AmberCutie's Forum
An adult community for cam models and members to discuss all the things!

The Age-Play Debate Thread

  • ** WARNING - ACF CONTAINS ADULT CONTENT **
    Only persons aged 18 or over may read or post to the forums, without regard to whether an adult actually owns the registration or parental/guardian permission. AmberCutie's Forum (ACF) is for use by adults only and contains adult content. By continuing to use this site you are confirming that you are at least 18 years of age.
Status
Not open for further replies.
I understand the power dynamic of age play and why people enjoy it. I'm totally cool with anyone being into and enjoying it.

But holy hell, it squicks me out when someone's first interaction with me on cam or on a hookup site involves age play. I am very uncomfortable any time someone just dives into a role play that I'm not into without asking me first.
 
JickyJuly said:
VeronicaChaos said:
Also, gosh, I would love to get a member's perspective who's into this.
Secondary question, do you (those of you who are into this fetish) consider age play the same fantasy for both parties? Non-consent fantasy is usually a way for the partner who is playing the victim to feel free. This often appeals to women because they don't have to feel guilty or worry about being slut shamed. What is the fantasy for the other partner?

I'm not a member but as someone who is also into being the older person... I like the younger person being gullible. It just turns me on that they would believe anything I say and that I could convince them to do something they probably shouldn't. "Yes you should definitely let me touch you there, it will feel good" and "no of course, I won't show anyone this video I'm taking". So I guess the fantasy really is just taking advantage of someone. I'm not a bad person I swear :oops:

Psychologically speaking, if the other person has to trust you and go along with what you say because they are inexperienced then they can't really reject you or find you perverse..
 
The reason I think some people (certainly myself) are uncomfortable with age-related role-playing going on is that not everyone accepts that these sorts of fantasies (specifically talking about ones where one party is acting "underage") purely take the place of real offending, but that rather they can normalize and validate behavior that isn't ever going to be acceptable in society.

Acting out and reinforcing urges to do something don't kill the urge. You don't see heroin addicts shooting up syringes of water thinking it will stop them wanting to score.

In regards to violent video games, it's different in that people who play video games generally don't do it because they enjoy violence, though a few might - most are interested in the action, the storyline, etc, and anyone who's been involved in or seen actual violence or gun play immediately knows a video game is nothing much like that.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the practice of age-play between two consenting adults, what I would have concerns about are some of the deeper fantasies this is fuelling.

For example I understand fully that some of this involves a desire to be validated by the other person, or to completely rely on the other person etc and that's fine, but can it be done in a fantasy setting that doesn't involve roleplaying sexual abuse? I understand for example the "daddies" wanting to give to a younger woman, but I can separate the desire to shower a woman (of any age) with gifts, and even maybe "look after them" if I felt like it, from calling them a little girl or my daughter. Ugh.

I can also understand wanting to be treated like that by an older person, especially a wealthy one, but that's YOUR side of the fantasy, what I don't get is the male side of the fantasy.

As I said I get all the taking-care-of-someone bit, and giving rather than receiving...but you can do all that with out a "daddy" and "little girl" theme, right?
 
Jupiter551 said:
The reason I think some people (certainly myself) are uncomfortable with age-related role-playing going on is that not everyone accepts that these sorts of fantasies (specifically talking about ones where one party is acting "underage") purely take the place of real offending, but that rather they can normalize and validate behavior that isn't ever going to be acceptable in society.

Acting out and reinforcing urges to do something don't kill the urge. You don't see heroin addicts shooting up syringes of water thinking it will stop them wanting to score.

In regards to violent video games, it's different in that people who play video games generally don't do it because they enjoy violence, though a few might - most are interested in the action, the storyline, etc, and anyone who's been involved in or seen actual violence or gun play immediately knows a video game is nothing much like that.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the practice of age-play between two consenting adults, what I would have concerns about are some of the deeper fantasies this is fuelling.

For example I understand fully that some of this involves a desire to be validated by the other person, or to completely rely on the other person etc and that's fine, but can it be done in a fantasy setting that doesn't involve roleplaying sexual abuse? I understand for example the "daddies" wanting to give to a younger woman, but I can separate the desire to shower a woman (of any age) with gifts, and even maybe "look after them" if I felt like it, from calling them a little girl or my daughter. Ugh.

I can also understand wanting to be treated like that by an older person, especially a wealthy one, but that's YOUR side of the fantasy, what I don't get is the male side of the fantasy.

As I said I get all the taking-care-of-someone bit, and giving rather than receiving...but you can do all that with out a "daddy" and "little girl" theme, right?

Yay! A member opinion! :D

I want to say that I really genuinely do not think that us that participate in ageplay are normalizing a behavior in the way that you and many people think. I am strongly against any real acts with a real minor. Question, do you think people who participate in rape fantasies are normalizing a behavior to rape? Genuinely curious!

You can do it without all the daddy and little girl stuff, yes. But for some people, me included, that is a big part of what I like. I also want to say that while I call my SO daddy, he doesn't call me his daughter and I know a lot of relationships like this are like that as well. Daddy, in a lot of cases, is just a nickname I suppose.

The section about "killing the urge" kind of bothers me. Like my boyfriend isn't participating in this with me to kill an urge. He has no urges to go and do something with a child. There just isn't an urge to kill with a lot of people who ageplay.

