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Linda Lovelace Is Not a Porn Star

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An article on why Linda Lovelace was never a true porn star and how her books and TV appearances shaped people's view toward the adult industry, written by a male porn star.

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/cult ... stars.html

August 16, 2013
Linda Lovelace Is Not a Porn Star
The real world of porn has nothing to do with her experience in Deep Throat.


While it remains to be seen how much money moviegoers will spend on the recently released Lovelace, porn stars are definitely still paying the price for Linda Lovelace’s tale of redemption. I know, because I’m one, and Lovelace has complicated my life in obvious and concrete ways.
Let me explain: In addition to being a porn star and a writer, I regularly give talks on sexuality, pornography, and culture. In late 2012, a university near Boston expressed interest in hiring me for a lecture. During negotiations, however, my contact—the director of the campus LGBT organization—suddenly turned from enthusiastic to hesitant. He’d spoken to a colleague who oversaw health education for the school, and she’d offered the following admonition: “Tell [Conner] to read Linda Lovelace’s book Ordeal ... about the sexual enslavement and ‘pimping’ of women in the porn industry. Until that is understood and addressed by this multi-billion dollar industry, it is difficult to give it any voice.”
“We at least want to feel comfortable in that we’re pretty much on the same page,” the director added in an email, “with the people we bring in, in terms of educational safety issues. I’m sure you can appreciate that.”
I assured him that I was well aware of the feminist critiques (and defenses of) porn and that I was happy to engage in discussions with students about them. More to the point, as a working porn actor, I’ve appeared in around 150 adult films, so I knew that I had more knowledge about the porn world than could be guessed at from a book. But none of those qualifications, it seemed, mattered as much as Linda Lovelace’s shadow. My experience, I was being told—indeed, the experience of everyone in porn—was just like hers. The invitation was withdrawn.
Linda Lovelace (née Linda Boreman) is one of the most familiar names from the porn world. Although her career was brief, she starred in the 1972 smash hit Deep Throat, which would bring her enduring fame. Shortly after, she left the industry to become a leading anti-porn activist throughout the 1980s and ‘90s. Though she died in 2002, Lovelace’s portrait of an industry rife with abuse and exploitation has lived on in the collective consciousness.
With the release of Rob Epstein and Jeffrey Friedman’s new biopic, Lovelace, her story is poised again to be taken seriously as representative of what it’s like to work in the porn. Because of all of my involvement with the porn world—including my own films, my interactions with hundreds of performers, my years of research into sex work and related activism—I have to state, unequivocally: Linda Lovelace should not be considered a “porn star” anymore. Her narrative is so far removed from what is currently the typical porn star’s experience in this country that using that title to describe her isn’t just meaningless but, worse, contributes to dangerous misunderstandings about porn performers today.
Lovelace is beautifully shot, well-performed, and at times touching, but, as with all versions of the Lovelace story, it ends with a troublesome triumph: Lovelace decrying her porn experience, first on a re-created talk show, then in a closing title just before the credits. Following her relatively brief film career in the 1970s, Lovelace wrote two anti-porn books explaining that she’d been forced into the business. She joined with Women Against Pornography to dissect the abuse they viewed as inherent in the industry, and generally crusaded against the genre.
The first problem with taking this narrative as characteristic is that, unlike Lovelace, most people now aren’t led into porn by manipulative spouses or other terrible circumstances. Although the myth of “falling into porn” persists, it just doesn’t happen for a majority of performers anymore. Quite the contrary: Getting a start in porn these days generally takes sending in applications to studios or at least the willingness to film it yourself and post it to the Internet.
I’ve wanted to be in porn since middle school, when I understood that performers made each other and audiences feel good for money. It seemed like an honest use of time; plus, all the popular kids thought it was cool. When I was old enough to do it, I waited for over a decade, thinking about my reasons for wanting to participate before I actually decided I was ready.
All the women in porn I know have similar stories. More representative than Lovelace are contemporary and prolific performers like Sovereign Syre. “Every step of the way was a conscious transition,” she told me. Her “erotic journey” began when, after leaving grad school to write a novel, she started appearing on an online modeling site and progressed to porn slowly and thoughtfully from there.

