Pimpin' for Ron Paul

[Nordling]

I want my president to tell every state that abortion is legal and that gay marriage must be legally recognized. I don't want to depend on the states to get it right. I suppose that means I'm far from libertarian, aye?

Be careful what you wish for. If you want the federal government involved in that much of your life, do not even begin to think it will stop there. Constitutionally speaking, only those issues specifically granted to the feds are the feds, all others belong to the states. But that has never stopped them before.

But that's not Amber is saying. She's saying that NO ONE should have the right to tell a woman what to do with her own body and certainly not a bunch of fat old, gray haired men, whether they represent a state or the Federal government. This is not about intrusion, it's about the rest of that statement in the constitution "...or the people." Last I looked a woman was "a people." The individual trumps the state. A right to privacy and a right to do what you damn please with your own body.

 

[prisma146]

love this!!!! :hello2:

 

[Bocefish]

I want my president to tell every state that abortion is legal and that gay marriage must be legally recognized. I don't want to depend on the states to get it right. I suppose that means I'm far from libertarian, aye?

Be careful what you wish for. If you want the federal government involved in that much of your life, do not even begin to think it will stop there. Constitutionally speaking, only those issues specifically granted to the feds are the feds, all others belong to the states. But that has never stopped them before.

Exactly! That's what tyrants do, they tell the people what they can and can't do.

Interesting article:

Let’s take a quick look at our Constitution and our Courts – back before the Seventeenth Amendment to the Constitution knocked the knees out from under States Rights – back before the Eleventh Amendment began to chip away at our very foundation -- and back before that, to slavery itself.

Let’s talk about Article I of The Constitution which clearly decrees that: “All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and a House of Representatives.”

The Constitution says all legislative powers are vested in Congress; but today we tolerate our activist judges who legislate from the bench. Tyrannical politicians have long ago figured out that the unpopular laws they cannot pass through an accountable legislature can be adjudicated into law by an unaccountable judiciary. Hence, the tyrants push to declare our Constitution outdated, or to say it needs to be interpreted as a living, changing document. That’s saying it can mean anything tyrants want it to mean.

In a speech in 1907, former Supreme Court Chief Justice Charles Evans Hughes said: “The Constitution is whatever the judges say it is.” That was and remains a pretty audacious statement especially coming from a Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. It is generally accepted that Marbury v Madison, 1803, established the precedent for the Supreme Court’s right of judicial review of the other two branches of government. Now remember, judicial review existed only on a federal level. It never was intended to apply to the states. And Marbury v Madison was totally unnecessary because the Constitution was crafted in the first place to establish each of the three branches of the federal government as coequal -- each as a check or review of the other two.

But between Marbury v Madison and the pronouncement of Chief Justice Charles Evans Hughes, lies the Thirteenth, Fourteenth, and Fifteenth Amendments, the passage of which was a direct assault by the federal government on the rights of the states.

Of course, slavery and its evils remain a shameful blemish on our glorious history. But even after the South lost its War of Secession, it took the Thirteenth, Fourteenth, and Fifteenth Amendments to guarantee freedom, citizenship, and voting rights to the former slaves.

Because cruel and immoral men still held sway in both the North and the South, the expedient remedy was for the federal government to go beyond the enumerated powers granted in the Constitution. At the end of the Thirteenth, Fourteenth, and Fifteenth Amendments you see the words: “Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.” Those words set the constitutional groundwork for whatever legislation Congress was to impose on the states.

It was a classic case of the sons paying for the sins of the father – sins against a just and merciful Judeo-Christian God. And so you may rightly argue that the three Amendments were necessary, even necessary evils – evils because they ushered in a federal tyranny.

I would argue the remedy belonged on the state level. Yes, back then perhaps the Southern states were incapable of such a remedy, but, too, they were never permitted to make the attempt on their own. But with the ratification of those Amendments, all Americans lost a crucial component of their individual freedom because all the states lost a significant chunk of their sovereignty. Those three amendments heralded a new federal usurpation of power and control — a dangerous, tyrannical, and heretofore unprecedented federal control over the states.

And that’s what we have today. No longer is the Constitution a contract – a compact -- to assure the sovereignty of the states and to keep the federal government in check. No longer is the Supreme Court primarily an instrument to keep Congress and the Executive in check.

The Thirteenth, Fourteenth, and Fifteenth Amendments have given the Supreme Court a broad new latitude. And mostly now, it has abandoned its separate and coequal role in the judicial review of the other two branches of the federal government. Exceeding its original powers, the Supreme Court is now a powerful political component that has aligned itself with Congress and the Executive to rule on the constitutionality of state laws and state practices and procedures, to exercise its judicial review of the individual states and the freedoms of the individual person.

And the collective federal government is now the oppressive, authoritarian overseer in our lives — a vicious and arbitrary bully with heavy-handed powers — ever encroaching, ever growing until we have ceased being citizens and are now mere subjects.

http://garyspina.com/americantyranny.html

 

[Nordling]

Telling the states that they do NOT have a right to take away the "sovereignty" a woman or a man have over their own body is NOT tyranny. States, just like corporations are NOT "people," irrespective of what the fascist Roberts court decided in Citizens United.