I am trying to convince my boyfriend to come and give a male perspective of someone who is involved in this. It is really hard to explain a lot of this!
 
Jupiter551 said:
The reason I think some people (certainly myself) are uncomfortable with age-related role-playing going on is that not everyone accepts that these sorts of fantasies (specifically talking about ones where one party is acting "underage") purely take the place of real offending, but that rather they can normalize and validate behavior that isn't ever going to be acceptable in society.

Acting out and reinforcing urges to do something don't kill the urge. You don't see heroin addicts shooting up syringes of water thinking it will stop them wanting to score.

In regards to violent video games, it's different in that people who play video games generally don't do it because they enjoy violence, though a few might - most are interested in the action, the storyline, etc, and anyone who's been involved in or seen actual violence or gun play immediately knows a video game is nothing much like that.

It's actually extremely similar:

People who practice age-play generally don't do it because they enjoy having sex with children, though a few might - most are interested in the taboo, the roleplaying, etc. and anyone who's been involved in or seen actual pedophilia immediately knows age play is not that.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the practice of age-play between two consenting adults, what I would have concerns about are some of the deeper fantasies this is fuelling.

For example I understand fully that some of this involves a desire to be validated by the other person, or to completely rely on the other person etc and that's fine, but can it be done in a fantasy setting that doesn't involve roleplaying sexual abuse? I understand for example the "daddies" wanting to give to a younger woman, but I can separate the desire to shower a woman (of any age) with gifts, and even maybe "look after them" if I felt like it, from calling them a little girl or my daughter. Ugh.

I can also understand wanting to be treated like that by an older person, especially a wealthy one, but that's YOUR side of the fantasy, what I don't get is the male side of the fantasy.

As I said I get all the taking-care-of-someone bit, and giving rather than receiving...but you can do all that with out a "daddy" and "little girl" theme, right?
At that point, why do we like or seek out any fetishes? I'm personally extremely aware of why I have mine, from my own knowledge about my childhood, but unless I'm paying you 100 bucks an hour I don't really think it's anybody's business as to why I do.

I think fetishes are extremely interesting because I think a lot of them are related to our pasts and figuring out how to relate to the world/ourselves. Like dreams. I think they can be valuable tools for coping with life. Everybody reacts to things differently.

For me, the answer is simple: because it's fun.
 
LailaBaise said:
I would like to know though, why is it acceptable to use the phrase "rape play", but when it comes to this it's skirted around and called "age-play" rather than "paedophila play"? Why not call a spade a spade?
because, as wiki sums up "Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger" which is just not a description that fits most of the people who are into age play at all.
I think the term "consensual non-consent" is a better descriptor for 'rape play.' Like age play it's so much more to do with power dynamics and control then it is about wanting the taboo thing to take place. rape fantasies are actually one of the most common fantasies for women, but whenever it's been studied it's always super super clear that there isn't a correlation between rape fantasies, (or even acting out those fantasies in a consensual setting,) and wanting to be raped.
Similarly, the majority of the people who engage in age play don't want to have sex with children, and therefore labeling them pedophiles or "play" pedophiles would be inaccurate and would probably add to the confusion a lot are having with this topic. for example, generally 'littles' want to feel safe, innocent, and cared for.. not to actually be children. And 'daddies' in general want to feel responsible and needed while they participate in consensual relationships with adults.. not to have sex with children. I feel like that distinction is the hardest part to grasp about this fetish, and it's what makes discussions like this so hard to have

edit: I'm bad at grammar
 
LailaBaise said:
VeronicaChaos said:
...I'd really like us all to be adults here...
lol

I would like to know though, why is it acceptable to use the phrase "rape play", but when it comes to this it's skirted around and called "age-play" rather than "paedophila play"? Why not call a spade a spade?


I know I was the one who used the term rape play though I actually rarely use it. With that said, I have no problem with people using it. It is role playing rape. I do not consider age play to be role playing pedophilia, at least not always. Age play doesn't have to be one person acting like a child. Age play could be someone acting any age they are not. While most common we hear about age play being the minor/adult theme there are some people who roleplay as elderly people and what not. So calling it pedophilia play doesn't really make since for it's definition.
 
I think a huge issue people can have with this type of play is that you never really do know someone elses intentions or thoughts. Yes you could be acting as the little and your bf could be acting as the daddy and for you it is about playing the safe innocent one and all you can really do is hope your bf is just being a nurturing daddy. Do you really know what he is actually thinking though? No... You dont. Cause its not like someone is gonna tell you flat out they are thinking and pretending and fantasizing in their own head that you're a child. Just like if you're doing rape play you do not know that the guy is not actually fantasizing about real rape. Or the guy who enjoys vore fetish isnt really thinking of eating someone. You do not know other peoples true thoughts on things and people are smart to keep illegal and disgusting aspects of themselves a secret and not let out the truth. Similarly as much as you tell the guy who is paying you on cam that it is a fantasy and he can tell you all day he understands and isnt into children the fact is you dont know for sure what he is actually thinking and doing. The guy who buys the video on C4S could be doing the same thing and thinking of you as a kid.

