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Queen's speech includes porn age verification in the UK.

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Credit card info is impossible to fake. Sure, a kid can steal a parents card, but it takes some balls, planning, and work, and he will have to deal with consequences which is a deterrent.
This might be different depending on location, but as an American kid with busy, selfish party parents, I can say it would have been just as easy for me to click through something as it would have been to grab a card, jot down the number and use it. The kids that are at risk of being exposed to porn because of a click through are at risk because they are not parented fully. They will remain at risk with the credit card plan. Even if the credit card is charged, lots of parents who don't watch their kids don't watch their money either. As long as I didn't use an American Express card, I highly doubt my parents would have noticed.
 
Debit cards work too. I am from Spain and everyone has a debit card.



There are so many biased and loaded "scientific" studies on almost every topic that what you have in them is faith, they prove nothing. You don't really need to be a rocket scientist to realize that letting kids watch porn will harm them. Think about it. Kids are not even supposed to watch movies with troubling non-sexual content such as love triangles or horror scenes. Do you really think an 8 year old is equipped to handle watching a pregnant woman naked and masturbating while she milks her tits? Because that is the most popular room in Chaturbate right now. Do you think a 12 year old will understand videos where a husband is forced to watch how 5 men fuck his hotwife? Cuckold is one of the most popular categories on porntubes. We aren't talking about nudity done in a tasteful way, we are talking about sites with names like Punishtube. Women dressed like girls being fucked by old men. Do you want your 13 year old daughter watching that? Come on.

I'd be more worried about a child turning on FOX News during the day time and becoming desensitized to gun crime, hate crimes, racial prejudice, casual violence, rape, terrorism, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, political scaremongering, corporate greed, and media manipulation. I don't think the answer is to hide news behind a paywall though.

I agree that young children do deserve to be protected from overtly sexualised images but I disagree that the downfall of Western Civilization is in any way attributable to porn, and completely disagree that the answer is to demonise human sexuality and hide it away, censoring anything and everything that we don't like. I'm of the opinion that kids should be taught - by schools and especially by parents - about all facets of sexuality as soon as they're able to mentally process what they're being taught so that they can better understand why boys like girls and why some boys like other boys and some girls like other girls and why some boys don't want to be boys and why some girls don't want to be girls.

I think that the root of any societal problem caused by porn - and the types of porn that you mention - isn't simply that it exists, or even necessarily that young people might be able to access it, but rather that we don't teach kids about this stuff. We don't try to help them understand why any of it exists, we don't teach them about fetishes and why fetishes exist and why and how some fetishes can be dangerous, we don't teach adolescents that the sex depicted in porn is not realistic, that most women don't look like that, that most cocks aren't that big, that the absence of explicit consent in a lot of pornography is something that should never occur in real life sex, we don't teach them about addictions to pornography that can negatively impact their sex lives or that porn is not a substitute for sex and companionship with another human being. Censoring porn isn't going to help kids understand any of that. If anything, it's going to make it harder for kids to understand.
 
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I think it is a copout to say it's solely the job of parents to keep their kids safe and away from internet porn. The average age of the parents of a 12 year is in there 40s. There are plenty of 40 years who are pretty computer illiterate and most didn't grow up with the internet.

And I will say that your argument is a copout to proper parenting - anyone regardless of tech literacy can go on google and search for "how to prevent children from browsing porn", find that there are ways to prevent that and then can go to their local computer store to buy that software and have it installed on their computer for them - no tech literacy required, just money.

At the end of the day, the work of the parents is not only to try to provide an environment for the children to grow, but primarily to react to unexpected inputs and shape them into good lessons for the children - you can't wrap children and protect them from everything: sooner or later another child might show them something you don't approve of or they might witness a crime/accident that you need to explain in a way that doesn't harm them.

It is bit much to expect them to supervise all the screen time for their kids who are digital natives.. Especially in the age of tablet and smartphones.

Substitute the type of screen from 'computer/smartphone' to 'TV' and we go back to something that parents complained when we were younger, yet they still managed to control how much screen time we got (at least mine did).


There are so many biased and loaded "scientific" studies on almost every topic that what you have in them is faith, they prove nothing.

