Suggestion to ease some affiliates' anger

[lavayax]

Hi,

to whom it may concern or interest,
I'm amongst multiple groups of discussion with other webmasters & affiliates and one of the most discussed topic is "affiliate stealing". Wether it's by models or other webmasters it makes no difference.
I was wondering if it would make sense to lock a spender by his CC nnumber Hash & name and how CB should work preventing this?

I know some webmaster that actually wrote support and got their spender's back after CB realized he/she signed up under a different account.

Food for thoughts, not sure if we can come to any conclusion but I was wondering if any of you had the same problem/ had solutions?

 

[SIREN]

How would that harm anyone? If someone is on a models page already and their affiliate link is what gets them to sign up why would anyone have an issue with that?

Users build relationships with models, drop their accounts, and start new ones to support their favorite models. It makes affiliate programs unprofitable for affiliate sites. So models get less traffic as well. I think from Chaturbate point of view direct affiliate links on model pages just make no sense. They should bring traffic. But being on profile pages they do nothing. It would be much better if such direct links would be banned. Chaturbate can compensate it to models by increasing paying percent. Let this revshare be even 15% instead of 20% in result. It would work better anyway and bring traffic rather then just "converting" users

 

[Nigerian Prince]

Users build relationships with models, drop their accounts, and start new ones to support their favorite models. It makes affiliate programs unprofitable for affiliate sites. So models get less traffic as well. I think from Chaturbate point of view direct affiliate links on model pages just make no sense. They should bring traffic. But being on profile pages they do nothing. It would be much better if such direct links would be banned. Chaturbate can compensate it to models by increasing paying percent. Let this revshare be even 15% instead of 20% in result. It would work better anyway and bring traffic rather then just "converting" users

Having a link on their profile page means they have more incentive to try and push for anons to signup for an account. There are plenty of models who will make mention of it during their shows to push those users to make an account.

 

[KingMarti]

All the affiliates I have seen complain about this all have the same thing in common.

They think that the job is over when they get a user to sign up.

Customer retention is a thing in every business, why would it be any different as an affiliate?
you want to retain customers? Then you need to keep providing them value after they have signed up.

It's not the sites job to retain your members for you. It's on you.

The idea about a leader board is cool, you build a community have that as a feature and now your members have a reason to stay with you and incentive to increase spending.

Getting the member is only 1 part of the job. Rather than bitching about the fact that your business model is flawed, why not put that energy into improving it and solving the issue?

Customers will always have loyalty to where the value proposition is. Find a way to provide your existing members with value and you will stop loosing them, it really is that simple.

 

[AmberCutie]

I think from Chaturbate point of view direct affiliate links on model pages just make no sense.

I think if someone organically lands on the cb homepage, goes to a models room (maybe because their avatar or screengrab was enticing) and BECAUSE of her, decides to sign up, that she deserves the revenue bonus.

SHE is what convinced the person to actually log in and buy credits.

That's why it makes sense.

 

[SIREN]

All the affiliates I have seen complain about this all have the same thing in common.

They think that the job is over when they get a user to sign up.

Customer retention is a thing in every business, why would it be any different as an affiliate?
you want to retain customers? Then you need to keep providing them value after they have signed up.

It's not the sites job to retain your members for you. It's on you.

The idea about a leader board is cool, you build a community have that as a feature and now your members have a reason to stay with you and incentive to increase spending.

Getting the member is only 1 part of the job. Rather than bitching about the fact that your business model is flawed, why not put that energy into improving it and solving the issue?

Customers will always have loyalty to where the value proposition is. Find a way to provide your existing members with value and you will stop loosing them, it really is that simple.

If all the affiliates you have seen complain than the rules of the game we all play seem to be little bit unbalanced. Is not it? You said right thing about retention in general but it just doesn't work on this particular site. Here if you are not white label, your job is literally to get a user to sign up. These are the rules set by Chaturbate. You have a lot of instruments to retain users but you have no other instruments to make money from that

 

[SIREN]

I think if someone organically lands on the cb homepage, goes to a models room (maybe because their avatar or screengrab was enticing) and BECAUSE of her, decides to sign up, that she deserves the revenue bonus.

SHE is what convinced the person to actually log in and buy credits.

