SASHA GREY: I Will NOT Quit Reading to Schoolchildren

[Paulie Walnuts]

As long as she isn't using her porn name in the classroom and it isn't easily found out from her real name, there is no issue with that.

Agreed.

 

[JickyJuly]

If this is a local public school for which she pays taxes, Sasha should be given the same opportunity to volunteer as anyone else would have. I hope that any program that brings adults into schools would run background checks. If she passes whatever system is used to qualify other readers/follows proper dress codes/rules, what would the problem be? I hate that young girls are being sexualized and made to feel like their worth revolves around their sexuality. Maybe having a hot girl in the classroom glorifies that a bit, but if we discard an ex-pornstar as not good enough to read aloud, it teaches children that a woman's worth can begin and end with sex.

 

[LailaBaise]

if we discard an ex-pornstar as not good enough to read aloud, it teaches children that a woman's worth can begin and end with sex.

Yes!

 

[MadisonLeigh]

...Did you really just compare Hitler to Sasha Grey?!? That's completely ludicrous. How does doing porn make her a bad person? Things that put you in the category of "bad person" are things like theft, assault, rape, murder. Not having sex on film.

No Miss Leigh I actually didn't. That post was a response to one by Lydia_Deetz that showed a photo of Chris Brown reading to some kids. She felt it was an valid response to my contention that a Gangstah Rapper who writes lyrics promoting the abuse of women, drug use & dealing, murder, theft, and other misc anti social behaviors would NOT be an appropriate person to read to small children either. HEY LOOK, those are most of the items that YOU say define a "bad person". Imagine that...

Yikes, you're sassy! My apologies, Mr. Vey, I didn't quite follow your thought process there, and presumed you were bringing up Hitler as a general point of discussion in this debate. As for Chris Brown, he is a known violent offender so I think that is entirely different from what Miss Sasha has done with her life.

 

[Oy vey]

Yikes, you're sassy! My apologies, Mr. Vey, I didn't quite follow your thought process there, and presumed you were bringing up Hitler as a general point of discussion in this debate. As for Chris Brown, he is a known violent offender so I think that is entirely different from what Miss Sasha has done with her life.

I apologize Miss Leigh, I wuz trying to be sarcastic amd funny for the general audience here. I didn't intend to be mean to you.

 

[SoTxBob]

OK you 2 get a room.. LOL :lol: :lol:

 

[Paulie Walnuts]

So Ron Jermy can go coach a little league team of 6 yr old boys and say "I'm a porn legend and I'm proud of it, kids" and all the parents are cool with it.

That would never happen.

If my daughter grew up and said I wanna be the next anal gang bang queen, I'd be a little irritated but she's an adult, I'd point out that that will follow her the rest of her life so think it over. Then I'd have to stand back and let her go, since she is an adult.

Now if, at 5 or 6 she came home and said daddy daddy we had a reader in school today and she was soo pretty and nice and famous I wanna be just like her when I grow up" and it turned out the woman in question was say.... A hardcore porn actress...

Can you see my point?

Ugh I'm glad my kids are grown up and gone, now this crap ins their problem not mine.
:lol:

 

[Oy vey]

if we discard an ex-pornstar as not good enough to read aloud, it teaches children that a woman's worth can begin and end with sex.

Yes!

Doesn't she receive loads of "positive" attention only because she's she's a pornstar? Doesn't that also teach that a woman's worth begins and ends with sex?

 

[Neudiin]

Although I'd say, if I had to pick between the 2 to read to my child?

POD people...only explanation!!! :shock: hehe

 

[JickyJuly]

If she's there to volunteer in a school district for which she pays taxes, her occupation and sexlife need not come into play. Should fast food workers not read at schools because our children might then dream of slinging burgers? Are they going to ask other volunteers what they do when their clothes come off at home? My point was that I'd prefer a child look up to someone for taking the time to read at school then look down at someone for her LEGAL and taxpaying career choices. Teaching kids that a woman's worth revolves around sex is wrong. Teaching them that a woman can be deemed worthless because of sex is much worse.

 

[Bocefish]

Doesn't she receive loads of "positive" attention only because she's she's a pornstar? Doesn't that also teach that a woman's worth begins and ends with sex?

That's ridiculous. That's like saying anyone who gets accolades for whatever reason suddenly becomes worthless and deserving of contempt afterwards.