Also like people call marijuana a gateway drug (bullshit i know) people similarly look at age play and rape play as a gateway play to possibly move on to the real thing. Real pedophiles and rapists do start somewhere. Just like serial killers usually start small with animals and move to people. Pedophiles and rapists usually start looking online these days before going out and doing it for real. They buy videos and so on. No not all do go out and make it a reality i understand but it all works the same. You as a provider of this play DO potentially act as a gateway or small step to someone doing the real thing or at least thinking of the real thing. You have no way of knowing if you are or arent though, but you know very well it is a possibility.

You can tell yourself all you want what a fetish is to you but that will never mean that stands for the other person participating. Youre both consenting and adults but truly knowing what the other person is feeling you cant ever know really. I dont care if its a bf/husband/cam member/ or video buyer. How many people come out after someone is caught murdering, raping, molesting, etc and say "oh i never knew they were like that, they seemed so nice, i knew them 20 years, blah blah." Cause these people are not always morons and they know how to play their true emotions close to the vest. Saying the majority of people who enjoy this fetish or that one dont wanna actually have sex with kids, eat someone, kill them, rape someone just is not a fact but something I think people say to defend a fetish that for them is innocent play. And that's understandable. Yes describe what it means to you all you want. The actual fact is that you have no way to know the other parties thoughts cause it's not like they are gonna tell you the truth if they do really wanna do that stuff. Hell some may even be in the stage of denying it to themselves.

I am all for consenting acts being between adults and what happens in a bedroom is between them but im also a realistic person in that people lie about their true dirty thoughts on things and that should always be kept in mind.
 
Hi guys, I usually try to stay away from controversial topics in fear of saying something completely politically incorrect and offending someone but this is a subject that I've often thought a lot about.

I understand the fetish from the standpoint of wanting to role play the innocent/helpless/inexperienced vs dominant/teacher/caretaker roles. What I don't understand is why a numerical age number has to be stated in all this. That's the part that bothers me.

People have come into my room (more so in the past) and said I look younger than 18, but happy about it. Someone was excited and said I could pass for a 14 year old... This, this creeps me out guys. Heck, someone even said I was so cute and looked like their daughter! That person wasn't even trying to be creepy about it, it just sort of slipped out of their mouths but whoa. Then I started wondering if I was doing something to encourage this behaivior.

For example, I'm young looking, genualy like cartoons and tend to look more innocent than not. I like dresses and frilly things and pink bows a lot. I'm not doing it to fit into a role play category, that truly is just me. It would be unfair to accuse me of "pedobaiting" (is what it's called?). But like I said, when I first started MFC I would attract that crowd. In due time I started figuring out certain things that would trigger such behaivior and would make it a point to stay away from it. But sometimes I get in my head about where the lines lay. Is saying "I'm a good girl" considered age play? Is playing Disney music while stripping pushing the envelope?

And true, between two consenting adults everything is cool. But when someone specifically looks up someone that LOOKS underage (not just acts it...) That's the part I don't understand. There is legal 3D animated porn out there that simulates children, toddlers even, and there is an audience for it. Where do we draw the line? Is it ok because it's between a person and a computer program? Is it ok because it's just a "fetish" and it only exists in a person's imagination?

The psyche in fetishes has always intrigued and facinated me, mostly in a positive light of course. But sometimes I can't help but wonder that just because someone isn't physically engaging in that specific behavior, if it can still have an unhealthy release in other aspects of that person's life.

I hope that makes sense :shifty:
 
The dynamic really boils down to the power exchange involved, with both rape play and age play. I used to be very active in the local kink community and participated in extensive discussions about both dynamics. I'm about to get a little psychological here, because that was part of the discussion back then. Obviously, I can't explain why every person is in to it, this is just what local folks who are into it explained.

In both, a lot of the attraction is being completely in control/having no control. I love having a partner take me willy-nilly whenever and wherever because I don't want to be in control during sex. For me, this isn't the usual "not having to feel guilty about it" that's attributed to the reason so many women have rape fantasies. It's because I am in control of so many things in my non-sexual life, it's nice to have one area where I can let go and not be in charge of shit. Honestly, 50 Shades would have made more sense if Christian was a bottom, because you see a lot of couples in the kink lifestyle where the one who's in a position of power at work and is the breadwinner is the bottom. My husband and I were like that, with me making more money and being a "control freak" about managing the household, but completely letting go of responsibility in bed. For many age players, it's that same not having to be in charge of anything that appeals to Littles. In addition, some want to re-play their childhood in some way, maybe improve on things that happened then.

Now, the flip side, the people in charge - with age play, the reason that some of these people do this is that they weren't the best parents and they want a second chance. Maybe they're not in charge of much in their personal lives and love being able to take charge in the bedroom. It's not that they actually want to fuck a kid or rape someone, so much as enjoying the level of control over the other person in that situation. The taboo aspect of the dynamic can have a bit of appeal, just like anal sex and tying people up and hitting them with things.

Among the people who I know who engage in age play Irl, the younger the little plays, the less it is about sex to either party, and the more it is about the nurturing and caring aspect. Those who play as teens often include sex into the dynamic, whereas those who play as a pre-pubescent or toddler seem less likely to include sex. Every little finds the age that they enjoy playing at, which is not always what they expect to enjoy going in one I know expected to enjoy playing as a baby, but ended up finding her age to be around three.

