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Porn: Why am I/are we here?

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Now I'm confused. What was the reason for your original post? You seem pretty happy in your new ways and it doesn't sound like you want porn to be a part of your life. So what exactly are you here looking for?

If porn is unhealthy for you then good for you for realizing it but I certainly hope that you aren't assuming that because it has been an unhealthy outlet in your life that it must be that way for everyone.

Trying to come up with a clear and straightforward reason for this topic is difficult because I see myself as engaged in a process of exploration and discovery. I don't know exactly what I'm looking for. I don't know exactly what is right for me: porn or no porn. If I had to guess why I am here, I would say I want to be exposed to the perspectives of those in the porn industry and to better understand why they do what they do. I also want the chance to speak my own mind about it all, not only so my thinking can be subject to critique, but so that I can better find out what I actually think, and then whether or not it holds up.

Regardless of whether I continue to involve myself with porn or not, I want to understand why others do. Again, I'm not here to judge. I am just trying to understand.

While porn has revealed problems in my life, I do not blame those problems on porn. They were there before porn. Porn just brought them into greater focus. For example, I struggled with impulse control long before getting into porn. Low self-confidence and esteem are longstanding issues, as well as relentless self-criticism, all of which made it less likely that I would date or date successfully in real life. My struggle with porn helped make me desperate enough to seek help in places I had not gone before and to ask questions about life I hadn't previously faced. It helped soothe my anxiety and was itself an act of facing my fear (remember, I grew up afraid of porn and sex, but this actually extended to relationships with girls in general). So I can hardly view it as all bad in my own life, whether or not I decide to continue it or not. Yeah, it's a time sink and overdoing it isn't healthy. All of that can theoretically be brought under control and into a more healthy place, though. I'm working on that. The question is, when I do, will I continue? What place does porn have in my life?

I am thankful for my time here. It's nice to see people in the industry as people for a change. Before porn I had been guilty of objectification in the sense that I judged what I did not know and feared. Maybe it seems horrible to some of you who are immersed in this industry, but aren't we all guilty of this at times?

If I had life all figured out and my mind made up I wouldn't be posting here. But I'm glad that's not the case! I'd rather be human with the rest of ye.
 
I agree with @Kitsune a lot (on her point and also that it's unpopular on this, a board full of people who watch and/or make porn, haha).

Overall I don't think porn is especially healthy or a positive thing in society. I have concerns about ~the children~ and how accessible porn is. and the common occurance of escalation where just watching some chick get fucked isn't interesting anymore and you slowly start looking for more extreme things. I don't think porn intended for adults has a responsibility to censor itself or be educational just because kids will inevitably find it; that said, I think it's not insignificant that kids have increasing access to adult content (of all kinds -- porn, movies, etc) and will be exposed to and shaped by it. (I saw Jaws when I was little and it terrified me for life!!! :p)

Being a psych student who's interested in sexuality, I read a lot of studies about the effects of porn and they paint a fairly grim picture.
Imo, the problems associated with pornography are not entirely caused by pornography it self. If you argue that pornography has adverse effects on society, you are over looking other factors. Specifically: tubsites offering an abundance of free pirated hardcore pornography.
Before those sites started popping up back in 2007,
only a limited amount of free content was available to minors. Also, pornography addiction is not caused by porn alone. Beneath the surface, there is other stuff causing it.
 
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Read Ecclesiastes.

Heh. I will admit it's been a while. If memory serves, Ecclesiastes mainly emphasizes the vanity of life. All is temporary and passes into death, so pursue what good you can during your days of life, love God, and keep his commandments. But those who try to hold on to life's pleasures will be sorely disappointed.

Does this accord?

Part of what I've been learning as I begin to study mindfulness is how to accept that pain is a part of life, rather than always trying to avoid it. By accepting pain and allowing yourself the chance to actually experience it, you allow it pass through you and move on in its own time rather than remaining trapped inside where all sorts of problems can occur.

I guess when I speak of wanting more what I mean is that I do not want to live in perpetual struggle with reality. I don't want to waste my life in a fruitless struggle of avoiding pain and demanding constant pleasure. Yes, I want God to exist, for him to be surpassingly Good, and for life to not cease utterly with death. But I realize that wanting doesn't necessarily make it so. I wish to accept the existence of pain even as I still hold that evil is evil and should not be called otherwise, and that good is worth believing in and striving for.

Well, this actually becomes rather complicated because it seems part of Buddhist philosophy and mindfulness practice is the gradual realization that good and evil are arbitrary distinctions and do not exist. I don't know what I think about this. It is too new and I have no actual experience with it. The argument seems to be that as one realizes the interconnectedness of all things, any notion of individualized blame falls apart. The parts are merely performing the functions given to them as part of the larger whole.

Don't quote me on that. I honestly don't know. It's interesting, but my current understanding of it all doesn't sit well with me presently. I am fine with admitting that a person's position and behaviors in life are shaped by a large number of external forces. Though it can be very difficult, defaulting to a stance of grace and compassion in the presence of another's apparent wrongdoing seems to me the right thing to do. That said, if someone tortures and kills a person, while I may be able to develop a compassionate understanding for that person and why they did what they did, I could hardly condone their actions. The word I would use for the actions themselves is "evil."

