On whales; their importance and associated matters

[SophiaSophia]

better for you

some guys don't even like privates

I dont see why anyone has to tear down a site they find less favorable than their preferred site

 

[Smores]

Thank goodness for that.

That doesn't add to the discussion. Give a reason to support your idea. It's not even stated what your idea is.

What people need to understand is that the Internet makes adult entertainment like the movie business. It is a consumer focused industry. How many people would go see a major motion picture at the movie theater if the cost for that was $36 per hour? The net margin on a $10 per movie ticket is much lower than a $36/hr movie ticket, but the nature of the consumer market is such that the gross and total net returns are far far far larger at a $10 ticket price.

There are models on CB whose rooms can have 10K people at a time. That's a small city. That's a built in consumer market. People should be allowed to experiment with consumer marketing and pricing for such cases. Let people make their own discoveries. Give models freedom. This is what capitalism is about. We don't need the people at CB and MFC to be central planners of a regulated marketplace, setting pricing for everyone.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

What people need to understand is that the Internet makes adult entertainment like the movie business. It is a consumer focused industry. How many people would go see a major motion picture at the movie theater if the cost for that was $36 per hour? The net margin on a $10 per movie ticket is much lower than a $36/hr movie ticket, but the nature of the consumer market is such that the gross and total net returns are far far far larger at a $10 ticket price.

Except camming is a live performance, every single time. Not a movie that, once filmed, can be replayed over and over with no additional labor from those performing in it. There's a limited number of times you can sell your live performance in a given day.

 

[Smores]

Except camming is a live performance, every single time. Not a movie that, once filmed, can be replayed over and over with no additional labor from those performing in it. There's a limited number of times you can sell your live performance in a given day.

That's a valid point. But it all comes down to money in the end.

For example:

Case #1: Group Show with 3 users at 12 tokens per minute grosses 2,160 tokens per hour, roughly $108/hr to the model.

Case #2: Group Show with 50 users at 3 tokens per minute grosses 9,000 tokens per hour, roughly $450/hr to the model.

If numbers worked out that way for a given model, would she rather make $450/hr or $108/hr?

I am not saying that every model can do that. I am saying give models pricing freedom and let them do their own experiments and - for some models - that will be a life-changing thing.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

That's a valid point. But it all comes down to money in the end.

For example:

Case #1: Group Show with 3 users at 12 tokens per minute grosses 2,160 tokens per hour, roughly $108/hr to the model.

Case #2: Group Show with 50 users at 3 tokens per minute grosses 9,000 tokens per hour, roughly $450/hr to the model.

If numbers worked out that way for a given model, would she rather make $450/hr or $108/hr?

I am not saying that every model can do that. I am saying give models pricing freedom and let them do their own experiments and - for some models - that will be a life-changing thing.

Or case #3, private show with one user at 150 tokens per minute grosses 9000 tokens per hour. It kind of seems like you are only arguing for freedom to choose your own pricing if it results in the performer choosing a lower pricing model.

And if performers want to choose their own per-minute prices, sites exist for them to do that. Are you saying that all cam sites should provide the same features and operate in the same ways? I guess I am confused, your point is that you want performers to be able to choose their own prices. And we can. If that were important to a performer, they would work on a site that allowed them to structure their pricing in whichever way.

 

[Smores]

Or case #3, private show with one user at 150 tokens per minute grosses 9000 tokens per hour. It kind of seems like you are only arguing for freedom to choose your own pricing if it results in the performer choosing a lower pricing model.

That is not right. I am all for a performer charging 200 tokens per minute if she can get that. The point is no new development would be needed on CB to support high prices. So it is not the case worth considering. On the other hand, for low price shows, CB has a hard-coded limitation of 6 tokens per minute on a group show. To support 1-to-5 tokens per minute would require new development and features. Because of that required investment, it requires justification.

And if performers want to choose their own per-minute prices, sites exist for them to do that. Are you saying that all cam sites should provide the same features and operate in the same ways? I guess I am confused, your point is that you want performers to be able to choose their own prices. And we can. If that were important to a performer, they would work on a site that allowed them to structure their pricing in whichever way.

Having the freedom to choose the site you work on is great. Competition between sites is great too. Having different features available let's the performer pick and choose.