Again, this is just what people I have interacted with IRL have explained, and isn't going to cover everyone.
 
I agree with everything @teagan_tate stated.

And also, this confuses me.

SaffronBurke said:
the younger the little plays, the less it is about sex to either party, and the more it is about the nurturing and caring aspect.

I was under the impression that a "fetish" always revolved around some sort of SEXUAL gratification. Because in that case,, couldn't two people that love playing chess with each other also be a fetish? :think: Or many other things come to mind...

I get really confused with this. I sometimes wonder about certain acts being thrown under the "fetish" umbrella and then all of a sudden its ok...

(Hope I don't sound ignorant, I'm just genuinely confused).

-edited to make more sense
 
So, if the person playing the grown human gets to feel powerful and not reject-able, and the person playing the not grown human gets to feel nurtured and free, why not just be those things without including the age element? A person can be naive and needy without being underage. I think, for me at least, that's the question. Child abuse is such a dark thing, and whether or not it's your focus taking part in age play, it is what you're acting out. Even if there's zero chance of anyone involved hurting a child or anyone involved even being interested in hurting a child, why delve into that? It does seem to make light of child abuse, and that feels disrespectful and icky.
 
JickyJuly said:
So, if the person playing the grown human gets to feel powerful and not reject-able, and the person playing the not grown human gets to feel nurtured and free, why not just be those things without including the age element? A person can be naive and needy without being underage. I think, for me at least, that's the question. Child abuse is such a dark thing, and whether or not it's your focus taking part in age play, it is what you're acting out. Even if there's zero chance of anyone involved hurting a child or anyone involved even being interested in hurting a child, why delve into that? It does seem to make light of child abuse, and that feels disrespectful and icky.
For me, the videos I've filmed and the play I've done in my personal life, it has never ever included anything underage or implied. In all my personal play it's always been, "oh you're so inexperienced and gullible but let me teach you....". In all the videos I've filmed, it's always been "oh, you're a grown man now..."


oh_alex said:
I was under the impression that a "fetish" always revolved around some sort of SEXUAL gratification. Because in that case,, couldn't two people that love playing chess with each other also be a fetish? :think: Or many other things come to mind...

I get really confused with this. I sometimes wonder about certain acts being thrown under the "fetish" umbrella and then all of a sudden its ok...

(Hope I don't sound ignorant, I'm just genuinely confused).

-edited to make more sense
Maybe it's just because I'm in the parenting a toddler stage and have a serious lack of time for privacy or sex, but not all fetish play has to have sex or orgasms, or even resemble gratification at all, to be sexually fulfilling. Got exactly one minute in the kitchen? That's more than enough time for a quick bit of fetish play without sex. Add enough of those minutes over the course of two weeks to a month and there's no need for foreplay when we finally get time for sex. There's been more times than I can count that my only form of sexual satisfaction at all for ~2-3 months was that 30 seconds of play time in the kitchen before we lost any privacy. To someone not involved in my fetish or who didn't know what happened in my relationship behind closed doors it would just look like weird, rushed abuse for no reason without any sort of sexual gratification behind it. :twocents-02cents:
 
oh_alex said:
I agree with everything @teagan_tate stated.

And also, this confuses me.

SaffronBurke said:
the younger the little plays, the less it is about sex to either party, and the more it is about the nurturing and caring aspect.

I was under the impression that a "fetish" always revolved around some sort of SEXUAL gratification. Because in that case,, couldn't two people that love playing chess with each other also be a fetish? :think: Or many other things come to mind...

I get really confused with this. I sometimes wonder about certain acts being thrown under the "fetish" umbrella and then all of a sudden its ok...

(Hope I don't sound ignorant, I'm just genuinely confused).

-edited to make more sense

Some fetishes are more about the psychological effect than they are about overtly sexual gratification. You see this even with impact play - while sex acts may not be involved, both parties enjoy the unique euphoria that the activity causes.

- Rose explained it way better, honestly.
 
SaffronBurke said:
oh_alex said:
I agree with everything @teagan_tate stated.

And also, this confuses me.

SaffronBurke said:
the younger the little plays, the less it is about sex to either party, and the more it is about the nurturing and caring aspect.

I was under the impression that a "fetish" always revolved around some sort of SEXUAL gratification. Because in that case,, couldn't two people that love playing chess with each other also be a fetish? :think: Or many other things come to mind...

I get really confused with this. I sometimes wonder about certain acts being thrown under the "fetish" umbrella and then all of a sudden its ok...

(Hope I don't sound ignorant, I'm just genuinely confused).

-edited to make more sense

Some fetishes are more about the psychological effect than they are about overtly sexual gratification. You see this even with impact play - while sex acts may not be involved, both parties enjoy the unique euphoria that the activity causes.

- Rose explained it way better, honestly.
Yea, that's the part that I have to have to be happy at all. If I don't get that brain stimulation from fetish play, then I'm not going to be happy in any areas of my life at all. My fetish permeates all of me and if I go too long without any play I just can't be happy. :dontknow:
 
Jupiter551 said:
The reason I think some people (certainly myself) are uncomfortable with age-related role-playing going on is that not everyone accepts that these sorts of fantasies (specifically talking about ones where one party is acting "underage") purely take the place of real offending, but that rather they can normalize and validate behavior that isn't ever going to be acceptable in society.