Anyway, I didn't mean to turn this into a more general philosophical discussion. I will try to keep things to the topic at hand. I will have another post soon posing another issue/question I have with porn. Again, I appreciate all the wonderful replies. :)
 
I do agree with most of what @GenXoxo said. I'm passionate about pornography because of how I was brought up. My Mom knows what I do and she genuinely believes that porn is rape. That no one on this planet enjoys any kind of kinks, that they are forced on us against our will, that I have been tricked by the media and a male dominated society to think that I enjoy things that I really don't. "I don't enjoy this so clearly anyone who does has been brainwashed" is the thought process and long before I started this job it infuriated me. I find it disgusting, anti-woman bullshit and it really backfired since it pushed me to not just love porn but to want to be a part of it. All of this though is why I see porn to be such a positive thing. It's mere existence proves that people who think that way are wrong, and I believe that that thought process is so incredibly damaging that I will praise anything that has the ability to dismantle it. My husband was raised very religious and he doesn't have any issues with his sexuality because of it. It affected other parts of his life but by the time he hit puberty he was completely over the church and all it stood for so he ended up fine. Everyone is different. I only know that with my own experiences I see any shameless expression of sexuality as a good thing.

Even if the girl involved is just doing it for a paycheck, maybe she isn't into anal or gangbangs or whatever, it's filling someone's fantasy and if she is fine with that then that is all that matters. What it takes for her to be fine with it could be anything, maybe she even hated it but the money is worth it to her, that would okay because she is a person and she is smart enough to make her own decisions. That is really what my opinion boils down to, are you (not you, op) the person deciding whether you want to be in this video/show/etc? No? Then your opinion on it is completely useless and you thinking you're in a place to even form an opinion on it borders on arrogant. That to me is sexist. Can we just trust women to be smart enough to make their own decisions? So many people do but the second that decision involves her taking her clothes off then everyone wants to jump in. How many people in this world work just for the paycheck and hate what they do or who they work with? That's not bad and it's not good, it's just someone doing the best they can with their life and if a woman is in that same situation in the adult industry, that's not good or bad either. It just is. It doesn't make her a victim.

Why I do porn: A lot of why I do porn could be said about any form of self employment. I make my own hours, I can make more money in a smaller amount of time, making my own rules is empowering, I love working from home and not depending on anyone else to help me raise my children because I have to work 9-5. More porn specific reasons would be that I just enjoy it, I have a pretty significant sexual appetite and I certainly never get bored of masturbating for strangers, I have a fetish for being wanted/worshiped, I'm very introverted and my job also fills 99% of my social needs without ever socially overwhelming me, and because of everything else I have said it makes me feel good to be an example of a woman in control of her own sexuality and not afraid of it.

Why I watch porn: I want to cum. 99% of the time I view or read porn it is because I have a specific fetish, always a similar one, and I need a little motivation when I masturbate. They're the same things I often think about when I have sex with my husband, it's just that when I'm alone I really prefer to get deep into the fetish and think harder about it, so I like to read/watch it. I on rare occasions will hang out on MFC and tip a camgirl, I'll do that for company. I don't even talk to the girls, I just tip and silently lurk but it's really happy medium for my level of social needs vs social anxiety.

I will say that when I said something like there's nothing more world changing than a woman who owns her sexuality, I certainly didn't mean porn! I meant that whether you want to have five dicks a night, wait until marriage, be in a ddlg or polyamorous relationship, whatever you want to do just own it and if you do then I believe that you're making the world a better place for women everywhere. It's just that that can also be applied to someone who is in porn because they genuinely want to be there and love their job.
 
Imo, the problems associated with pornography are not entirely caused by pornography it self. If you argue that pornography has adverse effects on society, you are over looking other factors. Specifically: tubsites offering an abundance of free pirated hardcore pornography.
Before those sites started popping up back in 2007,
only a limited amount of free content was available to minors. Also, pornography addiction is not caused by porn alone. Beneath the surface, there is other stuff causing it.

I'm confused by your point about tubesites-- how would that counter any of what I said? Im also confused by what you mean by "other factors" that you think I'm overlooking. I didn't assert a causal relationship but beyond that, I think I addressed the tubesites thing by talking about accessibility?

And I intentionally said nothing about porn addiction, though obviously any addiction is mitigated by loads of external & internal factors. :)
 
I'm confused by your point about tubesites-- how would that counter any of what I said? Im also confused by what you mean by "other factors" that you think I'm overlooking. I didn't assert a causal relationship but beyond that, I think I addressed the tubesites thing by talking about accessibility?

And I intentionally said nothing about porn addiction, though obviously any addiction is mitigated by loads of external & internal factors. :)
I was saying that the existence of pornography itself is not the problem. It's the tubesites that are the problem.
 
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I was saying that the existence of pornography itself is not the problem. It's the tubesites that are the problem.

So it's the fact that people can access the porn? If there's nothing wrong with porn, why would the accessibility make a difference? (I'm not being argumentative for the sake of arguing; genuinely asking.)
 
So it's the fact that people can access the porn? If there's nothing wrong with porn, why would the accessibility make a difference? (I'm not being argumentative for the sake of arguing; genuinely asking.)

Well it is intended for adults and definitely isn't good or healthy for minors. Part of your original argument was bringing up minors and their access to it. Without tube sites, those minors wouldn't have nearly as easy access and very minimal access to any hardcore pornography. So we all agree porn isn't good for kids but it isn't porn's fault when it's found, it's the tube sites. Regardless this is kind of a moot point, tube sites exist because porn does and they always will so the effect of either on children or society in general can't be separated in this age.
 
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Well it is intended for adults and definitely isn't good or healthy for minors. Part of your original argument was bringing up minors and their access to it. Without tube sites, those minors wouldn't have nearly as easy access and very minimal access to any hardcore pornography. So we all agree porn isn't good for kids but it isn't porn's fault when it's found, it's the tube sites. Regardless this is kind of a moot point, tube sites exist because porn does and they always will so the effect of either on children or society in general can't be separated in this age.
The reason why tubesites exist is because the countries that they are based in have lax copyright laws.
 