The career path for women in porn has changed to allow this sort of careful consideration since Lovelace’s time, but these improvements are in large part due to women like Sovereign Syre, not people who hold anti-porn sentiments. “It’s one of the few jobs where women are empowered to be financially and emotionally independent and that terrifies people,” Syre said.
Seen in this light, porn is far more consciously chosen than many other jobs. Although stable careers in finance, technology, etc. are often encouraged by cultural pressure and expectation, porn—a profession that potentially carries so much social stigma—requires serious decision-making.
Ordeal and Lovelace’s subsequent anti-porn crusade were aimed at uncovering the “truth” behind porn. The structure of Lovelace (unintentionally, I believe) supports this misguided search for a seedy reality behind the glamour. In the film, the exciting porn experience is shown first (on-set laughter! huge audiences! meetings with celebrities!), and then the film repeats the entire sequence, showing what was really going on (coercion and abuse of Lovelace by her husband, Chuck Traynor, hotel-room rapes, parental rejection). It’s an alluring structure, one also put forth by the documentary The Real Linda Lovelace, released shortly after Lovelace’s death in 2001.
It’s not wrong to see Linda Lovelace as a person who overcame hardship and was a survivor of abuse. There are, to be sure, current porn performers who have suffered abuse as well. Taking those stories to be the “real” picture of the porn world, however, is a broad mischaracterization. The big secret about the porn world isn’t that there’s hidden abuse and coercion everywhere; the big secret is that there is no big secret.
Making porn is fun some days, not fun others. Sometimes you feel you get paid what you’re owed, sometimes you don’t. Some studios are filled with attentive and nice people, some are filled with irresponsible and unresponsive ones. In other words, in many respects, it’s like any other job. In fact, if there is a big difference between porn and other work, it’s that so many people outside the industry have been taught to believe that there must be something sinister happening within it.
Without going into all the reasons why societies demonize, legislate, and control sex, it’s clear that the stigma created by the sex-negative elements of our culture can create real problems for performers. Though we may be aware of what we’re doing when we get into the business, we may not be able to foresee the societally-imposed difficulties that await us once we’re in porn, including future (baseless) job discrimination, misapprehensions in personal relationships, and more.
Of course, these are problems created not by porn itself, but by our society’s cluttered view of sex. It doesn’t help that these misunderstandings are seized on by religious fundamentalists, social conservatives, anti-porn liberals, certain feminists, and others for power. These are the same groups that embraced Lovelace’s anti-porn stance while she was alive and continue to exploit her complicated humanity and specific story of abuse after her death.
But the hundreds of well-adjusted and happy porn stars I’ve interacted with and the tens of thousands of porn stars who live less sensationalized lives than Lovelace are testament to the fact that her story is not ours. Porn is mostly populated by people who aren’t victims, who have made thoughtful choices, and who won’t be climaxing with regret.

I did watch the movie and it painted the whole porn industry as a terrible, abusive, dark, disgusting place. I tend to not agree with that. I know that the porn industry, just like any industry has its downfalls. The industry has changed slightly since LL was in it. It is more regulated, at least in the US, so I think it has changed for the better. Any thoughts?
 
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Linda Lovelace wasn't just in 1 film was she? If her experience was negative and left her warring against the industry there's no reason for some 'writer' to try to discredit her. Her feelings and experiences are valid.
 
MercedesLynn said:
“It’s one of the few jobs where women are empowered to be financially and emotionally independent and that terrifies people,” Syre said.
lmao Was already hard to take the article seriously because it was written by a male porn star but that line was hilarious. Like, how delusional do you have to be to believe that?
 
She was in a porn movie and she was a star. I didn't know that there were other requirements.

PS: You might want to use the quote function when quoting. Mentioning the author's name in the body of the post is also considered good manners, especially if you are quoting the whole article, which is not.
 
JickyJuly said:
Linda Lovelace wasn't just in 1 film was she? If her experience was negative and left her warring against the industry there's no reason for some 'writer' to try to discredit her. Her feelings and experiences are valid.

According to the Wiki she appeared in few films, including Dog Fucker, from 1971 to 1974 and also did Playboy and another nude magazine. But comparatively speaking didn't do a lot of films, financially I think she did pretty well from Deep Throat.

