Schools

[HiGirlsRHot]

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (BMG) has spent the last 16 years and tens of billions, researching and conduct thousands of experiments on K-12 education in the US. I have read almost all of their annual reports/letters during that time. They tried a lot of approaches to education: smaller class sizes, smaller schools, more computers, improved facilities, curriculum changes, parent participation. They studied private, religious, charter, for profit, single gender,magnet schools etc. About four or five years ago BMG concluded that really the only thing that mattered was putting good teachers in classrooms. Everything else was of secondary importance.

Your kid will do a lot better spending a year in the classroom of great teacher in a horrible school, than a year with a bad teacher in great school. A 3rd grader in the hands of a great teacher will often be reading at the 6th grade at the end of year, the same kid with a bad teacher will stay at the 2nd grade and may even regress. Once the kid falls behind it can be very difficult to catch up.

The main benefit of private and charter schools is it is just easier to get rid of bad teacher. In most public school firing a bad teacher is virtually impossible; for a variety of reason such as super strong teachers unions and fear of lawsuits. We all remember bad teachers, and most kids will be stuck with one or two in K-6, and bunch more in Jr High School and High School when kids have multiple teachers. Now it isn't end of the world if your kids has bad 8th grade English Teacher, or 9th grade Spanish teacher. But if you kid only has one main teacher like in K-6, it is super important that you figure out fast if the teacher is bad and scream bloody murder to get them your kid out of their classroom.

Evaluating teachers properly is hard, but far from impossible despite what unions like AFT says. BMG has published a bunch of info ollegeready.gatesfoundation.org on evaluating teachers. If your school is reluctant to share information, you can work with other parents and students to start your own system like yelp. So while there is no doubt that a school you send your kid matters, what is even more important is the teacher they get.

It seems to me the big benefit of homeschooling is you are guaranteed that your child isn't stuck with a teacher who doesn't give a damn! All the studies I've seen show home schooled kids out perform both academically and socially. In competition like spelling bees and science fairs home school kids are over represented by 200-400%. I think a large part of it is they don't have to put up with a bad teacher for a year that rest of us got stuck with. My niece is homeschooling her three kids and they all are several grades ahead in most subjects.

 

[Remykins]

I went to public school. IF I have kids, I'll be homeschooling.

 

[Gen]

Charlotte, you made a really good point about how many more supports there are for homeschooled kids now! I can imagine with the internet it's easier to get resources. The main advantage seems like you can progress as quickly or slowly as the kid needs, plus you can focus on what they're interested in. I never thought much of homeschooling but I can definitely see why it'd work for some people.

Anyways, I went to public school and couldn't have been happier with it. We had great academics and arts programs (terrible sports teams though, haha). We had a lot of great teachers. My particular school had a gifted program that accelerated you through the grades faster, so you could take more electives, take college courses, or even graduate early. Because our school was highly academic, it was cool to be smart; all the most popular kids were either smart or artsy. My brother went to private school for a while but eventually came to public school as well, because most of his friends were there and we seemed to be getting comparable educations.

The only main difference I noticed between my school and private schools (I had a lot of friends, plus my brother, in private schools) was that the private schools seemed more heavily focused on university prep and ensuring that all students were taking all the courses for transfer and whatever. At my school, we were given options for many of our courses, and only some of them were eligible for university - so if you didn't take those, you were kind of fucked at graduation if you changed your mind (you'd have to go to college for your first two years, instead of directly to uni). The private schools assumed all kids were going and taught them in such a way that I think they were better prepared.

I'm not a big fan of private schools in general because I think all kids should have equal opportunities, but that's more of a theoretical approach than a practical one. If I had a kid, I'd want to get them the best education I could, and if that meant private school, then okay. (My mom almost sent me to an all-girls private school but I chose to go to the public school gifted program, and she was alright with that choice.) But I think we have a good public school system here and I'd be happy with my kids attending it, if I couldn't find (or afford) better options.

@Red Your school sounds like so much fun! I would've LOVED that so much.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Charlotte, you made a really good point about how many more supports there are for homeschooled kids now! I can imagine with the internet it's easier to get resources. The main advantage seems like you can progress as quickly or slowly as the kid needs, plus you can focus on what they're interested in. I never thought much of homeschooling but I can definitely see why it'd work for some people.