Imo, the problems associated with pornography are not entirely caused by pornography it self. If you argue that pornography has adverse effects on society, you are over looking other factors. Specifically: tubsites offering an abundance of free pirated hardcore pornography.
Before those sites started popping up back in 2007,
only a limited amount of free content was available to minors. Also, pornography addiction is not caused by porn alone. Beneath the surface, there is other stuff causing it.
When I was a minor I had to watch 80's sex comedies for my porn needs. I can't really enjoy them anymore now that I am older though, the things that those boys being boys did in those movies was often both illegal and wrong.
 
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The reason why tubesites exist is because the countries that they are based in have lax copyright laws.

That is true, what I said is also true. I'm saying that you couldn't study the effects of pornography without tube sites being a part of it also unless you are studying the effects of pornography on different generations which would have a lot of other issues obviously. Both will be around forever and getting into that I feel is a bit off topic.
 
When I was a minor I had to watch 80's sex comedies for my porn needs. I can't really enjoy them anymore now that I am older though, the things that those boys being boys did in those movies was often both illegal and wrong.
When I was a teenager I watched nude scenes from comedy movies and slasher movies downstairs when my foster parents weren't home.
 
When I was a minor I had to watch 80's sex comedies for my porn needs. I can't really enjoy them anymore now that I am older though, the things that those boys being boys did in those movies was often both illegal and wrong.

My teenage sexual awakening can be encapsulated by three words: Spice Girls postcards.
 
Me doing porn had nothing at all to do with sex. I'm graysexual, and I only get horny about once every four months. I want to have sex for like ten minutes, get bored, and usually end up saying something like, "Are you almost done? I wanna do something else" to my partner. I don't view sex as a necessary thing in my life, and in fact relationships would be a lot easier for me if it didn't exist. It feels like an obligation to me, and I really hate feeling guilty about not having sex enough when I'm in relationships.

That all being said: porn was a way for me to express my creativity. That's why I started. I'd put so much time and energy into cosplaying, and finally I had a way to not only show it off in a fun way, but also a way to make money doing it. Porn is fun for me. I get to dress up and make videos I'm proud of. Porn is also a job that gives me my own hours, and as someone who struggles with mental illness, I needed that. Quitting a vanilla job was the best decision I ever made.

Now I have more time to devote to my writing and getting published. I have a job I love and find fun and enjoyable. I set my own hours. I don't have to worry about abiding by someone else's time schedule and rules. If I'm sick, I can stay home. If someone is a jerk, I can block them. Everything in my life is better because I do porn.
 
I want to address things a couple of people said about my opinion, because my views don't get any air time in the media and people aren't used to hearing them so hopefully you will find things you haven't been exposed to. Everything I will say on this post is my personal opinion, some of it is based on scientific findings, the rest on common sense. I am not looking for provocation, but I have my own writing style so don't take anything personally.

Counterpoint: is the "traditional society" truly something to aspire to/lament the corruption of? (...) Marriage strikes me as an outdated institution that has all but lost its meaning and creates and exacerbates as many problems as it solves (not saying that people shouldn't marry the people they love, just that making marriage something akin to a societal mandate and a pre-requisite for sex isn't practical or productive any longer). Then there's the fact that not everybody wants children, and with the planet already being over-populated as it is, and unwanted and unloved children being an all too common occurrence, is that truly a bad thing?

It isn't a coincidence that every civilization was founded on marriage. Because civilization is marriage. Marriage is born out of material necessity and poor conditions such as a cold climate, and becomes a genetic reality after a couple of thousand years of natural selection (I will explain this below). But it is the optimal organization for advancement: children rearing, building structures, law creation, and peace.

Women and men are different, they have different sexualities. While men look for variety and are happy sexing up women above and below their "league", women are not, which is why women are the ones to choose. Without marriage women are free to pursue their hypergamy instinct to the fullest which means they seek the best man they can find. This ends up in a scenario in which most women seek out the best men, the best men accept a wide range of women who are their equals and below them so they pool around them and the best men get to live a life of low commitment. Average and below average men without special skills are ignored.
mating_cad_dad-copy1.jpg

Marriage puts a limit on both women's hypergamy and men's quest for variety so it forces both to settle for one partner. Women will still look to settle with the best men they can (this explains the popularity of Jane Austen's novels) but they have to eventually choose someone who pursues them for marriage. The top quality men that would have sexed them up in Hypergamyville won't look at them for marriage. If a top quality man must settle in marriage he will also look for the best woman he can get, "harems" are for low commitment environments.

So marriage is an insurance that every person in society will have a life partner and offspring. It is a insurance that every child will have two parents who will be highly invested in their rearing. My generation lives in a perpetual hookup culture. Since women can work and provide for themselves they have no need to settle for a man who will provide for them. Average men who used to be providers are now redundant. In this context women have sex with as many men they can until one morning they hit the wall at say, 42, and realize that their time is up, if they want a child they will have to settle. So they settle... but by then since they are old, the only man who will want to marry them is one of the incels we discussed above. She then has her one autistic child, and then divorces the husband she didn't really want in the first place. So on top of having health issues from being conceived at an old age, her child also grows up without a father.

Monogamous marriage is better than the scenario above. Women do crave a committed man naturally and they ride the cock carousel in the hopes that one of the men they have hookups with will finally commit to them, but they rarely do because there is no incentive to do it. Hypergamyville is created by women but it makes women unhappy. In a marriage scenario the best men are also forced to settle.

Marriage creates the traditional family and the concept of private property. In a society that never developed marriage people live in tribes where everything is communally shared and there is no concept of private property so there is little incentive to create anything new. Family, on the other hand, allows for couples to work and the product of their work becomes an inheritance that their offspring will receive. This organization then, creates the perfect incentive to work, to build, and to amass wealth which propels society forward. Laws are then created to organize private property. With marriage there is civilization, without marriage there are tribes in the jungle. We all love iPhones and Netflix so I would say that marriage is definitely not an obsolete concept and it is better than the alternative.