While I am sure that the vast majority of porn stars don't become as anti porn as Linda LoveLace, I watched her interviews several times in the 80s, she was really down on the industry. I think it fair to say that a sizable minority have regrets, I remember watching a film a couple of years ago with interviews of retired or semi retired big name porn stars and while none were "porn is evil", several were happy to put that period of their life behind them. Plus it is worth noting that while female porn star make bigger bucks than male stars, the male stars have a much longer careers than the females.
 
Sevrin said:
She was in a porn movie and she was a star. I didn't know that there were other requirements.

PS: You might want to use the quote function when quoting. Mentioning the author's name in the body of the post is also considered good manners, especially if you are quoting the whole article, which is not.

Sorry that I did not post the article with the author's name and inside a quote box. I do think her experiences are relevant and I hate that she went through bad things. I think she was a porn star. She was famous enough to be called one. Her trials and tribulations brought attention to the fact that porn is not always glamorous and wonderful. Her abusive ex-husband Chuck Traynor was an asshole that felt like he owned her and when she did not want to participate in the porn industry, he would hold a gun to her head to make her comply. He did this so that she would make him money.

The money she earned did not go to her. Chuck kept the money like the scumbag pimp he was. There are things like this going on around the world currently, but it goes unreported, due to fear of retaliation from the abuser(s). I feel for Linda Lovelace's pain and suffering while under the management of an inexcusable asshole. No woman should have to get beaten so that she will continue bringing in money for a lazy douche, porn industry or otherwise. I think some people thought I was in agreement with the article because I did not go into enough detail when posting.
 
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What happened was she was in Deep Throat and then joined Women Against Pornography in the eighties. She had a job as a mail clerk for a while and then went back into porn. I can't remember which came first, though. I know that she went back into porn after she spoke out against the industry.

If anyone hasn't seen it, watch the documentary "Inside Deep Throat". It's on Netflix.
 
This thread kind of brings back fond memories. Deep Throat and Jail Bait were the first porns I ever saw. Staying with the older brother at the time and he had rented them. While he was at work... :whistle: :-D
 
PunkInDrublic said:
MercedesLynn said:
“It’s one of the few jobs where women are empowered to be financially and emotionally independent and that terrifies people,” Syre said.
lmao Was already hard to take the article seriously because it was written by a male porn star but that line was hilarious. Like, how delusional do you have to be to believe that?

.... I dont know?? I see women being empowered by porn. And I see women being disempowered by porn. Usually its to do with whether or not they're the type of person that is 'cut out' for something like this.. There are some ladies doing porn and camming that just should NOT be doing it. Its not healthy for them. And then there are some that are doing awesome with it!

And after my own recent forays with the press.. when i was explaining how camming has empowered me to a major newspaper and reporter.. YES.. the reaction I got seemed to be one of fear. Like "well if you ENJOY this and are NOT being abused or used in some way... this is scary!" EVERYONE i spoke to seemed very very uncomfortable with this idea.

They kept trying to find the 'bad'.. and weren't satisfied when I told them the bad for ME and MY experience was pretty much societies own attitudes that shunned the adult industry, and at the same time funded it. The society that isolates us, and tries to make us ashamed of our job, our bodies etc.
 
Miss_Lollipop said:
PunkInDrublic said:
MercedesLynn said:
“It’s one of the few jobs where women are empowered to be financially and emotionally independent and that terrifies people,” Syre said.
lmao Was already hard to take the article seriously because it was written by a male porn star but that line was hilarious. Like, how delusional do you have to be to believe that?

.... I dont know?? I see women being empowered by porn. And I see women being disempowered by porn. Usually its to do with whether or not they're the type of person that is 'cut out' for something like this.. There are some ladies doing porn and camming that just should NOT be doing it. Its not healthy for them. And then there are some that are doing awesome with it!

And after my own recent forays with the press.. when i was explaining how camming has empowered me to a major newspaper and reporter.. YES.. the reaction I got seemed to be one of fear. Like "well if you ENJOY this and are NOT being abused or used in some way... this is scary!" EVERYONE i spoke to seemed very very uncomfortable with this idea.

