New study finds practically half of all gamers are women.

[zippypinhead]

48% of gamers are women, according to a new ESA study. This shouldn't really be surprising, since gaming is now fully mainstream as an entertainment medium. It's funny, though, that this is still such a new concept to so many that the "teenage boy" archetype is still the portrait of the typical gamer.

 

[Gen]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

I remember hearing that a few years ago, when games like Bejewelled & Farmville were really popular, and all the games on the Wii. I'd be interested to see a breakdown by console or even by game. I did a project at school on gaming and the studies we looked at showed that women made up nearly half of gamers but young men played significantly more often and for longer (which makes sense if women are playing more mobile Vs console games).

Stuff like that makes me curious about cause and effect, I'm always curious why. I'm sure there's a billion reasons but it's interesting to think about why there are differences.

 

[KayleePond]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

Here is an AWESOME article about gender in gaming!

http://www.polygon.com/features/2013/12 ... ls-allowed

I guess that at the beginning really everyone played games. It was more of a family activity initially and the split was pretty even between boys and girls. Eventually, seriously not even that long ago, the industry was kind of at risk of going under completely and they decided that they needed to make a choice. They chose boys and spent all of their money on targeting their ads specifically at them as a last ditch effort to save gaming. Obviously it worked and here we are now! So yeah, in the 90's they targeted ads at boys and then continued to target the ads at that age group of children as they aged. Obviously plenty of people out of that age range and gender were plenty interested, but that's where the marketing was. It makes me a little sad to get left behind like that, but at the same time I've been able to enjoy a thriving gaming industry and it might be because they made that choice.

Anyway, to be honest I feel like the idea that men are dramatically more into video games has sort of always been something in our heads. The ads show boys and men and they are more vocal about it, so it's always seemed like it was all about them, but girls and women have always been into games too. I wont deny that there was a shift in numbers for a while and we can all agree that video games have been male dominated for a bit, but I must agree that the idea that it's surprising that the split of men and women gamers 50/50 is just silly.

Obviously things are changing again and it is more obvious that EVERYONE is playing games, just like how it started, so now we get more diverse imagery and marketing and a more diverse selection of games, too!

I think some women like to hang on to the idea that they're an oddity in the gaming community because it makes them feel special, but I never really bought the idea that lady gamers were ever really that scarce. Games for all!

 

[goldenaye666]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

This depends on how you define a gamer. To me, playing a Candy Crush or Solitaire on a phone doesn't count. Play random online matchmaking in a PC or console game and 80-90% are still male.

 

[weirdbr]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

The definition of a 'gamer' is hard - do you consider your usual 'candy crush' player to be a gamer? Or only someone who plays several hours per week of console/PC games?

Anyway, the image of a teenager gamer being the main type of player is just something that the media likes to throw around because it's easier to use when they want to blame games for (like excessive violence), but the reality for quite a while (at least a decade or more) has been that the majority of the market are in their thirties. The number of male vs female gamers is harder to pin because women sadly tend to hide their gender when playing due to all harassment and 'women arent gamers' crap , but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a real 50/50 split.

 

[KayleePond]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

This depends on how you define a gamer. To me, playing a Candy Crush or Solitaire on a phone doesn't count. Play random online matchmaking in a PC or console game and 80-90% are still male.

Personally, I think that games are changing and though it can be tough for us to "count" certain games, it might be unfair to discount some of them. I will agree with you that those sorts of games don't really register to me as "video games", they feel like they're probably something else. I tend to say anyone is included in a group if they feel they are a part of it, but this is a bit different in this case because we're talking about finding out the percentage of people who play video games as we know them. It's a tricky thing!

I would say that 80-90% seems like an outrageously high number. Did you get that number somewhere or is that something that you perceive?

I know that I, for one, mostly dislike playing the majority of those random online matchmaking types of games. I think that they are a poor indicator of the gaming world as a whole. There are way, way, WAY more games that are offline games. I also know that in the times I've played those sorts of games I usually will NEVER talk and have a neutral name because I want to play games and not be hassled. I know that many other women feel the same way. In general, I would prefer to play offline or play with a group of friends.

I think it can just depend on the type of game, I think that men and women shouldn't be boxed in to any stereotypes about what games they "should or shouldn't" like, but I'm sure there are trends. I bet if you looked at MMORPG's you'd see the numbers get closer to 50/50 again.