When a state is repressive to its citizens, it is neither bullying nor "tyranny" for the Federal Government to tell that state to knock if off. In that case, the Fed is PROTECTING its citizens from a repressive oligarchy at the state level. If you think that we'd be better off if Jim Crow were still in force--in the name of "constitutional literalism," you're nuts.

 

[schlmoe]

I want my president to tell every state that abortion is legal and that gay marriage must be legally recognized. I don't want to depend on the states to get it right. I suppose that means I'm far from libertarian, aye?

Be careful what you wish for. If you want the federal government involved in that much of your life, do not even begin to think it will stop there. Constitutionally speaking, only those issues specifically granted to the feds are the feds, all others belong to the states. But that has never stopped them before.

But that's not Amber is saying. She's saying that NO ONE should have the right to tell a woman what to do with her own body and certainly not a bunch of fat old, gray haired men, whether they represent a state or the Federal government. This is not about intrusion, it's about the rest of that statement in the constitution "...or the people." Last I looked a woman was "a people." The individual trumps the state. A right to privacy and a right to do what you damn please with your own body.

But that's not Amber is saying. She's saying blah, blah, blah...

Nordling, I believe in free speech and all, but you should consider letting the OP give her own explanation on what she is saying.

IMHO, for someone else to present their interpretation and present it as fact is somewhat intrusive and tyrannical.

 

[Poker_Babe]

IMHO, for someone else to present their interpretation and present it as fact is somewhat intrusive and tyrannical.

intrusive maybe, but isn't tyrannical being just a bit harsh?

 

[schlmoe]

Telling the states that they do NOT have a right to take away the "sovereignty" a woman or a man have over their own body is NOT tyranny. States, just like corporations are NOT "people," irrespective of what the fascist Roberts court decided in Citizens United.

When a state is repressive to its citizens, it is neither bullying nor "tyranny" for the Federal Government to tell that state to knock if off. In that case, the Fed is PROTECTING its citizens from a repressive oligarchy at the state level. If you think that we'd be better off if Jim Crow were still in force--in the name of "constitutional literalism," you're nuts.

Nordling, I really appreciate hearing other points of view. I also appreciate the passion that you, Poker Babe, Boce and others have brought to this discussion. IMO, in this day and age, it is very important to have a concerned citizenry getting engaged in the political process. And one interested enough to make an informed decision, or at least the best one they can make.

Again, "free speech" and all, but if your intent is to convert/persuade others to your line of thinking, you might want to consider less inflammatory words. When you use words and phrases like: "Nazi" (Godwin's law???), "evil bastard", "fat old, gray haired men", etc. there is going to be a number of folks who will tune you out, and your message will be lost. Of course, if your intent is solely to bash...well, carry on! :mrgreen:

Another thing, it is probably a good idea to back up your assumptions with facts, not more assumptions.

Where Boce's quote had to deal with the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments, your reply had in part said "If you think that we'd be better off if Jim Crow were still in force".

For the record, the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments were adopted between 1865 and 1870.
Jim Crow laws were enacted between 1876 and 1965 as a direct response to the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments (of course I could have missed your point there).

There were others, but you get my point. When an argument or debate is occurring, the chances of persuading others to come to your side is greatly enhanced when you use clear, concise language, and stick to facts. Who knows, you might even get me to agree with you.

If you just want to play "Point - Counter Point", well I can do that too... :mrgreen:

(here is an HQ link to the original SNL clip: http://www.hulu.com/watch/2306/saturday ... lle-triola)

PS, the Roberts Court is better described as "reactionary", rather than fascist.

 

[BustyJules]

I liked Cain but the obama administration weeded him out pretty quick then Gingrich was my next choice but my fiance said he was out of the race. Now I'm between Paul and Huntsman. When it comes down to it, I will vote for whoever ends up against obama. In my opinion he is the absolute worst president we have ever had and I hope everybody had enough time to wise up.

 

[schlmoe]

IMHO, for someone else to present their interpretation and present it as fact is somewhat intrusive and tyrannical.

intrusive maybe, but isn't tyrannical being just a bit harsh?

Harsh? Nah, for me to get harsh, I'd have to be very upset. And you've never seen me very upset.

 

[BustyJules]

Ron Paul: Hate Crimes Laws are Unconstitutional:
http://alexjonessucks.blogspot.com/2011/11/ron-paul-hate-crime-laws-are.html

Hate crimes in my opinion do more harm than good. At first it was a great idea and deterrent but now it is just bullshit to be perfectly blunt. It is racist and completely one sided.

Ron Paul Believes in that "War on Christmas" Crap
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul148.html

I don't know anything about this so I will not speak.

Rand AND Ron: Restaurants Should Not Have to Serve Black People
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/taylor-marsh/rand-paul-on-civil-rights_b_582674.html

Do you REALLY think privately owned businesses don't already have the right to refuse service? (Not just black people but anybody) They just have to word it carefully or take other measures but trust me sweetie it happens. I believe that if I own a restaurant/bar/whatever that it should be up to me who I decide to serve.