I wouldn't go dismissing that research analysis as biased based on their conclusion - Ofcom does have a bias, but not the one you suggest - being the entity that is paid to review (and rate or refuse to rate) every single piece of content sold in the UK, more censorship means more money for them.

You don't really need to be a rocket scientist to realize that letting kids watch porn will harm them. Think about it. Kids are not even supposed to watch movies with troubling non-sexual content such as love triangles or horror scenes

Citation needed. I fail to see how difficult it is to explain a love triangle or a horror scene to a kid in an age-appropriate manner .. Or even sex related situations - just look at what the Dutch educational system does: they treat sex like any other aspect of life and they have a completely stable society, with lower rate of STDs and unwanted pregnancies, specially among teenagers, compared to any other western country.


As for your comments about fertility rates dropping, people not marrying, etc being bad things - I will just have to quote The Dude: "Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.": we could argue about it for ages, but my opinion is the polar opposite of yours and odds are that neither of us is right anyway.
 
I think that the root of any societal problem caused by porn - and the types of porn that you mention - isn't simply that it exists, or even necessarily that young people might be able to access it, but rather that we don't teach kids about this stuff. We don't try to help them understand why any of it exists, we don't teach them about fetishes and why fetishes exist and why and how some fetishes can be dangerous, we don't teach adolescents that the sex depicted in porn is not realistic, that most women don't look like that, that most cocks aren't that big, that the absence of explicit consent in a lot of pornography is something that should never occur in real life sex, we don't teach them about addictions to pornography that can negatively impact their sex lives or that porn is not a substitute for sex and companionship with another human being. Censoring porn isn't going to help kids understand any of that. If anything, it's going to make it harder for kids to understand.

I don't know where you are, but where I am (UK) this is so true. While I understand that sex education in schools now is much broader than the simple mechanics that I was taught as a 13 year old in biology lessons, and now spans many years from a younger age and does encompas many of the issues you raise, school are allowed to opt out of teaching it entirely, and parents can withdraw their children.

There seem to be too many adults horrified at the thought their children will discover sex, and politicians determined to legislate to imopse their morals (or the morals they ascribe to their core voter base - I'm desparately trying to avoid mentioning a tabloid newspaper here) onto everyone else through legislation.
 
Debit cards are not very usable as age verification, as long as you have your own bank account you can get one, no need to be over 18.
My sister had a very simple, non-tech solution when her kids were younger: the computer was in the living room, no blocking software or anything like that, till the kids were 15-16 and got their own laptops.
 
As someone in the UK this is NOT true. I have never had to opt-in for porn sites.

Ah so if you haven't had to sign a new contract and "opt in" to view porn, it must be false.
I've provided not just evidence from the news corps, but also personally had to do it several times (since i've moved frequently and have new suppliers). Both BT and Sky I had to tick the box to opt in.
 
Not quite sure who your ISP is - but if they operate (i.e provide a service) within the UK, then they must comply with the law.
Of course.

There is no legal requirement for ISPs to offer adult content filtering (aka "active choice") to subscribers. The government would like ISPs to offer it, and most of the big ones have caved to political pressure and implemented it, but there has not to date been any legislation that grants the home secretary or any other minister to require it. Somehow a lot of people have formed the impression that it is the law, possibly because David Cameron talked about it a lot a few years ago. There was never any legislation though, just secret letters to the ISPs.
 
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I'd be more worried about a child turning on FOX News during the day time and becoming desensitized to gun crime, hate crimes, racial prejudice, casual violence, rape, terrorism, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, political scaremongering, corporate greed, and media manipulation. I don't think the answer is to hide news behind a paywall though.

Here is the thing we actually have more than 30 years of research in scores of studies that show there isn't a relationship between exposure to violence in the media (TV, movie, video games) and kids behavior. At macro level despite an explosion of violence in the media and coverage of the all the things you list, the trends are the right direction. Violence is roughly 1/2 in the US of what it was 25 years ago, and sharply down in most places in the west. Homophobia, hate crimes, racial prejudice, gun crimes etc are all way down. In the US, the biggest decrease in violence is among young men 15-19. My theory (no proof) is that a generation ago bored teenager boys were out doing Grand Theft auto (It was a hell of a lot easier to hotwire car back then than it is today), today kids are inside playing GTA on their Xbox. So while your worry is understandable, the social science says your intuition is wrong.