Just something to think about.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

This depends on how you define a gamer. To me, playing a Candy Crush or Solitaire on a phone doesn't count. Play random online matchmaking in a PC or console game and 80-90% are still male.

I totally disagree. I've played board games, with thousands of counters, multi hundred page rule books, that took hundreds of hours, and many of the most complex computer games ever designed. I've also played and enjoyed Candy Crush. The are all games, and people who play them a lot are gamers. Some of our most famous game designers like Sid Meir, and Will Wright are increasingly moving into design more casual games. In the casual game categories woman are the majority.

While its true that demographics of Call to Duty, are still very more more male oriented, even games like WOW are starting to have a significant number of females players ~20%.

 

[zippypinhead]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

WARNING: Profanity-laced rant ahead.

The entire debate about whether or not so-called "casual" games should somehow count or not is based completely in fallacy to me. If you play games, especially if you play games as a routine form of personal entertainment, you are a gamer. It's as simple as that. I don't play online matchmaking games AT ALL, and I've probably put more hours into Angry Birds than practically anything else out there, and I take my bird-flinging skills seriously. So, I'm not a gamer because I don't like Battlefield or CoD? Because I don't worship at the altar of the NES? Bullshit. When people start spouting off about how people who don't play X type of game, or conversely only play X type of game, "aren't really gamers," I roll my eyes so hard, I pull face muscles. It's stupid, exclusivist logic designed to rationalize a false sense of belonging to a fictional in-crowd. And it's especially pathetic when this attitude and shitty rationale is used to marginalize half of a market that is so mainstream at this point that it outstrips Hollywood in annual revenues several times over.

It's time to get past this clubhouse mentality. I know that the idea of gaming as a normal behavior is new to a lot of people, but it's a reality. It's a big industry, now, and there's room for all types of players. I mean, seriously, to draw a comparison, how ridiculous would I sound if I were to say something like, "anyone who spends their time reading romance novels aren't really readers."

 

[Always_Tim]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women


(via Dork Tower)

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

lol "New study finds half of population are women."

(This is just a gentle ribbing, no offense meant though.)

 

[UncleThursday]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

I would say that 80-90% seems like an outrageously high number. Did you get that number somewhere or is that something that you perceive?

http://venturebeat.com/2013/09/19/gender-inequality/2/

The three biggest genres in retail HD console sales are shooters, action, and sports games. That the audiences for these genres were overwhelmingly male came as no surprise to me, but the gender imbalances were worse than I would have guessed:

The HD shooter audience is 78 percent male.
The HD action game audience is 80 percent male.
The HD sports game audience is 85 percent male.

All of this data represents core gamers. Hardcore gamers are referred to as “heavy use” gamers according to Nielsen’s data. They are defined as the top 10 percent of the core audience in total hours played per week. Heavy gamers in the HD console audience are an average age of 24, or four years younger than the average age for the core audience, and the average playtime among this group is 19 hours per week.

Core gamers are the console buying and game buying audience and players. Things can get muddied on the PC side in regards to who is a 'core gamer' there. MMOs and MOBAs attract a fairly large female player base, for example. And with games like League of Legends and DOTA2 being hugely popular among male and female gamers, as well as WoW on the MMO side, the percentage becomes more towards the equal side, but still not completely equal. But, the online PC shooter market is still very male dominated with games like CS:GO, etc.

However, age also needs to be taken into account. Because the younger players (we'll say 30 and under) tend to have more women showing up.

I'm 40, and I was discussing this with a friend of mine who is a year younger than me, and we both remembered the same thing... if you mentioned you played video games in high school when we went to high school (late 80s to early 90s, I graduated in 92), it was an immediate social death sentence from our peers; whether one was male or female. It was bad for guys who may say they were gamers back then, but it was 100x worse for girls who would dare mention it, especially from other girls. Gaming was seen as a kid's thing-- especially a young boys thing-- and people were expected to grow out of it by the time of high school. This was true of both genders. Females, though, would get completely ostracized from the other girls if they were saying they played video games. Guys would get made fun of, girls would get completely shunned.

You were more socially accepted being a D&D geek than you were being a video game geek in those days.