I am most familiar with CB, and now - just barely - with MFC. It would be nice to see more price flexibility for CB group shows, for the reasons I give. The fact that other sites do or do not support such price models is not by itself a reason for CB to not support the idea. MFC - to contrast - does have any price flexibility at all. So MFC would benefit both from letting the model charge more - as well as less - for private and group shows.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

That is not right. I am all for a performer charging 200 tokens per minute if she can get that. The point is no new development would be needed on CB to support high prices. So it is not the case worth considering. On the other hand, for low price shows, CB has a hard-coded limitation of 6 tokens per minute on a group show. To support 1-to-5 tokens per minute would require new development and features. Because of that required investment, it requires justification.

So you are then arguing in favor of case #4, a performer does a show for 1 token a minute, and maybe makes $3/hr? As much as you can argue that, hey, maybe she'll get 10,000 viewers for an hour at that price and make 600k tokens!, there's also the fact that she'd have to work many many MANY hours for so little to MAYBE achieve a survivable level of success.

 

[Smores]

So you are then arguing in favor of case #4, a performer does a show for 1 token a minute, and maybe makes $12/hr? As much as you can argue that, hey, maybe she'll get 10,000 viewers for an hour at that price and make 600k tokens!, there's also the fact that she'd have to work many many MANY hours for so little to MAYBE achieve a survivable level of success.

Obviously people act in their own self interest. If a model does an experiment for group shows at a low price - and that fails to give her more money - she is going to stop doing those shows? How is anyone forcing a model to work for less money?

What part of my example was wrong? I compared:

Case #1: Group Show with 3 users at 12 tokens per minute grosses 2,160 tokens per hour, roughly $108/hr to the model.

Case #2: Group Show with 50 users at 3 tokens per minute grosses 9,000 tokens per hour, roughly $450/hr to the model.

What matters most is her gross take per hour, not her revenue per viewer? I mean, in my example above, the model making $108/hr had fantastic per-viewer revenues of 720 tokens/hr. The model making $450/hr had per-viewer revenues of only 180 tokens/hr. Which one of these models made more money?

I guess my question is what reason would you have to forbid a model from just doing the *experiment* and discovering what the result is for her? I showed clearly that there are cases where the model might make more money for her time by pricing lower. So let her discover it and make her own decision?

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Obviously people act in their own self interest. If a model does an experiment for group shows at a low price - and that fails to give her more money - she is going to stop doing those shows? How is anyone forcing a model to work for less money?

What part of my example was wrong? I compared:

Case #1: Group Show with 3 users at 12 tokens per minute grosses 2,160 tokens per hour, roughly $108/hr to the model.

Case #2: Group Show with 50 users at 3 tokens per minute grosses 9,000 tokens per hour, roughly $450/hr to the model.

What matters most is her gross take per hour, not her revenue per viewer? I mean, in my example above, the model making $108/hr had fantastic per-viewer revenues of 720 tokens/hr. The model making $450/hr had per-viewer revenues of only 180 tokens/hr. Which one of these models made more money?

I guess my question is what reason would you have to forbid a model from just doing the *experiment* and discovering what the result is for her? I showed clearly that there are cases where the model might make more money for her time by pricing lower. So let her discover it and make her own decision?

You are ignoring the part of my post about the amount of time it would take to build up a dependable following that could provide the income of a 50 user group show. Who wants to or can afford to work for $3/hr or less while they try get to that level of success? Do you wanna dildo yourself for three bucks an hour all day every day? My guess would be that it would drastically change the base of performers on the site. I am sure chaturbate has someone whose job it is to analyze these sorts of business models to figure out how they can best profit. Part of which depends on giving performers the tools so that THEY can best profit.

 

[Smores]

You are ignoring the part of my post about the amount of time it would take to build up a dependable following that could provide the income of a 50 user group show. Who wants to or can afford to work for $3/hr or less while they try get to that level of success? Do you wanna dildo yourself for three bucks an hour all day every day? My guess would be that it would drastically change the base of performers on the site. I am sure chaturbate has someone whose job it is to analyze these sorts of business models to figure out how they can best profit. Part of which depends on giving performers the tools so that THEY can best profit.

What CB told me is that the reason for the 6 token minimum is technical only. This price allows them to charge one token every 10 seconds. To support any price below six tokens requires rewriting code and the whole billing algorithm would have to shift. Maybe they would pre-charge for each minute, something like that....

I was not suggesting that you or anyone work for $3/hr for any extended period of time. If a model already has a large audience, she can do a few experiments and observe the outcomes, all with minimum financial impact, and there is the possibility for a large upside. If you are a model with a small audience, you are rolling the dice to see how low price shows perform for you. If they do not perform well, stop doing them and you return to your status quo.