Ron Paul Wants to Abolish the UN
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul82.html

GOOD! What the hell is wrong with that?

Ron Thinks Everybody Should Print Their Own Currency! Got Monopoly Money, That's Legal Tender!
http://lewrockwell.com/paul/paul766.html

I don't care about this topic so I will not speak.

Ron Paul: A Libertarian -- well, except on immigration or abortion. Or, uh, gay marriage.
http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/abortion/

Immigration laws need to seriously be looked at and fixed.
Abortion should be up to the state and only used in extreme medical cases or rape, Not for birth control.
Gay marriage should be legal everywhere.

Ron Paul Opposed Renewal of the Voting Rights Act of 1965
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul#Voting_Rights_Act

First off I have to say that since you seem to hate George Bush JR. and other republicans, Do you not remember him signing the bill to renew the Voting Rights Act in 2006?

Now for my opinion on who should be allowed to vote, I think that you should have to take a literacy test (everybody not just certain people). I also agree with the not being able to vote if you have had a felony.

Ron Paul Calls Global Warming “The Greatest Hoax Ever”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/07/opinion/in-the-land-of-denial-on-climate-change.html

Glad someone has the balls to say it. It is a hoax.

Ron Would Eliminate these Government Departments: Education, HUD, Energy, Interior, Commerce
http://www.freedomradio.us/vof/elec...plan-to-eliminate-government-departments.html

Good things in my eyes.

Ron Paul: No Mandatory Vaccinations
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-freedman/ron-paul-no-to-mandatory-_b_82765.html

That is an issue why? If I don't want my child vaccinated, it is MY decision and just so you know, you can get away with it now. Just gotta know the ropes.

Death Penalty For Gays: Ron Paul Courts The Religious Fringe In Iowa
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/12/ron-paul-hired-anti-gay-activist-to-run-iowa-campaign.php

Those are not Ron Pauls beliefs. Like PB said, he is actually against the death penalty. From 2007 "Over the years I've held pretty rigid to all my beliefs, but I've changed my opinion of the death penalty. For federal purposes I no longer believe in the death penalty. I believe it has been issued unjustly. If you're rich, you get away with it; if you're poor and you're from the inner city you're more likely to be prosecuted and convicted, and today, with the DNA evidence, there've been too many mistakes, and I am now opposed to the federal death penalty."

 

[sxycherrypie]

BustyJules I agree on the post you made underneath the abortion link that it should be used if it is medically necessary or in rape not for birth control,because there are a tons of shit out there to prevent pregnancy.

However, I have to agree to disagree on a couple of things up have said about the vaccinations and about getting rid of education. Here are my reasons why I disagree love: If we did not vaccinate our children against the mumps, polio and those other nasty diseases we used to get (the main ones we get vaccinated for) we would be in deep shit. Our children would be getting sick left and right and disease would spread rather quickly. It could result in either intense suffering,being crippled for the rest of their) life(also adds to suffering) and/or death. The vaccinations help out ALOT for disease control and it keeps us healthy. Why do you think we live longer than we used to? Also why do you think there is less of a death rate of our children and adults? Healthy food and diet do help,but not by much if you get the whooping cough or something else nasty.

And about education he wants to get rid of it from what I have heard. Schools would be shut down all over and me I was us to have a very good education to become successful and to be somebody in the world.Not be an uneducated illiterate person.Without education that is what we would all be, and instead of evolving we would be reversing. True education has it's fuck ups and that needs to be fixed. I believe we should better our education not totally delete it out.

 

[BustyJules]

BustyJules I agree on the post you made underneath the abortion link that it should be used if it is medically necessary or in rape not for birth control,because there are a tons of shit out there to prevent pregnancy.

However, I have to agree to disagree on a couple of things up have said about the vaccinations and about getting rid of education. Here are my reasons why I disagree love: If we did not vaccinate our children against the mumps, polio and those other nasty diseases we used to get (the main ones we get vaccinated for) we would be in deep shit. Our children would be getting sick left and right and disease would spread rather quickly. It could result in either intense suffering,being crippled for the rest of their) life(also adds to suffering) and/or death. The vaccinations help out ALOT for disease control and it keeps us healthy. Why do you think we live longer than we used to? Also why do you think there is less of a death rate of our children and adults? Healthy food and diet do help,but not by much if you get the whooping cough or something else nasty.

And about education he wants to get rid of it from what I have heard. Schools would be shut down all over and me I was us to have a very good education to become successful and to be somebody in the world.Not be an uneducated illiterate person.Without education that is what we would all be, and instead of evolving we would be reversing. True education has it's fuck ups and that needs to be fixed. I believe we should better our education not totally delete it out.

I'm not saying to get rid of vaccinations BUT it is and should be a choice. I do agree that vaccines aren't all bad but there are risks and it is up to me if I decided the benefits outweigh the possible harm or vise versa.

And about education.

This is from a 2008 interview.
“First, the Constitution does not authorize the Department of Education, and the founders never envisioned the federal government dictating those education policies.