Even now, among my age group, women will very rarely mention they like games. And men will be very wary of mentioning it around prospective dates because the women of my age group still hold that social stigma, generally, towards gamers. Men who play games at 40-ish are childish, women who play games at 40-ish are weird is how many women in my age group still view things.

You still see it in younger women, too, though. Guys who play games are overgrown man-children to many women even under 30. Guys risk never getting dates with girls unless the girls bring up gaming first. The only places it is socially accepted to mention geeky hobbies, like role-playing games or video games, are conventions like DragonCon, ComicCon, etc... because it is assumed that everyone there is into those sorts of things, anyway.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

Even now, among my age group, women will very rarely mention they like games... You still see it in younger women, too, though.

A lot of females I know, myself included, avoid mentioning anything about gaming because we so often find ourselves being "geek-checked" over it. Just pointing out another reason that perhaps female gamers prefer to stay silent about their gender. Not necessarily because they are nervous to be seen as geeks, but because they are expected to prove or defend their geekiness. :geek:

 

[KyraFortune]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

I think the defending of the geek/gaming-card can be super intimidating mainly because there's so many freakin' sub-niches! I also think it's weird to assume because someone has a strong interest, that they will know random historical facts/ridiculously small details off the top of their heads. This applies to sports or any other interest too.

I love love LOVE classic games and still play them frequently. PacMan being one of them. I know off the top of my head that a guy named Billy Mitchell was the first guy to obtain a perfect clear of the game in 99'. That's just a fun fact I read one day that stuck in my head. I don't think people that don't know that dislike PacMan less.

This is a half crappy example, but you get my point lol.

On the other hand ladies that label themselves as geeks/gamers that you can totally tell are just doing it to slip into the niche kinda bug me. That would be like me marketing myself as a skinny-ethic-lady when I'm a bbw-ghostlywhite-lady. It's kinda obvious.

:shhh:

 

[Brad]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

One of my first ever posts on this board was about the fact that nearly 50% of gamers are females. I've known plenty of female gamers so I was not surprised by this.


https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/viewt ... 30#p318743

http://www.theesa.com/facts/

 

[KayleePond]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

WARNING: Profanity-laced rant ahead.

The entire debate about whether or not so-called "casual" games should somehow count or not is based completely in fallacy to me. If you play games, especially if you play games as a routine form of personal entertainment, you are a gamer. It's as simple as that. I don't play online matchmaking games AT ALL, and I've probably put more hours into Angry Birds than practically anything else out there, and I take my bird-flinging skills seriously. So, I'm not a gamer because I don't like Battlefield or CoD? Because I don't worship at the altar of the NES? Bullshit. When people start spouting off about how people who don't play X type of game, or conversely only play X type of game, "aren't really gamers," I roll my eyes so hard, I pull face muscles. It's stupid, exclusivist logic designed to rationalize a false sense of belonging to a fictional in-crowd. And it's especially pathetic when this attitude and shitty rationale is used to marginalize half of a market that is so mainstream at this point that it outstrips Hollywood in annual revenues several times over.

It's time to get past this clubhouse mentality. I know that the idea of gaming as a normal behavior is new to a lot of people, but it's a reality. It's a big industry, now, and there's room for all types of players. I mean, seriously, to draw a comparison, how ridiculous would I sound if I were to say something like, "anyone who spends their time reading romance novels aren't really readers."

I love this post so much! I have passionate discussions to this tune SO often and I really agree! I feel similarly about a lot of topics, most strongly in gaming! Thank you for this post!

I want to emphasize that I never meant to imply otherwise and just meant that I can see why it is tough sometimes. I think attitudes of exclusion are poisonous and shitty and think all games count!

 

[LilLitaRose]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

WARNING: Profanity-laced rant ahead.

The entire debate about whether or not so-called "casual" games should somehow count or not is based completely in fallacy to me. If you play games, especially if you play games as a routine form of personal entertainment, you are a gamer. It's as simple as that. I don't play online matchmaking games AT ALL, and I've probably put more hours into Angry Birds than practically anything else out there, and I take my bird-flinging skills seriously. So, I'm not a gamer because I don't like Battlefield or CoD? Because I don't worship at the altar of the NES? Bullshit. When people start spouting off about how people who don't play X type of game, or conversely only play X type of game, "aren't really gamers," I roll my eyes so hard, I pull face muscles. It's stupid, exclusivist logic designed to rationalize a false sense of belonging to a fictional in-crowd. And it's especially pathetic when this attitude and shitty rationale is used to marginalize half of a market that is so mainstream at this point that it outstrips Hollywood in annual revenues several times over.

