Miss Vancouver finalist banned for being born male

[Teagan]

Personally i dont care what she thinks she is, believes she was born as, or wants to be. You can not debate the fact of being born a male or female unless youre a hermaphrodite. She was born a male. Thats against the rules of entering. You can call it unfair all you want, but it doesnt matter.
I know if i ran a contest and set forth rules I would want them to be followed. I put them there for whatever reason, and i expect the people who enter to follow them. If you find they didnt, well then you kick them out. Its pretty simple.
The rules of this contest were clear cut, born a female, she wasnt born one, so out she goes. It doesnt matter how unfair or stupid some people may see it. Many other feel its dumb and thats why there are so many contests to include those who are outted in many others.
Contests all over the world have stupid rules sometimes. Miss USA cant be married for instance. You have to go for Mrs USA if you are for example. Is Miss USA unfair for the girls who are married, maybe, but those are the rules.
Legally yes she may be a woman, and thats fine for everything else, but for contests where the rules state you have to be born a female, shes outta luck. It may be her dream to win, but the rules say she cant ever win.
It may be my dream to be in the NBA but i wasnt born a 7 foot tall man, them the brakes.

 

[Jupiter551]

None of which changes the fact that it may (or may not) be considered a matter of discrimination.

So far I don't think anyone's responded to my question of how you would see this if non-white contestants weren't allowed. Would that still just be 'unfair'? Or would it be discriminatory?

 

[mynameisbob84]

I think discriminating against a race is a different kettle of fish. The contest calls for women to be judged by a panel (that's how these things work, right?). It's a contest for women. Telling a black woman she couldn't enter on the grounds that she is not white would clearly be wrong. Telling someone they can't enter on the grounds that they are not a woman (even if plastic surgery suggests otherwise) is understandable (if not particularly progressive).
Hypothetical: A person is born a woman but undergoes a sex change and becomes a man (that's a thing, right?). They decide they want to enter Miss Vancouver on the grounds that they were born a woman. Should they be allowed?

 

[Shaun__]

Hypothetical: A person is born a woman but undergoes a sex change and becomes a man (that's a thing, right?). They decide they want to enter Miss Vancouver on the grounds that they were born a woman. Should they be allowed?

I think they should be allowed to, but I doubt they would really want to if they think of themselves as a man.

 

[Jupiter551]

I think discriminating against a race is a different kettle of fish. The contest calls for women to be judged by a panel (that's how these things work, right?). It's a contest for women. Telling a black woman she couldn't enter on the grounds that she is not white would clearly be wrong. Telling someone they can't enter on the grounds that they are not a woman (even if plastic surgery suggests otherwise) is understandable (if not particularly progressive).
Hypothetical: A person is born a woman but undergoes a sex change and becomes a man (that's a thing, right?). They decide they want to enter Miss Vancouver on the grounds that they were born a woman. Should they be allowed?

It's discrimination because under the law, they're considered a woman. I used to work in passports, probably THE most secure and important identification document a general citizen can ever hope to attain. If a passport says a post-op transexual is female, the passport is genuine and the documentation to support it is genuine, then by every legal sense they are female.
To answer your question no, they should fall outside the rules if they are legally male, but technically might be allowed (I dunno what other rules govern entrance), I suspect MU would cook something up to keep out the 'undesirables'.

 

[Bocefish]

FFS It's a beauty pageant! Whoever runs a pageant contest can set their own rules. If you think it's discriminatory, run your own pageant. Nobody forced her to sign-up or lie.

 

[Bocefish]

It may be my dream to be in the NBA but i wasnt born a 7 foot tall man, them the brakes.

Great analogy, but actually...

Those are the brakes.

 

[Bocefish]

For some reason... the rule of being 'naturally born female' made me wonder if there is some other way of being born female.

 

[RogueWarrior]

None of which changes the fact that it may (or may not) be considered a matter of discrimination.

So far I don't think anyone's responded to my question of how you would see this if non-white contestants weren't allowed. Would that still just be 'unfair'? Or would it be discriminatory?

It would be fine if non-white contestants were barred from the Miss White Bread Cracker competition. Them's the rules, you gotta be a lily white cracker to enter. This the Miss whatever pageant, not the Mr./Miss/Mrs./Transgendered/Transexual/all-comers pageant.

Apparently I'm unable to get assistance from the NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People). I'm colored. But my color is not of a dark enough hue to qualify.

For the love of all that is good and right, this world is not all butterflies and cupcakes. This PC bullshit has gotten totally out of control. No winners. No losers. Everybody gets a piece of shit participation trophy and everyone goes home happy without learning a damn thing about how things work in the real world. The chick was born a dude (biologically). Fact. This competition is for persons born female. Fact. It's not discrimination on any level whatsoever.

Possibly incoherent rant over. Carry on.............

 

[JoleneBrody]

None of which changes the fact that it may (or may not) be considered a matter of discrimination.

So far I don't think anyone's responded to my question of how you would see this if non-white contestants weren't allowed. Would that still just be 'unfair'? Or would it be discriminatory?