I think the Khan Academy is an amazing resource https://www.khanacademy.org lives up to its mission "A free world-class education for anyone anywhere". Bill Gates uses it for his kids, and I've used form everything to understanding how the Federal Reserve works; to figuring out how much calculus I've forgotten (a fuckton). It gamifies learning but studies have shown that that is very effective at keeping students interested. It doesn't replace a teacher, but it sure is a great supplement.

 

[curvyredhead]

I am having a problem quoting to be able to properly respond to everyone, but I think everyone made some great points.
While I sure private education can provide a better education, I think the same can be said about public, vocational, charter, and homeschooling. It totally depends on what you are comparing it to.
Someone mentioned schools bring better in right her neighborhoods. I find this very interesting. Once you reach middle school where I am from, there are no zoned schools, or schools you go to based on location. Your schools are determined by grades, attendance, which ones you apply to and behavior. Of course there are down sides to this...the best example being that kids with lower grades and clumped together. Some see this as good some as bad.

Thank you Gen! It really was a dream school for me. But, I realized I may have given a very one sided view of the school. While many high school experiences are survial. I think my school took it to a different level. With 100hrs weeks it left ill to no time for extra curricular activities or social time, or even n down time. To keep up with the other kids you often had to take outside classes in and outside our major. For example I took countless number of prof acting and vocal coaching classes as well as theatre history courses and dance just to feel like I would keep my head above water. While it tells ethnically was not, I felt and still feel it was a requirement in order to stand out in a group that was all so talented.
In addition to that so many kids just did not survive it. It was way to. Common for kids to go missing for weeks at a time off to rehab and mental institutions. Drugs in general was a huge problem. Many attributed to the damage hurting artist thing. But, personally there is no doubt that the pressure played a large role as well. It's simply not normal to have over 25% of your major have gone to rehab or mental instatutes.
I really don't think any of this has to do with it being a public school.
I really enjoyed reading about how teachers make the true difference in a child's education, because while I have always thought this, I never really had anything to back it up. I was lucky to have teachers that were hand selected, most of which had there doctorate. I also watched teachers get fired or switched schools really with ease. While my mother thought they were to strict on the teachers....It always seemed to make sense to me.

 

[CallMeWilliam]

I think the public school system in America is a mess. I think it teaches poor social skills and not much else. I can't stomach the idea of my kid having to ask permission to use the bathroom or get a drink of water in return for a sub par education. I'd like to home school and supplement it with classes and activities that involve other children. My husband would prefer we find a private girls' school.

Agreed @ the mess part. May I ask why you and husband would prefer an all girl's school though?

It's been shown in studies that teachers have gender biases that often lead them to focus on the boys in their classrooms more than the girls especially in subjects like math and science. I don't want my daughter to be slighted if I send her somewhere for education. I'm not terribly worried about the social aspects. Real world interaction after school can take care of that whether it's normal stuff at home with family or being on a team or in a creative class that includes boys. If we home school, I'll probably hire a tutor for part of it. But, that lets me try to find someone who I'm comfortable with and can share my concerns with. Pretty much, I'm an overbearing creature who wants her daughters to live in a gender equal world as long as possible.

Actually there is just as much gender bias in the workforce as there is in the school system so basing it on that alone is probably a moot point.

Just sayin'

 

[JickyJuly]

I think the public school system in America is a mess. I think it teaches poor social skills and not much else. I can't stomach the idea of my kid having to ask permission to use the bathroom or get a drink of water in return for a sub par education. I'd like to home school and supplement it with classes and activities that involve other children. My husband would prefer we find a private girls' school.

Agreed @ the mess part. May I ask why you and husband would prefer an all girl's school though?

It's been shown in studies that teachers have gender biases that often lead them to focus on the boys in their classrooms more than the girls especially in subjects like math and science. I don't want my daughter to be slighted if I send her somewhere for education. I'm not terribly worried about the social aspects. Real world interaction after school can take care of that whether it's normal stuff at home with family or being on a team or in a creative class that includes boys. If we home school, I'll probably hire a tutor for part of it. But, that lets me try to find someone who I'm comfortable with and can share my concerns with. Pretty much, I'm an overbearing creature who wants her daughters to live in a gender equal world as long as possible.

Actually there is just as much gender bias in the workforce as there is in the school system so basing it on that alone is probably a moot point.

Just sayin'

Saying little girls who are jilted by their educators grow up to be women jilted by their employers so why bother is too cynical for my blood. We're all gonna be worm food anyway. So, why don't we just bury the kids now? :lol:

Some parents probably do feel that the unfair classroom is just preparation for the unfair work environment. That's valid, but it also sends the message that the bias is acceptable. Girls who grow up accepting lack luster education might believe that 73 cents/dollar is all they deserve. People who underestimate their abilities and accept what is unfair don't change things for the better. I know that I can't change the world for my daughter, but I can make sure that she knows she deserves better. If enough women demand better, the world will eventually change.

Maybe my kid will grow up and think I'm an eccentric weirdo who made her miss out on an average childhood, but all she'll need to do is ask me why. All of my reasonings, whether it pays off or not, come back to loving and wanting what is best for her. Nothing moot about that!

 

[tomboytoy]

I was 100% homeschooled by conservative, religious parents who were a part of several different conservative, religious homeschooling groups. Regardless, I wouldn't have had it any other way. Except maybe a lot less religion and people telling me not to apply lip gloss when boys were in a 100 foot vicinity.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I've had different experiences along these lines with my nephew and niece. My niece started out in a private christian school until around 9th grade. They then moved to a different state and were both put into public school again. Then they were home schooled for a couple years.

The public school tested her and wanted to bump her up 3 grades from where she was in the private school. In the end they only let her go 2 grades because they were worried about peer pressure and being too much younger than the other classmates. Problems at the public school annoyed them after a year or two so they went with the Abeka homeschooling program, another christian based one.

I can tell you from that experience the christian homeschooling is WAY more difficult than anything in the public school systems. My niece took trigonometry and honors geometry at the same time for her math. It was too difficult for her parents to teach so they asked me to help tutor two or three days a week. The geometry was harder than the college geometry course i took. Non-stop proofs for every problem. Stuff I had never seen before.

Ultimately with the amount of private and homeschooling she had she was halfway through her second year of college when she turned 18.

My nephew is a bit younger and had a bit of a learning problem and began in public schools mostly. At the end of 3rd or 4th grade (I can't exactly remember) he was at the bottom of his class in reading, which affected other courses as well, and the school wanted him to repeat the grade. Since my brother's job allowed him to be home by 11am or noon every day they went ahead and bought homeschooling reading book programs (and a couple other courses). My brother spent the summer with him going through the whole grade level of books at an accelerated pace. Seriously, like having to read around 23 books and write reports. The beginning of the next school year he was tested again to see if he could go to the next grade. They put him in the advanced class. One summer of homeschooling brought him from bottom of the class to beyond all his classmates.

So from my personal experiences if I ever did have a kid I would definitely homeschool. I probably wouldn't choose the christian based programs though, I think they waste a lot of time on unnecessary courses. But there are a lot of good choices out there for regular homeschooling.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

With the gender bias in schools.... I think we should keep in mind that our children will be taught by our generation. Not the previous generations.

Each generation moves forward. My grandmother lived in a world where women could work and be completely capable, but also had a main role of bringing up a family and looking after their husband. My mother was taught with these values but with more modernism. I was taught to have even more independence. Any daughters I might have will be even further forward than I am.

We live in a generation where it seems we're all desperately trying to teach our daughters and ourselves, to not allow ourselves to be jilted and downgraded because of our sex.

Studies that are out now have been taken over the past 20 years. Though I think there is plenty of sexism in this world, I also think the older generations are starting to die out. Though these attitudes have been passed on, they are getting weaker and weaker.

To have an equal world where men and women are respected and treated equally, we cannot separate each other. Sure we can teach girls maths and science with no boys around, and of course they'd be brilliant, but come a time when they meet boys and men if they have had no experience with that, they will prioritise what they've never had. It doesn't matter how good at maths you are. We're all fools when it comes to hormones and attraction. Women naturally are especially foolish with men. We're much more likely to bend our lives around them, we have a much stronger desire for emotional attachment than most men do. As much as I hate it about my sex, it is true.
For us to live as equals, both men and women need to start together, as equals, from a young age. We should be working together, not against each other.