I agree that young children do deserve to be protected from overtly sexualised images but I disagree that the downfall of Western Civilization is in any way attributable to porn, and completely disagree that the answer is to demonise human sexuality and hide it away, censoring anything and everything that we don't like. I'm of the opinion that kids should be taught - by schools and especially by parents - about all facets of sexuality as soon as they're able to mentally process what they're being taught so that they can better understand why boys like girls and why some boys like other boys and some girls like other girls and why some boys don't want to be boys and why some girls don't want to be girls.

I think that the root of any societal problem caused by porn - and the types of porn that you mention - isn't simply that it exists, or even necessarily that young people might be able to access it, but rather that we don't teach kids about this stuff. We don't try to help them understand why any of it exists, we don't teach them about fetishes and why fetishes exist and why and how some fetishes can be dangerous, we don't teach adolescents that the sex depicted in porn is not realistic, that most women don't look like that, that most cocks aren't that big, that the absence of explicit consent in a lot of pornography is something that should never occur in real life sex, we don't teach them about addictions to pornography that can negatively impact their sex lives or that porn is not a substitute for sex and companionship with another human being. Censoring porn isn't going to help kids understand any of that. If anything, it's going to make it harder for kids to understand.

Everything, you said makes logical sense, and perhaps the answer is as simple as education. Although I don't know if explaining much of this stuff to tween is a good idea, much less how a parent would go about explaining fetishes.

But I think what's important to understand is that this is all one giant social experiment, that we have been rushing to at crazy fast speeds. 5 years ago, you were hard-pressed to find free live sex shows on the net (MFC banned performer from doing them, as did almost all other cam sites.) I'm not sure exactly when Tube site became popular but I'm going to say within the last ten years. I do know (since I did it) that at the turn of the century if you typed in "Gangbang" to the premier search engine of the time (AltaVista) you get hundreds of hits for porn websites. In virtually all cases while you see plenty of pictures of naked woman, cocks, spread shots, dildo in vagina were all pixelate or rarely limited to still images. If you wanted to see videos, you had to produce a credit card and typical pay a $1 or $2 for a preview, and $10-25 for a month access. It was possible to get free hardcore porn, but it was beyond the capabilities of most users, and while I'm sure that determined teenage boys still found porn, I think it was a lot harder for kids under 12 to find it. I know there are a number of folks on the forum, who would have been around 12 in 2000 so feel free to tell me I'm full of shit and that you were regularly watching gangbang or whatever videos at that age around the turn of the century.

The US is has gone down the path of making hardcore porn readily available to children. The US constitution as well as Supreme Court decision pretty much assure that we aren't going to down Britain's path. It appears that most Europe is doing the same thing. Countries like China, most of the Middle East and parts of Asia are making it hard for kids to access porn.

Which path is going to produce healthier children? Hell if I know, and I can tell you that anybody who claims that do know is full of shit. It is illegal to show kids porn pretty much everywhere and so there very little research, and what little there has been focuses on teenagers.

I think what the UK doing is a good idea, simply as control group. So that in 20 years when sociologists look at the impact of exposure to porn on young children we aren't trying to figure out who's kids are more fucked up the US or Saudi Arabia, but rather a country more like us the UK.
 
It is very simple and requires simple common sense: do you agree that the brain of an 8 year old is different than yours? Yes/no. Do you agree that their brains are being formed and are less capable than yours to form an opinion about what they are watching? Yes/no. Do you think a 6 year old is as capable as you are to determine right from wrong? Yes/no. Do you agree sexual fantasies depicted in porn often blur the lines of what is deemed right? Yes/no. Do you think a kid younger than 15 is capable of processing that information? Yes/no.

