Open Letter to all of the MFC Viewers

[Fay_Galore]

-a lot of text here -

I don't even know where to begin, and yes, I've read it all! english is not my native language, so I'm having a bit of trouble finding the right words. This reads for most part like a rant, same as the opening post. Your view on camgirls comes of very bitter in this, are we really all such uninspiring sexrobots? (I know you didn't say 'all', you say 'most' I know, but the whole thing is so negative, it's hard to believe you're not talking about 99%)

But I gotta hand it to you, I was furiously nodding and shaking my head while reading is, so you got me! I ám one of those 90% who genuinely believes she has something unique to bring to the table, who isn't spilling out standard reactions to requests from visitors or taking my bra of in exactly the same way every time. But, then again, I haven't been on MFC for years and years. I am pretty sure, if I would be, I would find is very challenging not to fall back on successful concepts but keep innovating myself all the time.

and there's so much more! but I'll leave it to this for now.

 

[mickerd]

It's not a short read, it's not a short post. It's an indepth analysis of some of the issues plaguing the adult web cam experience, from a member's point of view. Read one paragraph read two...hell skip through and pick one or two at random to read. I feel as though each is a self contained thought and analysis. It might make you want to read more.

...If it's a technical issue. You can read it all here: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s0rnva

I was lying, I had actually read it. I just found it arrogant, egotistical, and the typical mansplanation I see all the time. I was just poking fun at the length for an excuse to post a cute gif.

By all means, please feel free to provide some specific examples of how his assessment displays "egotistical mansplanation" bc I actually thought that quite a few of his thoughts on elements of the website were fairly accurate (however maybe not the best choice of wording/terminology at times) Maybe you could offer some direct counterpoints to his statements. Vague generalized criticisms don't really help the flow of discussion. I'm curious as to which parts in particular people disagree with.

 

[TheCultOfLeo]

-a lot of text here -

I don't even know where to begin, and yes, I've read it all! english is not my native language, so I'm having a bit of trouble finding the right words. This reads for most part like a rant, same as the opening post. Your view on camgirls comes of very bitter in this, are we really all such uninspiring sexrobots? (I know you didn't say 'all', you say 'most' I know, but the whole thing is so negative, it's hard to believe you're not talking about 99%)

But I gotta hand it to you, I was furiously nodding and shaking my head while reading is, so you got me! I ám one of those 90% who genuinely believes she has something unique to bring to the table, who isn't spilling out standard reactions to requests from visitors or taking my bra of in exactly the same way every time. But, then again, I haven't been on MFC for years and years. I am pretty sure, if I would be, I would find is very challenging not to fall back on successful concepts but keep innovating myself all the time.

and there's so much more! but I'll leave it to this for now.

Not bitter one bit. Honestly, I absolutely LOVE my favorite cam model. I've stuck with the same 3-4 for the past 3 years. I'm super talkative in rooms and I tip quite often. I don't even pm, I usually only do 5 token ninja tip notes if I have something private to say. (It bother's me when people go "check my pm hun")

If you're referring to this "There's also quite a few of you that are dehumanizing yourselves...and not in the "I pee for tokens bb" kind of way...and this doesn't apply to everyone but... "____ for tits, ____for ass. Let's get this cumshow going! Thank you hun." If I never knew what a cam model was...and I closed my eyes and just listened to some audio of one, I'd think they were some kind of coin operated robot sex doll." I'm definitely not talking about 99% here.

As a model...lets say maybe only 2 or 3 paragraphs apply to you. Maybe none. The reason why it's so long and there's so much there is because what Spexy brought up in her original post is a real issue in the webcamming community and in particular MFC. Rooms are quiet, awkward, models are upset and frustrated and some are financially suffering. What my post is...is the flip side from a member's perspective. "You're upset...well we're upset, tired and frustrated too" and maybe the reason why this issue persists is because the two sides aren't having an open and honest dialog about it.

There are a number of different points I'm trying to hit in the post, and I still don't think I covered all of the points from a member's perspective. I don't think Spexy or any one advocating from the model's side on this forum has hit all the camgirl issues either...but while we're having this discussion...let's really talk about it.

I'm not a cam model but I care about the webcamming community and the culture, and not because of my dick. My post is fueled not by bitterness but by nostalgia. I think the webcamming community provides a great place for people to explore sexuality. Wether it's a fetish they're too scared to tell their friends about or it's a girl who happens to like to watch cam models. It should allow you to have a comfortable individual experience tailored to you. In so many ways it doesn't feel fun anymore, sometimes it can feel like pulling teeth. I think you girls are becoming the new definition of "porn stars". I think you've got an incredible opportunity to shape an otherwise shady & taboo business and own it. As a member, as someone who has watched the change in MFC - I don't want a bunch of cookie cutter sex bots.

I just followed a model on Twitter today that ive seen tons of times, who after watching her vines thought she was hilarious and talented. NONE of that comes through when she's on cam. She's sitting there, texting...watching tv...waiting for her topic to be finished. She's a higher cam score model btw. Its a total mind fuck to me now. For me that's an issue. Member to member, I don't feel like we should be rewarding for her lack luster presence on cam - especially not when there are TONs of other amazingly interactive, funny and entertaining girls on. Also Im not saying she's horrible, screw her blah blah blah...I'm saying I'd like to see more what comes through in her Vines that doesn't on cam. That's one of the places I'm coming from in the post...but I like to talk a lot...and I could probably keep going but...I'll leave it to this for now as well.

 

[Mark6887]

cultofleo said

maybe the reason why this issue persists is because the two sides aren't having an open and honest dialog about it.

Now that's a true statement ! :handgestures-salute:

I'll say again that's why the tumblr post and this thread have great value. Regardless of the job you have to open to constructive criticism and say "ok what can I do to get better".

In that same context I can admit here publicly that after reading these forums I have learned a lot from the camgirls perspective.