They kept trying to find the 'bad'.. and weren't satisfied when I told them the bad for ME and MY experience was pretty much societies own attitudes that shunned the adult industry, and at the same time funded it. The society that isolates us, and tries to make us ashamed of our job, our bodies etc.
Again reminds me of that episode of the tyra banks show where Sasha Grey is the guest, and Tyra spends the whole show basically trying to tell Sasha she must not be happy, and must not have had a good childhood, if she's doing porn.
'what is a "gang bang" scene?' lol...
 
Didn't read the entire article.

Anyway, "porn star" is a relative term. Being that Lovelace was in the industry when people were being coerced/drugged/pimped-out, just because she was in porn and a big name does not equate to her being a "star", especially when she wasn't even able to keep her earnings and probably received daily beatings by the controlling/abusive Chuck Traynor.

@ about Tyra Banks asking Sasha Grey what a "gang bang" is *rolls eyes* Of course she knew what that was, sensationalism at its best (or worst, depending on your outlook) :lol:
 
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Miss_Lollipop said:
PunkInDrublic said:
Like, how delusional do you have to be to believe that?

.... I dont know?? .
Thousands of jobs that empower women to be financially and emotionally independent. Porn would be way at the bottom of the list for most. Porn people always try to act like it's some great way to express their sexuality but you can be a lawyer or doctor and still express yourself sexually. Getting paid to fuck strangers just isn't that empowering through some eyes. Changing peoples lives for the better is much more empowering than being a glorified prostitute. I really don't think that it terrifies people either. Like, no one cares or is jealous if some women want to do porn. Do whatever you want but don't try to pretend that being in porn somehow makes you special or that not being in porn means you're not expressing yourself sexually. Would also argue that being in porn makes financial independence much more difficult later in life. Add in that most companies are controlled by men and that the real money is being made by the men. Yeah not seeing how empowering it is.

When I first saw Sasha Grey in Entourage I thought they just brought in a horrible actress so Adrian Greniers acting wouldn't look as bad as usual. Mind was blown.
 
PunkInDrublic said:
Miss_Lollipop said:
PunkInDrublic said:
Like, how delusional do you have to be to believe that?

.... I dont know?? .
Thousands of jobs that empower women to be financially and emotionally independent. Porn would be way at the bottom of the list for most. Porn people always try to act like it's some great way to express their sexuality but you can be a lawyer or doctor and still express yourself sexually. Getting paid to fuck strangers just isn't that empowering through some eyes. Changing peoples lives for the better is much more empowering than being a glorified prostitute. I really don't think that it terrifies people either. Like, no one cares or is jealous if some women want to do porn. Do whatever you want but don't try to pretend that being in porn somehow makes you special or that not being in porn means you're not expressing yourself sexually. Would also argue that being in porn makes financial independence much more difficult later in life. Add in that most companies are controlled by men and that the real money is being made by the men. Yeah not seeing how empowering it is.

When I first saw Sasha Grey in Entourage I thought they just brought in a horrible actress so Adrian Greniers acting wouldn't look as bad as usual. Mind was blown.
Porn is a good job for some and a hell hole job for others just like any other industry. To some people, sitting in a cubicle for $15/hour might sound great. To me, it sounds like misery. At 22, I spent 55 hours a week split between a hotel front desk and 3rd shift waitressing. It was awesome, fun and even though the money per hour was shit, it added up to be enough for anything I needed. Would that work for me now? No. Still great for that period of my life. No one should devalue another person's experience in a job because it doesn't match their own. Porn might be the only female driven 'career' that women don't have to fight to make good money in. (Nurses, teachers and receptionists get shit on because they're historically female job paths). It's not really fair to cite the Leos of the world as a reason that porn is demeaning. Unless you're a CEO someone is making more money for your work than you are. Our world is tilted in favor of the rich.

The dude (of course it's a mother fucking dude trying to put his two cents in) who penned the article is idiotically naive for trying to paint it as all ponies and rainbows and an ass for pushing aside Linda Lovelace's experiences, but porn CAN certainly be empowering for women. Money is freedom. Freedom is power. I can't think of another job that would allow me to work one or two hours a night from my home while my kid sleeps and support my family. Supporting our family or our own dreams with minimal sacrifice is what most of us want, right?

