Katsumichann.... whorenickels

[RebeccaT]

Satirise domestic violence? No
Satirise child abuse? No
Satirise animal abuse? No
Satirise violence against a black guy? Oh...that seems acceptable.

I just don't get it.

 

[NekoMieow]

Sorry, Romanian models are scammy. I'm Romanian and I was in a studio where girls frequently did that and then members would come in my room and just be angry with me simply for being in the same country/studio. I've had numerous arguments with fellow models in that particular studio over scamming, I was called a bitch, members called me a bitch for being Romanian. It's all wonderful. You know, one model being a jerk isn't such a big deal, hundreds being jerks = no more premium accounts for Romanians. Whatever. What would they do that is useful anyway? I've seen American models helping each other out and supporting one another. I regret to say Romanians are generally less helpful and supportive. Not all, obviously, but most. They could afford a premium account just fine by the way.
Now can we get back to the original conversation?

 

[fandango]

We gotta applaud this dude for having the most amazing skills at mental gymnastics.

The day before on the same thread he posts this when someone says discriminating against Romania is racism:



I guess islam and Mexico are races then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You also called these people a cancer. Racism, xenophobia or whatever let's not get lost from the main point over which word best covers it, the fact is it was a shitty thing to say.

You could have said "I've had too many problems with people from these countries in the past and to save myself the hassle I now just ban all of them." Which is fair enough if that's how you want to run things, I presume this is what MFC has done with Romania, but to say everyone from these places is a cancer is awful. Do you see the difference?

 

[Mila_]

You also called these people a cancer. Racism, xenophobia or whatever let's not get lost from the main point over which word best covers it, the fact is it was a shitty thing to say.

You could have said "I've had too many problems with people from these countries in the past and to save myself the hassle I now just ban all of them." Which is fair enough if that's how you want to run things, I presume this is what MFC has done with Romania, but to say everyone from these places is a cancer is awful. Do you see the difference?

You know what else is cancer? Poodles, traffic, and smartasses on internet forums who think they are morally superior to everyone else.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

I have to wonder how POLE would view WhoreNickels show. Do they find it offensive as well? I suspect some would.
Consider the following underviewed video. Once you get past the hilarious first minute of goading, an officer attempts to defend against the cry of racism. He appears to be completely oblivious to the fact that the actions of himself and his department are somewhat racist, in practice if not intent.

Spoiler: vid

Satirise domestic violence? No
Satirise child abuse? No
Satirise animal abuse? No
Satirise violence against a black guy? Oh...that seems acceptable.

I just don't get it.

You raise an interesting point here that has me questioning my position.
Domestic violence would need to be done really well for me to consider it acceptable. I view animals as fair game. But the child abuse has definitely given me pause. Hopefully WhoreNickels won't stoop to that.

Sorry, Romanian models are scammy. I'm Romanian...
Now can we get back to the original conversation?

Seems everyone enjoys poking fun at Romanians. But to find the really scathing criticism of them, you've got to listen to Romanians.

 

[AmberCutie]

Through all of this, in the back of my mind I've wondered if anyone has drawn similarities between WN's satire** shows and South Park.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Park_controversies

**I almost put this in quotes because clearly it is not agreed upon by any majority in the community whether it is satire or just bad taste/racism or not, I just wanted to bring up the discussion, this is the best wording I could think of. I'm also BY NO MEANS saying I find her shows as well thought out and entertaining as South Park...

***triple disclaimer: once upon a time I told her I found her shows creative and entertaining, but that was when she was using talking animals and nerf guns and special tip graphics only.

 

[ZenHedonist]

Through all of this, in the back of my mind I've wondered if anyone has drawn similarities between WN's satire** shows and South Park.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Park_controversies

**I almost put this in quotes because clearly it is not agreed upon by any majority in the community whether it is satire or just bad taste/racism or not, I just wanted to bring up the discussion, this is the best wording I could think of. I'm also BY NO MEANS saying I find her shows as well thought out and entertaining as South Park...

***triple disclaimer: once upon a time I told her I found her shows creative and entertaining, but that was when she was using talking animals and nerf guns and special tip graphics only.

Or maybe like Andy Kaufman. Some of his stuff was interesting but I found most of it annoying. Thank Xenu my TV allowed me to change the channel and watching something else I liked more...
#justsaying

 

[Nordling]

Or maybe like Andy Kaufman. Some of his stuff was interesting but I found most of it annoying. Thank Xenu my TV allowed me to change the channel and watching something else I liked more...
#justsaying

Well, yeah! That was exactly what Kaufman's goal was.

 

[AmberCutie]

WN shared this on her Twitter - http://business.avn.com/articles/te...WhoreNickels-Cam-Show-Controversy-688951.html

 

[Guy]

WN shared this on her Twitter - http://business.avn.com/articles/te...WhoreNickels-Cam-Show-Controversy-688951.html

MFC's argument against banning her is incredibly weak. They claim what WN did was artistic while at the same time acknowledging that its content was racist. Unbelievable.

 

[RebeccaT]

I was just told by a member: "Kind of hoping she stays in the mine..."

 

[justjoinedtopost]

I'm a little surprised there hasn't more said about her show the night of the Nice attack.

She was demanding people tip her for the victims, banning some when they refused. Shocking.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

MFC's argument against banning her is incredibly weak. They claim what WN did was artistic while at the same time acknowledging that its content was racist. Unbelievable.

Nothing in the world say things can't be both. They often are.

 

[Guy]

Nothing in the world say things can't be both. They often are.

Claiming what she did was artistic is like claiming the Nazi flag is artistic.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Claiming what she did was artistic is like claiming the Nazi flag is artistic.

First, I didn't claim that, MFC did. I merely pointed out things can be both, which is correct. If I wanted to claim what she did was artistic I would have specifically said that. I'm very careful about my word choices even though many people tend to just read into things, like this, however they wish. Racist can still be artistic. There's no rule to the contrary no matter how many times you click that little disagree icon.

Second, I wasn't aware you actually watched her entire show to know. Please enlighten us further.

 

[Guy]

I didn't watch it. But how does the rest of what happened in it make that segment ok?

 

[Magnolia]

I'm a little surprised there hasn't more said about her show the night of the Nice attack.

She was demanding people tip her for the victims, banning some when they refused. Shocking.

Because no one gives a fuck? She has already played her strongest hands, nothing else is shocking from her now.

 

[TacoBelle]

Now that "a spokesperson for MFC" has publicly responded to the issue (well, one of the issues), I would like to get some ACF opinions on something.

Olivia did her whole Nazi show thing, and they suspended her until she removed the flag and changed her show. Granted, she complied within just a few minutes, but it still happened. They didn't just roll their eyes and claim that it's cool cause it's satire. Besides the obvious fact that the death tolls vary greatly between the two implied situations, I can't see much difference in the two shows.

And while some people love to claim that MFC is just looking the other way if the model is garnering lots of tips, that's just simply not logical in these instances. Olivia had to have made multiple thousands of dollars during her bit. She was insanely popular. They shut her down during her show. WN probably only made multiple hundred, possibly a thousand (don't quote me on that, cause I obviously wasn't there to witness it) simply due to her not having such a large following as Olivia. So why would they allow one and not the other when they're both similar shows in 'satire?'

 

[Guy]

Now that "a spokesperson for MFC" has publicly responded to the issue (well, one of the issues), I would like to get some ACF opinions on something.

Olivia did her whole Nazi show thing, and they suspended her until she removed the flag and changed her show. Granted, she complied within just a few minutes, but it still happened. They didn't just roll their eyes and claim that it's cool cause it's satire. Besides the obvious fact that the death tolls vary greatly between the two implied situations, I can't see much difference in the two shows.