It's time to get past this clubhouse mentality. I know that the idea of gaming as a normal behavior is new to a lot of people, but it's a reality. It's a big industry, now, and there's room for all types of players. I mean, seriously, to draw a comparison, how ridiculous would I sound if I were to say something like, "anyone who spends their time reading romance novels aren't really readers."

I appreciate this post for so many reasons. Because I too, am not a CoD/Battlefield gamer. That is quite for a few reasons, the two main are: 1. I have mild epilepsy that makes it difficult for me to handle what is going on. 2. I don't enjoy listening to teenagers curse and tell yo mama jokes.
Back in the day when I was a teen, I used to think "casuals" were what was killing gaming. But then I realized when I worked retail, that they are saving gaming.
Casuals are the reason that there are so many innovative changes to gaming. Not just on main consoles, but handheld ones. In fact, I love that more people are finding a fun game to play. I think it's great to have something that relaxes you and that is (reasonably) less dangerous than another vice such as drinking or smoking. (I don't say gambling because I do know of people whom have addictions to Farmville and etc and will spend rent money on Facebook cards).

I've been playing video games since I was 2 with my grandmother. To me, the notion that "women don't play video games" has always confused me. My grandma does. I do. My cousins did. And so did my Aunt. It kind of just made me confused when boys would act like me playing games was a lie.
I'm so happy that there's an expansion of games. I just wish developers would try to shy away from "Girl" specific games. I couldn't tell you how many times I would see a girl ask their mom for Zelda, or even METROID DS game, and their mothers would say, "No hunny, those are boy games. Here's a designer game".
It made me rage SO hard.

 

[UncleThursday]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

Back in the day when I was a teen, I used to think "casuals" were what was killing gaming. But then I realized when I worked retail, that they are saving gaming.
Casuals are the reason that there are so many innovative changes to gaming. Not just on main consoles, but handheld ones. In fact, I love that more people are finding a fun game to play. I think it's great to have something that relaxes you and that is (reasonably) less dangerous than another vice such as drinking or smoking. (I don't say gambling because I do know of people whom have addictions to Farmville and etc and will spend rent money on Facebook cards).

Without the casual market, as it were, gaming would not be as big as it is. The hardcore market cannot sustain the current gaming industry on its own, no matter how much many of them think they can. The non-hardcore market is necessary to keep the games coming, because they are the bulk of the sales.

Though, publishers and console makers have done some things that anger the core and hardcore markets over the past few years.

Microsoft's emphasis on TV/media/sports over gaming when they announced the Xbox One is a great example. Sure, the media features in the 360 spurred a lot of sales later in the console's life, so they would want to mention how the One has those features, and more... But the problem is that that market isn't the market that will be the early adopters. Anyone with a PS3 or Wii or 360 who uses them for things like NetFlix isn't going to rush out and spend $400-$500 on a new console to do the same thing. They already have a console that can do it. The fantasy football/baseball/basketball people aren't going to run out to get a console just because it can do fantasy league stuff. Those markets are later adopters. At least 3 years into the life cycle of the console before they really will consider buying a new machine. The result? The core and hardcore markets lambasted Microsoft up to this very day and the One is lagging behind the PS4, because Sony went out of their way to market it as a gaming console first, not an all around entertainment device.

Ironically, this is the exact opposite of what Sony and Microsoft did at the beginning of the 360/PS3 generation. Sony was all media media media and a high price tag and Microsoft was all games games games and media later. It took Sony years to catch up, and, truthfully, it wasn't until the PS3 was no longer $600 and the PS3 Slim was at $300 that sales even began catching up. I worked for a game review site at the time and I didn't even consider buying a PS3 until the price of the Slim was $300-- so that says something right there. I am a core gamer and at the time a hardcore gamer, and I wouldn't spend $600 on the PS3. That Microsoft took the same route Sony did last gen when announcing the Xbox One shows a complete disconnect of the executives at Microsoft about what makes a console sell, especially early on.