Second, it is a huge bureaucracy that squanders our money. We send billions of dollars to Washington and get back less than we sent. The money would be much better off left in states and local communities rather than being squandered in Washington.

Finally, I think that the smallest level of government possible best performs education. Teachers, parents, and local community leaders should be making decisions about exactly how our children should be taught, not Washington bureaucrats.

The Department of Education has given us No Child Left Behind, massive unfunded mandates, indoctrination, and in some cases, forced medication of our children with psychotropic drugs. We should get rid of all of that and get those choices back in the hands of the people.”

He is not saying "No more schools!", Just that the feds need to stay out of it. I'm a Bush supporter but even I will admit No Child Left Behind is a completely moronic ideal.

 

[JoleneBrody]

from what I have heard.

This is not a good reason to bring an argument to a debate. Until you have done your research and know what you are discussing your point doesn't contribute.

On the case of vaccinations I do have to agree with Ron. I was raised in a holistic household and still try to live this way. I am not crippled, dead and mutated. I rarely get sick for more than 24 hours and am naturally a healthy weight without exercise. I do not believe in vaccinations nor do I support a government that tells me I "have" to inject my body with anything. That sounds like "1984" to me.

I'm not a supporter of any one, just wanted to touch on these two subjects I feel strongly about.

 

[BustyJules]

The answer to 1984 is 1776. Good points Jolene

 

[sxycherrypie]

BustyJules I agree on the post you made underneath the abortion link that it should be used if it is medically necessary or in rape not for birth control,because there are a tons of shit out there to prevent pregnancy.

However, I have to agree to disagree on a couple of things up have said about the vaccinations and about getting rid of education. Here are my reasons why I disagree love: If we did not vaccinate our children against the mumps, polio and those other nasty diseases we used to get (the main ones we get vaccinated for) we would be in deep shit. Our children would be getting sick left and right and disease would spread rather quickly. It could result in either intense suffering,being crippled for the rest of their) life(also adds to suffering) and/or death. The vaccinations help out ALOT for disease control and it keeps us healthy. Why do you think we live longer than we used to? Also why do you think there is less of a death rate of our children and adults? Healthy food and diet do help,but not by much if you get the whooping cough or something else nasty.

And about education he wants to get rid of it from what I have heard. Schools would be shut down all over and me I was us to have a very good education to become successful and to be somebody in the world.Not be an uneducated illiterate person.Without education that is what we would all be, and instead of evolving we would be reversing. True education has it's fuck ups and that needs to be fixed. I believe we should better our education not totally delete it out.

I'm not saying to get rid of vaccinations BUT it is and should be a choice. I do agree that vaccines aren't all bad but there are risks and it is up to me if I decided the benefits outweigh the possible harm or vise versa.

And about education.

This is from a 2008 interview.
“First, the Constitution does not authorize the Department of Education, and the founders never envisioned the federal government dictating those education policies.

Second, it is a huge bureaucracy that squanders our money. We send billions of dollars to Washington and get back less than we sent. The money would be much better off left in states and local communities rather than being squandered in Washington.

Finally, I think that the smallest level of government possible best performs education. Teachers, parents, and local community leaders should be making decisions about exactly how our children should be taught, not Washington bureaucrats.

The Department of Education has given us No Child Left Behind, massive unfunded mandates, indoctrination, and in some cases, forced medication of our children with psychotropic drugs. We should get rid of all of that and get those choices back in the hands of the people.”

He is not saying "No more schools!", Just that the feds need to stay out of it. I'm a Bush supporter but even I will admit No Child Left Behind is a completely moronic ideal.

The only shots I do not give my child nor will I ever give to my child would be the swine flu,flu or bird flu shots. They have killed more people than it has helped,but with the main vaccines should be mandatory to help prevent disease.I do disagree that our children are to be medicated for disorders such as bipolar and that kind of thing unless it is absolutely necessary and proven that the child needs it. But I doubt that until their teens that children would have a disorder like those and it is sad to see them wrongly medicated for that. I do agree that parts of the educational system is fucked up like I said and needs to be fixed so we can better our child's education to get them ready for the outside world out there. The teachers job is to teach them math,science,things like that ,but as a parent it is our job to teach them what to look out for. How to know if someone is a good person or not and what friends are and do for each other things like that. Hope this made sense.

I am going to say I have never really liked George bush Jr for getting us into that war that was not needed. We got the guy yet we are still there and I ask myself why are we still there now? Now we are in a huge debt that the president we have now is trying to fix and I believe that. I have to admit though that Clinton was the best president we have ever had. He got us out of debt and everything was fine well until bush jr came in sorry to say.The worst thing Clinton did was get blowjobs from people other than his wife which yes cheating is wrong,but if he can fix this up and come back that would be awesome!
I got my in for mostly from watching the news such as fox news,and CNN by the way.

 

[Poker_Babe]

The answer to 1984 is 1776. Good points Jolene

That is one of my favorite quotes. It makes me happy to see other people say that. :mrgreen:

 

[Poker_Babe]

The only shots I do not give my child nor will I ever give to my child would be the swine flu,flu or bird flu shots. They have killed more people than it has helped,but with the main vaccines should be mandatory to help prevent disease.I do disagree that our children are to be medicated for disorders such as bipolar and that kind of thing unless it is absolutely necessary and proven that the child needs it. But I doubt that until their teens that children would have a disorder like those and it is sad to see them wrongly medicated for that.