Acting out and reinforcing urges to do something don't kill the urge. You don't see heroin addicts shooting up syringes of water thinking it will stop them wanting to score.

In regards to violent video games, it's different in that people who play video games generally don't do it because they enjoy violence, though a few might - most are interested in the action, the storyline, etc, and anyone who's been involved in or seen actual violence or gun play immediately knows a video game is nothing much like that.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the practice of age-play between two consenting adults, what I would have concerns about are some of the deeper fantasies this is fuelling.

For example I understand fully that some of this involves a desire to be validated by the other person, or to completely rely on the other person etc and that's fine, but can it be done in a fantasy setting that doesn't involve roleplaying sexual abuse? I understand for example the "daddies" wanting to give to a younger woman, but I can separate the desire to shower a woman (of any age) with gifts, and even maybe "look after them" if I felt like it, from calling them a little girl or my daughter. Ugh.

I can also understand wanting to be treated like that by an older person, especially a wealthy one, but that's YOUR side of the fantasy, what I don't get is the male side of the fantasy.

As I said I get all the taking-care-of-someone bit, and giving rather than receiving...but you can do all that with out a "daddy" and "little girl" theme, right?

Like most fetishes, I have no personal knowledge. If its not a turn on than I either I am just confused or in this case squeamish.
I also think Tegan is correct we simply can't know what evil lurks in the heart of men.

For the sake of argument let's assume the worse and say that substantial numbers of men involved in the age play activity are actually pedophiles. Is is really bad for society, that camgirl participate in their activity? I'd argue probably not.

Jupiter mentioned heroin addicts and video games, I think they are both interesting place to look for analogies. I have been peripherally involved in the computer/video game industry for more than 30 years. During that time, I've read dozens of studies on violence and video games. A bit of a history during the mid eighties there was growing concern that playing violent video games desensitized kids and especially males between 15-25 to violence and made them more likely to commit violent acts. This movement probably reached a peaked in 1999 with Columbine school massacre, where the killers played violent video games. There were many studies made none of them (after scrutiny) could show a causal relationship between playing violent video games and engaging in violent crimes. The ban violent video game movement finally mostly died in the 21st century for a couple of reasons. First almost everybody ended up playing the games so people said "I've played those games and I have no desire to go out and kill a cop, I don't believe the studies." Most importantly crime rates dropped tremendously over the last 20-30 years and the group that saw the highest reduction in crime rates was young males. This made it increasingly hard for the ban violent videogame advocates to argue that games were causing harm.

Some researchers started to looked at the opposite does playing violent video games acts as substitute for real life violence. Again there wasn't really conclusive evidence. Other researchers, notably the guys at Freakonomics started looking at the substitute effect. As we all know playing video games can be a huge time suck. Their theory and mine is that every hour a teenage boy spends killing things on Halo etc is one less hour that is he is on the streets hanging with his buds and looking for something to do. Many of which are illegal.

While heroin addicts don't inject water into their veins, we have found it very effective to replace heroin with methadone. By most accounts methadone produces a less intense/satisfying high as heroin. But is is good enough high that a large number heroin addicts can satisfy their craving with an inferior product that doesn't have the bad effects associated with heroin (e.g. jail time, overdoses)

I believe there are three hypothesis with camgirls age-play and pedophiles.
1. It acts as gateway drug and emboldens pedophiles to trying it in real life with children
2. It acts a replacement like methadone not as good as interacting with a child, but way better than being jailed as sex offender.
3. It acts as substitute. It is better to have the guy on MFC looking for models in MFC doing age play, than at the mall, schoolyard, or hanging around chatroom for boy bands looking for 12 year olds.

Yesterday I saw a guy in a couple of rooms asking models if they like to smell their ass. At first I thought he was troll, but I also think he may have been a guy with a strange ass smell fetish. I was thinking how time consuming it would be to have to go through the 1,000 odd models on MFC finding some girl willing to cater to your fetish. The same thing is true for age-play, it sounds like something most girls don't do at all, and the percentage of models who enjoy like in this thread is smaller than number of girls who will do it for a 1,000 tokens.

AFAIK there is no treatment for pedophilia so it is not like in the case of hypothesis 2 and 3, we are keeping pedophiles from getting treatment to cure their sickness.

So rather than leaping to conclusion I think we should wait for empirical evidence do we see more or lower incidents of child abuse.
 
HiGirlsRHot said:
Jupiter551 said:
The reason I think some people (certainly myself) are uncomfortable with age-related role-playing going on is that not everyone accepts that these sorts of fantasies (specifically talking about ones where one party is acting "underage") purely take the place of real offending, but that rather they can normalize and validate behavior that isn't ever going to be acceptable in society.

Acting out and reinforcing urges to do something don't kill the urge. You don't see heroin addicts shooting up syringes of water thinking it will stop them wanting to score.

In regards to violent video games, it's different in that people who play video games generally don't do it because they enjoy violence, though a few might - most are interested in the action, the storyline, etc, and anyone who's been involved in or seen actual violence or gun play immediately knows a video game is nothing much like that.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the practice of age-play between two consenting adults, what I would have concerns about are some of the deeper fantasies this is fuelling.