Core and hardcore gamers are the early adopters. Everyone else comes later.

Publishers have also done things to 'try to appeal to a more mainstream audience' with game franchises that were doing fine in their own way. Much of this has to do with tacking on unnecessary multiplayer because of how big CoD is (and CoD is not big because of just hardcore or even core gamers, tons of more casual players buy it every year). SquareEnix's decision to have multiplayer in Tomb Raider is a prime example of this. Tomb Raider fans didn't want multiplayer deathmatch. And the game suffered because of it. While, overall, still a very good game, the additional multiplayer was unpopular, unneeded and generally shunned by everyone with the game. The thought that a bunch of the DLC for it would end up being new multiplayer maps and such made people not buy most of the DLC. EA did similar with Dead Space 2. Other publishers have been doing similar as well.

While publishers and console makers have to keep things open for a more casual game buying audience, they also have to realize the core and hardcore markets are the early adopters of games and consoles. It's a tough balance, but everyone seems to be fucking it up at every given chance.

 

[DDuckworth]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

WARNING: Profanity-laced rant ahead.

The entire debate about whether or not so-called "casual" games should somehow count or not is based completely in fallacy to me. If you play games, especially if you play games as a routine form of personal entertainment, you are a gamer. It's as simple as that. I don't play online matchmaking games AT ALL, and I've probably put more hours into Angry Birds than practically anything else out there, and I take my bird-flinging skills seriously. So, I'm not a gamer because I don't like Battlefield or CoD? Because I don't worship at the altar of the NES? Bullshit. When people start spouting off about how people who don't play X type of game, or conversely only play X type of game, "aren't really gamers," I roll my eyes so hard, I pull face muscles. It's stupid, exclusivist logic designed to rationalize a false sense of belonging to a fictional in-crowd. And it's especially pathetic when this attitude and shitty rationale is used to marginalize half of a market that is so mainstream at this point that it outstrips Hollywood in annual revenues several times over.

It's time to get past this clubhouse mentality. I know that the idea of gaming as a normal behavior is new to a lot of people, but it's a reality. It's a big industry, now, and there's room for all types of players. I mean, seriously, to draw a comparison, how ridiculous would I sound if I were to say something like, "anyone who spends their time reading romance novels aren't really readers."

I love this post so much! I have passionate discussions to this tune SO often and I really agree! I feel similarly about a lot of topics, most strongly in gaming! Thank you for this post!

I want to emphasize that I never meant to imply otherwise and just meant that I can see why it is tough sometimes. I think attitudes of exclusion are poisonous and shitty and think all games count!

I agree many times and even possibly this time, exclusion is poisonous. But most of the time, exclusion comes from a good reason that just ends up bad. The reason many gamers consider "casual gamers" or "casuls" for short, to be non-gamers is so that they can easily self-identify. If you walk up to a group of people you don't know, and you tell them you are a gamer, they may start trying to discuss final fantasy, call of duty, asscreed, or what have you - and you may sit there wide eyed and clueless. Now, these people probably don't have a problem with your casual gaming, but they'll quickly realize you weren't talking about the same thing they were. It's similar in music, if you say you love rock music, but are REALLY talking about indie music, then you aren't really a listener of rock. It's just sort of a sub-category that needs defining for social circles, not meant to be a way of excluding anyone. Unfortunately though, there are times where exclusion does become the end product of such categorizations. While I am fine to fight against that, I have no problem with using the labels to help gain a better understanding of what someone is talking about.

At the end of the day we can't lump everything into one category, even me placing RPGs, Shooters, and Action games in the same group wouldn't make much sense. I see where you're coming from, but these labels exist for a valid reason.

 

[KayleePond]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

WARNING: Profanity-laced rant ahead.

The entire debate about whether or not so-called "casual" games should somehow count or not is based completely in fallacy to me. If you play games, especially if you play games as a routine form of personal entertainment, you are a gamer. It's as simple as that. I don't play online matchmaking games AT ALL, and I've probably put more hours into Angry Birds than practically anything else out there, and I take my bird-flinging skills seriously. So, I'm not a gamer because I don't like Battlefield or CoD? Because I don't worship at the altar of the NES? Bullshit. When people start spouting off about how people who don't play X type of game, or conversely only play X type of game, "aren't really gamers," I roll my eyes so hard, I pull face muscles. It's stupid, exclusivist logic designed to rationalize a false sense of belonging to a fictional in-crowd. And it's especially pathetic when this attitude and shitty rationale is used to marginalize half of a market that is so mainstream at this point that it outstrips Hollywood in annual revenues several times over.