Every civilization reaches a point of prosperity in which they take their wealth for granted, dismiss everything that made them successful, and start to dismantle their foundations. In our society this is what feminism is. If you take every single thing that will sabotage marriage and family and make a doctrine out of it you end up with feminism. But it has had other names and other faces in the past. Rome also reached a pinnacle in which people stopped getting married, they had their own sexual liberation, and it was the cause of their decline. It has a lot to do with what I will explain below as a response to @DonaDiabla's post

But before I do that, a quick note about the overpopulation meme: what does overpopulation even mean? Humans are not bacteria in a petri dish. We have always exploited resources artificially and went beyond what nature could do to sustain us. That is what agriculture and husbandry are. We will continue to figure out ways to provide for ourselves without depending on Pachamama.

Actually, Kitsune, sex holds no meaning in my culture at all. It was taught as an function nothing more nor less. Sure, it gives you pleasure and babies but it is meaningless in my cultural values. So, I am not pretending to be edgy or whatever. My parents, grandparents, and all of my ancestors believed this as well.. I do not believe that sex holds anything because that is how I was raised. Everyone in my family is raised that way and everyone finds "romantic" love to be fairy tales for those of the Western world. Nor do I believe in such fairy tales as that is not apart of my culture. For centuries, my ancestors even got married for cultural, financial and practical reasons. Thus,I do not have any hangups over sex nor sex work. I do not come from a Western mindset nor mentality. I do not believe in romantic love because that is a myth to me.So, you can not put Western relationship values on someone who was not raised that way and think they are fairy tales to her. By the way, I only pretend to care for my clients in this industry because they come from the Western world mainly. It is apart of my acting abilities and to make myself seem more "passionate" to them. However, my culture holds extreme nihilistic views on most things.:cat:

Africans are r-selected societies. It means they have a high fertility rate but low parental investment. This produces a numerous offspring but few of them reach adulthood. Western society is K-selected: high investment in few offspring. So I understand that in your culture sex has no value and no meaning because offspring is numerous and therefore unimportant.

I do want to explain that I wasn't talking about romantic love, which is a 20th Century concept. I was talking about actual love which is built working shoulder to shoulder for years with the person you committed to, raising your children together and tackling problems that come your way aka marriage.

The divergent way our societies evolved has to do with material realities. On cold climates and harsh conditions like the ones in Europe people had to develop high commitment and cooperation to survive. Most children would die unless a parent was highly invested in taking care of them, and people had to learn to plan for the winter. In warmer climates such as Africa there wasn't a need to do this, survival didn't depend on parental care, and every person was guaranteed to have at least one offspring that would survive even without taking care of them. One situation leads to the development of marriage, the other one does not. It isn't a coincidence that Africans still live in tribes with little advancement and societies where marriage is prevalent did develop into civilizations. If you live in the western world and not in Africa, perhaps it would be a good exercise to try to understand the West's core values instead of dismissing them.

The crux of the r/K selected theory is that once a society has propelled itself forward and reaches a point of total prosperity, then the same conditions that forced the creation of marriage cease to exist. There is no need for cooperation or parental investment since everyone is wealthy. So the K selected theory that got your society there is now seen as ridiculous and obsolete. People revert to an r selected strategy in prosperity and it ends up destroying the very wealth that created it.
 
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I understand this is foreign concept for you but I am preserving my culture and its values..As far as you claiming that blacks have low parental investment; that is more anti-black propaganda and that is too low-class for me to response to. I bet if a white Christian told you that your culture had low parental investment than you would be crying anti-semitism. . Also as far as Eurocentric core values, do you believe that you are the best representative to address those those values? I am sure people like David Duke and Tom Metzger would love to hear your thoughts on European family values being a Jewish cam model and all.Perhaps it would be a good exercise not to take colonialist attitudes with others' cultures. :cigar:



I want to address things a couple of people said about my opinion, because my views don't get any air time in the media and people aren't used to hearing them so hopefully you will find things you haven't been exposed to. Everything I will say on this post is my personal opinion, some of it is based on scientific findings, the rest on common sense. I am not looking for provocation, but I have my own writing style so don't take anything personally.



It isn't a coincidence that every civilization was founded on marriage. Because civilization is marriage. Marriage is born out of material necessity and poor conditions such as a cold climate, and becomes a genetic reality after a couple of thousand years of natural selection (I will explain this below). But it is the optimal organization for advancement: children rearing, building structures, law creation, and peace.

Women and men are different, they have different sexualities. While men look for variety and are happy sexing up women above and below their "league", women are not, which is why women are the ones to choose. Without marriage women are free to pursue their hypergamy instinct to the fullest which means they seek the best man they can find. This ends up in a scenario in which most women seek out the best men, the best men accept a wide range of women who are their equals and below them so they pool around them and the best men get to live a life of low commitment. Average and below average men without special skills are ignored.
View attachment 65932

Marriage puts a limit on both women's hypergamy and men's quest for variety so it forces both to settle for one partner. Women will still look to settle with the best men they can (this explains the popularity of Jane Austen's novels) but they have to eventually choose someone who pursues them for marriage. The top quality men that would have sexed them up in Hypergamyville won't look at them for marriage. If a top quality man must settle in marriage he will also look for the best woman he can get, "harems" are for low commitment environments.

So marriage is an insurance that every person in society will have a life partner and offspring. It is a insurance that every child will have two parents who will be highly invested in their rearing. My generation lives in a perpetual hookup culture. Since women can work and provide for themselves they have no need to settle for a man who will provide for them. Average men who used to be providers are now redundant. In this context women have sex with as many men they can until one morning they hit the wall at say, 42, and realize that their time is up, if they want a child they will have to settle. So they settle... but by then since they are old, the only man who will want to marry them is one of the incels we discussed above. She then has her one autistic child, and then divorces the husband she didn't really want in the first place. So on top of having health issues from being conceived at an old age, her child also grows up without a father.