It is a unique community that we are all apart of that needs both sides to maybe talk more and understand the issues rather then say " get off your $%$ and start talking/tipping' try " Why are we not tipping " or "Hey what would like to see today or tomorrow" Just a thought

Enough babbling from me..... carry on. bscene-drinkingcheers:

 

[Shaun__]

By all means, please feel free to provide some specific examples of how his assessment displays "egotistical mansplanation" bc I actually thought that quite a few of his thoughts on elements of the website were fairly accurate (however maybe not the best choice of wording/terminology at times) Maybe you could offer some direct counterpoints to his statements. Vague generalized criticisms don't really help the flow of discussion. I'm curious as to which parts in particular people disagree with.

Here you go.

Let me mansplain what you dames are doing.

However, while some girls are getting fucked over for skypes or gifts...you girls collectively are doing what most members can never do to you...FUCK YOURSELF...by stealing from each other and whitewashing each other instead of innovating.

You need to get paid to do stuff, but you also should stop doing that. It makes it seem like you are doing things for money.

If I never knew what a cam model was...and I closed my eyes and just listened to some audio of one, I'd think they were some kind of coin operated robot sex doll. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying don't charge for things or fulfill requests without tips. I'm saying that for many of you that's all you are, that's all you do.

Remember how I said earlier I only spend about five minutes in a room? Well you are not expressing to me in that abundant amount of time everything that makes you special.

For all the "this site is about interaction" you girls have really boiled most of that away. It's so boring now. In the past 3 years I've been a member I've watched the personal experience die away almost completely on the site.

What is up with all the dames talking about what they will not do? Also stop talking about what you will offer me, I do not like that shit.

But instead it's my topic, my vids, my bills, my rent, my rules, my club, my this, my that.

I am all knowing and can tell you what is in the hearts of all men. So you can stop wasting your time getting basics to upgrade, it NEVER happens.

What you also fail to understand is...guests make up a big part of this "10x" and don't WANT to tip. Wether they're cheap and logged on to an adult site called MyFreeCams expecting...i don't know a free cam show or they're premiums in disguise…they're not giving up the tokens. Basics, especially ones who have had their account for some time, WILL NEVER TIP. They're committed to the leech lifestyle...so committed they made an account when they didn't need to.

A certain percentage of you are supposed to fail, and be poor. I will MFC you a list of those models if you would like to look for your name, I would hate for you to waste time trying to succeed.

Also understand YOU ARE ALL NOT SUPPOSED TO MAKE YOUR GOALS.

Sometimes I get distracted by squirrels when typing.

I spend most of my time in 1 regular's room that I tip regularly…without even a second thought…whom I adore still after 3 years…and continue to look forward to seeing her every day. I'm not the biggest tipper, but I'm not the lowest...I'm one of I'd say 25 regulars who for the most part all contribute to some degree. When our favorite model was in need, she didn't have to ask us to help her - we collectively got together and took care of it for her and surprised her. I honestly feel like regulars are the backbone of camming for middle-camscore models. What makes a regular a tipping regular and not just a talking regular? ...I don't know, but even just talkative "non-requesting" regulars are good because they add to the room environment and make it seem like fun place to be. Which I think to some degree we agree on, people need to talk and interact. However, I do notice an overwhelming trend of models trading in regulars for top tippers & club members. But I should also note that if most of your top tippers are regulars...maybe that should tell you something.

Also you are soooooo fucking stupid trying to make money.

They watch you fight over an arbitrary ranking to increase your productivity and their profit. Which is good business. Them displaying the top 21-100 was genius. You all fell for it. You all started selling video packs, you all started having clubs, you did double raffles, you all started to assimilate yourselves. Was it really so bad being #473 when you were having fun and still paying your bills with no worries? Was it worth it? You changed the landscape of MFC, not us.

Dudes don't give those dames you do not like money, but don't ever stop giving those dames you do like money. No need to thank me for sharing this wisdom.

To my fellow members: don't give in to begging, don't give into sob stories and don't reinforce backwards and ugly behavior. But DO support models that are sweet, sexy, smart or whatever makes you fancy them.

Also have I told you I have over 20,000 reward points? I only ask because I have over 20,000 reward points you see. Yep the big 20,000 is not so big from this side. Please keep treating me the same as any other person, even though I am one who has over 20,000 points though.

- From an Active 2x Platinum Member

 

[UncleThursday]

It's not a short read, it's not a short post. It's an indepth analysis of some of the issues plaguing the adult web cam experience, from a member's point of view. Read one paragraph read two...hell skip through and pick one or two at random to read. I feel as though each is a self contained thought and analysis. It might make you want to read more.

...If it's a technical issue. You can read it all here: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s0rnva

I was lying, I had actually read it. I just found it arrogant, egotistical, and the typical mansplanation I see all the time. I was just poking fun at the length for an excuse to post a cute gif.

By all means, please feel free to provide some specific examples of how his assessment displays "egotistical mansplanation" bc I actually thought that quite a few of his thoughts on elements of the website were fairly accurate (however maybe not the best choice of wording/terminology at times) Maybe you could offer some direct counterpoints to his statements. Vague generalized criticisms don't really help the flow of discussion. I'm curious as to which parts in particular people disagree with.

A lot of it sounded much more akin to things you can apply to a lot of businesses, not just camming. The 'me too' aspect appears in all sorts of businesses. Electronics, software, manufacturing, retail, fast food, etc. And, honestly, there's not all that much to differentiate them from one another. Company A produces X, Company B produces Y, but X and Y are essentially the same thing.

It's the same in camming. Model X is essentially the same as Model Y when looking at generalities. Finding the differences each member wants in order to want to spend money on is what is needed to differentiate them, the same for any product on the market. What makes that TV more appealing to you than another? Why that brand of detergent? Why that cell phone carrier? Etc. Is it the brand loyalty? Is it the price? Is there some aspect that you feel makes the product a better quality for your money? Are their advertisements just that much more appealing to you?