It's time to get past this clubhouse mentality. I know that the idea of gaming as a normal behavior is new to a lot of people, but it's a reality. It's a big industry, now, and there's room for all types of players. I mean, seriously, to draw a comparison, how ridiculous would I sound if I were to say something like, "anyone who spends their time reading romance novels aren't really readers."

I love this post so much! I have passionate discussions to this tune SO often and I really agree! I feel similarly about a lot of topics, most strongly in gaming! Thank you for this post!

I want to emphasize that I never meant to imply otherwise and just meant that I can see why it is tough sometimes. I think attitudes of exclusion are poisonous and shitty and think all games count!

I agree many times and even possibly this time, exclusion is poisonous. But most of the time, exclusion comes from a good reason that just ends up bad. The reason many gamers consider "casual gamers" or "casuls" for short, to be non-gamers is so that they can easily self-identify. If you walk up to a group of people you don't know, and you tell them you are a gamer, they may start trying to discuss final fantasy, call of duty, asscreed, or what have you - and you may sit there wide eyed and clueless. Now, these people probably don't have a problem with your casual gaming, but they'll quickly realize you weren't talking about the same thing they were. It's similar in music, if you say you love rock music, but are REALLY talking about indie music, then you aren't really a listener of rock. It's just sort of a sub-category that needs defining for social circles, not meant to be a way of excluding anyone. Unfortunately though, there are times where exclusion does become the end product of such categorizations. While I am fine to fight against that, I have no problem with using the labels to help gain a better understanding of what someone is talking about.

At the end of the day we can't lump everything into one category, even me placing RPGs, Shooters, and Action games in the same group wouldn't make much sense. I see where you're coming from, but these labels exist for a valid reason.

I would say that in my lifetime of gaming I have seriously never come across this issue. (I've never, ever heard anyone refer to casual gamers as "casuals" either.) It seems like it would only take a modicum of conversation or social skills to overcome the issue you're worried about. I think that people who are, like, really into Bejeweled and not much else game-wise are probably unlikely to bring it up in the way that you described and generally people are going to figure out what they mean just fine. Like contextually someone would bring up games like Candy Crush in a different way than they would Infamous: Second Son, all it would take is mere moments of conversation for things to be quite clear. The same is true for your music example. What you're describing sounds like an unrealistic situation to me since generally people are really quite good at expressing the difference.

I think that people create this idea in their heads that attitudes of exclusion are needed because they want to feel justified, but I still feel that it is unnecessary. Obviously categories exist but categorization is not the same as exclusion. I think that categorization is fine because everyone is still included, which is awesome. You say that we can't place everything into one category but we CAN and we do, it's called "Video Games", man. And yes, then there are categories beneath that and then more beneath that and that is FINE. I just don't get why we can have all of these other categories but then suddenly we have to draw the line at fucking Candy Crush? Like all the rest is cool but there's no more room for another category under the umbrella? THAT is the part that makes no sense. Games in different genres can be dramatically different from each other; Day of the Tentacle, Gone Home, Viva Pinata, Farcry, Eden, Guitar Hero, Pro Bass Fishing 2003, Burger Time, Halo, DDR, Dead Space just IMAGINE all of those games and how different some of them are from each other, but they are ALL video games and no one is likely to argue that.

I just think the idea of leaving something out that is clearly also a video game just because it doesn't fit "hardcore gamers'" ideas about gaming, is silly and bad for the gaming industry and community. In this particular instance we are talking about finding a number related to ALL video games, so it should certainly be included.

 

[InactiveModel21353]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

A lot of females I know, myself included, avoid mentioning anything about gaming because we so often find ourselves being "geek-checked" over it. Just pointing out another reason that perhaps female gamers prefer to stay silent about their gender. Not necessarily because they are nervous to be seen as geeks, but because they are expected to prove or defend their geekiness. :geek:

I've run into this, but I don't know if it's because I'm a female or just because it's the norm to do. Asked random facts, what games I specifically like and what the most recent games I've played are. If I don't know the facts, or the person disagrees strongly with my gaming choices, or I haven't played one of the most recent, popular games, then I shouldn't consider myself a "gamer", I'm told.

