag at all, let people keep it, and fly it as they see fit.

If anything, it'll let other people know where the moronic fucktards are.

 

[BritneySiren]

I think of it similar to having flags from britain cause ya know " it's history" ... seems silly to me

 

[Jesse0328]

1. States having Confederate elements incorporated into their flag: silly considering they were re-admitted into the union over 100 years ago.
2. Monuments, museums, Civil War reenactors, etc: Displaying the flag in those settings is appropriate. Being a Confederate Civil War reenactor doesn't make you a racist.

 

[ga5457]

1. States having Confederate elements incorporated into their flag: silly considering they were re-admitted into the union over 100 years ago.
2. Monuments, museums, Civil War reenactors, etc: Displaying the flag in those settings is appropriate. Being a Confederate Civil War reenactor doesn't make you a racist.

I agree with this. The main problem I have with the flag being banned on government property is where will the banning stop? Will the monuments, street names and city names be next? Will they start banning anything that offends some other group of people? I think the citizens of South Carolina should have been able to vote on it.

 

[ramblin]

I agree with this. The main problem I have with the flag being banned on government property is where will the banning stop? Will the monuments, street names and city names be next? Will they start banning anything that offends some other group of people? I think the citizens of South Carolina should have been able to vote on it.

They elected their representatives. The representatives voted. That's pretty much how it works. If SC citizens want moar battle flags, they can vote their representatives out next term.

 

[eclipse76]

Banning Dukes of Hazzard and Apple banning wargames having the Confederate flag are both really stupid moves.
Though I'm not surprised coming from Apple

 

[dilligaf0]

Banning Dukes of Hazzard and Apple banning wargames having the Confederate flag are both really stupid moves.
Though I'm not surprised coming from Apple

Just to be clear, nobody banned the Dukes of Hazzard.
A TV network chose to stop showing it due to the controversy, just like so many stations chose to stop showing "The Cosby Show" after that controversy started.
But it is not illegal to show the "Dukes". It won't be illegal to have the confederate flag or to fly it on your own property.
It just wouldn't be on government buildings.

 

[gonegirl2352]

Not to threadjack but, have y'all seen the Russian straight flag?

 

[gingerhobbit]

Being a Confederate Civil War reenactor doesn't make you a racist.

Just makes you more likely to be a 40-year-old virgin.

 

[Jesse0328]

Just makes you more likely to be a 40-year-old virgin.

A sizable percentage of reenactors are history buffs who are mostly there to educate the public. Many units have members who go around to schools, hold workshops and other functions. I may have participated in a reenactment or two, and outside of the "battle," reenactments events are pretty much just tent camping, except you're wearing period clothes.

 

[ramblin]

So, of course we're talking about Mississippi now, but what about Georgia?

I just listened to Jimmy Carter expressing pride on PBS that Georgia had done away with the confederate symbols in their state flag. I guess he was referring to the unofficial 1879 flag, since every flag since then has been based on the First National Flag of the Confederacy (1879-1902, 2003-present), the Battle Flag (1956-2001), or incorporated both in a little "Georgia's History" nod (2001-2003).

Confederate Flags

(First National Flag, Battle Flag (upper left quadrant of Second and Third National Flags)

Georgia Flags

(??-1879, 1879-1902, 1902-1906, 1906-1920, 1920-1956, 1956-2001, 2001-2003, 2003-present)

 

[Shaun__]

So, of course we're talking about Mississippi now, but what about Georgia?

I just listened to Jimmy Carter expressing pride on PBS that Georgia had done away with the confederate symbols in their state flag. I guess he was referring to the unofficial 1879 flag, since every flag since then has been based on the First National Flag of the Confederacy (1879-1902, 2003-present), the Battle Flag (1956-2001), or incorporated both in a little "Georgia's History" nod (2001-2003).

(??-1879, 1879-1902, 1902-1906, 1906-1920, 1920-1956, 1956-2001, 2001-2003, 2003-present)

I remember our state flag coming up at work in a conversation a year or so ago. We had to go to Wikipedia to see what it was, we had all assumed it was still the super ugly 2001-2003 flag. I am sure somebody cares about our state flag, but I have never met them.

 

[ga5457]

Well, it has started like I thought it would. The Atlanta Ga NAACP wants to have Stone Mountain sand blasted to remove the faces of the Confederate Generals.

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2015/07...-jefferson-and-jackson-off-of-stone-mountain/

 

[Sevrin]

Well, it has started like I thought it would. The Atlanta Ga NAACP wants to have Stone Mountain sand blasted to remove the faces of the Confederate Generals.

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2015/07...-jefferson-and-jackson-off-of-stone-mountain/

Kind of like the Ukrainians pulling down statues of Stalin, don't you think?

 

[gingerhobbit]

Well, it has started like I thought it would. The Atlanta Ga NAACP wants to have Stone Mountain sand blasted to remove the faces of the Confederate Generals.

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2015/07...-jefferson-and-jackson-off-of-stone-mountain/

Hate when the black folk get all uppity and shit?