Camming, like any business, is not a guaranteed way of making money. If it was, we'd all be our own business owners, all making comfortable money. The post spelled that out, pretty clearly. It might not have sounded the most subtle way of putting it, nor the most model friendly sounding post... but it spelled out some basic things that people seem to forget. There is competition.There's a LOT of competition, especially just on MFC alone. Models need to bring something to the table besides good looks. Just saying members should be tipping more is not enough incentive for anyone to tip. If it was, then I could just tell my bosses I should very easily be making $30 more an hour, just because.

You need to get paid to do stuff, but you also should stop doing that. It makes it seem like you are doing things for money.

Poor excuse for mansplaining (a term most often used by radical feminists to try and say that the argument has no bearing because it came from a man). Why? Because, guess what? If I could make hundreds or more a week in order for me to eventually be for jerking off for someone else's pleasure, well, you can be sure as fuck I would do it. But, the market for male cam models is extremely limited, mostly towards gay men. Also, as JJ had pointed out in a post on her tumblr a while back, the market for male cam models or male porn models is extremely narrow. If you do not have a male model body (chiseled abs and muscles, square jaw, no body hair, etc.), forget trying to be a male cam model. Yet, women of all shapes and sizes can potentially make money camming. If you're even what most would consider an 'average' looking guy (by other guy standards, not women's, they see most men as below average looking, in general) then you will fail miserably as a male cam model.

You need to get paid to do stuff, but you also should stop doing that. It makes it seem like you are doing things for money.

You mean like every single person in the world who works a shit job just to try and get by? Your mansplaining needs work.

Remember how I said earlier I only spend about five minutes in a room? Well you are not expressing to me in that abundant amount of time everything that makes you special.

First impressions are the most important, in every single social and professional way. A hiring manager can tell within 5 minutes if they're going to hire you or not. A man or woman you walk up to to try and talk to for potential dating purposes often has a judgement about you in mind in less than 1 minute. You can almost instantly tell if you will like your new co-workers at a job.

Can first impressions be turned around? Yes. But it often takes far more work to turn a bad first impression around than getting that initial bad first impression.

What is up with all the dames talking about what they will not do? Also stop talking about what you will offer me, I do not like that shit.

Circular logic is circular.

A certain percentage of you are supposed to fail, and be poor. I will MFC you a list of those models if you would like to look for your name, I would hate for you to waste time trying to succeed.

Um, welcome to the real world? Not everyone succeeds. It's a goddamn fact of existence. If everyone succeeded all the time then we'd live in the perfect utopia. Not every business succeeds, despite its best efforts. Not every person becomes as successful as Bill Gates or Steve Jobs with billions to their names.

You sure this is mansplaining? Because it seems you have forgotten some basic facts of existence. FFS we wouldn't even be here now if everything succeeded because the damn dinosaurs would still be roaming the Earth.

Sometimes I get distracted by squirrels when typing.

This is being facetious just to do so. See above about first impressions.

Dudes don't give those dames you do not like money, but don't ever stop giving those dames you do like money. No need to thank me for sharing this wisdom.

So, you're suggesting we do give all our money to any model who asks or who has some sob story? I'm being completely serious here. Should I stop only tipping who I want to tip and instead tip every single model on MFC until I can't tip anymore because my bank account is empty?

Going by that logic, I expect a check from you very soon to help me pay for my upcoming hospital bill for my surgery to remove arterial blood clots. Oh, not sending me any money? Didn't think so.

Also have I told you I have over 20,000 reward points? I only ask because I have over 20,000 reward points you see. Yep the big 20,000 is not so big from this side. Please keep treating me the same as any other person, even though I am one who has over 20,000 points though.

All I see her is a little epeen measuring about how much each may or may not have spent.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I've said this before and I know it's not in the power of anyone here, but there is one thing MFC could easily do to increase activity on the site and make countdowns go a lot faster. Simply allow the option of public chat countdowns towards a goal where no members are charged until the goal is met.

While I like the idea of this (kinda GoldShowy). On MFC this would mean loosing out on at least a solid half my tokens. I almost never make my last goal of the night..and sometimes don't make ones even before that. And I am not willing to compromise on what I am charging for my shows. So it would mean poof goodbye to the 50% of all those shows I worked for. Not to mention I still worked for that half a goal. With videos, flashes, dances and general entertainment. This would also royally fuck up a camscore. If a girl says 1000 for topless...makes it down to the last 400 and can just feel the room is not going ot make it and logs out....that 600 is now gone..so would it/would it now go to overall camscore equation? Becouse the the actual time spent doing it, was still put in.

On SM girls have the option of doing the gold show even if the goal isn't meet, they also can simply reset the timer... Personally, I have pretty much stopped going to models rooms who's countdown are so high that they consistently fail meet their goals, I am even more reluctant to tip in them, unless it is for something like content. I know this sounds harsh, but I also know I am not the only member who feels that way. The benefit of a gold system for a model like you is to remove my reluctance of being one of only a 2 or 3 tippers, or even worse the first tipper. I suspect you'd make more in completed countdown that you'd lose in refunded countdowns. I’d think the camscore would only be based on collected tokens

MFC is hypercompetive, Darwinian system which channels most of the gain to the top 1% of the models and most of the pain to 1% of the viewers. If you figure the hourly rate of top models is more than 1000 times as much as some of the page 4 models and you compare that to ratio of hourly wage McDonald's CEO to McDonald workers which is 1795-1, I wonder why there are not protestors in front of MFC's office. Not to mention would Leo makes.

I also understand that top 5-10 tippers make up a significant portion of most models models income and some guys appear on more than one model list. So while some of these guys maybe CEO recycling their excessive salary, the top tippers also include guys who can't afford it and leave MFC deeply in debt or even bankrupt. I know a number of MFC members and former members in this category and it saddens me. If a higher percentage of viewers paid, it means these guys will feel less obligation to help out their favorite camgirl who is struggling to meet rent or whatever... This is a big reason I am so down on chronic freeloaders.