That's why it makes sense.

Having a link on their profile page means they have more incentive to try and push for anons to signup for an account. There are plenty of models who will make mention of it during their shows to push those users to make an account.

I should agree. These are good points. Probably two different sign up buttons look at least confusing for new users though I think there should be different mechanism for that. For example let the models on whose pages users sing up get some sort of revshare automatically

 

[MarieElise]

If all the affiliates you have seen complain than the rules of the game we all play seem to be little bit unbalanced. Is not it?

No that is just their bias. That does not necessarily mean that it is unfair at all.
Like someone said (you I think) about my opinion being bias, so is this. Obviously.

 

[Emberblaze]

Spender leaving the site is one thing and it's basic churn. Spender actually creating new account as model ask them to is another.

For a second I thought models were thankful for affiliates bringing thousands of sign up everyday, but I was clearly wrong, we're not working the same side here.

But since every model in here seems to find it normal and webmaster work is leeching - guess it's time to play the same game - I guess ya'll correct.

I have a great suggestion. Do affiliate marketing for sites that don't allow us to tell our members to make new accounts. Streamate doesn't allow it. If I even mention something like that during my stream I could be seriously reprimanded.

Support sites that support you. That's how I chose what site to work with. Plus streamates revshare program is really generous and you can choose between a one time payout per member you recruit or a lifetime percentage.

I support affiliates. They do something I don't want to do and that's drive traffic to me. All I have to do is login and people come to spend. But I find it appalling that your answer to a model is that you will cap their shows because that's not only illegal but that shit hurts both your business and mine.

 

[SIREN]

No that is just their bias. That does not necessarily mean that it is unfair at all.
Like someone said (you I think) about my opinion being bias, so is this. Obviously.

I like that stab "Obviously" Good one!

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

There will always be new affiliates coming around to pick up the slack sending new traffic, just like there will always be new performers signing up to cam. The idea that there will be less traffic because some affiliate gets in their feelings is pretty silly, in my eyes. Ease their anger? Try therapy or something.

 

[MarieElise]

I like that stab "Obviously" Good one!

Lol sorry.
For what it's worth I do agree with you that my views on this are biased.
Thank you for taking the obviously in good humor. It's a stab at myself too because I am pointing out that which is obvious... or imo should be.

 

[KingMarti]

If all the affiliates you have seen complain than the rules of the game we all play seem to be little bit unbalanced. Is not it? You said right thing about retention in general but it just doesn't work on this particular site. Here if you are not white label, your job is literally to get a user to sign up. These are the rules set by Chaturbate. You have a lot of instruments to retain users but you have no other instruments to make money from that

If you are doing PPL or PPS, sure, your job is to get a sign up and nothing else, if you are doing rev share (which is what I assume we are talking about since the complaint is about loosing members) then you need to actively be putting effort in to retaining those members, it's the same with any business, if you neglect the customers you have your in a churn and burn business, which is what you dont want if you are going for rev share.

Complaining about loosing members because someone else is providing them with more value is just proof of a flawed business model that needs to be changed.
A one time job can expect a one time payment.

Anyone can follow a guide from 2001 on how to "make bank as an affiliate", very few will understand the business enough to be able to retain those members long term.

The affiliates I have seen complaining about member retention is no different than the drop shippers I see complaining about not getting repeat sales. It simply comes down to what your offering isnt good enough. Yes you can get those initial sales, but you need to work on everything that comes after that, to make sure that those customers / members are having the best possible experiance and ensure that they know that you are an active part of that.

The very fact that you said that your job is literally just to get signups is the very mindset that's causing affiliates to loose members. Instead of thinking how can I get more signups, they need to focus on, how can I make the experiance better for the members that I do sign up. When you work this out you will stop loosing members.

When you get down to the root of it, the complaint is literally "I lost a customer because someone else is providing that customer with more value than I did". If you provide sufficient value to a customer, a model saying "sign up with the link in my bio"

If you have no other ways for making money from your site then again, it's a business flaw. I am working on the assumption that the "you" (also assuming that it's a general you and not a you or me specifically) have a site where you are driving traffic from, it's up to the site owner to work out all the different ways they can monetize that traffic, and there are so many other than just affiliate income.