Monogamous marriage is better than the scenario above. Women do crave a committed man naturally and they ride the cock carousel in the hopes that one of the men they have hookups with will finally commit to them, but they rarely do because there is no incentive to do it. Hypergamyville is created by women but it makes women unhappy. In a marriage scenario the best men are also forced to settle.

Marriage creates the traditional family and the concept of private property. In a society that never developed marriage people live in tribes where everything is communally shared and there is no concept of private property so there is little incentive to create anything new. Family, on the other hand, allows for couples to work and the product of their work becomes an inheritance that their offspring will receive. This organization then, creates the perfect incentive to work, to build, and to amass wealth which propels society forward. Laws are then created to organize private property. With marriage there is civilization, without marriage there are tribes in the jungle. We all love iPhones and Netflix so I would say that marriage is definitely not an obsolete concept and it is better than the alternative.

Every civilization reaches a point of prosperity in which they take their wealth for granted, dismiss everything that made them successful, and start to dismantle their foundations. In our society this is what feminism is. If you take every single thing that will sabotage marriage and family and make a doctrine out of it you end up with feminism. But it has had other names and other faces in the past. Rome also reached a pinnacle in which people stopped getting married, they had their own sexual liberation, and it was the cause of their decline. It has a lot to do with what I will explain below as a response to @DonaDiabla's post

But before I do that, a quick note about the overpopulation meme: what does overpopulation even mean? Humans are not bacteria in a petri dish. We have always exploited resources artificially and went beyond what nature could do to sustain us. That is what agriculture and husbandry are. We will continue to figure out ways to provide for ourselves without depending on Pachamama.



Africans are r-selected societies. It means they have a high fertility rate but low parental investment. This produces a numerous offspring but few of them reach adulthood. Western society is K-selected: high investment in few offspring. So I understand that in your culture sex has no value and no meaning because offspring is numerous and therefore unimportant.

I do want to explain that I wasn't talking about romantic love, which is a 20th Century concept. I was talking about actual love which is built working shoulder to shoulder for years with the person you committed to, raising your children together and tackling problems that come your way aka marriage.

The divergent way our societies evolved has to do with material realities. On cold climates and harsh conditions like the ones in Europe people had to develop high commitment and cooperation to survive. Most children would die unless a parent was highly invested in taking care of them, and people had to learn to plan for the winter. In warmer climates such as Africa there wasn't a need to do this, survival didn't depend on parental care, and every person was guaranteed to have at least one offspring that would survive even without taking care of them. One situation leads to the development of marriage, the other one does not. It isn't a coincidence that Africans still live in tribes with little advancement and societies where marriage is prevalent did develop into civilizations. If you live in the western world and not in Africa, perhaps it would be a good exercise to try to understand the West's core values instead of dismissing them.

The crux of the r/K selected theory is that once a society has propelled itself forward and reaches a point of total prosperity, then the same conditions that forced the creation of marriage cease to exist. There is no need for cooperation or parental investment since everyone is wealthy. So the K selected theory that got your society there is now seen as ridiculous and obsolete. People revert to an r selected strategy in prosperity and it ends up destroying the very wealth that created it.
 
By the way, Kitsune, my culture is one of many black cultures in the world. Not all of them are same and many black societies believe in marriage including mine. Many blacks societies function differently than those who were apart of Kongo. You have to understand there is no more medieval Kongo culture because it is dead expect for my family and small pockets around the world. My family had the "luxury" of keeping it because of slavery and being isolated in the Caribbean/Latin-America. The whites in those places just did not invested in my family as slaves after the 17th century. So, we retained our culture.So, you can leave your colonialist beliefs about black African cultures in the 19th century where they belong.I was giving my opinion and experience in this thread but you want to turn this into some sort of anti-black family stance. By the way, I was not trolling but maybe you was when you wanted to take into anti-black stance?:cat:


I want to address things a couple of people said about my opinion, because my views don't get any air time in the media and people aren't used to hearing them so hopefully you will find things you haven't been exposed to. Everything I will say on this post is my personal opinion, some of it is based on scientific findings, the rest on common sense. I am not looking for provocation, but I have my own writing style so don't take anything personally.



It isn't a coincidence that every civilization was founded on marriage. Because civilization is marriage. Marriage is born out of material necessity and poor conditions such as a cold climate, and becomes a genetic reality after a couple of thousand years of natural selection (I will explain this below). But it is the optimal organization for advancement: children rearing, building structures, law creation, and peace.

Women and men are different, they have different sexualities. While men look for variety and are happy sexing up women above and below their "league", women are not, which is why women are the ones to choose. Without marriage women are free to pursue their hypergamy instinct to the fullest which means they seek the best man they can find. This ends up in a scenario in which most women seek out the best men, the best men accept a wide range of women who are their equals and below them so they pool around them and the best men get to live a life of low commitment. Average and below average men without special skills are ignored.
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Marriage puts a limit on both women's hypergamy and men's quest for variety so it forces both to settle for one partner. Women will still look to settle with the best men they can (this explains the popularity of Jane Austen's novels) but they have to eventually choose someone who pursues them for marriage. The top quality men that would have sexed them up in Hypergamyville won't look at them for marriage. If a top quality man must settle in marriage he will also look for the best woman he can get, "harems" are for low commitment environments.