The idea of mandatory vaccines is a dangerous idea in general. you never know what is going to be in those things. If one can be harmful, who's to say that it couldn't happen to all of them?
Did you ever hear about what Bayer did? They knowingly sold shots that contained the AIDS virus. it was in a drug that is known to be helpful, but it got contaminated. they knew this, and still sold it.

 

[sxycherrypie]

Alright all I am going to say that politics all together is corrupt. There maybe a few good people in politics and by god do we need tons more of honest good people there,but mostly like I said it is waaay screwed up.We all have different beliefs and some we do not agree with,but I say whatever happens happens we can still believe the way we do,vote for the people we like and hope they get elected. This arguing over beliefs is getting my blood boiling a little bit so I said what I had to say about what I knew about and I do not think I have anything further to say. :-D

 

[sxycherrypie]

The only shots I do not give my child nor will I ever give to my child would be the swine flu,flu or bird flu shots. They have killed more people than it has helped,but with the main vaccines should be mandatory to help prevent disease.I do disagree that our children are to be medicated for disorders such as bipolar and that kind of thing unless it is absolutely necessary and proven that the child needs it. But I doubt that until their teens that children would have a disorder like those and it is sad to see them wrongly medicated for that.

The idea of mandatory vaccines is a dangerous idea in general. you never know what is going to be in those things. If one can be harmful, who's to say that it couldn't happen to all of them?
Did you ever hear about what Bayer did? They knowingly sold shots that contained the AIDS virus. it was in a drug that is known to be helpful, but it got contaminated. they knew this, and still sold it.

Ok I have to admit that scares the crap out of me. I would not want myself or anyone and thier children to be injected by that stuff. I believe they need to make sure this is safe. We are supposed to trust them yet this? The world is fucked up. So far though my son,my husband and myself have been tested for sometime now and nothing has come up so we are all good =D. I however will not trust the new vaccines unless it is proven it will not do harm at all.I usually wait what happens to people that have gotten the vaccine before I get it for my family maybe I am being smart by doing that I dunno. All I know is that I can trust the old main vaccines we were all given as a child.

 

[AmberCutie]

I want my president to tell every state that abortion is legal and that gay marriage must be legally recognized. I don't want to depend on the states to get it right. I suppose that means I'm far from libertarian, aye?

Be careful what you wish for. If you want the federal government involved in that much of your life, do not even begin to think it will stop there. Constitutionally speaking, only those issues specifically granted to the feds are the feds, all others belong to the states. But that has never stopped them before.

But that's not Amber is saying. She's saying that NO ONE should have the right to tell a woman what to do with her own body and certainly not a bunch of fat old, gray haired men, whether they represent a state or the Federal government. This is not about intrusion, it's about the rest of that statement in the constitution "...or the people." Last I looked a woman was "a people." The individual trumps the state. A right to privacy and a right to do what you damn please with your own body.

But that's not Amber is saying. She's saying blah, blah, blah...

Nordling, I believe in free speech and all, but you should consider letting the OP give her own explanation on what she is saying.

IMHO, for someone else to present their interpretation and present it as fact is somewhat intrusive and tyrannical.

What I'm saying is that I want the Fed Govt to not even give the option to the States to rule something illegal. If the Fed says it's ok, the states have to let it be. I'm not saying I want the Fed to come in and put rules on us, I'm saying I want them to NOT allow the States to come in and put their own rules on us. So it's actually more freedom, in a sense.

But as I mentioned to someone yesterday, I think that's just a fantasy utopia.

But as for Ron Paul, just to play devil's advocate with those that say if he became president ALL of this would happen, I believe it would be the same thing that is going on with Obama- Congress would stonewall and say no to everything while putting on blame on President Paul that nothing is getting done and is all his fault and then the Media and opponents would say all the promises he made were lies it's really quite easy.

Things were a lot simpler in my youth when the worst thing that happened was a President getting a blowjob. How much money did the republicans spend on dragging that through the court process? Hooray fiscal conservatism.

^^ Yup. I think no matter who gets the spot they won't be able to fulfill any the promises they make during the campaign. That's how it is every term, though. We get all caught up in these big ideas of change, but the reality is so different.

 

[Poker_Babe]

Alright all I am going to say that politics all together is corrupt. There maybe a few good people in politics and by god do we need tons more of honest good people there,but mostly like I said it is waaay screwed up.We all have different beliefs and some we do not agree with,but I say whatever happens happens we can still believe the way we do,vote for the people we like and hope they get elected. This arguing over beliefs is getting my blood boiling a little bit so I said what I had to say about what I knew about and I do not think I have anything further to say. :-D

It seems to me that you have been looking at what everyone has had to say with an open mind, and not just completely dismissing any views that happen to be different from your own. I think we all should be careful not to get tunnel vision ya know?!

 

[BustyJules]

The only shots I do not give my child nor will I ever give to my child would be the swine flu,flu or bird flu shots. They have killed more people than it has helped,but with the main vaccines should be mandatory to help prevent disease.

But how would you feel if somebody forced you to make your child get the swine flu vaccine? It is a slippery slope. I know what is best for me and my own just like you and every other family. Don't let someone make our parenting choices for us unless we are putting our children in extreme danger.

I do disagree that our children are to be medicated for disorders such as bipolar and that kind of thing unless it is absolutely necessary and proven that the child needs it. But I doubt that until their teens that children would have a disorder like those and it is sad to see them wrongly medicated for that.

Agree with you there.

I do agree that parts of the educational system is fucked up like I said and needs to be fixed so we can better our child's education to get them ready for the outside world out there. The teachers job is to teach them math,science,things like that ,but as a parent it is our job to teach them what to look out for. How to know if someone is a good person or not and what friends are and do for each other things like that. Hope this made sense.

Yep and that is the problem.

I am going to say though I have never really liked George bush jr for getting us into that war that was not needed. We got the guy yet we are still there and I ask myself why are we still there now?

I respect your opinion. My opinion is that wars are needed. I appreciate presidents that have balls (big Regan supporter here). We are still in the war because Obama lied, Suprised?

Now we are in a huge debt that the president we have now is trying to fix and I believe that.

He isn't trying to fix shit IMO. He doesn't give a fuck about you and me.

I have to admit though that Clinton was the best president we have ever had. He got us out of debt and everything was fine well until bush jr came in sorry to say.

Bill Clinton (1993-2001): Took Bush’s $4.2 trillion up to $5.7 trillion. Change: +36%.
http://washingtonindependent.com/86213/ ... ional-debt

We only had a surplus because that was the time when personal computers got big.

And since you like Obama you should read this.
"As I’ve noted before, the debt during Bush’s eight years in office increased from $5.7 trillion to $10.6 trillion, or $4.9 trillion over eight years. That’s bad; that’s basically $610 billion per year. But in the less than three years Obama has been in office, the debt has increased from $10.6 trillion to $14.2 trillion, a $3.6 trillion increase in about 27 months. In other words, Obama is increasing the debt by $1.6 trillion per year, three times as fast as Bush."
http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign- ... rge-w-bush

The worst thing Clinton did was get blowjobs form people other than his wife which yes cheating is wrong,but if he can fix this up and come back that would be awesome!

Nope, Thats not it.

He lied under oath.
NAFTA
His views on our 2nd amendment rights

You don't like war?
Operation Desert Fox was authorized by Clinton.
Operation Allied Force was authorized by Clinton.

 

[sxycherrypie]

Alright all I am going to say that politics all together is corrupt. There maybe a few good people in politics and by god do we need tons more of honest good people there,but mostly like I said it is waaay screwed up.We all have different beliefs and some we do not agree with,but I say whatever happens happens we can still believe the way we do,vote for the people we like and hope they get elected. This arguing over beliefs is getting my blood boiling a little bit so I said what I had to say about what I knew about and I do not think I have anything further to say. :-D

It seems to me that you have been looking at what everyone has had to say with an open mind, and not just completely dismissing any views that happen to be different from your own. I think we all should be careful not to get tunnel vision ya know?!

I have been looking at other peoples views and tried my best to view with an open mind. I just hope people know that I was not trying to bash or anything just wanting to make my point ya know? Seriously though all politics is corrupted ,yes as you can tell I only respond to things that I know about which is not much. I am starting to watch the news more to follow up with what is going on no matter how much it makes me want to strangle some one. I am kinda tired of the ignorance is bliss,which yes sometimes it is ,but I am tired of being in bliss and I would love to learn more. I am glad we are answering each other respectfully in this thread cause I though oh no this is going to be horrible,every one is gonna be choking each other and boy am I glad for that. Alll I have to say is I hope you pick the right people to run this country and I know we are not perfect but there is a right and a wrong person for this country out there. I am not saying believe in what I say because I am right and you are wrong. Just choose carefully.

 

[BustyJules]

BTW just want to say that I'm not trying to pick on you cherry or anyone else. I love all things politics and debating so if I get carried away, I am sorry. And if I ever get offensive please let me know. I have my opinions just like every other person and the great thing about America is that we can express our opinions.

 

[sxycherrypie]

The only shots I do not give my child nor will I ever give to my child would be the swine flu,flu or bird flu shots. They have killed more people than it has helped,but with the main vaccines should be mandatory to help prevent disease.

But how would you feel if somebody forced you to make your child get the swine flu vaccine? It is a slippery slope. I know what is best for me and my own just like you and every other family. Don't let someone make our parenting choices for us unless we are putting our children in extreme danger.

I do disagree that our children are to be medicated for disorders such as bipolar and that kind of thing unless it is absolutely necessary and proven that the child needs it. But I doubt that until their teens that children would have a disorder like those and it is sad to see them wrongly medicated for that.

Agree with you there.