And while some people love to claim that MFC is just looking the other way if the model is garnering lots of tips, that's just simply not logical in these instances. Olivia had to have made multiple thousands of dollars during her bit. She was insanely popular. They shut her down during her show. WN probably only made multiple hundred, possibly a thousand (don't quote me on that, cause I obviously wasn't there to witness it) simply due to her not having such a large following as Olivia. So why would they allow one and not the other when they're both similar shows in 'satire?'

Olivia should have been banned for doing that Nazi show.

 

[mutantdonut]

I'm guessing WN uses any type of publicity to her advantage, so it's all good publicity to her.

The more i read, the more i equate her to a radio shock jock

 

[Guy]

I'm guessing WN uses any type of publicity to her advantage, so it's all good publicity to her.

The more i read, the more i equate her to a radio shock jock

But MFC isn't a shock jock radio show. MFC is supposed to be a welcoming community.

 

[Mila_]

But MFC isn't a shock jock radio show. MFC is supposed to be a welcoming community.

This clause didn't come in my "welcome to MFC" manual. Can you tell me in which page it's in?

 

[Nikola Tesla]

Olivia should have been banned for doing that Nazi show.

Says you.

 

[AmberCutie]

MFC is supposed to be a welcoming community.

MFC is a platform provided for people who perform/entertain and thus create the community.

 

[Mila_]

Now that "a spokesperson for MFC" has publicly responded to the issue (well, one of the issues), I would like to get some ACF opinions on something.

Olivia did her whole Nazi show thing, and they suspended her until she removed the flag and changed her show. Granted, she complied within just a few minutes, but it still happened. They didn't just roll their eyes and claim that it's cool cause it's satire. Besides the obvious fact that the death tolls vary greatly between the two implied situations, I can't see much difference in the two shows.

And while some people love to claim that MFC is just looking the other way if the model is garnering lots of tips, that's just simply not logical in these instances. Olivia had to have made multiple thousands of dollars during her bit. She was insanely popular. They shut her down during her show. WN probably only made multiple hundred, possibly a thousand (don't quote me on that, cause I obviously wasn't there to witness it) simply due to her not having such a large following as Olivia. So why would they allow one and not the other when they're both similar shows in 'satire?'

There could be several reasons I can think of. The first is that the two situations are not equal. Olivia was using the most massive genocide the world has ever seen and the satire angle wasn't obvious. She lip-synced a Hitler speech and proceeded to dance and tease dressed in a Nazi uniform with nazi flags behind her. Nothing in her show conveyed satire.

Doing a police show on the Dallas police massacre day isn't nearly as offensive simply because the racial bias the police might have in the US is nothing like the Holocaust, no matter how many mental gymnastics some far left warriors want to push. Anyone with a modicum of shame will admit openly that as shitty as racial bias might be today in the US it is not even in the same Universe as the Holocaust. Additionally, WN does make the satire angle pretty obvious to anyone who isn't actively looking to get offended for free. So that might be one of the reasons Olivia got banned and WN didn't.

But probably the most important reason is displaying a swastika and supporting Hitler is illegal in most european countries to this day. Displaying such content might get MFC in legal trouble in countries like Germany. I have no doubt in my mind that if MFC only worked in the US where nazi speech is protected, he wouldn't have shut down that show. He didn't shut her burqa show on the anniversary of 9/11 and it was just as offensive as her Nazi show because there aren't laws in place that could get MFC in trouble.

 

[SoTxBob]

Olivia should have been banned for doing that Nazi show.

Once again, if you weren't there to see and hear it, which I was, you have no leg to stand on besides repetition of mob mentality and rumor. In her muddled german it was all about the token race for the top spot. The only thing "nazi" [that seems to have grabbed most of the uber-sensitive minds] was her costume. TYT stepped all over their dicks for that very same reason, espousing shyte of which they knew nothing but pictures. If you are so sensitive that a costume offends you, then never turn on the TV or look at the news again and you should be safe.
As far as WN, I use the "next model" option.