I am arguing for freedom of choice in pricing. I am not trying to build financial chains for anyone. Pricing freedom should empower models not restrict them or punish them.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

What CB told me is that the reason for the 6 token minimum is technical only. This price allows them to charge one token every 10 seconds. To support any price below six tokens requires rewriting code and the whole billing algorithm would have to shift. Maybe they would pre-charge for each minute, something like that....

I was not suggesting that you or anyone work for $3/hr for any extended period of time. If a model already has a large audience, she can do a few experiments and observe the outcomes, all with minimum financial impact, and there is the possibility for a large upside. If you are a model with a small audience, you are rolling the dice to see how low price shows perform for you. If they do not perform well, stop doing them and you return to your status quo.

I am arguing for freedom of choice in pricing. I am not trying to build financial chains for anyone. Pricing freedom should empower models not restrict them or punish them.

I feel like if they wanted the freedom to price shows lower per minute, they'd be asking for it themselves. Who knows, maybe they are. I've never heard a performer complaining about not being able to charge LESS, but that's just my personal experience. But if they are out there, I am sure that they appreciate you championing their cause as well.

 

[curacing]

I think even 6 tokens a minutes is too cheap for the models time, but if that's the rate the want that's fine, not so good at a studio when they are told to cam for 6 and will be lucky to pocket 2 token a minute for themselves((

 

[Smores]

I feel like if they wanted the freedom to price shows lower per minute, they'd be asking for it themselves. Who knows, maybe they are. I've never heard a performer complaining about not being able to charge LESS, but that's just my personal experience. But if they are out there, I am sure that they appreciate you championing their cause as well.

Haha, okay I have an uphill battle I can see. But you are keeping me on top of my game, so I thank you for that.

To be honest, I wish more models would think about their product and how to maximize their earnings. My observation is that the vast majority of models simply take whatever the system offers them, and they do not experiment to optimize their results.

There is one model I visit about once or twice a month who basically does many interesting things in her show for free. So basically she is doing group shows for 600 people for effectively two or three tokens per minute (on average). That to me is painful to watch. How can someone be giving away all their value and no one - not CB, not a studio, and not the performer - is making very much from that performance.

 

[Smores]

I think even 6 tokens a minutes is too cheap for the models time, but if that's the rate the want that's fine, not so good at a studio when they are told to cam for 6 and will be lucky to pocket 2 token a minute for themselves((

For a private show I agree with you. For a group show, the math suggests there might be some surprises. See my earlier posts where a low priced group show might increase earnings per minute substantially.

 

[AmberCutie]

I thought this thread was about whales and big tips?

Surely group shows for pennies are not associated matters.

 

[Gen]

Give a reason to support your idea

No.

Just kidding. But I think most people could understand my point. When I said "thank goodness" in response to your post, it was because I think it's good that websites don't enable girls to go as low as you want them to. The reason is because I think it's bad to enable girls to sell shows for like three cents.

Also can't they just do a Crazy Ticket for one token on Chaturbate...?

What people need to understand is that the Internet makes adult entertainment like the movie business. It is a consumer focused industry. How many people would go see a major motion picture at the movie theater if the cost for that was $36 per hour? The net margin on a $10 per movie ticket is much lower than a $36/hr movie ticket, but the nature of the consumer market is such that the gross and total net returns are far far far larger at a $10 ticket price.

You realize movie theatres charge the same price regardless of movie, yeah? You'd pay the same price to see The Room as you would for Citizen Kane.

Anyway this isn't debate club but all I will say is thank goodness for MFC and their set pricing. I'm glad both them and CB have minimums, though I think CB's is way too low.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

No.

Just kidding. But I think most people could understand my point. When I said "thank goodness" in response to your post, it was because I think it's good that websites don't enable girls to go as low as you want them to. The reason is because I think it's bad to enable girls to sell shows for like three cents.

Also can't they just do a Crazy Ticket for one token on Chaturbate...?


You realize movie theatres charge the same price regardless of movie, yeah? You'd pay the same price to see The Room as you would for Citizen Kane.

Anyway this isn't debate club but all I will say is thank goodness for MFC and their set pricing. I'm glad both them and CB have minimums, though I think CB's is way too low.

I don't understand why he is even arguing some of these points. His favorite Eastern Euro women do well on 60tkn/min for privates and 80tkn/mn for true.

He is suffering from a self proclaimed "hero complex" when it comes to Eastern Euro models.