Which I think is complete crap. If I'm passionate about a specific game whether it's Kingdom Hearts or Tetris, I think that that should count. I may not be able to play games for hours on end anymore like I could as a teenager, but I'm still just as passionate about those games as I was back then. So yes I play the games I love casually, but that doesn't make me any less of a gamer.

 

[DDuckworth]

Re: New study finds practically half of all gamers are women

WARNING: Profanity-laced rant ahead.

The entire debate about whether or not so-called "casual" games should somehow count or not is based completely in fallacy to me. If you play games, especially if you play games as a routine form of personal entertainment, you are a gamer. It's as simple as that. I don't play online matchmaking games AT ALL, and I've probably put more hours into Angry Birds than practically anything else out there, and I take my bird-flinging skills seriously. So, I'm not a gamer because I don't like Battlefield or CoD? Because I don't worship at the altar of the NES? Bullshit. When people start spouting off about how people who don't play X type of game, or conversely only play X type of game, "aren't really gamers," I roll my eyes so hard, I pull face muscles. It's stupid, exclusivist logic designed to rationalize a false sense of belonging to a fictional in-crowd. And it's especially pathetic when this attitude and shitty rationale is used to marginalize half of a market that is so mainstream at this point that it outstrips Hollywood in annual revenues several times over.

It's time to get past this clubhouse mentality. I know that the idea of gaming as a normal behavior is new to a lot of people, but it's a reality. It's a big industry, now, and there's room for all types of players. I mean, seriously, to draw a comparison, how ridiculous would I sound if I were to say something like, "anyone who spends their time reading romance novels aren't really readers."

I love this post so much! I have passionate discussions to this tune SO often and I really agree! I feel similarly about a lot of topics, most strongly in gaming! Thank you for this post!

I want to emphasize that I never meant to imply otherwise and just meant that I can see why it is tough sometimes. I think attitudes of exclusion are poisonous and shitty and think all games count!

I agree many times and even possibly this time, exclusion is poisonous. But most of the time, exclusion comes from a good reason that just ends up bad. The reason many gamers consider "casual gamers" or "casuls" for short, to be non-gamers is so that they can easily self-identify. If you walk up to a group of people you don't know, and you tell them you are a gamer, they may start trying to discuss final fantasy, call of duty, asscreed, or what have you - and you may sit there wide eyed and clueless. Now, these people probably don't have a problem with your casual gaming, but they'll quickly realize you weren't talking about the same thing they were. It's similar in music, if you say you love rock music, but are REALLY talking about indie music, then you aren't really a listener of rock. It's just sort of a sub-category that needs defining for social circles, not meant to be a way of excluding anyone. Unfortunately though, there are times where exclusion does become the end product of such categorizations. While I am fine to fight against that, I have no problem with using the labels to help gain a better understanding of what someone is talking about.

At the end of the day we can't lump everything into one category, even me placing RPGs, Shooters, and Action games in the same group wouldn't make much sense. I see where you're coming from, but these labels exist for a valid reason.

I'm not saying we should leave any games out as being called games or gamers, but defining casual gamers is definitely something I agree with as a seperate category entirely. Take a look at this article http://www.computerandvideogames.com/47 ... -the-core/

Miyamoto hits the nail on the head when he discusses how casual gamers are "passive" in their entertainment, while hardcore gamers seek a challenge. To me, that is the key difference between what we are discussing here.

I mentioned that it "starts with a good reason and ends up being bad" meaning that a group of people think it's a good idea, but then as you pointed out; it turns out to be unnecessary to do. I was just explaining how I think these things get started, not as a good reason to keep them around.

Also on a side note, it's "casuls" not "casuals" when referring to gamers as such, the incorrect spelling was on purpose. Can't really help you haven't heard it, I've heard it mostly at conventions or game stores.

Some message board references:

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/the-j ... 452992407/
http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1347274


Anyways I'm not justifying any of this, I'm just trying to explain how it came to be.