I get that in the West the left is constantly pressing society to eliminate any social taboos no matter what they are, and they lower the ages more with every passing year > age of consent, age at which they start teaching kids sex education (they are pushing for kindergarten sex ed class in some places) and agreeing with this is all currently seen as peogressive and a signal of virtue but it is nothing but a dangerous social experiment like weirdbr said. Social taboos and sexual mores are there for a reason, because they help family formation which is the underpin of civilization. I would go into detail but there is just too much to say and too much effort to post on this thread. Still if anyone is interested send me a PM and we can discuss this further.
 
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I wouldn't go into a dive bar on a sketchy part of town that looks like I will get shot or herpes in their toilet.

Whoa, I didn't even know this was possible, huge fan of ladies and all their parts, but I'm definitely glad I can pee standing up. :eek:
 
Whoa, I didn't even know this was possible, huge fan of ladies and all their parts, but I'm definitely glad I can pee standing up. :eek:
We don't generally rub our vaginas or anuses on fresh bodily fluids found on public toilets. So, no cause for concern as it is basically impossible to contract this incredibly common disease in this manner.
 
Would still be worth risking herpes and getting shot for three dollar jack and cokes anyway. Gotta live a little.
 
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I get that in the West the left is constantly pressing society to eliminate any social taboos no matter what they are, and they lower the ages more with every passing year

Mila, you struck a chord there. I'm seeing these kids as young as 6 coming out trans-gendered and I've been baffled by that, need to re-examine my thought process with sex and social trends.

BTW, since 90% of everyone has been exposed to herpes you're much more likely to get it from mum or gran giving you a Thanksgiving kiss than a toilet seat. So pee freely
 
Ah so if you haven't had to sign a new contract and "opt in" to view porn, it must be false.
I've provided not just evidence from the news corps, but also personally had to do it several times (since i've moved frequently and have new suppliers). Both BT and Sky I had to tick the box to opt in.
What a shameful post. Are you trolling? I moved house and had a new internet contract in th last 18 months.
 
I'm seeing these kids as young as 6 coming out trans-gendered and I've been baffled by that,

I don't know any transgender people personally but I've seen shows where they say they've known or felt like they were trapped in the wrong body all their lives and trying to live the way they thought they were "supposed" to has given them all kinds of messed up psychological issues ranging from depression to suicide attempts. While it might seem strange because you or I have never felt that way and dont really understand it, I'd rather see people coming out at a young age then bottling it up and being totally messed up later in life.

It is very simple and requires simple common sense: do you agree that the brain of an 8 year old is different than yours? Yes/no. Do you agree that their brains are being formed and are less capable than yours to form an opinion about what they are watching? Yes/no. Do you think a 6 year old is as capable as you are to determine right from wrong? Yes/no. Do you agree sexual fantasies depicted in porn often blur the lines of what is deemed right? Yes/no. Do you think a kid younger than 15 is capable of processing that information? Yes/no.

I agree the answer to all of these questions is yes but I don't think that pretending all these things don't exist is the answer or imagining that whatever controls you put in place mean a kid will never be exposed to them. What if your kid goes to his friends house who has an older brother who lets them see all this stuff? I believe that children are far more capable of undertanding these things when it is explained to them that it's not real and it's not an accurate reflection of how it should be in real life. If a kid is left to form an opinion on his own because the parents want to pretend it doesnt exist or the schools arent allowed to provide realistic sex education then that will cause much more problems.

Also Kindergarten sex ed is ridiculous common sense to me would say that an appropriate age would be around the begining of puberty whenever that is, like 11 or 12
 
Of course.

There is no legal requirement for ISPs to offer adult content filtering (aka "active choice") to subscribers. The government would like ISPs to offer it, and most of the big ones have caved to political pressure and implemented it, but there has not to date been any legislation that grants the home secretary or any other minister to require it. Somehow a lot of people have formed the impression that it is the law, possibly because David Cameron talked about it a lot a few years ago. There was never any legislation though, just secret letters to the ISPs.

This is where it descends into confusion and meandering difficulties. The part you are quoting is in direct reference to your comment that your ISP has said it'd even move overseas to avoid Government legislation to force anything.

I was responding to your statement directly by saying "If you operate within the UK you have to comply with UK law" - so going overseas doesn't change that. That's a 100% fact and only applicable to your sentences about your ISP saying it'd move its company overseas yet operate within the UK.