It would be fine if non-white contestants were barred from the Miss White Bread Cracker competition. Them's the rules, you gotta be a lily white cracker to enter. This the Miss whatever pageant, not the Mr./Miss/Mrs./Transgendered/Transexual/all-comers pageant.

Apparently I'm unable to get assistance from the NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People). I'm colored. But my color is not of a dark enough hue to qualify.

For the love of all that is good and right, this world is not all butterflies and cupcakes. This PC bullshit has gotten totally out of control. No winners. No losers. Everybody gets a piece of shit participation trophy and everyone goes home happy without learning a damn thing about how things work in the real world. The chick was born a dude (biologically). Fact. This competition is for persons born female. Fact. It's not discrimination on any level whatsoever.

Possibly incoherent rant over. Carry on.............

I stood up and clapped! A tear has come to my eye. That was seriously beautiful.

 

[Bocefish]

If I knew it was that easy to get a standing ovation and bring a tear to Jo-Jo's eyes...

Back to the non-pc cave to decipher this new information and devise another plan.

 

[Bocefish]

Well... I thought it was funny.

 

[JoleneBrody]

Well... I thought it was funny.

It was! AFTER I was done drooling over Raylon Givens on streaming video. :lol:
I'm ready, lay it on me boce baby!

 

[Bocefish]

Well... I thought it was funny.

It was! AFTER I was done drooling over Raylon Givens on streaming video. :lol:
I'm ready, lay it on me boce baby!

Sure... I see how it is now. Fine! Be that way.

 

[Jupiter551]

This PC bullshit has gotten totally out of control. No winners. No losers. Everybody gets a piece of shit participation trophy and everyone goes home happy without learning a damn thing about how things work in the real world.

Which PC bullshit? If you mean 'politically correct', there's nothing politically correct about standing up for the rights of an almost ostracised minority in a conservative country like the US - that's more like PS (political suicide).

If you want to defend a multinational corporation like Miss Universe inc, Donald Trump, and NBC for using a rule technicality to discriminate because they're embarrassed a tranny might have become Miss Universe then be my guest, but no one was asking how the world works or being given a participation trophy - just to compete as she had been before personal info was leaked.

Also just think about what the words 'politically correct' really mean; they get thrown around a lot these days, was the black civil rights movement politically correct? Hell no, it was about as far from it as possible. Politically correct means what a politician would say or do whether or not they really mean it. Politicians don't champion minorities. Not successful ones, and especially not minorities that don't conform to a conservative christian agenda.

No offense, but saying 'this PC bullshit has gotten out of control' was a cliche 10 years ago. It's a phrase without meaning because 'PC' has just come to stand as a pejorative term for the rights of anything not in line with conservative middle-class christian values.

 

[Just Me]

I think discriminating against a race is a different kettle of fish. The contest calls for women to be judged by a panel (that's how these things work, right?). It's a contest for women. Telling a black woman she couldn't enter on the grounds that she is not white would clearly be wrong. Telling someone they can't enter on the grounds that they are not a woman (even if plastic surgery suggests otherwise) is understandable (if not particularly progressive).
Hypothetical: A person is born a woman but undergoes a sex change and becomes a man (that's a thing, right?). They decide they want to enter Miss Vancouver on the grounds that they were born a woman. Should they be allowed?

It's discrimination because under the law, they're considered a woman. I used to work in passports, probably THE most secure and important identification document a general citizen can ever hope to attain. If a passport says a post-op transexual is female, the passport is genuine and the documentation to support it is genuine, then by every legal sense they are female.
To answer your question no, they should fall outside the rules if they are legally male, but technically might be allowed (I dunno what other rules govern entrance), I suspect MU would cook something up to keep out the 'undesirables'.

It is not legally discrimination. In the USA, protected classes only extend to employment, housing, and public accommodations. Currently there is no federal law that designates transsexual or transgender as a protected class. This is another instance where it is a state by state basis on whether or not they include transsexual or transgender in legislation that prohibit discrimination based on gender identity. There are many states and local jurisdictions that do have provisions but again it only protects from discrimination in employment, housing, and public accommodations.

 

[Just Me]

None of which changes the fact that it may (or may not) be considered a matter of discrimination.

So far I don't think anyone's responded to my question of how you would see this if non-white contestants weren't allowed. Would that still just be 'unfair'? Or would it be discriminatory?

It would certainly be discriminatory, but not necessarily illegal discrimination. While I am not aware of any that that deny non-white contestants (I am sure there must be some out there) there is at least one that does the opposite http://www.missblackusa.org/

MFC does not allow men. Now I have not read all the models rules or if they are even available for me to read, but I am pretty sure MFC would be within their rights to limit models to natural born women as well.

 

[RogueWarrior]

I will now respond to your post, randomly and at times out of context.

No offense,

Hay-ull no. None taken. A good discussion is always welcome. No offense meant on my part either. We just disagree.

... be my guest....

Gladly. Perhaps in January during the Aussie open? How far away are you from Melbourne?