So marriage is an insurance that every person in society will have a life partner and offspring. It is a insurance that every child will have two parents who will be highly invested in their rearing. My generation lives in a perpetual hookup culture. Since women can work and provide for themselves they have no need to settle for a man who will provide for them. Average men who used to be providers are now redundant. In this context women have sex with as many men they can until one morning they hit the wall at say, 42, and realize that their time is up, if they want a child they will have to settle. So they settle... but by then since they are old, the only man who will want to marry them is one of the incels we discussed above. She then has her one autistic child, and then divorces the husband she didn't really want in the first place. So on top of having health issues from being conceived at an old age, her child also grows up without a father.

Monogamous marriage is better than the scenario above. Women do crave a committed man naturally and they ride the cock carousel in the hopes that one of the men they have hookups with will finally commit to them, but they rarely do because there is no incentive to do it. Hypergamyville is created by women but it makes women unhappy. In a marriage scenario the best men are also forced to settle.

Marriage creates the traditional family and the concept of private property. In a society that never developed marriage people live in tribes where everything is communally shared and there is no concept of private property so there is little incentive to create anything new. Family, on the other hand, allows for couples to work and the product of their work becomes an inheritance that their offspring will receive. This organization then, creates the perfect incentive to work, to build, and to amass wealth which propels society forward. Laws are then created to organize private property. With marriage there is civilization, without marriage there are tribes in the jungle. We all love iPhones and Netflix so I would say that marriage is definitely not an obsolete concept and it is better than the alternative.

Every civilization reaches a point of prosperity in which they take their wealth for granted, dismiss everything that made them successful, and start to dismantle their foundations. In our society this is what feminism is. If you take every single thing that will sabotage marriage and family and make a doctrine out of it you end up with feminism. But it has had other names and other faces in the past. Rome also reached a pinnacle in which people stopped getting married, they had their own sexual liberation, and it was the cause of their decline. It has a lot to do with what I will explain below as a response to @DonaDiabla's post

But before I do that, a quick note about the overpopulation meme: what does overpopulation even mean? Humans are not bacteria in a petri dish. We have always exploited resources artificially and went beyond what nature could do to sustain us. That is what agriculture and husbandry are. We will continue to figure out ways to provide for ourselves without depending on Pachamama.



Africans are r-selected societies. It means they have a high fertility rate but low parental investment. This produces a numerous offspring but few of them reach adulthood. Western society is K-selected: high investment in few offspring. So I understand that in your culture sex has no value and no meaning because offspring is numerous and therefore unimportant.

I do want to explain that I wasn't talking about romantic love, which is a 20th Century concept. I was talking about actual love which is built working shoulder to shoulder for years with the person you committed to, raising your children together and tackling problems that come your way aka marriage.

The divergent way our societies evolved has to do with material realities. On cold climates and harsh conditions like the ones in Europe people had to develop high commitment and cooperation to survive. Most children would die unless a parent was highly invested in taking care of them, and people had to learn to plan for the winter. In warmer climates such as Africa there wasn't a need to do this, survival didn't depend on parental care, and every person was guaranteed to have at least one offspring that would survive even without taking care of them. One situation leads to the development of marriage, the other one does not. It isn't a coincidence that Africans still live in tribes with little advancement and societies where marriage is prevalent did develop into civilizations. If you live in the western world and not in Africa, perhaps it would be a good exercise to try to understand the West's core values instead of dismissing them.

The crux of the r/K selected theory is that once a society has propelled itself forward and reaches a point of total prosperity, then the same conditions that forced the creation of marriage cease to exist. There is no need for cooperation or parental investment since everyone is wealthy. So the K selected theory that got your society there is now seen as ridiculous and obsolete. People revert to an r selected strategy in prosperity and it ends up destroying the very wealth that created it.
 
IBeing a psych student who's interested in sexuality, I read a lot of studies about the effects of porn and they paint a fairly grim picture. i will look up the prison study that Serenity mentioned but if anyone has more positive links I would love to see more.

I honestly feel these conversations get stunted at times because we're so used to defending our jobs to outsiders, where we almost have to rely on generalizations and absolutes to defend it. But I think it's okay to consider potential negatives, without that necessarily meaning we're disparaging ourselves or our customers. I am a tiny fish in a giant porn pond, so I don't lose sleep over contributing to an industry that I think can *potentially* have negative effects. (Obviously, everyone has different perspectives, haha, I just mean it often seems each side of the argument falls into "it's 100% good" or "100% bad" and I think there can be truth in the middle.)

I loved Gen's post (not for the first time.) Often on the forum, there is a rally around the porn industry, that seems at odds with reality. I think it has exactly the stunting effect she talks about.

I've replaced "men" with "bosses," "women" with "men," and the "porn industry" with the "construction industry." Re-read your paragraph with these tiny changes and see how universal the use of one's body to make a living really becomes.

When it comes to the construction industry, one of the questions that bothers me most, if I am being perfectly honest, is how a man could ever willingly present himself as a mere object for the productivity of employers, even in exchange for money and companionship/attention, without it being a real and unfortunate sacrifice on his part. I've seen the way bosses tend to treat men in this industry. It's frequently not pleasant. It's one thing to be okay with and express your physical strength, and to share good times which include said strength within the confines of a carefully defined workplace. I can get behind that. But subjecting yourself to, and reinforcing the behavior of, bosses who simply view men as objects for their personal gain . . . to me this seems one of the more unfortunate and inescapable realities of the construction industry. Both that the bosses are so deprived of their own humanity that they willingly deprive men of theirs, and that the men have come to such circumstances that they allow themselves to be part of it all. Heck, even if you're doing everything you can to present yourself as a human being rather than an object, is that something you can do and earn a living with? (Real question.) Or does earning necessitate willingly subjecting yourself to objectification? Is objectification always bad?

I don't mean to pick on Mikachu too much, but this is an example of what I'm talking about and I think this analogy is more wrong that right.