I'd be curious to know what percentage of women come out of it happy and what percentage come out crushed. It would be interesting to compare experiences.
 
JickyJuly said:
At 22, I spent 55 hours a week split between a hotel front desk and 3rd shift waitressing.

You must have met so many interesting people, and heard so many stories.
 
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I have some opinions about what you just said.

Thousands of jobs that empower women to be financially and emotionally independent. Porn would be way at the bottom of the list for most. Porn people always try to act like it's some great way to express their sexuality but you can be a lawyer or doctor and still express yourself sexually. Porn can be ONE great way to express sexuality but I don't think that anyone ever argues that its the ONLY way to express yourself sexually, or that a lawyer or doctor couldn't also?

Getting paid to fuck strangers just isn't that empowering through some eyes. And through others, it is!

Changing peoples lives for the better is much more empowering than being a glorified prostitute.-- This is your opinion. This is something that sounds empowering to YOU. Personally, camming (wont argue porn...) means I can work such few hours so that I can do what I feel really fucking empowered doing which has nothing to do with people.. rescue work. Also as for 'glorified prostitute' - prostitution can be empowering for people to so why you put that in there like its a bad thing? Paid to fuck strangers vs paid to fuck strangers on film... yeah ok we get the analogy.
I really don't think that it terrifies people either. In my personal experience, it does. Think what you like.. but I deal with fear often because I have a policy of honesty with most new people i meet

Like, no one cares or is jealous if some women want to do porn. Except that many people do. Thats why they try to pass laws intended to stop it and they attempt to control what we do with our bodies

Do whatever you want but don't try to pretend that being in porn somehow makes you special or that not being in porn means you're not expressing yourself sexually.

I don't think anyone, again, said or implied that being in porn is the only way or the right way to express your sexuality

Would also argue that being in porn makes financial independence much more difficult later in life. Agreed! U said something smart!

Add in that most companies are controlled by men and that the real money is being made by the men. Thats everywhere.. not just porn. More women need to be CEO's this is not a newsflash

Yeah not seeing how empowering it is.That's because you're assuming things, have an either/or mentality and seem to feel your opinions are facts (at least by how you state them). i can completely see and understand how a woman could feel that porn was DISEMPOWERING to her.. on many levels! Because I don't think that my experience, or that one experience, is the be all and end all of porn. You should try it!
 
JickyJuly said:
porn CAN certainly be empowering for women. Money is freedom. Freedom is power. I can't think of another job that would allow me to work one or two hours a night from my home while my kid sleeps and support my family. Supporting our family or our own dreams with minimal sacrifice is what most of us want, right?

For some women sure but I can think of thousands of jobs where you would only have to work an hour or two a week and bring in much more than a camgirl working a few hours. Most require years of schooling and time put in but let's not pretend like being a camgirl is the only option women have to make decent money. Like, I know a lot of the models like to pretend that they make insane amounts of money or that they make more than woman with other careers but I rarely ever see baller shit from models. My neighbor is a dentist and she lives alone in a huge ass house and she has a new 6 series that she claims she bought. How is this even possible if she isn't getting naked? Don't get me wrong, whatever empowers someone positively is great. If getting paid to get naked or getting paid to sleep with random dudes makes someone feel empowered, great. I just find it annoying when people pretend that it's the only option for women to ball.
 
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PunkInDrublic said:
JickyJuly said:
porn CAN certainly be empowering for women. Money is freedom. Freedom is power. I can't think of another job that would allow me to work one or two hours a night from my home while my kid sleeps and support my family. Supporting our family or our own dreams with minimal sacrifice is what most of us want, right?

For some women sure but I can think of thousands of jobs where you would only have to work an hour or two a week and bring in much more than a camgirl working a few hours. Most require years of schooling and time put in but let's not pretend like being a camgirl is the only option women have to make decent money. Like, I know a lot of the models like to pretend that they make insane amounts of money or that they make more than woman with other careers but I rarely ever see baller shit from models. My neighbor is a dentist and she lives alone in a huge ass house and she has a new 6 series that she claims she bought. How is this even possible if she isn't getting naked? Don't get me wrong, whatever empowers someone positively is great. If getting paid to get naked or getting paid to sleep with random dudes makes someone feel empowered, great. I just find it annoying when people pretend that it's the only option for women to ball.


can you explain to me where anyone is giving you the impression that anyone feels that porn is our ONLY option to make a good living for ourselves as women? Cos.. that would not feel empowering to me... at all.