For example I understand fully that some of this involves a desire to be validated by the other person, or to completely rely on the other person etc and that's fine, but can it be done in a fantasy setting that doesn't involve roleplaying sexual abuse? I understand for example the "daddies" wanting to give to a younger woman, but I can separate the desire to shower a woman (of any age) with gifts, and even maybe "look after them" if I felt like it, from calling them a little girl or my daughter. Ugh.

I can also understand wanting to be treated like that by an older person, especially a wealthy one, but that's YOUR side of the fantasy, what I don't get is the male side of the fantasy.

As I said I get all the taking-care-of-someone bit, and giving rather than receiving...but you can do all that with out a "daddy" and "little girl" theme, right?

Like most fetishes, I have no personal knowledge. If its not a turn on than I either I am just confused or in this case squeamish.
I also think Tegan is correct we simply can't know what evil lurks in the heart of men.

For the sake of argument let's assume the worse and say that substantial numbers of men involved in the age play activity are actually pedophiles. Is is really bad for society, that camgirl participate in their activity? I'd argue probably not.

Jupiter mentioned heroin addicts and video games, I think they are both interesting place to look for analogies. I have been peripherally involved in the computer/video game industry for more than 30 years. During that time, I've read dozens of studies on violence and video games. A bit of a history during the mid eighties there was growing concern that playing violent video games desensitized kids and especially males between 15-25 to violence and made them more likely to commit violent acts. This movement probably reached a peaked in 1999 with Columbine school massacre, where the killers played violent video games. There were many studies made none of them (after scrutiny) could show a causal relationship between playing violent video games and engaging in violent crimes. The ban violent video game movement finally mostly died in the 21st century for a couple of reasons. First almost everybody ended up playing the games so people said "I've played those games and I have no desire to go out and kill a cop, I don't believe the studies." Most importantly crime rates dropped tremendously over the last 20-30 years and the group that saw the highest reduction in crime rates was young males. This made it increasingly hard for the ban violent videogame advocates to argue that games were causing harm.

Some researchers started to looked at the opposite does playing violent video games acts as substitute for real life violence. Again there wasn't really conclusive evidence. Other researchers, notably the guys at Freakonomics started looking at the substitute effect. As we all know playing video games can be a huge time suck. Their theory and mine is that every hour a teenage boy spends killing things on Halo etc is one less hour that is he is on the streets hanging with his buds and looking for something to do. Many of which are illegal.

While heroin addicts don't inject water into their veins, we have found it very effective to replace heroin with methadone. By most accounts methadone produces a less intense/satisfying high as heroin. But is is good enough high that a large number heroin addicts can satisfy their craving with an inferior product that doesn't have the bad effects associated with heroin (e.g. jail time, overdoses)

I believe there are three hypothesis with camgirls age-play and pedophiles.
1. It acts as gateway drug and emboldens pedophiles to trying it in real life with children
2. It acts a replacement like methadone not as good as interacting with a child, but way better than being jailed as sex offender.
3. It acts as substitute. It is better to have the guy on MFC looking for models in MFC doing age play, than at the mall, schoolyard, or hanging around chatroom for boy bands looking for 12 year olds.

Yesterday I saw a guy in a couple of rooms asking models if they like to smell their ass. At first I thought he was troll, but I also think he may have been a guy with a strange ass smell fetish. I was thinking how time consuming it would be to have to go through the 1,000 odd models on MFC finding some girl willing to cater to your fetish. The same thing is true for age-play, it sounds like something most girls don't do at all, and the percentage of models who enjoy like in this thread is smaller than number of girls who will do it for a 1,000 tokens.

AFAIK there is no treatment for pedophilia so it is not like in the case of hypothesis 2 and 3, we are keeping pedophiles from getting treatment to cure their sickness.

So rather than leaping to conclusion I think we should wait for empirical evidence do we see more or lower incidents of child abuse.

Thanks for bringing up the studies on video games, because you touched on an important point - using it as an outlet for anger/violence. When I worked retail and had customers and managers treating me like shit, I was able to keep myself sane by remembering that I can go home at the end of the day and kill things that don't exist to relieve my frustration.

This applies to pedophiles, if they are using camsites in this way. Most pedophiles are aware that their attraction to children is wrong, and they don't want to act on it, but they can't help feeling that attraction, and many do try to seek help. If they're able to express their feelings and keep from assaulting children by playing it out on a camsite with a model who agrees to it, I see that as no different than me relieving my desire to slap people after a retail shift by going home to play Dungeon Keeper and slapping my imps till they explode.

Mean as this sounds, I don't feel that a model who engages in this roleplay should be held responsible if the member were to actually go out and do it, just like we tell girls who have regulars who threaten suicide, this person's mental health is not your responsibility. We are not therapists. If someone wants or needs a therapist, they should do their best to go see one, or, at bare minimum, call a toll-free help line, and talk to someone who knows how to help them.

I know that a lot of members will bring up their daughter, step daughter, other young female relative, and reference doing things to them. But, hey, a lot of members will also claim that they themselves are female and keep going on about how wet you're making their pussy and asking over and over if you're ok with girls watching you. In both of these situations, it's a fantasy that they're playing out. They don't really have a daughter, they're trying to roleplay that situation with you. They're not really female, they want you to talk about ladysex with them. The most that any model should be expected to do in this situation (in my mind) is to tell them that, if they are wanting incest/age roleplay, they need to go private or otherwise pay, and if they are actually considering acting it out IRL, please don't and seek help instead.
 