 

[alexa7]

My take on this whole bit is she was an actress playing a part in a movie. Just like Angelina Jolie was a lesbian druggie model in Gia. Is that who Angelina Jolie really is? No, it was just a role in a movie. Sasha's just happen to be adult films. Us as cam girls aren't as widly known as someone like Sasha, and chances are no one would even suspect our occupation. We are different people for the most part when the cameras are off, and we are living our daily lives. I for one said myself that I spend a lot of time at my child's school, reading, doing crafts, chaperoning trips ect. Should I not be around kids because of what I do for a living? My "job" has given me the freedom to do all this, and I am grateful for it.

On the flip side I do believe that she knows she is well known. I think maybe she should have been a little more cautious and protect the children ( not because she may be embarrassed or not "proud of her craft"). I would have waited a few more years out of the industry. If I were her i would have found a way to help children in other ways. Maybe a scholarship type thing. Something like that could have given a very positive message on her part. She may be a very good person, but all things have a time and a place.

 

[Oy vey]

Doesn't she receive loads of "positive" attention only because she's she's a pornstar? Doesn't that also teach that a woman's worth begins and ends with sex?

That's ridiculous. That's like saying anyone who gets accolades for whatever reason suddenly becomes worthless and deserving of contempt afterwards.

I don't think you read that entire exchance or understood it's context Bocefish. JickyJuly wrote "if we discard an ex-pornstar as not good enough to read aloud, it teaches children that a woman's worth can begin and end with sex." indicating to me that women being valued for sex is bad and actions that cause that view to be established are bad too. So I asked myself what establishes value/worth in most peoples eyes today? Well, nothing seems to do it more visibly than cash and celebrity. Isn't that exactly what Sasha gets due only to her pornographic performances? Doesn't that then deliver that same BAD message about a woman's worth? A message, i might add, that would have been delivered long before she ever thought about wanting to read to a kid. I guess the image of a woman's value/worth only becames important when she is denied something.

 

[ViruSphere]

if we discard an ex-pornstar as not good enough to read aloud, it teaches children that a woman's worth can begin and end with sex.

Yes!

Doesn't she receive loads of "positive" attention only because she's she's a pornstar? Doesn't that also teach that a woman's worth begins and ends with sex?

Partially, but she gets loads of positive attention because she's destroying the stereotype of the typical adult film actress. For many years, female pornstars were thought of as being too stupid to do anything else in life and had to sell their bodies since they didn't have brains. Sasha Grey on the other hand, is extremely intelligent. Not extremely intelligent 'for a pornstar', she's extremely intelligent, period.

 

[Bocefish]

OyVey, if what JickyJuly said indicated to you that women being valued for sex is bad and actions that cause that view to be established are bad too, you might want to rethink that one.

As for cash and celebrity establishing value in most peoples eyes, I totally disagree. Most people that can think for themselves couldn't care less if somebody is a celebrity or has boatloads of cash. If they're unqualified to speak on a subject, the value placed on their opinion should be the same as any other unqualified Tom, Dick, or Harriet.

On the other hand, using a person's celebrity can be very beneficial. For examples of positive celebrity influences, I'll give you Jenny McCarthy, George Clooney and Paul Newman just to name a few.

Sasha Grey probably did what she did mostly for a PR stunt, but it brings to light that a person's past legal occupation should NOT hinder or unjustly influence their future potential for doing further good in the world.

 

[Paulie Walnuts]

The transition can be made quietly and smoothly, but if you insist on dragging your porn career with you then you're not going to have an easy time.

Take Asia Carerra for example. She got out of the business, married and had kids after moving to Utah of all places. She doesnt regret or have any shame over her career, but she made the transition and fit in right into her conservative community.

She started using her married last name, and didn't drag her porn career around as something to defend to everyone. She didnt try to make a new career using the old one as a stepping stone. She didnt make it some political soap box because she wanted her little kids to be free of that exposure for as long as possible.

As far I have read, she seems to have made the transition from porn queen to average Utah soccer mom with almost no flak at all.

I think if she had showed up at the PTA meeting and said "I'm Asia Carerra, I was the top porn star for (however long) and I'm not going to run away from or deny that fact. Ok which class do I read to first?"

There would have been a stink.
Also, Asia was not a hardcore borderline gonzo "actress". If she had been I imagine her best efforts would have failed.

It goes right back to before you pick a job, consider the long term effects of it on you, your ability to work anywhere else, and your future family. If you pick doing anal gang bangs on video for fame and fortune, don't be so shocked when one day when you want to forget it that nobody else does.

Looking back if I had to explain to my kids at 6 or so, what an anal gang bang was when they found out what the guest porn start reader at school did to be so famous, I think my kids would have ran screaming in horror from the table. :lol:

Then I'd have a whole new set of issues to deal with.

 

[Bocefish]

The transition can be made quietly and smoothly, but if you insist on dragging your porn career with you then you're not going to have an easy time.