I.. confused by you. Very confused. Its all either or... why can't it just be ONE job that SOME women feel empowered doing and SOME women dont? Why can't it just be one way of finding sexual empowerment, as well as ONE way to make money and create a life for yourself?

This is also my issue with 'anti porn' ex-pornstars and books and docos that come out.. they seem to have a all or nothing mentality. "I had a bad experience with porn so ALL porn must be bad"

And articles like this douchebag wrote make the 'pro porn' camp look stupid, because he completely belittles and rejects the validity of linda's experiences in porn.

Bad stuff happens.
Good stuff happens.

Its the same in any career... or job.

Also: I meant to say in my earlier post - Providing Pussy to the lonely and horny masses is TOTALLY MAKING PEOPLES LIVES BETTER DAMMIT!
 
PunkInDrublic said:
JickyJuly said:
porn CAN certainly be empowering for women. Money is freedom. Freedom is power. I can't think of another job that would allow me to work one or two hours a night from my home while my kid sleeps and support my family. Supporting our family or our own dreams with minimal sacrifice is what most of us want, right?

For some women sure but I can think of thousands of jobs where you would only have to work an hour or two a week and bring in much more than a camgirl working a few hours. Most require years of schooling and time put in but let's not pretend like being a camgirl is the only option women have to make decent money. Like, I know a lot of the models like to pretend that they make insane amounts of money or that they make more than woman with other careers but I rarely ever see baller shit from models. My neighbor is a dentist and she lives alone in a huge ass house and she has a new 6 series that she claims she bought. How is this even possible if she isn't getting naked? Don't get me wrong, whatever empowers someone positively is great. If getting paid to get naked or getting paid to sleep with random dudes makes someone feel empowered, great. I just find it annoying when people pretend that it's the only option for women to ball.
I clearly pointed out that different jobs mean different things to different people. Nowhere did I say it was a singular option. People will define personal and financial success differently. To me, the money I make per hour on Streamate paired with the flexibility of it is awesome. To someone else, it might be laughable pocket change. I don't need flashy baller shit to make my ego feel good. I want time with my kid and bills paid without breaking a sweat over it. Even if I did make crazy money, it would never show. Not everyone is that kind of person. The idea of being a dentist repulses me personally. :lol: Maybe a dentist would be grossed out by a career in nudity. Variety is the spice of life. Stop trying to twist my words to be a sour grape man.
 
JickyJuly said:
I don't need flashy baller shit to make my ego feel good. I want time with my kid and bills paid without breaking a sweat over it. Even if I did make crazy money, it would never show. Not everyone is that kind of person. The idea of being a dentist repulses me personally. :lol: Maybe a dentist would be grossed out by a career in nudity. Variety is the spice of life. Stop trying to twist my words to be a sour grape man.
Cool post and my bad. Ain't trying to twist words.
 
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Miss_Lollipop said:
I have some opinions about what you just said.

Thousands of jobs that empower women to be financially and emotionally independent. Porn would be way at the bottom of the list for most. Porn people always try to act like it's some great way to express their sexuality but you can be a lawyer or doctor and still express yourself sexually. Porn can be ONE great way to express sexuality but I don't think that anyone ever argues that its the ONLY way to express yourself sexually, or that a lawyer or doctor couldn't also?

Getting paid to fuck strangers just isn't that empowering through some eyes. And through others, it is!

Changing peoples lives for the better is much more empowering than being a glorified prostitute.-- This is your opinion. This is something that sounds empowering to YOU. Personally, camming (wont argue porn...) means I can work such few hours so that I can do what I feel really fucking empowered doing which has nothing to do with people.. rescue work. Also as for 'glorified prostitute' - prostitution can be empowering for people to so why you put that in there like its a bad thing? Paid to fuck strangers vs paid to fuck strangers on film... yeah ok we get the analogy.
I really don't think that it terrifies people either. In my personal experience, it does. Think what you like.. but I deal with fear often because I have a policy of honesty with most new people i meet

Like, no one cares or is jealous if some women want to do porn. Except that many people do. Thats why they try to pass laws intended to stop it and they attempt to control what we do with our bodies

Do whatever you want but don't try to pretend that being in porn somehow makes you special or that not being in porn means you're not expressing yourself sexually.