 

[Myriads]

The main take away from this in my opinion is that MFC has clearly stated that they see their models as Artists, which as the article notes, provides them with a very strong set of rights when it comes to protecting their speech. This is pretty canny, as it gives them (MFC) a platform to challenge censorship laws in any area that attempt to lock the site, and other adult sites out. It places a lot of legal precedent on their side.

As with all free speech you get stuff you agree with, and stuff you loath. Also no one ever can say that the Art an artist creates is good. Or bad. It's 100% subjective. It's always fun to see that many folks feel that free speech is cool up to the point they disagree with it. Then it needs to be locked down NOW!

Regarding Olivia and the Nazi flag, if I am not in error, in Germany and some other European nations, display of that flag is by law defined as hate speech. And thus MFC acted directly to end its display due to those laws under their hate speech guidelines. MFC by need is sensitive to many locations specific laws.

WN offended a lot of people and models. But there are no shortage of people that are offended by the base nudity that almost all models display daily on MFC, let alone all the other things that are done on live cams. The same rules that protect that, also protect WN. Artistic free speech is a BIG umbrella. Cutting holes in it seems foolish, and it is why it's been upheld so many times.

Now, all that said, there is a case to be made as to the atmosphere that a set of speech rules creates, and are the to the benefit or detriment of a community. And there is the area worth debating. Have MFC's choices created a place that has advanced it's models ability to earn, and earn safely, or not? THAT is a question only the models can answer.

 

[n_i_c_u]

Just thinking, but, It sure seems like the holocaust was a pretty quick and a fairly recent atrocity (in terms of history) and the racial biases by the brown shirts and nazis is pretty much understood by everyone. Racial bias by police (or government and the peoples) in the US seems to have been around since the start of the good ole US of A. I don't think people realize how fucked up this country has been. It's like a wound that never ever heals; one step forward and then two steps back. I know I couldn't handle being singled out: Imagine if cops started looking at belly size and the baldness of a man instead of ethnicity or color of skin--I would be screwed.

All that said, I never saw the Whorenickles show, or Olivia's show, so I'm not sure how classy or artsy they were (not that they need to be). Maybe their intentions were good? It is possible. I say messed up stuff all the time (cause I'm not smart) not knowing I'm hurting someone without trying. So I'm not holding anything against them as a human because I don't think these people are inherently evil. Live and learn.

 

[yummybrownfox]

Now that "a spokesperson for MFC" has publicly responded to the issue (well, one of the issues), I would like to get some ACF opinions on something.

Olivia did her whole Nazi show thing, and they suspended her until she removed the flag and changed her show. Granted, she complied within just a few minutes, but it still happened. They didn't just roll their eyes and claim that it's cool cause it's satire. Besides the obvious fact that the death tolls vary greatly between the two implied situations, I can't see much difference in the two shows.

And while some people love to claim that MFC is just looking the other way if the model is garnering lots of tips, that's just simply not logical in these instances. Olivia had to have made multiple thousands of dollars during her bit. She was insanely popular. They shut her down during her show. WN probably only made multiple hundred, possibly a thousand (don't quote me on that, cause I obviously wasn't there to witness it) simply due to her not having such a large following as Olivia. So why would they allow one and not the other when they're both similar shows in 'satire?'

Wow! Yes, that is INSANE to me that MFC would suspend a model for a Nazi show, but not for a "tip to beat - or not beat - a Black person" show. SMH.

 

[fandango]

I didn't see any of WN show but I did see the Olivia Nazi show and it was so ridiculous it was quite clearly not Olivia being racist. The room chat on the other hand was disgusting, all the MFC racists came out for it. There were so many comments about killing Jews all sorts of other things and none of that can be claimed as "Art". The chat was extremely hostile and flamey and I think MFC should have been waiting with the banhammer for all those members.

I'd bet WN show probably went the same way, even if she wasn't saying anything racist herself the chat would have been full of it and that's the stuff I think MFC should be banning if it's in their community guidelines.