From what little I know of Sasha, she basically doesn't want anything she does to go unnoticed. She does some seriously vile things and gets some of her kicks from shocking people. She was on the Tyra Banks' show when she was 18 bragging she all ready did some 80 scenes and got gang banged by 15 guys... so that should be a hint she tries to do certain things to get the most celebrity mileage from it. Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if she called TMZ or whoever to take her pictures in the classroom. :twocents-02cents:

 

[Oy vey]

OyVey, if what JickyJuly said indicated to you that women being valued for sex is bad and actions that cause that view to be established are bad too, you might want to rethink that one.

OK Bocefish, I think here's the discrepancy...
Your definition VALUED: highly regarded, prized or esteemed. As in - The ring grandma left me is one of my most valued posession.

My definition VALUED: estimated, appraised, priced. As in - We took grandma's ring to an appraiser and had it valued. or We took grandma's ring to an appraiser who valued it at $25.

My definition can also have a negative connotation because it involves something being judged, a worth being assigned, a "price tag" being hung on it. This valuation doesn't always happen in a monetary way either. Show up in a service workers uniform at a high end office suite and you will be valued and treated in a certain way, for example.

As for cash and celebrity establishing value in most peoples eyes, I totally disagree. Most people that can think for themselves couldn't care less if somebody is a celebrity or has boatloads of cash. If they're unqualified to speak on a subject, the value placed on their opinion should be the same as any other unqualified Tom, Dick, or Harriet.

I just don't get this one. First we're talking about value ($$) then we're talking about who is qualified to speak about something. All I can say is, when you find a Ford dealer that will let a qualified person pay for a new truck by speaking on a subject, instead of with cash, PLEASE let me know.

 

[camstory]

WOW this topic is so active right now it's a little daunting to post to for fear what you post will be a repeat by the time you get to up, or that it is a repeat just worded differently than it's predecessor. It also has gotten much more complex and nuanced than I believe it needed to to, or than what is good from the point of answering the basic question/s proposed. (What I believe changes nothing, ((but Vic wanted it added))).

I have to this point only read to the end of pg. 2, so I hope you will forgive me if this post is repetitive or otherwise duly flawed, or if not forgive, understand. Also I am incorperating a draft of two days ago, so if it seems a bit piecemeal, that's because it is.

Just opened this thread and read straight through to here.(at the time about 3/4 of pg 1) What I have read has drawn me out some from the
strong polorazation I felt when first I ran the basic question of this thread through my gray matter. That being broadly defined as, "How do we feel about a *recently retired **female porn ***star reading to ****our 6, 7, and 8 year old children?
*{Two years in this circumstance is not going to be seen as a long time.}
**{because I doubt there is one among us who would have the exact same feelings about a male porn star, even if we believe there should be no difference in theory.}
***{Because this is not just a porn actress, - I would guess "Sasha Grey" is one of the top ten most recognized names in hardcore porn in the last 10 years.}
****{To fairly consider this and to sit in judgment on those involved, we need to place our self in the place of these children's parents, as well as that of miss Grey's.}

At first (for myself) this seems like a pretty basic question. One that I would answer basically with this. "No there is no reason why I believe Sasha should not be permitted to read to my child. More importantly I don't see any harm coming from such reading.
If I had the choice, I would prefer to have AnnieForest read to my child, but those are rarely the sort of choices we get. So if it's Sasha reading, or that hour spent engaged in paper mache crafts for the home, - read Sasha read.

But see that is really much too simple isn't it? Yes as a stand alone question, the correct answer is the one above. But it is far from a stand alone question, for many reasons. Perhaps the most signifagant of those reasons being that, all of us, us concerned adults, caring parents, don't have it in us to allow our children to grow and learn as independent thinkers. I think I need to explain what I mean by that, because it could easily be misconstrued.

I do not mean to say that our children should be allowed to take what ever path that suites their fancy, just as long as we insure their safety, whilst allowing them unbridled freedom to grow. No, it is not that sort of horse shit I suggest at all.

So, now what it is that I mean by saying, we do not have it in us to allow our children to grow and learn as independent thinkers, is this. Shame on all of us, left, and right. Shame on the parents who gave this question power, when they started running their prejudices and recycled hatred out on their children's backs. Why do we continue to corrupt, and poison, beautiful fresh unbiased minds, with our passed down puritan prejudices, and bigoted, bullshit, high moral code?

A moral code, or as it was earlier put, our current social norm, here in the states is, bottom line, the flimsy foundation that supports this whole discussion. I realize that is something like saying, "if what you were doing, didn't piss me off, I would not get so mad". But lets examine our fucking high moral standards.