I don't think anyone, again, said or implied that being in porn is the only way or the right way to express your sexuality

Would also argue that being in porn makes financial independence much more difficult later in life. Agreed! U said something smart!

Add in that most companies are controlled by men and that the real money is being made by the men. Thats everywhere.. not just porn. More women need to be CEO's this is not a newsflash

Yeah not seeing how empowering it is.That's because you're assuming things, have an either/or mentality and seem to feel your opinions are facts (at least by how you state them). i can completely see and understand how a woman could feel that porn was DISEMPOWERING to her.. on many levels! Because I don't think that my experience, or that one experience, is the be all and end all of porn. You should try it!

I agree with everything Miss Lollipop just said here. She seems to have a very intelligent and realistic view of the topic. I can also echo that people are often threatened by female sexuality when it is more in-your-face as it is in the porn industry; the idea that women are sexual, enjoy being sexual, and can gain power through sex is inconceivable to some. And it makes them uncomfortable.

Furthermore, PunkinDrublic: You seem to have a pretty negative view of cam girls and people in the porn industry in general. I'm amused that you hang out in a forum specifically created for said people. Why is that?
 
RedGrapefruit said:
Furthermore, PunkinDrublic: You seem to have a pretty negative view of cam girls and people in the porn industry in general. I'm amused that you hang out in a forum specifically created for said people. Why is that?
I have a negative view of some camgirls but it has nothing to do with them camming. I find it amusing that my realistic views of the industry are seen as negatives. I wasn't aware Amber created the forum specifically for camgirls. Anyway don't care what you think I think, go ahead and continue on thinking I hate all sex workers. The models posts that I come here to read and learn from know that I have nothing but positives views of them.
 
PunkInDrublic said:
RedGrapefruit said:
Furthermore, PunkinDrublic: You seem to have a pretty negative view of cam girls and people in the porn industry in general. I'm amused that you hang out in a forum specifically created for said people. Why is that?
I have a negative view of some camgirls but it has nothing to do with them camming. I find it amusing that my realistic views of the industry are seen as negatives. I wasn't aware Amber created the forum specifically for camgirls. Anyway don't care what you think I think, go ahead and continue on thinking I hate all sex workers. The models posts that I come here to read and learn from know that I have nothing but positives views of them.

Cool. Not attacking you. And I don't recall saying that you hate all sex workers. If you feel that your view is realistic, that's fine. Just asking a question about motives.
 
PunkInDrublic said:
RedGrapefruit said:
If you feel that your view is realistic, that's fine.
lmao classic denial

It's not denial. It's her saying she doesn't agree with it and lets face it, a majority of the models on here DON'T agree with you. You're impression of the industry from ours is vastly different and realistic CLEARLY means very different things to us. From my point of view, everything you've said thus far has been ridiculous, misinformed, or just plain stupid & snarky. You do not have a realistic view of the industry or how cam models feel. You are taking what we are saying and either twisting words or severely misinterpreting. Seems to be you genuinely want to be the asshole here instead of actually listening to people who oppose you and having a dialogue.
 
PunkInDrublic said:
I wasn't aware Amber created the forum specifically for camgirls.

I was under the impression Amber did just that. But then decided later to make it open for anyone to join provided they weren't asshats of course.
 
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GemmaMarie said:
From my point of view, everything you've said thus far has been ridiculous, misinformed, or just plain stupid & snarky.
Probably because you have a very small minded and simple point of view. Or you are just in denial or delusional. Either way, don't care.
 
PunkInDrublic said:
GemmaMarie said:
From my point of view, everything you've said thus far has been ridiculous, misinformed, or just plain stupid & snarky.
Probably because you have a very small minded and simple point of view. Or you are just in denial or delusional. Either way, don't care.

Classic snark. Just sayin'. My point proved. Thank you.
 
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