Construction and camming/sex work aren't the same. They are both work, and as I said many times, "work" is a four-letter word. (Not all the time but pretty often for many people) But I don't need mansplain to the models on this forum, the difference between the conversation you'd have with family, friends, and future employers if you were employed in the construction industry, then in the porn industry.

Now, I many of you are thinking, well that's all because of the ridiculous stigmas society places on sex and sex work, it is the fault of religion, there is no reason sex work should be treated any differently than anything else. Now while they may be true, it certainly isn't today.

Paying somebody to build you a fence, or clean your house, or have sex with you, are all service jobs. But for most people, most of the time, sex is different, it is not just a physical act but an emotional one.
I contend the differences are biological in nature and hard-wired into our DNA.

I think sex work will always be different. I think even 50 years in the future, after laws have been passed to prevent discrimination of sex workers, and Aspen Rae has finished her 2nd term as President of the United State it will still be different.

A daughter who tells dad, hey I just got promoted to foreman of the construction crew, will not only receive congratulations from Dad, but he'll share the news with his friends and probably even post the news on BodyBook (TM). However, if his daughter tells him, "Dad I just go nominated for best gangbang scene at AVN, he may tell her congratulations. But, I bet very few dads will rush out and tell their friends much less post a link to her nominated performance on BodyBook. Because that is not how dads are biologically programmed to think about their daughters.
 
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I understand this is foreign concept for you but I am preserving my culture and its values..As far as you claiming that blacks have low parental investment; that is more anti-black propaganda and that is too low-class for me to response to. I bet if a white Christian told you that your culture had low parental investment than you would be crying anti-semitism. . Also as far as Eurocentric core values, do you believe that you are the best representative to address those those values? I am sure people like David Duke and Tom Metzger would love to hear your thoughts on European family values being a Jewish cam model and all.Perhaps it would be a good exercise not to take colonialist attitudes with others' cultures. :cigar:

Except Africa does have a low parental investment, that is a fact. The black community in the US, while more invested than their african counterparts, also has less parental investment than white communities. I don't understand how you can defend your culture's values: "sex is unimportant" and at the same time deny the natural consequences of those views.

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If a Christian told me that jews had low parental investment I would ask for evidence of it. Anti-semitism is an empty buzzword.

As of being a cam model and jewish, you don't seem to know what being jewish means. I am not religious, I am ethnically jewish. My views on pornography, marriage, and sex come from a secular place. The fact that I do something that is morally questionable doesn't mean I have to blind myself to reality. I am an adult and I can accept that some of what I do has bad consequences. If I lived in a healthy society I probably wouldn't engage in sex work.

Edit: since you asked I gave you a troll rating for lowering this discussion to personal attacks:
Donadiabla" said:
I am sure people like David Duke and Tom Metzger would love to hear your thoughts on European family values being a Jewish cam model and all.Perhaps it would be a good exercise not to take colonialist attitudes with others' cultures."
 
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Rome also reached a pinnacle in which people stopped getting married, they had their own sexual liberation, and it was the cause of their decline.
Got a graph to back this up? Or at least a selfie of you pulling it out of your ass?
 
I appreciate the balance provided by posters such as Kitsune and GenXoxo. Just because you are a member of a particular group and can see good in it does not exempt that group from criticism, nor should you cast a blind eye to its faults. By all means, defend against false accusations, but do so with reasons and evidence and don't make a villain of everyone with an opposing viewpoint. If ever there was an example to learn from, learn from all those political and religious discussions in which opposing sides jump at one another's throats with no intention whatsoever of engaging in critical reflection of the views on hand. Here we see humanity literally tearing itself apart over what? An inability to ever have one's views challenged?

You don't have to be especially religious to realize that hate begets hate. Thankfully, there are better approaches.

Further discussion from me of the views at hand is forthcoming. I appreciate the issues presently being discussed. Much to consider.

Edit: For the record, I am not attempting to single anyone out with this post. I am speaking in general terms here.
 
I was just attacking your position on your argument. Not you but I see why you think that. Just like you accuse me of not knowing what being Jewish is. You do NOT KNOW what you are talking about when it comes to my culture. I defend my culture because I see no fault with it. I love it and it has always been a comforted in my life. Sex is not important to me and I am sorry if that offends you and your belief system. By the way, I do do not deny nothing because what you are presenting is not true. I gave you a troll rating because you wanted to attack my culture just because you are offend by me saying sex is meaningless. Sex holds no meaning to me at all and most people just accept it without making into some sort of debate. My clients, my family, my friends, and even my lovers did not attack this personal/cultural belief. But you keep attacking it because I offend you with my statements in this thread.

Except Africa does have a low parental investment, that is a fact. The black community in the US, while more invested than their african counterparts, also has less parental investment than white communities. I don't understand how you can defend your culture's values: "sex is unimportant" and at the same time deny the natural consequences of those views.

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If a Christian told me that jews had low parental investment I would ask for evidence of it. Anti-semitism is an empty buzzword.

As of being a cam model and jewish, you don't seem to know what being jewish means. I am not religious, I am ethnically jewish. My views on pornography, marriage, and sex come from a secular place. The fact that I do something that is morally questionable doesn't mean I have to blind myself to reality. I am an adult and I can accept that some of what I do has bad consequences. If I lived in a healthy society I probably wouldn't engage in sex work.