I personally think it is just ludicrous that we find murder, torture, mutilation, and hate, more acceptable for our children, than sex, physical communication, nudity, and love. WTF... what the fuck indeed. Is it not the case that it is common to find a movie such as Con-Air slotted in the prime time cable listing? Is it also not the case that shows such as Criminal Minds, and CSI start airing as early as 2 or 3 pm?

While scenes of any sort of nudity, or the slightest suggestion of sex, (A couple fully covered from shoulder to toe, lumped under a sheet), are relegated to late night cable, or late night premium/extra channel view.

What do I suggest? The normal airing of porn in prime time cable? Maybe soft porn for prime time, and hard core porn or that which depicts acts other than love making, for only late night? Why, that is just plain crazy. yes it sure seems a little crazy, I'll give you that. But is it? Or does it just seem to be from our point/frame of reference? So is that what I suggest? NO, - not in this post.
(I do not included the violent and/or abusive porn in the above ref.)

Lets consider for a minute our 16th president, good old Abe Lincoln. The great emancipator. A progressive and liberal political thinker for his time. In a pre-civil war debate he stated, " Anything that argues me into his idea of perfect social and political equality with the negro, is but a specious and fantastic arrangement of words, by which a man can prove a horse chestnut to be a chestnut horse." Or this, "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races,—that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality."

Lincoln did not use the word crazy, but it seems pretty clear to me that this is what he thought about white, and black living as equals. "specious and fantastic arrangement of words" to me sounds a lot like, "anyone who says that is just talking crazy." And, "physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality." Maybe does not quite suggest crazy, but it was his belief, that it could not/would not, come to be so, ever.

Lincoln, a brilliant man, and a liberal leaning progressive thinker, found it difficult to imagine, perhaps even crazy, to get his head around, what today any (correct thinking) person knows to be right. His frame of reference was much different than ours is. And for all the feeling to our bones that we are open minded, unbiased, progressive thinking folk, we need to understand, whether we can imagine it or not, that things, and beliefs, are going to be quite different in 150 years than they are now. And the most forward thinking one among us may seem very backward from that new frame of reference.

All this talk of frames of reference, and porn becoming mainstream, and my belief that the biggest threat to our children as far as sexuality, nudity, and adult entertainment are concerned, is our attitude about it. Are just that, my belief, and opinion. Though logic, and good sense suggest it, it may turn out different than I believe it will. It may be in 150 years that our current beliefs about sex will not be seen as backward and antiquated, I suppose. These are not fact, but merely conjecture.

What I do know as well as I know anything to be fact, is that this juxtaposition between how we feel, regulate, and collectively act, about violent, brutal, hateful shit, compared to sexual, natural, loving shit, is outrageously crazy, and backwards, and just plain fucked up.

(It would be interesting to know the number of people suffering from PTSD as they compare from war zone deployed solders to adult sex industry workers.) Not to suggest that there are not some very Psychologically harmful things that can, and do happen all the time in the adult entertainment industry. I'm just pointing out that it seems much more damaging to ones psyche, to see murder, and do murder, than it is to see someone fucked or to commit fuck.

I will try to wrap it up now with what this whole thing has left me feeling. Though I am sympathetic with the cause, or message that we need to start thinking differently about the sex industry and the people who did/do, and will work in it. And though I support any debate that will moves us closer to becoming intelligent animals. I think Sasha Grey is absolutely wrong in how she has gone about holding it up to the light.

I would like to believe that Sasha did this thinking it would hopefully improve the adult entertainment image, while knowing it would be good for her financially, and maybe even that the children would enjoy being read to.

But what to me seems pretty obvious is that her main thought, perhaps her only thought, as far as the children were concerned, was what they could do for her, and not what she could do for them. They were used as pawns to their detriment, I would bet. One could argue that the drama that these kids are caught up in might help to build catcher, and provide a unique learning experience. In the end whether or not it is a positive or negative experience is a gamble.

There are some things, irreplaceable things, that one should never gamble on, like your grandmother's wedding ring, or a 7 year old's childhood, even if it is just a piece of it.

So my first choice for story time, is AnnieForest. Although I would not have a problem with Sasha Grey reading to my child, if that were it. but if your talking about exposing my child to a media storm, a dozen volatile and outraged adults, well I would rather receive a new paper mache trash container every week for the entire school year, than put my child through that sort of garbage.

Bottom line (lets hope) it seems that this drama will only serve to further polarize people at the local level, will have little, or possibly no influence in shaping a healthier attitude toward sex, and at best will be a major distraction to the school kids.