The bit about law and legislation was regarding the recent Queen's speech and how legislation would make it a legal obligation to do age verification. That is also a fact (if they manage to pass it), making it a law. The article about this can be found on any news site - here's the nearly bust Independent :)
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-users-to-register-credit-cards-a7035666.html

So the confusion created seems to be that this is on the supplier of the material (sites), not the ISP's, with regards to the law. So why your ISP would move overseas when this legislation won't affect them; and any legislation that did affect them they'd have to either stop operating or start being taken to court. So their stance is a soundbyte for the gullible.

The bit about ISP's doing filtering is, as I have already said previously, a Government led initiative - where a bit of persuasion is pushed onto ISP's to give people an "opt in" to view porn. Nothing about law being said... but it has been adopted by many ISP's. There's no obligation on their part, though many signed up to it. Likewise there is large scale blocking of various illegal content (most notably child pornography) as well; they voluntarily adhere to that.

I brought that up as the new law is basically the next attempt, and its pushing the onus ever further onto others. We've had parent blocks - how about educating them to use them? We've had opt in filters provided by the majority of the large ISP's - yet that seems to do nothing too.

Is this going to work? Highly unlikely. It didn't work in 1999/2000 when they were a common way of trying to generate money via porn, so they're unlikely to work now to prevent children from seeing porn.
 
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Mila, you struck a chord there. I'm seeing these kids as young as 6 coming out trans-gendered and I've been baffled by that, need to re-examine my thought process with sex and social trends.

BTW, since 90% of everyone has been exposed to herpes you're much more likely to get it from mum or gran giving you a Thanksgiving kiss than a toilet seat. So pee freely
Gender and sexuality are not one in the same. A 6 year old knows if they are a boy or a girl... It's the same principle. No need to sexualize gender
 
Agreed, no need to sexualize gender, what I have in mind is that kids of that age are fluid in their thinking. For instance a recent study proposes six year old white children think they can grow up to be black. At present that's not something they need to decide, though who knows down the road.
 
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Agreed, no need to sexualize gender, what I have in mind is that kids of that age are fluid in their thinking. For instance a recent study proposes six year old white children think they can grow up to be black. At present that's not something they need to decide, though who knows down the road.
This makes sense to me instinctively. While I haven't studied the research, it seems like there's a lot of benefit to just letting children especially explore what it means to be them, including with regard to gender. I think most people have masculine and feminine aspects to their personality and they're not always consistently dominant. Asking a six year old to make a binary identification as cis or trans with the implication that they must stick to it doesn't feel right.

I walked into a big block toy store the other day and they literally split the lane right at the entrance - girls toys right, boys toys left. Such complete utter bullshit to me. I feel very fortunate that when I was a kid I could have dolls, stuffed animals, action figures, toy trains, legos and ez bake ovens and make great imaginative worlds full of science and emotions without anyone telling me it was the "wrong" toy for me.

Sorry, tangent.

On topic, I'm for giving parents tools, against government censorship, which this seems to be approaching.
 
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So the thing is, I think if we start more comprehensive and inclusive sex ed at younger ages, we are ultimately benefiting kids.

I'm not saying we need to go into pre-k and get into the nitty gritty about the day to day life of a fetish model. But I've seen sample lesson plans for those age groups, and "sex-ed" can be something as simple as "some girls like girls and some boys like boys and some boys like girls and that's all fine" and teaching kids that being mean to a girl is not an appropriate way to show you like her (I could rant about this issue for ages).

Biology lessons are not enough anymore, while they are important, honestly I think we can all appreciate that hormone crazed teens care a lot less about how their bodies work and a lot more about the good feels they can get with them.

In modern society, everything we do is hypersexualized. I've seen high fashion ads that look as smutty as some videos I've shot.

I think it's more important to accept that kids are going to find porn and it's going to make us all uncomfortable but it's critical that we all remember that porn and real life are very different things.

Mind you, I'm also still the girl who supports letting your teenage daughter get a vibrator because I know girls in their 20s who still think they need a dude to get the job done. So I guess I fall into the super liberal camp on this one.
 
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