Now an argument could be made the the top models deserve $1,000+/hour while bottom one deserve less than $1/hour (and many of them should quit camming and do something else), if the system was fair, but it isn't fair. MFC is filled with virtuous and vicious cycles which reward those at the top and punish those at the bottom. Some are obvious High camscore -> Top page place -> More viewers -> More tips -> higher camscore. Same thing with the most popular rooms. Some are less obvious, like the rooms you might like recommendation, once you start visiting models with high cam score rooms the recommendations are for other models with high camscores. Miss MFC is huge virtuous cycle, not only is it another source for viewers, but regulars will spend a boat load to help their favorite models. I know i spent more in 4 months helping 3 different models with top 100, than I spent in the other 20 odd months I've been a premium. Now this is all great for the top 100, but it sure depletes the available tokens for the other 25,000 models who cammed that month. Hell just the halo effect of high camscore is a big deal, guys (including me) will tip a high camscore model a lot more to do the same thing spank, flash as a low camscore model, which of course leads to a higher camscore.

MFC also contains many vicious cycles like the failed countdown. Failed countdown-> upset tippers –> depressed model-> worse show-> less viewers-> reluctant tippers -> Failed countdown. Same thing with talking, Less talkers--> frustrated model--> Less entertainment->Less viewers--> Less talkers. I think that most of these negative feedback loops are generally unintentional, clearly are some are intentional.

I think there is great wisdom in the advice given by JJ, Miss Lolli and several others, that models are largely responsible for their own success. But I can’t condemn any model, who realizes that MFC’s system is rigged against her, and speaks out in a frustration. Hell you can do everything right bring your A game every night, play games, greet members, fuck yourself silly and still spends many hours a day, with 8 viewers and two premium and 400 camscore. Yes many models do dig themselves out of hole, but the forum has a huge survivor-ship bias. We hear Aella’s story of 2K camscore to #7 MFC, we don’t hear the numerous models who went from 2K camscore to 400 and realize that she was making min wage with a lot more stress and gave up camming or moved to a different site.

I am a proud died-in-the-wool capitalist, but I find the MFC system to be capitalism gone crazy. I find myself hoping for more socialist system spreading
both the wealth to more models, and the cost to more viewers.

I am sure most of your are thinking, “well I want to be a unicorn and shit rainbows, but it ain’t happening. MFC is what it is I can’t change it.” Those of you in the top , are going to think why the hell should I give up some money.. My answer is it isn’t like you are trying change Washington DC, just one medium companies system. You can organize yourself. I don’t have a good answer to why those at the top should sacrifice, Karma maybe?

 

[BBellvue]

Poor excuse for mansplaining (a term most often used by radical feminists to try and say that the argument has no bearing because it came from a man).

I am wishy washy on my agreement of the post, but this is not mansplaining. Mansplaining is men trying to explain something to women that women have a better general understanding of. To say that an argument means nothing just because it came from a man is simplifying things to an unwelcome degree.

Normally I wouldn't even bother with this but I dislike that definition because it just furthers the idea that women's rights activists are anti-men, when in reality, only the shitty ones are. We all have greater understandings of different things, and it's okay to admit that sometimes we aren't in a place to discuss things fairly. (For instance, as a new model, I probably shouldn't have posted in this thread like I know things when they clearly haven't worked for me yet. :lol: )

 

[TheCultOfLeo]

I don't have all the answers, my post isn't a SHES WRONG / I'M RIGHT sort of thing.

"Let me mansplain what you dames are doing."
- You know what, you got me there. In a weird way this feels almost sexist. Like I can't have an opinion on the subject because I'm a man. Sometimes being removed from something or having a different perspective can lead to incredible advances in all parts of life.

"You need to get paid to do stuff, but you also should stop doing that. It makes it seem like you are doing things for money."
- I'm pretty sure I said "this doesn't apply to everyone", but that segment isn't about that at all. The very next fucking sentence is "Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying don't charge for things or fulfill requests without tips."

"Remember how I said earlier I only spend about five minutes in a room? Well you are not expressing to me in that abundant amount of time everything that makes you special."
- Remember when I said "they're premiums in disguise" in relation to guests? I spend about 5 minutes talking to models trying to interact, but when I'm working at home listen to quite a few girls talk in a browser tab from Lounge or just not logged in. What's the appropriate amount of time by your standards to spend in a room looking to see if you like a model or want to tip her...20 minutes? an hour? weeks? ...because I think now we're back at square on the issue.

"What is up with all the dames talking about what they will not do?"
- The people that take the time to read things like room rules are usually not the ones that will break them. It's the guys respectfully looking at a model's profile and saying "what's this girl about? let me get an idea before I engage her" Some of them are written with such contempt and snark that by the time you're done you're left with a sour taste in your mouth. You've alienated the wrong group of people.

"I am all knowing and can tell you what is in the hearts of all men. So you can stop wasting your time getting basics to upgrade, it NEVER happens."
- If you want to pretend that basics and guests are an abundant pool of members just waiting to get premium accounts...I should probably stop responding to you right now. A cam model banking on converting a guest or a basic would be like banking on winning the lottery.

"A certain percentage of you are supposed to fail, and be poor."
- A certain percentage of you are supposed to fail...that's business. Not all business and products succeed...they don't. In context...it's more a statement of "you're not guaranteed success" It doesn't mean you have to fail...or be poor. It means you have to work hard to succeed over your competition so you don't end up poor if you want to continue camming.

"Sometimes I get distracted by squirrels when typing."
- It's an anecdote about the importance of regulars in the room via my personal experience.

"Also you are soooooo fucking stupid trying to make money."
- There's a difference between them making money, and the shift that MFC made when the top 100 was posted. I think any model will tell you that one event changed things quite a bit on MFC. I'm drawing a correlation between the increase of "Rank Runs" to the increased difficulty for models on MFC. I can tell you've had conversations with ownership about the top 100 and when they tried to put "room counts" on model's avatars...and I can tell you their reasoning had nothing to do with "helping the girls make more money".

"Dudes don't give those dames you do not like money, but don't ever stop giving those dames you do like money. No need to thank me for sharing this wisdom."
- Not gonna lie I think you nailed that one. I should have added the "No need to thank me for sharing this wisdom" part though.

"Also have I told you I have over 20,000 reward points? I only ask because I have over 20,000 reward points you see. Yep the big 20,000 is not so big from this side. Please keep treating me the same as any other person, even though I am one who has over 20,000 points though."
- My "From an Active 2x Platinum Member" is more of a "from someone that's active on mfc, talks, tips contributes" ...I mean it's well over 20,000 if we want to be petty about it...and it should be I've been on MFC for 3 years. Did I also not mention "I'm not the biggest tipper, but I'm not the lowest" Because I'm not the biggest tipper...i'm not the lowest either. It had nothing to do with bragging...simply painting a picture to models that I'm not a bitter non-tipping freeloader. I like cam models, I tip cam models, I talk to cam models.

 

[SexySteph]

One thing that's bothering me in this "you're all generic and therefore it's your fault now" explanation is we're dealing with people, not electronics. We could all do the exact same shows but there would still be a reason why some guys like model x and others like model y. To a degree the blackberry vs other smartphone analogy might work, but it doesn't entirely.

Most models you enjoy spending time with are based on personality. Her cool shows or masturbation talents got your attention but you stayed because you found her obsession with brawtwurst adorable or the fact that she gets incredibly excited about Harry Potter makes you get excited too.

I don't have much to say about Spexy's letter. I agree with some of the spirit of it. Seriously, if I see your face in my room daily and never even talk, you suck. I'm not talking first time viewers, I'm talking people that show up nightly for weeks on end. But I do actually regret reblogging it because the tone bugs me upon re-reading with a cooler head.

But please, let's not try to reduce this to acting as if models are electronics who have all become too similar to make you like one over the other. Certain viewers will click with certain camgirls in the same way they may click with certain women as romantic partners or other adults as friends. Even if those camgirls or those friends or those women are dressing the same way, doing the same things as another, there's something about personalities that click.

 

[JickyJuly]

One thing that's bothering me in this "you're all generic and therefore it's your fault now" explanation is we're dealing with people, not electronics. We could all do the exact same shows but there would still be a reason why some guys like model x and others like model y. To a degree the blackberry vs other smartphone analogy might work, but it doesn't entirely.

Most models you enjoy spending time with are based on personality. Her cool shows or masturbation talents got your attention but you stayed because you found her obsession with brawtwurst adorable or the fact that she gets incredibly excited about Harry Potter makes you get excited too.

I don't have much to say about Spexy's letter. I agree with some of the spirit of it. Seriously, if I see your face in my room daily and never even talk, you suck. I'm not talking first time viewers, I'm talking people that show up nightly for weeks on end. But I do actually regret reblogging it because the tone bugs me upon re-reading with a cooler head.

But please, let's not try to reduce this to acting as if models are electronics who have all become too similar to make you like one over the other. Certain viewers will click with certain camgirls in the same way they may click with certain women as romantic partners or other adults as friends. Even if those camgirls or those friends or those women are dressing the same way, doing the same things as another, there's something about personalities that click.

To be fair, none of the responses here have come close to the negativity of the initial open letter which was full of assumptions, degradation and objectification for "all of the MFC viewers". To some degree, camgirls do sign up for objectification or at least to be made a bit more fantastical in 2d. We're there looking our best, always ready with a joke, a wiggle or a "Thank You!". Sure, some of the great dudes are happy to see us as real people. That's always nice. But, we're not the women they come home to who ask why the garbage hasn't been taken out or tell them not to eat another slice of pizza for the sake of their cholesterol. That, as Ashleigh so eloquently put it, is "what their wives are for".

 

[Aella]

It's not a short read, it's not a short post. It's an indepth analysis of some of the issues plaguing the adult web cam experience, from a member's point of view. Read one paragraph read two...hell skip through and pick one or two at random to read. I feel as though each is a self contained thought and analysis. It might make you want to read more.

...If it's a technical issue. You can read it all here: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s0rnva

I was lying, I had actually read it. I just found it arrogant, egotistical, and the typical mansplanation I see all the time. I was just poking fun at the length for an excuse to post a cute gif.

Mildly offtopic, but the word 'mansplanation' seems really offensive. If someone brushed away something I said as 'womansplanation' I'd be enraged that my gender was somehow brought into the equation.

/kdone

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I don't have all the answers, my post isn't a SHES WRONG / I'M RIGHT sort of thing.

"Also you are soooooo fucking stupid trying to make money."
- There's a difference between them making money, and the shift that MFC made when the top 100 was posted. I think any model will tell you that one event changed things quite a bit on MFC. I'm drawing a correlation between the increase of "Rank Runs" to the increased difficulty for models on MFC. I can tell you've had conversations with ownership about the top 100 and when they tried to put "room counts" on model's avatars...and I can tell you their reasoning had nothing to do with "helping the girls make more money".

".

Miss MFC started the month after I joined MFC, so I was unaware of the history. I'd be interested in hearing what the reasoning was. From my prospective virtually every improvement on MFC over the last two years is designed to drive traffic to the top models rooms. Although presumably the real motivation is to make more money for MFC..
Feel free to PM f there is an issue.

 

[Joeternal]

I'm going to give another simple piece of advice. I tip and talk to models because I find them attractive and/or because I like them. Take care of your appearance, and be a cool person. It's not that complicated.

 

[SexySteph]

One thing that's bothering me in this "you're all generic and therefore it's your fault now" explanation is we're dealing with people, not electronics. We could all do the exact same shows but there would still be a reason why some guys like model x and others like model y. To a degree the blackberry vs other smartphone analogy might work, but it doesn't entirely.

Most models you enjoy spending time with are based on personality. Her cool shows or masturbation talents got your attention but you stayed because you found her obsession with brawtwurst adorable or the fact that she gets incredibly excited about Harry Potter makes you get excited too.