If you want to defend a multinational corporation like Miss Universe inc, Donald Trump, and NBC

Donald Truump and NBC. Quite strange bedfellows indeed.

Which PC bullshit? If you mean 'politically correct', there's nothing politically correct about standing up for the rights of an almost ostracised minority in a conservative country like the US - that's more like PS (political suicide).

Oh, yeah, that's where my post went a bit off into the incoherent rambling. Not really congruent to the argument. Just kinda went off on a rabbit trail there. Seemed like a good idea at the time.

Also just think about what the words 'politically correct' really mean; they get thrown around a lot these days, was the black civil rights movement politically correct? Hell no, it was about as far from it as possible. Politically correct means what a politician would say or do whether or not they really mean it. Politicians don't champion minorities. Not successful ones, and especially not minorities that don't conform to a conservative christian agenda.

No offense, but saying 'this PC bullshit has gotten out of control' was a cliche 10 years ago. It's a phrase without meaning because 'PC' has just come to stand as a pejorative term for the rights of anything not in line with conservative middle-class christian values.

Guilty as charged. Throwing the PC thing around, twisting it to mean what I want it to. Really what I wanted to convey is that this is a private enterprise (multi-billion dollar or not) and can set the rules as they see fit. Maybe to avoid embarrassment, maybe not. Doesn't really matter. "Leaked" or not, once the information became public, they really had no choice but to enforce the rules rather than subject themselves bigger headaches down the line.

There are qualifications for all kinds of competitions. Age limits, gender specifications (see track and field), et al. This isn't about discrimination as much as it is about enforcing the rules.

 

[Jupiter551]

... be my guest....

Gladly. Perhaps in January during the Aussie open? How far away are you from Melbourne?

between 1050(1700km) and 850(1370km) miles depending if you go by road or aircraft

 

[RogueWarrior]

... be my guest....

Gladly. Perhaps in January during the Aussie open? How far away are you from Melbourne?

between 1050(1700km) and 850(1370km) miles depending if you go by road or aircraft

Sorry, just not gonna work out for me. If I'm gonna make the trip I need to be closer to Melbourne. But thanks for the offer. :-D

 

[LadyLuna]

I'm a little late to the party, but I would like to say:

My guess was B because A looked suspiciously like a picture of my pussy that I took myself... (if it was, I applaud your choice and thank you, if it wasn't, apologies for the mistake, and no, I don't expect you to reveal whose pussy you used.)

Also, while I find it discriminatory, I don't necessarily think all discrimination are bad. Example: it's discriminatory that criminals aren't allowed to buy weapons. I'm very very glad this discrimination is in place!

I think that private anything and public contests should have the right to set whatever rules they want. To be clear here- I don't agree with women trying to sue a private men's club, school, or college to attempt to get in. It's their right to exclude women from an area of their life if they so wish. Their loss, but still their right. And I do agree that the wording of that rule could be a bit better- would test-tube girls not be allowed to enter?

 

[Jupiter551]

I'm a little late to the party, but I would like to say:

My guess was B because A looked suspiciously like a picture of my pussy that I took myself... (if it was, I applaud your choice and thank you, if it wasn't, apologies for the mistake, and no, I don't expect you to reveal whose pussy you used.)

Also, while I find it discriminatory, I don't necessarily think all discrimination are bad. Example: it's discriminatory that criminals aren't allowed to buy weapons. I'm very very glad this discrimination is in place!

I think that private anything and public contests should have the right to set whatever rules they want. To be clear here- I don't agree with women trying to sue a private men's club, school, or college to attempt to get in. It's their right to exclude women from an area of their life if they so wish. Their loss, but still their right. And I do agree that the wording of that rule could be a bit better- would test-tube girls not be allowed to enter?

No idea whose pussy I used, someone on google images I should have gone with a giant, lippy, hairy one to trick people instead I chose a nice one

It's not that easy to find a picture of a vagina on the internet in a roughly "neutral" position that isn't being fingered, licked, fucked, sucked, or otherwise molested, and isn't some medical archive shot of a hairy vagina that's just given birth.

 

[WickedTouch]

..... does anyone recall the "007 Bond girl" that was a "remanufactured" male? It was back in Sean Connery days . She was a stunner for sure. I believe after it all blew over, she ended up marrying some Greek rich guy.

Yeah, she was very feminine and convincing... she was a "girl" called Caroline Cossey, who modelled under the name Tula. She had been a topless model in the UK, appearing in The Sun on Page 3 for quite a few years in the 1970's, had a bit part in "For Your Eyes Only" with Roger Moore and a clutch of TV shows as well. She was also supposed to have been the first transgendered model to pose for Playboy. No one knew about her being a transgender female till she had to get the courts involved when she was trying to get married in the UK in the 1990's and it was spread all over the UK press as it was not allowed here prior to the law change in 2004. I had forgotten about that one.

 

[Jupiter551]

Asked about her dating life, Cossey replied, "I'm afraid I went a little wild". She told tabloids she had a romance with Des Lynam (British TV personality), though Lynam says he does not recall it.

LOL doesn't recall it :lol: