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Pimpin' for Ron Paul

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"During times of universal deceit telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
- George Orwell

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
- Martin Luther King Jr.

"In the beginning, a patriot is a scarce man, hated and feared. But in time,
when his cause succeeds, the timid join him, and it costs nothing to be a patriot."

-Mark Twain​
 
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The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object. - Thomas Jefferson

True individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made. - Franklin D. Roosevelt

The cost of freedom is always high, but Americans have always paid it. And one path we shall never choose, and that is the path of surrender, or submission. - John F. Kennedy

The law will never make men free, it is men that have to make the law free. - Henry David Thoreau

Liberty is slow fruit. It is never cheap; it is made difficult because freedom is the accomplishment and perfectness of man. -
Ralph Waldo Emerson

It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either. - Mark Twain
 
“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
-Cesare Beccaria

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."
-Thomas Jefferson

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
-The Declaration of Independence​
 
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All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson

Death is softer by far than tyranny.
Aeschylus

Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day.
Thomas Jefferson

When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

If tyranny and oppression come to this land it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison
 
When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

That's another one of my absolute favorites! Thomas Jefferson had the best ideas about government and what it SHOULD be. He's probably rolling in his grave seeing how "we the people" have allowed it to become so corrupt. When I see others in this very thread belittle the Constitution and say things like "Which is why I don't spew that crap about "but the founders..." Fuck the founders." it tends to bother me.
 
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War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their free choice, — is often the means of their regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. As long as justice and injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight for ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when need is, to do battle for the one against the other. -- John Stuart Mill

Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies. Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed. Their mistaken course stems from false notions of equality, ladies and gentlemen. Equality, rightly understood, as our founding fathers understood it, leads to liberty and to the emancipation of creative differences. Wrongly understood, as it has been so tragically in our time, it leads first to conformity and then to despotism. --Barry Goldwater

A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have. -- Gerald Ford

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals. -- C.S. Lewis

Freedom cannot be bestowed — it must be achieved. -- Elbert Hubbard

A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.-- Milton Friedman
 
Bocefish said:
When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

That's another one of my absolute favorites! Thomas Jefferson had the best ideas about government and what it SHOULD be. He's probably rolling in his grave seeing how "we the people" have allowed it to become so corrupt. When I see others in this very thread belittle the Constitution and say things like "Which is why I don't spew that crap about "but the founders..." Fuck the founders." it tends to bother me.

No idea where I "belittled the Constitution" but my comment about "The Founders" had to do with people who raise them to the level of gods. The founders were a diverse group and even had their own internal conflicts; they were not a homogenous group of people with a single "group mind." In particular, I enjoy reading the thoughts of Jefferson, Madison and Thomas Paine but even within this group there was diversity. Diversity of thought and opinion is really what makes the country what it is. With all the quoting going on today, it makes it difficult to really know what someone's real thoughts are.

Quoting Milton Friedman and Elbert Hubbard in the same post, e.g., I find a bit amusing. One was a radical right-wing economist; the other a self-described socialist/anarchist. So, cherry pick quotes from people you probably don't even understand, but it really won't be you saying anything.
 
Bocefish said:
Nordling said:
my comment about "The Founders" had to do with people who raise them to the level of gods.

Who raised them to the level of gods?

Even if someone had, that just means they're not the sharpest tool in the shed. That doesn't reason away saying "Fuck the founders."
This.

By making the founders off limits for jokes, criticism or even snark, you raise them to a level they would never have wanted to have. I may have a lot of respect for the writings of Jefferson, but at the same time I remember he owned slaves.

So... "Fuck the founders." Read their writings, read their history. Respect what they did that was great, while remembering what they did that was questionable or plain bad.

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” -Gandhi
 
I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic, and we should stand up and say, "We are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!" -- Hillary Clinton
 
Nordling said:
Bocefish said:
Nordling said:
my comment about "The Founders" had to do with people who raise them to the level of gods.

Who raised them to the level of gods?

Even if someone had, that just means they're not the sharpest tool in the shed. That doesn't reason away saying "Fuck the founders."
This.

By making the founders off limits for jokes, criticism or even snark, you raise them to a level they would never have wanted to have. I may have a lot of respect for the writings of Jefferson, but at the same time I remember he owned slaves.

So... "Fuck the founders." Read their writings, read their history. Respect what they did that was great, while remembering what they did that was questionable or plain bad.



“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” -Gandhi

Another BS answer... whatever floats your boat. They're not off limits for anything, but people don't generally go around saying fuck a certain group of people in a casual, joking, snarky... manner unless it was intentionally meant to be funny by a comedian. Nice to know you do, however.
 
I don't do it casually. When I first said it, I was making the point to whomever I was addressing that The Founders, like the Bible or other items are NOT to be waved about like a magic wand to make a point. Have you never heard people do this? "...but the founders!" as if that's a magic incantation of gods? Listen to C-Span or some YouTube--politicians and others do this very often--and it makes me ill.

If my way of dealing with that hypocrisy offends you, I'm sincerely sorry. I will avoid it in this thread in the future but please...try to understand my intent.
 
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As far as the slavery thing... everybody now knows that was wrong but that was a totally different era. IIRC, the largest landowner in the town could supposedly have his way with any woman or wife in the area too. Times change, people change the wrongs of the tyrannical rich and powerful by uniting together and correcting them.

Doctors as recent as 50-60 years ago also thought a woman's orgasm was hysteria. We humans don't always get things right at first, but most of our human race has the ability to evolve.
 
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Bocefish said:
As far as the slavery thing... everybody now knows that was wrong but that was a totally different era. IIRC, the largest landowner in the town could supposedly have his way with any woman or wife in the area too. Times change, people change the wrongs of the tyrannical rich and powerful by uniting together and correcting them.

Doctors as recent as 50-60 years ago also thought a woman's orgasm was hysteria. We humans don't always get things right at first, but most of our human race has the ability to evolve.
And that's it, in a nutshell. Times change. We can learn from the past if only we study the past using our minds, and not cleaving to the past just because "old" seems to add some authenticity. In 100 years or more, folks may laugh at some of the things that we now accept as gospel.
 
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schlmoe said:
I think the world is coming to an end...
False alarm:
K54ID.jpg

eX1hv.jpg
 
Bocefish said:
"Which is why I don't spew that crap about "but the founders..." Fuck the founders." it tends to bother me.


Me too. Damn it!
I think most of the founders were awesome and brave, and were trying to remove themselves from extreme tyranny and start something new... and free...

Hey look Bocefish.. I took your quoting suggestions BTW... :)
 
hillstrand said:
I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic, and we should stand up and say, "We are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!" -- Hillary Clinton


Ahhh, the Iron Stiletto.
She's just so great at quotes...
BARF. :)
 
Poker_Babe said:
"During times of universal deceit telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
- George Orwell


Lovely, Poker Babe....
I used to have a bumper sticker that said this, and some one wrote "douche bag" over it...
Shit heads...
 
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Since this thread seems to be wandering all over the place... Can somebody explain to me how this woman ever got to the position of Speaker of the House?



If I need to think of something unpleasant for staminal purposes, she does the trick every time nearly to the point of being a boner slayer.
 
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Damnit Bocefish, why'd you go and post her ugly face?! Now I'm gonna have nightmares. LOL
 
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