I don't have much to say about Spexy's letter. I agree with some of the spirit of it. Seriously, if I see your face in my room daily and never even talk, you suck. I'm not talking first time viewers, I'm talking people that show up nightly for weeks on end. But I do actually regret reblogging it because the tone bugs me upon re-reading with a cooler head.

But please, let's not try to reduce this to acting as if models are electronics who have all become too similar to make you like one over the other. Certain viewers will click with certain camgirls in the same way they may click with certain women as romantic partners or other adults as friends. Even if those camgirls or those friends or those women are dressing the same way, doing the same things as another, there's something about personalities that click.

To be fair, none of the responses here have come close to the negativity of the initial open letter which was full of assumptions, degradation and objectification for "all of the MFC viewers". To some degree, camgirls do sign up for objectification or at least to be made a bit more fantastical in 2d. We're there looking our best, always ready with a joke, a wiggle or a "Thank You!". Sure, some of the great dudes are happy to see us as real people. That's always nice. But, we're not the women they come home to who ask why the garbage hasn't been taken out or tell them not to eat another slice of pizza for the sake of their cholesterol. That, as Ashleigh so eloquently put it, is "what their wives are for".

I don't disagree with any of that. I'm just saying that the reason members like Camgirl X more than Camgirl Y isn't based on solely what they do or don't do or anything along those lines like Cult said. "She has boobs, you have boobs; you have a vagina, etc." I wasn't talking about any of those things, I was simply pointing out that it's not just what girls DO that makes one guy like her over another. It's something intrinsic and maybe not something that can even be named. Regardless of whether or not guys "choose to see us as real people" they do see something that differentiates each camgirl from another, otherwise member "ILikeButts" would frequent every girl that does anal as opposed to one to three girls that does anal AND has a personality he clicks with.

I was simply disagreeing with Cult's comparison between "Camgirls v Camgirls" and "Blackberry vs Iphone".

 

[RebeccaT]

Hell just the halo effect of high camscore is a big deal, guys (including me) will tip a high camscore model a lot more to do the same thing spank, flash as a low camscore model, which of course leads to a higher camscore.

This makes me so mad. I banned a guy from the "Big Boys' Club" (his name for it) for that. I asked why he gave me smaller tips. His answer was because the other big tippers don't see him tip me. BANNED!

Before taking time off for treatment my camscore was just below 3000 because I'm fun, witty, well educated, entertaining and darn sexy! Now it's below 900. Even you guys here seem to think anyone below 1000 is a vegetable on cam. So what hope for me? I'm now too scared to log in lest I descend to shrivelled mushroom status and you guys judge me on camscore instead of spending time in my room.

 

[eclipse76]

you guys judge me on camscore instead of spending time in my room.

There are thousands of models on cams at any moment, customers won't spend 5mn in each room to know if you're worth their time and money. So yeah below a certain threshold, it serves as a filter.

 

[UncleThursday]

Poor excuse for mansplaining (a term most often used by radical feminists to try and say that the argument has no bearing because it came from a man).

I am wishy washy on my agreement of the post, but this is not mansplaining. Mansplaining is men trying to explain something to women that women have a better general understanding of. To say that an argument means nothing just because it came from a man is simplifying things to an unwelcome degree.

Normally I wouldn't even bother with this but I dislike that definition because it just furthers the idea that women's rights activists are anti-men, when in reality, only the shitty ones are. We all have greater understandings of different things, and it's okay to admit that sometimes we aren't in a place to discuss things fairly. (For instance, as a new model, I probably shouldn't have posted in this thread like I know things when they clearly haven't worked for me yet. :lol: )

Well, I believe the problem with feminism, currently, is in just how many of the 'shitty ones' are essentially the public face of feminism. Militant radical feminism is the feminism most people see today.

You'll see them all over the web.

Meg Lanker Simons, who made fake rape threats against herself while at college on a college message board... but was STILL allowed to graduate and go to law school after pleading no contest to the charges and she had a previous felony charge when she had threatened people at her former employer with a loaded gun.

The one nicknamed Big Red, who when her and her radical feminist group tried protesting a MRA (and MRA's are just as bad as militant radical feminists) meeting by blocking the hallway leading to it and THEN pulled the fire alarm in the building and then was caught on video singing Cry Me a River when male suicide rates were brought up to her. Strangely, no one was arrested for pulling the fire alarm.

The ones protesting some guy's speech at a college hall, blocking people who paid to get in there to hear it, getting in the faces of anyone in line calling them rape apologists and misogynists then violently clashing with police who tried to remove them from blocking the entrance to the building.

Anita Sarkeesian and her followers who claim misogyny at any and all valid criticism of her poorly researched web videos and who has been making far more money on the talk circuit discussing how the internet is full of big bad bullies who made her feel threatened because of some Newgrounds game that allowed people to click to make her look beat up (yet, never mentions the literally THOUSANDS of the same type of games that depict men as the person being beat up on that same site) even though she got nearly $160k from Kickstarter to make a video series that was supposed to be done (as in all videos released and DVDs to backers who pledged enough) at the end of 2012, but to date has released only 4 of the promised 12-13 videos and the first one didn't arrive until March of 2013. But don't dare say anything about why it is taking so long to make the videos, because her and her followers will crucify you on Twitter and Tumblr and other social media as being a misogynist who just wants to shut her up. Also don't bring up the fact that she has many facts wrong in the videos, continually uses lies by omission in them, purports her own views as absolute fact, etc. or you're just some woman hating rape apologist out to cause her harm. Oh, and I should mention, for someone who felt so threatened by this stupid game, she has absolutely no problem showing it off in every single one of her presentations. Also, if you happen to go to one of those talk gigs, don't dare bring anything that can record what she says or the questions and answers she may give, you'll be ejected from the place.