JickyJuly said:
It does seem to make light of child abuse, and that feels disrespectful and icky.

I think this statement is super unfair. I don't take child abuse lightly at all, especially because of my childhood. I engage in consensual non-consent and BDSM as well. Does that mean I am making light of rape and physical abuse?
 
I'm going to share some of my personal experiences regarding sexual abuse now in hopes of maybe giving some perspective, so MASSIVE TRIGGER WARNING DO NOT READ IF SEXUAL ASSAULT AGAINST MINORS REALLY BOTHERS YOU.







So, here's the thing. Both of the times I was molested, it could have been prevented. It wasn't. The only person I hold responsible, though, is the person in each situation who actually molested me.

Situation 1 - I was three. My parents were separated. My mom told my dad multiple times that she didn't want us kids left alone with his roommate. He did anyway, and the dude molested me and my sister. I told my mom, she pressed charges.

Situation 2 - I was thirteen. My mom ran into an old friend from when she waitressed. He had just gotten out of prison, for I don't even know what, and he needed a place to stay, so she let him crash on our couch until he got back on his feet. He ended up quitting his job or getting fired, don't remember, and mooching off us for months, including having his kids stay with us during the weeks he had custody and making us feed/clean up after them. My mom eventually got sick of him being a leech and kicked him out. He lived with us for about 9 months, molested me almost the whole time. I was brainwashed and didn't realize what exactly was going on until a couple years late, and I pretty much had a breakdown when I did - it dawned on me in a sudden moment of realization and I started bawling. My mom asked what was up, I told her that he'd molested me, and she called the local police station and set up a time for us to go in and report him.





I still don't feel like age play is encouraging sexual contact with minors, especially if the adult playing the little is playing a very young age, because even a young-looking adult body is never going to look like a damn toddler, and it's very clear that you're roleplaying. I don't feel like engaging in age play on cam would be encouraging people to go do stuff to kids. It is 100% the offender's fault and the offender's fault only if someone does something.
 
LexiGraceCam said:
JickyJuly said:
It does seem to make light of child abuse, and that feels disrespectful and icky.

I think this statement is super unfair. I don't take child abuse lightly at all, especially because of my childhood. I engage in consensual non-consent and BDSM as well. Does that mean I am making light of rape and physical abuse?
OF COURSE my statement looks unfair if you remove it from the entirety of what I said. This thread was made to ask questions, was it not? If you want people to be more understanding of your fetish, answer the questions. Answering questions with questions is not a path to understanding at all. It's divisive. If you only want people to talk about how cool and okay age play is, the title of this thread should be different. If we're having a conversation, stop being so defensive. I attempted to word my entire previous post in a way that was questioning not accusatory.
 
SaffronBurke said:
I'm going to share some of my personal experiences regarding sexual abuse now in hopes of maybe giving some perspective, so MASSIVE TRIGGER WARNING DO NOT READ IF SEXUAL ASSAULT AGAINST MINORS REALLY BOTHERS YOU.







So, here's the thing. Both of the times I was molested, it could have been prevented. It wasn't. The only person I hold responsible, though, is the person in each situation who actually molested me.

Situation 1 - I was three. My parents were separated. My mom told my dad multiple times that she didn't want us kids left alone with his roommate. He did anyway, and the dude molested me and my sister. I told my mom, she pressed charges.

Situation 2 - I was thirteen. My mom ran into an old friend from when she waitressed. He had just gotten out of prison, for I don't even know what, and he needed a place to stay, so she let him crash on our couch until he got back on his feet. He ended up quitting his job or getting fired, don't remember, and mooching off us for months, including having his kids stay with us during the weeks he had custody and making us feed/clean up after them. My mom eventually got sick of him being a leech and kicked him out. He lived with us for about 9 months, molested me almost the whole time. I was brainwashed and didn't realize what exactly was going on until a couple years late, and I pretty much had a breakdown when I did - it dawned on me in a sudden moment of realization and I started bawling. My mom asked what was up, I told her that he'd molested me, and she called the local police station and set up a time for us to go in and report him.





I still don't feel like age play is encouraging sexual contact with minors, especially if the adult playing the little is playing a very young age, because even a young-looking adult body is never going to look like a damn toddler, and it's very clear that you're roleplaying. I don't feel like engaging in age play on cam would be encouraging people to go do stuff to kids. It is 100% the offender's fault and the offender's fault only if someone does something.

Saffron, I just want to say thank you for sharing this and huge hugs. I get what that stuff is like. Everything you said, I completely agree with.
 
JickyJuly said:
LexiGraceCam said:
JickyJuly said:
It does seem to make light of child abuse, and that feels disrespectful and icky.

I think this statement is super unfair. I don't take child abuse lightly at all, especially because of my childhood. I engage in consensual non-consent and BDSM as well. Does that mean I am making light of rape and physical abuse?
OF COURSE my statement looks unfair if you remove it from the entirety of what I said. This thread was made to ask questions, was it not? If you want people to be more understanding of your fetish, answer the questions. Answering questions with questions is not a path to understanding at all. It's divisive. If you only want people to talk about how cool and okay age play is, the title of this thread should be different. If we're having a conversation, stop being so defensive. I attempted to word my entire previous post in a way that was questioning not accusatory.