 

[AudriTwo]

 

[lavayax]

I have a great suggestion. Do affiliate marketing for sites that don't allow us to tell our members to make new accounts. Streamate doesn't allow it. If I even mention something like that during my stream I could be seriously reprimanded.

Support sites that support you. That's how I chose what site to work with. Plus streamates revshare program is really generous and you can choose between a one time payout per member you recruit or a lifetime percentage.

I support affiliates. They do something I don't want to do and that's drive traffic to me. All I have to do is login and people come to spend. But I find it appalling that your answer to a model is that you will cap their shows because that's not only illegal but that shit hurts both your business and mine.

Thank you for your message. I'll look into streamate (through your aff link of course) - that sounds like a more fair (to me) as a program.

I'll try and put things in perspective because 1/ I didn't attack any models in my initial message and 2/it seems there are a alot misconception about what i said.

So about me without going into too much boring details. I was just able to resign from my 9-5 job to become a full time affiliate after 4 years of night works on my sites.
During 4 years I spent time & money:
- buying domains,
- learning design (CSS, HTML, Wordpress, tried a lot of things - but PHP which I already knew)
- doing keyword & competitors research with a tool I pay $179 a month
- finding content idea (when I say content I mean text)
- writing those text or paying for people to write
- learning about netlinking - trying and failing multiple time at building PBN
- buying links
- buying extra course for my knoweldge.

Guess what, it became profitable this year (on a monthly basis) - I am super happy. Now all the pofits I make will slowly equilibrate those 3 previous years of monthly reccurring loss (close to 20K over 3 years if you dont count the hours I spent on it), from pocket money.

Now what pissed me off and brought me on a slippery slope is that a model believe & wrote that what I do is "leeching" and a "sleazy" job. And people seem to support that opinion. So yeah I tend to lose my calm when that happens.

Just to make things clear: CB affiliate program IS NOT a loyalty program. Yes it can be used at such, but it was not designed this way - it was first and foremost made to bring NEW users and reward a lifetime share affiliates of 20% - because that's what they calculated to be a fair share of the price it would cost them to acquire these new members.
To make another thing clear: I do respect model's work and never said the contrary. You all do something I wouldn't do - and 99% of affiliates wouldn't do - Just like I did something that 99% of models wouldnt engage in.

My tone was maybe not the best but I was in no way disprespectful in my original post - and I certainly didnt expect to be called a "leecher" or being "sleazy" (And i'm really disapointed by the number of positive answer this model had - I know understand there is an ongoing feud between models and affiliates and I'll make sure to get out of the CB affiliates program and focus on another one fiting my needs better)

Wish you all the best

 

[MarieElise]

And people seem to support that opinion.

Well learning all of this (below) certainly changes things...

So about me without going into too much boring details. I was just able to resign from my 9-5 job to become a full time affiliate after 4 years of night works on my sites.
During 4 years I spent time & money:
- buying domains,
- learning design (CSS, HTML, Wordpress, tried a lot of things - but PHP which I already knew)
- doing keyword & competitors research with a tool I pay $179 a month
- finding content idea (when I say content I mean text)
- writing those text or paying for people to write
- learning about netlinking - trying and failing multiple time at building PBN
- buying links
- buying extra course for my knoweldge.

 

[SIREN]

If you are doing PPL or PPS, sure, your job is to get a sign up and nothing else, if you are doing rev share (which is what I assume we are talking about since the complaint is about loosing members) then you need to actively be putting effort in to retaining those members, it's the same with any business, if you neglect the customers you have your in a churn and burn business, which is what you dont want if you are going for rev share.

Complaining about loosing members because someone else is providing them with more value is just proof of a flawed business model that needs to be changed.
A one time job can expect a one time payment.

Anyone can follow a guide from 2001 on how to "make bank as an affiliate", very few will understand the business enough to be able to retain those members long term.

The affiliates I have seen complaining about member retention is no different than the drop shippers I see complaining about not getting repeat sales. It simply comes down to what your offering isnt good enough. Yes you can get those initial sales, but you need to work on everything that comes after that, to make sure that those customers / members are having the best possible experiance and ensure that they know that you are an active part of that.

The very fact that you said that your job is literally just to get signups is the very mindset that's causing affiliates to loose members. Instead of thinking how can I get more signups, they need to focus on, how can I make the experiance better for the members that I do sign up. When you work this out you will stop loosing members.

When you get down to the root of it, the complaint is literally "I lost a customer because someone else is providing that customer with more value than I did". If you provide sufficient value to a customer, a model saying "sign up with the link in my bio"

If you have no other ways for making money from your site then again, it's a business flaw. I am working on the assumption that the "you" (also assuming that it's a general you and not a you or me specifically) have a site where you are driving traffic from, it's up to the site owner to work out all the different ways they can monetize that traffic, and there are so many other than just affiliate income.

I have quite an unusual service for online notifications. It is not even the site. So your assumptions don't work for me. I don't have a retention problem. Usually users stay with me for years. However despite the fact that there are more and more of them, it become less profitable. So it just cannot be free for users anymore. Yes, it is a business flaw at the moment. However it just worked before. In my opinion Chaturbate is able to make its ecosystem better by changing its rules from time to time. Just keep it balanced. There will be more players and it is better for everyone

 

[_pilya_]

My 2 cents, not that its worth a lot…

But seems one of the best solutions to this is give incentive for the user not to change user UID/ID number (name). The incentives are for the promoters of the affiliate links/ models and site. Why not give the user incentive to keep the name he signed up for, ie instead of 20% 10/10, for the user and the link owner? I must agree, as a model I lose on this but if the user will not change his UID/ID then that’s a win??? What do you think?

 

[Emberblaze]

Thank you for your message. I'll look into streamate (through your aff link of course) - that sounds like a more fair (to me) as a program.

I'll try and put things in perspective because 1/ I didn't attack any models in my initial message and 2/it seems there are a alot misconception about what i said.

So about me without going into too much boring details. I was just able to resign from my 9-5 job to become a full time affiliate after 4 years of night works on my sites.
During 4 years I spent time & money:
- buying domains,
- learning design (CSS, HTML, Wordpress, tried a lot of things - but PHP which I already knew)
- doing keyword & competitors research with a tool I pay $179 a month
- finding content idea (when I say content I mean text)
- writing those text or paying for people to write
- learning about netlinking - trying and failing multiple time at building PBN
- buying links
- buying extra course for my knoweldge.

Guess what, it became profitable this year (on a monthly basis) - I am super happy. Now all the pofits I make will slowly equilibrate those 3 previous years of monthly reccurring loss (close to 20K over 3 years if you dont count the hours I spent on it), from pocket money.

Now what pissed me off and brought me on a slippery slope is that a model believe & wrote that what I do is "leeching" and a "sleazy" job. And people seem to support that opinion. So yeah I tend to lose my calm when that happens.

Just to make things clear: CB affiliate program IS NOT a loyalty program. Yes it can be used at such, but it was not designed this way - it was first and foremost made to bring NEW users and reward a lifetime share affiliates of 20% - because that's what they calculated to be a fair share of the price it would cost them to acquire these new members.
To make another thing clear: I do respect model's work and never said the contrary. You all do something I wouldn't do - and 99% of affiliates wouldn't do - Just like I did something that 99% of models wouldnt engage in.

My tone was maybe not the best but I was in no way disprespectful in my original post - and I certainly didnt expect to be called a "leecher" or being "sleazy" (And i'm really disapointed by the number of positive answer this model had - I know understand there is an ongoing feud between models and affiliates and I'll make sure to get out of the CB affiliates program and focus on another one fiting my needs better)

Wish you all the best

Streamates revshare program is called cambuilder.

All I ask of you is to be an ethical affiliate and don't catfish people and pretend it's a dating site or tell people they can make us do whatever they want (model always has final say on SM). Because this becomes very stressful for us when affiliate use these claims. They offer different options for how you earn. I have seen models say the percent option is best.

 

[lavayax]

My 2 cents, not that its worth a lot…

But seems one of the best solutions to this is give incentive for the user not to change user UID/ID number (name). The incentives are for the promoters of the affiliate links/ models and site. Why not give the user incentive to keep the name he signed up for, ie instead of 20% 10/10, for the user and the link owner? I must agree, as a model I lose on this but if the user will not change his UID/ID then that’s a win??? What do you think?