I do agree that parts of the educational system is fucked up like I said and needs to be fixed so we can better our child's education to get them ready for the outside world out there. The teachers job is to teach them math,science,things like that ,but as a parent it is our job to teach them what to look out for. How to know if someone is a good person or not and what friends are and do for each other things like that. Hope this made sense.

Yep and that is the problem.

I am going to say though I have never really liked George bush jr for getting us into that war that was not needed. We got the guy yet we are still there and I ask myself why are we still there now?

I respect your opinion. My opinion is that wars are needed. I appreciate presidents that have balls (big Regan supporter here). We are still in the war because Obama lied, Suprised?

Now we are in a huge debt that the president we have now is trying to fix and I believe that.

He isn't trying to fix shit IMO. He doesn't give a fuck about you and me.

I have to admit though that Clinton was the best president we have ever had. He got us out of debt and everything was fine well until bush jr came in sorry to say.

Bill Clinton (1993-2001): Took Bush’s $4.2 trillion up to $5.7 trillion. Change: +36%.
http://washingtonindependent.com/86213/ ... ional-debt

We only had a surplus because that was the time when personal computers got big.

And since you like Obama you should read this.
"As I’ve noted before, the debt during Bush’s eight years in office increased from $5.7 trillion to $10.6 trillion, or $4.9 trillion over eight years. That’s bad; that’s basically $610 billion per year. But in the less than three years Obama has been in office, the debt has increased from $10.6 trillion to $14.2 trillion, a $3.6 trillion increase in about 27 months. In other words, Obama is increasing the debt by $1.6 trillion per year, three times as fast as Bush."
http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign- ... rge-w-bush

The worst thing Clinton did was get blowjobs form people other than his wife which yes cheating is wrong,but if he can fix this up and come back that would be awesome!

Nope, Thats not it.

He lied under oath.
NAFTA
His views on our 2nd amendment rights

You don't like war?
Operation Desert Fox was authorized by Clinton.
Operation Allied Force was authorized by Clinton.

I am not anti war at all I believe if it is needed we should do it. I just never got why we were in Irag for so long though. Hearing about the war in Iraq made me wonder why are we there in the first place though. No i am not surprised a President even the one I voted for would lie about somethings but he has opened up more jobs since he has been in office. That is all I know of that he did. I do think that when he was trying to force people to have health care was total and utter bullshit though because most of us cannot afford it. He could at least try and make it more affordable for us to get it instead of forcing us to do so but thank god that bill did not go through my finances would be shot. Other than he also keeps on getting decline by republicans on what he wants to pass that is all I know.

I am trying to get more informed on this subject though because having a intelligent conversation like this makes a person feel good that they can talk about these things respectfully with other people instead of saying how dumb some one is for not believing in the same thing you do. I am glad though I am not a teacher,because well I did not test well nor do well in school. I did not learn the way I needed to so I did not absorb some of the stuff I needed to. I have alot of weak points academically (not saying I am retarded or anything) such as math (which i hated anyway most boring subject of all time) science (loved science but science did not love me) and sadly English is also a weak point of mine. While I can speak it well I cannot type it well as you can see,but I am trying to get better. I scored beyond an 8th grade level to get into the college here which I think at minimum you have to be at a 10th grade level that is what the dude told me.

God that test was hard as hell I barely remembered some of that stuff.Did I mention I have an not so good memory? Boy was I proud of myself and I hope I can get the basics i need in with flying colors even if I have to get a tutor (which yea I will probably need one). Any way sorry for my rambling on and on. I am just glad we have some understanding teachers that will gladly teach our kids what they go to school for. I do think that teachers should teach the academic stuff and be there for the child if he/she is having troubles at home cause sometimes if your in a situation and in a crappy family (families that do not care) they need an adult to talk to so I think a teacher being there for the child in that point in time is a plus.That could also back fire though I see that if the teacher is overly paranoid. I would rather a teacher sit me down and explain what my child has been saying to him/her so I can better myself as a parent. I know what is BS or not so I will not let the teacher tell me how to exactly raise my children I would have no problem telling her whats up at all.If there is real concern and patterns that change in my child's behavior though I would like I said sit me down and talk about it.

 

[BustyJules]

I am trying to get more informed on this subject though because having a intelligent conversation like this makes a person feel good that they can talk about these things respectfully with other people instead of saying how dumb some one is for not believing in the same thing you do. I am glad though I am not a teacher,because well I did not test well nor do well in school. I did not learn the way I needed to so I did not absorb some of the stuff I needed to. I have alot of weak points academically (not saying I am retarded or anything) such as math (which i hated anyway most boring subject of all time) science (loved science but science did not love me) and sadly English is also a weak point of mine. While I can speak it well I cannot type it well as you can see,but I am trying to get better. I scored beyond an 8th grade level to get into the college here which I think at minimum you have to be at a 10th grade level that is what the dude told me.

God that test was hard as hell I barely remembered some of that stuff.Did I mention I have an not so good memory? Boy was I proud of myself and I hope I can get the basics i need in with flying colors even if I have to get a tutor (which yea I will probably need one). Any way sorry for my rambling on and on. I am just glad we have some understanding teachers that will gladly teach our kids what they go to school for. I do think that teachers should teach the academic stuff and be there for the child if he/she is having troubles at home cause sometimes if your in a situation and in a crappy family (families that do not care) they need an adult to talk to so I think a teacher being there for the child in that point in time is a plus.That could also back fire though I see that if the teacher is overly paranoid. I would rather a teacher sit me down and explain what my child has been saying to him/her so I can better myself as a parent. I know what is BS or not so I will not let the teacher tell me how to exactly raise my children I would have no problem telling her whats up at all.If there is real concern and patterns that change in my child's behavior though I would like I said sit me down and talk about it.

Don't be sorry and don't worry, I am very good with words but give me a long division problem and I will cry. We all have our weak and strong points. This is exactly what I mean about education, It is not one size fits all and when the feds run it this is what happens.

 

[Nordling]

I want my president to tell every state that abortion is legal and that gay marriage must be legally recognized. I don't want to depend on the states to get it right. I suppose that means I'm far from libertarian, aye?

Be careful what you wish for. If you want the federal government involved in that much of your life, do not even begin to think it will stop there. Constitutionally speaking, only those issues specifically granted to the feds are the feds, all others belong to the states. But that has never stopped them before.

But that's not Amber is saying. She's saying that NO ONE should have the right to tell a woman what to do with her own body and certainly not a bunch of fat old, gray haired men, whether they represent a state or the Federal government. This is not about intrusion, it's about the rest of that statement in the constitution "...or the people." Last I looked a woman was "a people." The individual trumps the state. A right to privacy and a right to do what you damn please with your own body.

But that's not Amber is saying. She's saying blah, blah, blah...

Nordling, I believe in free speech and all, but you should consider letting the OP give her own explanation on what she is saying.

IMHO, for someone else to present their interpretation and present it as fact is somewhat intrusive and tyrannical.

I agree with your concern, however it was never my intention to speak FOR Amber, but simply to agree with her and speak to what RogueWarrior was saying. Most of what I said is my opinion and only my opinion. And as far as "bashing" and "Godwin's Law," that was directed at people who are not on this board (The Supreme Court in its present incarnation.) When I accuse them of fascism, I meant a classic definition of fascism, that is, when corporations and government get too close to one another. Just as I believe in separation of church and state, I also believe in separation of business and state. Both religion and business flourish when government does not favor any one portion of either one.

 

[sxycherrypie]

BTW just want to say that I'm not trying to pick on you cherry or anyone else. I love all things politics and debating so if I get carried away, I am sorry. And if I ever get offensive please let me know. I have my opinions just like every other person and the great thing about America is that we can express our opinions.

I kinda like debating a bit too it is addicting so no worries and if I seem like I am getting pissed off or anything when I am debating let me know. =D

 

[sxycherrypie]

I am trying to get more informed on this subject though because having a intelligent conversation like this makes a person feel good that they can talk about these things respectfully with other people instead of saying how dumb some one is for not believing in the same thing you do. I am glad though I am not a teacher,because well I did not test well nor do well in school. I did not learn the way I needed to so I did not absorb some of the stuff I needed to. I have alot of weak points academically (not saying I am retarded or anything) such as math (which i hated anyway most boring subject of all time) science (loved science but science did not love me) and sadly English is also a weak point of mine. While I can speak it well I cannot type it well as you can see,but I am trying to get better. I scored beyond an 8th grade level to get into the college here which I think at minimum you have to be at a 10th grade level that is what the dude told me.

God that test was hard as hell I barely remembered some of that stuff.Did I mention I have an not so good memory? Boy was I proud of myself and I hope I can get the basics i need in with flying colors even if I have to get a tutor (which yea I will probably need one). Any way sorry for my rambling on and on. I am just glad we have some understanding teachers that will gladly teach our kids what they go to school for. I do think that teachers should teach the academic stuff and be there for the child if he/she is having troubles at home cause sometimes if your in a situation and in a crappy family (families that do not care) they need an adult to talk to so I think a teacher being there for the child in that point in time is a plus.That could also back fire though I see that if the teacher is overly paranoid. I would rather a teacher sit me down and explain what my child has been saying to him/her so I can better myself as a parent. I know what is BS or not so I will not let the teacher tell me how to exactly raise my children I would have no problem telling her whats up at all.If there is real concern and patterns that change in my child's behavior though I would like I said sit me down and talk about it.

Don't be sorry and don't worry, I am very good with words but give me a long division problem and I will cry. We all have our weak and strong points. This is exactly what I mean about education, It is not one size fits all and when the feds run it this is what happens.

I think since teachers have to go to college for a few years they should add in some training on how to deal with children of all ages in they way they learn. Some are hands on,some are visual,or verbal with me I am all 3. I have to be shown what to do, their instructions have to be very clear (I am hard of hearing) then I will have to try to do it. The teachers I had would only would be hands on or verbal, or visual not all 3 at once like I needed so I did not really excel in somethings.If I confused you I am sorry.

 

[Nordling]

What do conservatives really think about ordinary people? And I'm talking about conservatives in positions of leadership, not ordinary people, who, for whatever reason have chosen to label themselves "conservative." (I did that myself years ago)