Rebecca Watson, an atheist feminist who now does the talk circuit because when a guy asked her to coffee in the elevator she took it as to mean he wanted to violently rape her dozens of times before finally potentially cutting her into little pieces (ok, a bit of hyperbole here, but you get the idea) and became so frightened for her life.

And others of similar veins.

Also, notice how Rebecca Watson and Anita Sarkeesian have literally become professional victims. They literally make their money by taking paid talk circuit gigs describing how bad they were victimized (perceived or real). This is something modern radical feminism embraces. It's not about empowering women or gender equality where needed. It's about embracing any perceived victimhood and trying to milk as much cash and sympathy out of it as possible.

These people are the face of modern feminism. Like it or not. And these are the same types of people who would describe any explanation coming from a man on any subject to be mansplaining. Whether or not you personally agree with that definition, the public faces of modern radical feminism would all agree with it. If it comes from a man, it means nothing.

These are also the same types of feminists that say sexism is a one way street and only happens to women. That rape only happens to women-- and that women never lie about being raped, ever. That domestic violence only happens to women. Etc.

Militant radical feminism is the feminism people see. It's the feminism taught in colleges. It is what the public sees and believes is feminism. It's why we, for some reason, have to teach men not to rape... even though the overwhelming majority of men aren't rapists. For better or for worse, this is what feminism has become. A money making machine (rape and battered womens shelters competing for government grants; professional victims doing the talk scene to make money talking about how bad everyone is to them, etc.) that cares only for fulfilling the agendas of pretty much white middle class women, and couldn't give two shits about women who actually live in oppression. They make their own views of oppression in the Western World seem even more problematic than the real problems faced by women in certain areas of the world.

 

[RebeccaT]

you guys judge me on camscore instead of spending time in my room.

There are thousands of models on cams at any moment, customers won't spend 5mn in each room to know if you're worth their time and money. So yeah below a certain threshold, it serves as a filter.

Yep...I understand that.

This has been enlightening. I now know there is little point in trying to repair my cs. Time spent flogging a dead horse is better spent on sites where I do earn a living.

Added as an afterthought: Why do I care so much about MFC? It was where I first began camming, it was fun, friendly, it made me a very good living and I have a soft spot for it.

 

[eclipse76]

You're at 900, that's totally do-able according to what I've read here

 

[RebeccaT]

You're at 900, that's totally do-able according to what I've read here

An hour with few or no tips will make it drop to 700. I've made a 1000 tokens in the first twenty minutes but it's just not in my nature to log off as I see models doing. "Got your tokens, guys, I'm off!" No chat, no interaction. The more I think about it, the more I realise MFC is not the sociable site it claims to be and as I'm very sociable it is no longer going to work for me.

But, you now what? I will give it one last shot...I'll try to get back over 1000 but if it drops in that first session to less than 800 then I'm stuffed, aren't I?

Lord, we mustn't let this thread get hijacked, but I do appreciate you replies, thank you

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

you guys judge me on camscore instead of spending time in my room.

There are thousands of models on cams at any moment, customers won't spend 5mn in each room to know if you're worth their time and money. So yeah below a certain threshold, it serves as a filter.

Added as an afterthought: Why do I care so much about MFC? It was where I first began camming, it was fun, friendly, it made me a very good living and I have a soft spot for it.

While I'm sure there are exceptions, all of the models I know that left MFC to work on other sites (generally SM), said that enjoyed working more on MFC that the other sites. MFC was more social, less just about the sex.. Plenty have said they make more money on SM. All of them have said the money was more consistent on SM then MFC. Almost no days of logging and making $1.50 on SM. So I am guessing part of your feeling is that great days on MFC, can leave you on feeling on top of the world, but bad weeks on MFC can be soul crushing. Not an easy trade off to make.

 

[RebeccaT]

While I'm sure there are exceptions, all of the models I know that left MFC to work on other sites (generally SM), said that enjoyed working more on MFC that the other sites. MFC was more social, less just about the sex.. Plenty have said they make more money on SM. All of them have said the money was more consistent on SM then MFC. Almost no days of logging and making $1.50 on SM. So I am guessing part of your feeling is that great days on MFC, can leave you on feeling on top of the world, but bad weeks on MFC can be soul crushing. Not an easy trade off to make.

Ugh...SM, not for me at all!

I don't mind days when I make very little or even nothing. I hate the days I make little or nothing and in return my cs plummets which leads to making less next time. On other sites I often log in with no intention of getting naughty but simply to chat, entertain, share a pot of coffee with no worry about it harming my next session when I do intend to get down and dirty.

Now, let's stop hijacking this fascinating thread

 

[Fay_Galore]

you guys judge me on camscore instead of spending time in my room.

There are thousands of models on cams at any moment, customers won't spend 5mn in each room to know if you're worth their time and money. So yeah below a certain threshold, it serves as a filter.

god, this is depressing

 

[DaphneO]

you guys judge me on camscore instead of spending time in my room.

There are thousands of models on cams at any moment, customers won't spend 5mn in each room to know if you're worth their time and money. So yeah below a certain threshold, it serves as a filter.

god, this is depressing

as fuck.

this entire thread actually is really discouraging

 

[VeronicaChaos]

you guys judge me on camscore instead of spending time in my room.

There are thousands of models on cams at any moment, customers won't spend 5mn in each room to know if you're worth their time and money. So yeah below a certain threshold, it serves as a filter.

Yep...I understand that.

This has been enlightening. I now know there is little point in trying to repair my cs. Time spent flogging a dead horse is better spent on sites where I do earn a living.

Added as an afterthought: Why do I care so much about MFC? It was where I first began camming, it was fun, friendly, it made me a very good living and I have a soft spot for it.

I can relate to this a lot. My lowest camscore just over two years ago was 627.800. People say they don't care about it but I think people are very good at lying to themselves if that lie coincides with their own self-perception. I've been there and people really do treat you differently.

I will also say that I've gone to hell and back to make MFC work for me and for every night I cried myself to sleep, every night I thought nobody gave a shit about me, every night I racked my brain wondering WHAT I COULD POSSIBLY DO to make people like me...was worth it.