No matter what you said around that statement, you made it very clearly you think what we are doing is disgusting. I have been answering questions throughout this whole thread because I do want people to understand. I did not answer your question in this specific post because I felt I answered it earlier on in the conversation and I also feel that no matter what I say, you are going to just keep coming back about how terrible it is. Which is fine, you don't like it. I get it. But I think that the statement about us making light of child abuse is really unfair, both with that sentence standing alone and within the whole post.

I asked a question that I felt was important to better understand what you think is wrong and right. Asking if you think that engaging in consensual non-consent and BDSM are also normalizing and condoning illegal/negative/abusive behavior is not getting defensive. This is a debate thread and I do not understand why I suddenly cannot ask questions as well. I am curious to know what you think is crossing the line and what you think is okay.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AshleyFox
I'm not sure where I called anyone disgusting? I don't need anyone putting words in my mouth. I talk too much already, but I say things the way I want them to be understood. If you've misunderstood me, that's fine. But, don't misquote me to create further misunderstandings please.

I didn't answer your question about BDSM because I didn't want to derail the thread with other fetishes, but I guess it might be relevant. I don't think BDSM is playing at abuse. Adults have a right to decide amongst themselves what constitutes a bad touch or a good touch. Someone who likes the sensation or emotion of being smacked or punched or pulled isn't enjoying the idea of abuse. They are enjoying something that the average person finds abusive, but if they enjoy it, there is no abuse happening. They aren't using the idea of abuse to me. Once an age is attached, as seems to be the case with 'AGE play', the IDEA of child abuse is involved. I'm not even debating whether that has anything to do with pedo-anything. I don't know. It's not my place to investigate that or judge it deeper than I am. I only asked why include the number because it does make light of a dark, sad thing.
 
JickyJuly said:
I'm not sure where I called anyone disgusting? I don't need anyone putting words in my mouth. I talk too much already, but I say things the way I want them to be understood. If you've misunderstood me, that's fine. But, don't misquote me to create further misunderstandings please.

I didn't answer your question about BDSM because I didn't want to derail the thread with other fetishes, but I guess it might be relevant. I don't think BDSM is playing at abuse. Adults have a right to decide amongst themselves what constitutes a bad touch or a good touch. Someone who likes the sensation or emotion of being smacked or punched or pulled isn't enjoying the idea of abuse. They are enjoying something that the average person finds abusive, but if they enjoy it, there is no abuse happening. They aren't using the idea of abuse to me. Once an age is attached, as seems to be the case with 'AGE play', the IDEA of child abuse is involved. I'm not even debating whether that has anything to do with pedo-anything. I don't know. It's not my place to investigate that or judge it deeper than I am. I only asked why include the number because it does make light of a dark, sad thing.

I am truly sorry you feel I am putting words into your mouth. I have felt that way a lot during this conversation as well and also have been misquoted quite a few times, so I understand how frustrating it is. I will make sure to read your responses better and quote accordingly.

A lot of people look at BDSM the same way you look at age play. That is making light of an abusive situation. I completely agree with the way that you look at BDSM and I kind of guessed you would answer that way. I have had many people say that I should not participate in BDSM scenes because it is condoning abuse, same as consensual nonconsent. I guess I look at them the same. We are taking something that is totally taboo and using it as a fetish.

Alright and to answer your question, an age doesn't have to be tacked on for some people. I don't usually, tbh. But for some people it is a big part of it. The taboo factor has a bit to do with it. The age doesn't need to be a part of it, but it just is for some people. I wish I could explain it better but I really cannot find the right words.
 
Teagan_Chase said:
I think a huge issue people can have with this type of play is that you never really do know someone elses intentions or thoughts. Yes you could be acting as the little and your bf could be acting as the daddy and for you it is about playing the safe innocent one and all you can really do is hope your bf is just being a nurturing daddy. Do you really know what he is actually thinking though? No... You dont. Cause its not like someone is gonna tell you flat out they are thinking and pretending and fantasizing in their own head that you're a child. Just like if you're doing rape play you do not know that the guy is not actually fantasizing about real rape. Or the guy who enjoys vore fetish isnt really thinking of eating someone. You do not know other peoples true thoughts on things and people are smart to keep illegal and disgusting aspects of themselves a secret and not let out the truth.

Of course they are fantasizing that they are with a 9 year old, raping someone or eating someone. What do all the girls masturbating to a Jensen Ackles picture think they are doing? Tentacle porn is about the only thing without a real analogue.

As for enabling a potential pedophile or rapist, I don't think its likely to make a difference. People need to justify what they do in their head. Jerking off to a drawing of some 9 year old's butthole is not quite the same thing is not the same thing as fucking a 9 year old in the butthole. One requires a lot more determination and depravity than the other - and lube.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VeronicaChaos
Does anyone else feel the term age-play covers a bit more of a broader scope than is being discussed here? I was under the impression that it covers playing at any age, though it's generally aimed at just the person playing the little. So what about the person playing the big? :think:

While age-play isn't my personal fetish, I have dabbled in, we'll just go with age-play for words' sake, it quite a bit off camera so reading the sides to this discussion is intriguing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.