50% for the model, 30% for CB and 20% for the affiliate is the program - You are asking for 60/30/10 ?

I means, once the rules are set, I dont mind (I would probably still be profitable with 10% but definitely wouldnt have started this years long struggle at first if it was that low in the beggining as it doesnt offer the same persective).

 

[Emberblaze]

50% for the model, 30% for CB and 20% for the affiliate is the program - You are asking for 60/30/10 ?

I means, once the rules are set, I dont mind (I would probably still be profitable with 10% but definitely wouldnt have started this years long struggle at first if it was that low in the beggining as it doesnt offer the same persective).

SM pays 30 percent+ I think.
SM is able to do that because they only pay me 35 and I know a lot of models find that to be unethical in itself but at the end of the day my take home hourly is higher on SM than it was on any other site so I wave bye to that 65 percent if it means my fat ass eats better.

 

[KingMarti]

I have quite an unusual service for online notifications. It is not even the site. So your assumptions doesn't work for me. I don't have a retention problem. Usually users stay with me for years. However despite the fact that there are more and more of them, it become less profitable. So it just cannot be free for users anymore. Yes, it is a business flaw at the moment. However it just worked before. In my opinion Chaturbate is able to make its ecosystem better by changing its rules from time to time. Just keep it balanced. There will be more players and it is better for everyone

It worked before, it should work now is what exactly the thinking that blockbuster had, and they are doing fantastic now...Things change, that's part of the fun of being in business right, having to constantly test to see what's working and what's not.

The users stay with you I imagine because the online notification service you are providing is giving them value, so kind of re-enforces my point that to keep a member you have to offer them more than just the link to sign up through.
I would argue that it is a balanced eco system, everyone has the same chance at earning with it, the only difference between those who do and those who dont are down to tactics, and the drop you are seeing in revanue could be as simple as a model that a member used to spend a lot of money on is no longer working so as a result he is spending less.

I will say though, cb could be a lot more transparent with the affiliate data, like giving you an id for the member and showing the id next to token purchases. That way it would give a clearer indication of are people spending less or am I loosing members, because those two instances have very different solutions.

My 2 cents, not that its worth a lot…

But seems one of the best solutions to this is give incentive for the user not to change user UID/ID number (name). The incentives are for the promoters of the affiliate links/ models and site. Why not give the user incentive to keep the name he signed up for, ie instead of 20% 10/10, for the user and the link owner? I must agree, as a model I lose on this but if the user will not change his UID/ID then that’s a win??? What do you think?

Allowing members to change their username without having to sign up for a new account would go a long way with this I think. I have seen a bunch of members over the years make a new account to simply change their username.

Streamates revshare program is called cambuilder.

All I ask of you is to be an ethical affiliate and don't catfish people and pretend it's a dating site or tell people they can make us do whatever they want (model always has final say on SM). Because this becomes very stressful for us when affiliate use these claims. They offer 2 options for how you earn. I have seen models say the percent option is best.

I used cam builder back in the day. Made good $ with it, but there were some things I wasn't quiet comfortable with, like asking me to transfer the ownership of my domain over to them before they would issue any further payments, I mean the domain is literally all I own of that business, so transferring it was not going to happen. Could be they mis-spoke and ment something else, but it was enough for me to switch the domain to another site.
As far as payouts go, it's one of the best ppl/rev share split options i have seen though.

 

[_pilya_]

50% for the model, 30% for CB and 20% for the affiliate is the program - You are asking for 60/30/10 ?

I means, once the rules are set, I dont mind (I would probably still be profitable with 10% but definitely wouldnt have started this years long struggle at first if it was that low in the beggining as it doesnt offer the same persective).

Longevity of the user using the same affiliated user UID/ID since giving the user incentive to keep it with 10% of their expense. 50(models)/30 (site) 10 (link owner)/ 10 (user).

I’m saying this as a potential “link owner”, but that can also be anyone. 20% of the affiliated rev share was determined as a good share instead of paying advertising cost this is self-advertising for the sites. No issue with the site, but I always say, the user can change any given time just because…

Now if you give certain % to the user for spending on a site, ie, 5% back for the first 6months, each month earning additional 1% up to 10%. Then that user, would not want to change too quickly.