Edit: since you asked I gave you a troll rating for lowering this discussion to personal attacks:
 
I was just attacking your position on your argument. Not you but I see why you think that. Just like you accuse me of not knowing what being Jewish is. You do NOT KNOW what you are talking about when it comes to my culture. I defend my culture because I see no fault with it. I love it and it has always been a comforted in my life. Sex is not important to me and I am sorry if that offends you and your belief system. By the way, I do do not deny nothing because what you are presenting is not true. I gave you a troll rating because you wanted to attack my culture just because you are offend by me saying sex is meaningless. Sex holds no meaning to me at all and most people just accept it without making into some sort of debate. My clients, my family, my friends, and even my lovers did not attack this personal/cultural belief. But you keep attacking it because I offend you with my statements in this thread.

I am not attacking you, or your culture because I don't even know what your culture is. I am debating your idea that sex is meaningless and therefore OP is wrong to wonder if his porn addiction is bad for him. The fact that I am debating this on a thread created for that purpose doesn't mean I am offended by your views or that I want to change your mind.

But since you brought up african cultures and how sex is meaningless in them, not just yours, and I agree with you on that front, I also wanted to explain the ramifications of that belief. It was not meant to be an attack on you personally or your culture. It was simply an explanation of where the idea that sex has no meaning comes from and where it leads.

But I do have to ask: if you think my posts were an attack then you must believe that parental investment is a good thing. So by saying African culture lacks it, I am somehow insulting you. But if you believe parental investment is a good thing, then why hold the view that sex is meaningless? If you truly thought sex was meaningless you would also believe parental investment is irrelevant.
 
Okay, Kitsune, I will debate this sex and parental link that you are talking about. Sex and parenthood are different. Sure, you need sex to become a parent. But I was arguing that sex is not important in the terms of the Op's misguided posts. He has some sort of deep s issue and I was telling him that sex just is not that important.I was just giving him examples of my life and cultural experiences. Now, you decided to use my post in your post. Obviously, I attacked your position in the argument.I was not attacking you but I asked a what if question in response to your post that feature the graphs. Now we understand each other :cat:

Edit: For the record, I am not attempting to single anyone out with this post. I am speaking in general terms here.[/QUOTE]
I am not attacking you, or your culture because I don't even know what your culture is. I am debating your idea that sex is meaningless and therefore OP is wrong to wonder if his porn addiction is bad for him. The fact that I am debating this on a thread created for that purpose doesn't mean I am offended by your views or that I want to change your mind.

But since you brought up african cultures and how sex is meaningless in them, not just yours, and I agree with you on that front, I also wanted to explain the ramifications of that belief. It was not meant to be an attack on you personally or your culture.

But I do have to ask: if you think my posts were an attack then you must believe that parental investment is a good thing. So by saying African culture lacks it, I am somehow insulting you. But if you believe parental investment is a good thing, then why hold the view that sex is meaningless? If you truly thought sex was meaningless you would also believe parental investment is irrelevant.
 
Sex and parental investment are not the same thing and I am so confused now.

You don't have to have sex to have a child.

You can not enjoy sex but still do it to have a child.

Just very confused.

We now have effective birth control and penicillin, but beliefs and attitudes toward sex have an impact on your life decisions. Promiscuous people tend to have more children out of wedlock. People who believe sex is meaningful and should only be shared with your life partner have better chances of forming a two parent household.

Edit to add a graph or two because I like data :)

UShape.jpggraph.png5O1XBFI.png
 
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I don't see myself as an impressive specimen of a human male, but I get the blue balls pretty bad, so porn.

I do have a problem with finding porn that works for both my lizard brain and the more cognitive parts my brain. I can't masturbate to something if I think the people in it would be upset if they knew that I had. That includes anything with a retired performer, and anything I think the performer actually disliked making. That rules out quite a bit of mainstream pornography, so I am really glad I found webcam models. I know that some of them do not enjoy what they are doing, and are forced by their economic circumstances, but the models I visit seem to enjoy what they do as much as most people enjoy their work, and I am not worried about exploiting their poverty, since I am pretty sure most of them make more money than I do.

If I could give up my libido at no cost, I would seriously consider it; if I end up in a relationship with a sexual component that isn't based on money, there is a good chance I would put my porn away. As it is, I think I have an ethical relationship with the porn industry, and I don't see any reason to discontinue it.

I hope that helps with your voyage of self-discovery.
 
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Just gonna pipe in with some simple responses:

I always liked and hung out with the girls in school. Though raised Catholic, my parents never shamed sex in general. Just emphasized to hold off on it for safety (STDs and can lead to children when unprepaired). My earliest "awakenings" came from sexualized comic book heroines and risque movie scenes. I naturally escalated into going into porn.

Oddly enough, through most of middle and high school, I got most of my erotic from sex stories on forums and the like. I liked the stories to go along with the action, and to be frank, even when viewing basic porn, I come up with a scenario in my head. I was drawn to the romantic and the taboo at the time (teachers, older women primarily), and from there I have explored concepts that interest me in a carnal sense.

As I got older I have struggled with the concept of porn objectifying women. I consider myself to this day a feminist of a sort (I don't believe women have achieved total equality, basically), so I questioned whether or not I should support or consume things that hold women back, as far as I could tell. I think this is why I stuck so much with erotic literature. I could justify "it's just fantasy" more without a woman "forced" to act out said fantasy (even though objectification is objectification regardless of the format).

Oddly enough, I came to peace with it through the discover of C4S. The clips site showed me the existence of women creating what they want, choosing their commissions, and selling it. Because THEY chose to make it. I found consumption of the porn all the more enjoyable and have not looked back. At this point, the porn industry to me is a complicated place that serves a need in society. It isn't perfect, has its issues, but not more so than a lot of large industries in the world. There are some dark things, but overall, it's people providing a fun, consensual service, and the core concept doesn't bother me.

Porn is not for everyone, be it as performer or consumer. But for me, it is a way to channel my urges that have, entertain myself in a natural way at times, and currently, being able to do it by purchasing and experiencing it primarily through women more than happy to help and provide. :)
 
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