I know this is a bit of a threadjack, but this just resonated with me a lot. Do whatever you need to/want to, but it's not completely hopeless. Sometimes you have to resort to the craziest shit possible to make it but it IS possible.

In that sense, I really do agree with the all the sentiments here of having to adjust your shows, sometimes astronomically, to become more successful. I find I have very little empathy, considering my time as a camgirl, to the model that refuses to adapt.

Edit: It IS depressing in a sense, BUT! This is your chance to push yourself HARDER THAN YOU EVER HAVE. This is your time to do as much as possible and really define yourself. I'm extremely grateful for MFC being as hard as it is because I LOVE where I am right now and I would have never gotten here if it weren't for MFC being hard-as-balls. So instead of looking at it as a hopeless, depressing situation, think of MFC as this incredibly difficult BOSS beast, like a boss in a videogame, maybe not something to concur today or tomorrow, but something really challenging that will PUSH you to the limits and you ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY can kill this motherfucker.

I mean, some girls are better at boss-battles than me and had this shit long ago, but hey, I'm the sort of girl that needs to grind this level. Lots of girls are, ain't nuthin' wrong with that!

 

[LilyMarie]

I can relate to this a lot. My lowest camscore just over two years ago was 627.800.

Just wanted to say that at first I read this as 627800, as in 627,800, as in six hundred twenty seven thousand and eight hundred. Then I stared at it for 3 seconds. Then I realized.
Oh, you crazy Americans.

 

[RebeccaT]

[quote="VeronicaChaos"I know this is a bit of a threadjack, but this just resonated with me a lot. Do whatever you need to/want to, but it's not completely hopeless. Sometimes you have to resort to the craziest shit possible to make it but it IS possible.
In that sense, I really do agree with the all the sentiments here of having to adjust your shows, sometimes astronomically, to become more successful. I find I have very little empathy, considering my time as a camgirl, to the model that refuses to adapt.[/quote]

Two things...
One, you are some kind of awesome
Two, I hear what you're saying, but if I spend time rebuilding on MFC, I'm not on CB, where I do make a living. I can't afford to take a drop in income while I do it.

And yes, as has been said here, adapt and evolve which I guess I've done by adapting my way over to a different site.

(Still wanna be queen of MFC though. Why the fuck is that? Why do I care? I make money and enjoy working elsewhere. Why oh why do I want to regain my former MFC glory?)

Now, back on topic, ladies and gentleman, please.

 

[Alexandra Cole]

I read that letter as a call for empathy, not a declaration of entitlement.

I think two different debates are playing out in this thread. Most of the responses seem to be focused on the professional side of camming, but I think Ashley is talking about the human side of camming. From a professional perspective, it's pretty clear that members have no obligation to tip, and yes, it would be entitled to believe that they do. But from a human perspective, it's a different debate.

Camming’s unusual because the professional and the personal tend to overlap. More emphasis can be placed on one side than the other, but I think most probably fall somewhere on a spectrum between the distance of business strategy and the intimacy of sex. And sex is - or should be - at least a little human. As tempting as it is to compare camming to any other profession, there are few that draw this heavily on personal, sexual, and emotional resources, as well as creative and intellectual ones.

Some members value the human side of camming. In fact, I’ve seen quite a few complain here, on this forum, when a cam model is too business-minded, which they interpret to be inauthentic and manipulative. It's a catch-22. Treat it like you’re human, and you’re given reams of advice on how to treat it like a job. Treat it like a job and you’re accused of stripping sex of its humanity as a soulless, money-hungry sexbot.

I don’t think Ashleigh needs to be told that competition exists, or that she needs to switch up her game, because I think this is about members having some sense of empathy for what it’s like when a room is dead-quiet, or when hours of effort go unappreciated. Because, presumably, they linger in that room for a reason, and that reason is probably personal. I think she's just saying that what they do, or don’t do, can have an impact on how that cam model feels. If the response to that is, “It’s her job to make me want to tip her,” then that’s fine, but you don’t get to complain later when she starts to seem strategic or inauthentic. You can’t value a cam model for her humanity, and then retreat to the safety of clinical objectivity when she says that your actions have an impact on that humanity.

I think that’s what Ashleigh means when she talks about responsibility. It’s not the member’s responsibility to tip the model in a professional sense, but members do need to understand that their actions can have certain outcomes.

I don’t really have a horse in this race. I’m not bothered by lurkers and the freeloader concept doesn’t exist in my room. But I don’t need to identify with her letter or agree with her phrasing to empathize.

 

[MeekoRaccoon]

I'm new to MFC (about a week) so I hesitate to close my eyes, hold my nose and jump right into the deep end of this shark pool. But I felt like I had to comment. When I read Ashleigh's letter, I got a lump in my throat and wanted to visit her room to thank her. What I found was a genuinely wonderful, sexy woman who knows how to keep genuinely interesting discussions happening in her room. She is a stunningly wonderful person.

So, when I see people rip her letter as some kind of self-entitled rant, I'm annoyed. Maybe it's unbecoming of me, a n00b, to cast aspersions upon the great masses of MFC experts, but for what it's worth, I appreciate a wonderful person much more than a pair of T&A that is solely interested in some kind of rank.

I do think that the default MFC view is hugely damaging here. As a newbie, the default view on the home page is to rank models by cam score. This does tend to become self-reinforcing, so I feel awful for the models in this thread who have essentially "given up". To be honest, from my limited experience, I've had a much more interesting time picking a model at random (irrespective of cam score) and saying hi. I wish the MFC setup encouraged that a bit more.

Anyway, I am deeply appreciative of Ashleigh, Amber and so many others who genuinely encourage HUMAN interaction here. Yes, sex is a business and I'm not naïve enough to think that we should just sit down and sing kumbaya together, but there's a middle ground between the two extremes. Hopefully we can put a cap on this drama and encourage each other to find happiness wherever they lie in that spectrum.