The percentage is of course not in stone just a sample, but I’m sure there is a good balance, if not satisfied with the current settings.

 

[lavayax]

Longevity of the user using the same affiliated user UID/ID since giving the user incentive to keep it with 10% of their expense. 50(models)/30 (site) 10 (link owner)/ 10 (user).

I’m saying this as a potential “link owner”, but that can also be anyone. 20% of the affiliated rev share was determined as a good share instead of paying advertising cost this is self-advertising for the sites. No issue with the site, but I always say, the user can change any given time just because…

Now if you give certain % to the user for spending on a site, ie, 5% back for the first 6months, each month earning additional 1% up to 10%. Then that user, would not want to change too quickly.

The percentage is of course not in stone just a sample, but I’m sure there is a good balance, if not satisfied with the current settings.

Im struggling to understand the difference between user and model.
maybe 50 with 1% increment to 60% spending goes to model would make more sense. What does the user do in your story?

 

[Billyboy]

Im struggling to understand the difference between user and model.
maybe 50 with 1% increment to 60% spending goes to model would make more sense. What does the user do in your story?

Models are providing the "content", Users (or Members) are the ones consuming the content.

Users are the whales and everybody else you are keen to retain, who have signed up using your Affiliate link.

If there was an incentive to save more, by spending more, then that would help ensure loyalty. It is something models cannot offer, other than discounting shows for Fan Club members or regular tippers.

As an example, if there was a sliding scale on tokens being credited, based on spend, then the whales would benefit most, which are the users you are most scared of being poached.

I don't know if Affiliates benefit when tokens are bought or spent (I assume the latter). Is information provided on individual user statistics, or do you just get the rewards paid each month with no visibility on how they were earned? Do you know who the whales are and who are the minnows?

 

[lavayax]

I don't know if Affiliates benefit when tokens are bought or spent (I assume the latter). Is information provided on individual user statistics, or do you just get the rewards paid each month with no visibility on how they were earned? Do you know who the whales are and who are the minnows?

We get a commission when the user buy token (when CB gets the money in essence).

As details, we have UUID and the user buying habits (timestamp). We do not have : name / username or anyway to identify him on chaturbate, who he spends with, if he is connected, when was his last connection, or other type of informations, we cannot contact him.

 

[Billyboy]

We get a commission when the user buy token (when CB gets the money in essence).

As details, we have UUID and the user buying habits (timestamp). We do not have : name / username or anyway to identify him on chaturbate, who he spends with, if he is connected, when was his last connection, or other type of informations, we cannot contact him.

Okay, so no real way to credit the CB account. If you cannot identify the user, is there a realistic way to add value for them? Do you have email address linked to UUID?

 

[InannahQoH]

We get a commission when the user buy token (when CB gets the money in essence).

As details, we have UUID and the user buying habits (timestamp). We do not have : name / username or anyway to identify him on chaturbate, who he spends with, if he is connected, when was his last connection, or other type of informations, we cannot contact him.

Could probably increase your referrals and revenue if you didn't just refer males.

 

[lavayax]

Okay, so no real way to credit the CB account. If you cannot identify the user, is there a realistic way to add value for them? Do you have email address linked to UUID?

Nope, no email.


Once again, the job of an affiliate is not to bring value to the end-user (that's the model (50%) and CB (30%) job) but to bring new users to CB for which they pay a commission. I'd feel more at ease with a $100/150 PPS.

Edit: obvisouly, I could use my sites to bring them elswhere where I have "more" control over them, but that's not the way I decided to go yet.

 

[KingMarti]

Okay, so no real way to credit the CB account. If you cannot identify the user, is there a realistic way to add value for them? Do you have email address linked to UUID?

The way you add value for them is by creating services bassed on the api which provide some benifit to the member, that way you become a part of their experiance rather than just a random link they found on the internet.

 

[SIREN]

The way you add value for them is by creating services bassed on the api which provide some benifit to the member, that way you become a part of their experiance rather than just a random link they found on the internet.

This sounds good. But what about making money from these benefits? What is monetization strategy in this case? Of course you can make money from paid service and ads. But it is the same as a declaration that affiliate links just don't work for affiliates. I really cannot see how you can use them other than just making users sign up