The only thing it is sure to do, is increase sales for Sasha Grey. Fuck her - I may not have all the facts, but I'll be dammed if I'll let that stop me from voicing my :twocents-02cents:

 

[Paulie Walnuts]

I personally think it is just ludicrous that we find murder, torture, mutilation, and hate, more acceptable for our children, than sex, physical communication, nudity, and love.

When I think of sex, physical communication, nudity, and love I don't think of Sasha Grey getting her ass pounded by a 13 dude pile up.

I'm just old fashioned that way.
:lol:

 

[AshleyMarks]

Just found this link on another forum. Ann Oui says porn stars should not be around children. It's satire. You'll find that at the end of the article. http://business.avn.com/articles/video/ ... 54605.html

 

[camstory]

I personally think it is just ludicrous that we find murder, torture, mutilation, and hate, more acceptable for our children, than sex, physical communication, nudity, and love.

When I think of sex, physical communication, nudity, and love I don't think of Sasha Grey getting her ass pounded by a 13 dude pile up.

I'm just old fashioned that way.
:lol:

Well I don't know how abusive you thought I might have been thinking, but I would think most people might think that that 13 dude ass slam might be covered by this...

(I do not included the violent and/or abusive porn in the above ref.)

 

[camstory]

Just found this link on another forum. Ann Oui says porn stars should not be around children. It's satire. You'll find that at the end of the article. http://business.avn.com/articles/video/ ... 54605.html

I don't know who Ann Oui is, but I'm pretty sure she is not the decider of all things satire. So unless the story about Sasha was totally fabricated to pull off some satirical stunt, I don't know why it should influence our debate. But if she had a link here she could for sure engage in the debate, cuz most here feel deferentially than her.

Just saying that the way your post is worded it came across to me as sounding as if we all should hang our heads in shame and shuffle off, feeling badly that we ever considered the question anything but a joke. Sorry, maybe it's just me, I'm a little cranky.

 

[camstory]

Just found this link on another forum. Ann Oui says porn stars should not be around children. It's satire. You'll find that at the end of the article. http://business.avn.com/articles/video/ ... 54605.html

I don't know who Ann Oui is, but I'm pretty sure she is not the decider of all things satire. So unless the story about Sasha was totally fabricated to pull off some satirical stunt, I don't know why it should influence our debate. But if she had a link here she could for sure engage in the debate, cuz most here feel deferentially than her.

Just saying that the way your post is worded it came across to me as sounding as if we all should hang our heads in shame and shuffle off, feeling badly that we ever considered the question anything but a joke. Sorry, maybe it's just me, I'm a little cranky.

Sorry, just read the article and understand that the satire you were referring to, was that of the article's author in saying that porn stars should not be allowed around school kids.

 

[AshleyMarks]

Just found this link on another forum. Ann Oui says porn stars should not be around children. It's satire. You'll find that at the end of the article. http://business.avn.com/articles/video/ ... 54605.html

I don't know who Ann Oui is, but I'm pretty sure she is not the decider of all things satire. So unless the story about Sasha was totally fabricated to pull off some satirical stunt, I don't know why it should influence our debate. But if she had a link here she could for sure engage in the debate, cuz most here feel deferentially than her.

Just saying that the way your post is worded it came across to me as sounding as if we all should hang our heads in shame and shuffle off, feeling badly that we ever considered the question anything but a joke. Sorry, maybe it's just me, I'm a little cranky.

Nobody should "shuffle" off, I was just spreading the news. I don't think that the article is correct.
Porn stars are not sex offenders, it is not a crime to do porn. It was a link to an article found on another forum. Nobody should hang their heads in shame.

 

[camstory]

Just found this link on another forum. Ann Oui says porn stars should not be around children. It's satire. You'll find that at the end of the article. http://business.avn.com/articles/video/ ... 54605.html

I don't know who Ann Oui is, but I'm pretty sure she is not the decider of all things satire. So unless the story about Sasha was totally fabricated to pull off some satirical stunt, I don't know why it should influence our debate. But if she had a link here she could for sure engage in the debate, cuz most here feel deferentially than her.

Just saying that the way your post is worded it came across to me as sounding as if we all should hang our heads in shame and shuffle off, feeling badly that we ever considered the question anything but a joke. Sorry, maybe it's just me, I'm a little cranky.

Nobody should "shuffle" off, I was just spreading the news. I don't think that the article is correct.
Porn stars are not sex offenders, it is not a crime to do porn. It was a link to an article found on another forum. Nobody should hang their heads in shame.

I know Mercy, totally my miss read of your post. my mistake. really surprised how quickly this thread has went from very active to dead.