Is Chaturbate broken by Viewer bots ?

[megafapper]

I create this thread because chaturbate last months has a lot of bots for the room promotion (first places take a more money). Right now about 10K bots present almost 24/7 and sometimes more than 20K.
I'm not affilated with any model. I'm just IT-guy who knows how it works and I'm client, who use this site for relax after a hard work.
I try to write to support (more than 20 times with detailed technical explanations) but bots are still there

Main problem of the bots that the freak shows with bad quality picture and without any action (sitting and doing NOTHING) occupy all the main page and other models who does not use bots became too sad or became to do the same freak shows. And I do not want to tip or to fap to the sad models or in the freakshow rooms.

And I don't know what to do.
I can promote all rooms randomly with a huge counters (after cb has changed own code creating bots become much easy). But it will break chaturbate more that now and will do many models more sad. Right now because of bots chat already is too laggy, sometimes I can not tip, have to reload page periodically, etc. So adding more bots break cb totally.

I just don't know how to affect to chaturbate support for faster resolution of this problem.

P.S. Sorry for my bad English. It does not my primary language.

 

[uncoveredmanhole]

 

[Nikola Tesla]

?

 

[Mila_]

Bots have no effect on Chaturbate's model placement since early 2016. The algorithm was changed from "total number of viewers" to "registered members watching".



In the example above, the trans model Chloe Salpa has 1,980 viewers and is placed higher than female model Laura Webcum who has almost 6,000. The second model has 3x as many total viewers but Chloe has a higher number of registered members watching her.

And the anonymous viewers are not necessarily bots. Most often than not those are views from ads (banners or pop-unders) on 3rd party websites.

 

[megafapper]

@Kitsune yes and no.
Right now rooms are promoted by two types of bots. Registered users bots and guest bots.
First type slightly harder do for botmasters but this type directly affect on room position on the main page. Only 200-300 registered users do 100% first screen on the main page.
Guest bots affect on position indirectly. Valid users come to the room when see large counters. That's why right now usually guest bots visit only room that is already on the first screen.
Sometimes first places have >15K viewers is really unnatural with only 800 registered users in that rooms.

I know minimum 3 large botnets with different algorithms that use bots on CB.

The first agency use only guest visitors for promoting some couples rooms (usually Colombian), and when botnet is free it promote 3-4 first places.

The second one is the russian touring escort agency, that promotes own girls. It use a little number of registered users bots for fast climbing up and after that add more guests when model on the first place. Tip for these girls are not important, first places on sites as chaturbate is the main thing. First place on CB, a lot of followers on CB, instagram, twitter do these girl popular and very increase their escort service cost.

And the last one (or maybe two agency) use a huge amount of registered users bots. But these bots chaturbate has banned almost successfully last times (but not always)

Also some models have own registered users botnets (>1K registered users in less than 5 minute from the show is started is impossible for any room). And when these room go on one of the first place room is picked up by bots from other agency. And botmaster slowly disable registered users bots for saving it from ban.

P.S. I will not write why right now writing bots is much easy, than before. But crazy counters became on cb site 3-4 month before and exactly in this time cb changed own code.

 

[uncoveredmanhole]

Also some models have own registered users botnets (>1K registered users in less than 5 minute from the show is started is impossible for any room). And when these room go on one of the first place room is picked up by bots from other agency. And botmaster slowly disable registered users bots for saving it from ban.

and as evidence for this conspiracy you have shown CB officials what?

 

[megafapper]

@uncoveredmanhole, CB techs has all statistics for visitors, guests, etc. I've informed them about bots and unnatural activity and after that they locked ip of most cheap hosting companies, but it helped only for one week - buying a lot of proxies is not expensive thing.
Why 1K registered users viewing a room in 5 minute is a fake? I believe that theoretically it is possible (twitter announce, chaturbate announce etc.). But chaturbate sends own emails to followers not instantly, but in period of time? sometimes it takes more than 15 minutes for 100K followers. And one question: If 1K registered viewers visit this room in less than 5 minute, that why total amount of registered users does not increase a lot next few hours? If this room is such a popular room, registered users must go in later and after 10 minutes and after 30 minutes etc...

I understand that chaturbate cannot ban model because any evidences exist that model do it, not someone else. But some models know about bots. It was seen when cb locked many ip addresses - model start/stop broadcasting, nervously typed on keyboard etc. And can not reach even first screen of chaturbate main page (previous 3-4 weeks they was on the first place almost all the time)

 

[Mila_]

Guest bots affect on position indirectly. Valid users come to the room when see large counters.

This might be true in principle, but if your room is a flop they will stay for 10 seconds, scratch their heads, and move on. It is hard to keep the members watching, and I know because I am consistently in the top row of CB with 5000 viewers at times and I don't use any sort of bots, I even opted out of all the 3rd party advertising and have all of South America, muslim countries, India and Africa blocked. So from my experience, keeping the members watching takes a lot of work on the part of the model and as soon as the interesting bit is over the bulk of them will flock to another room. Members might enter a room with a lot of people just to see what is going on, but they don't stay in a room just because there are a lot of viewers in it.

I am not saying that there aren't models using bots, I am simply questioning the validity of that strategy. Most of the studios who would do something like that are owned by people who have never cammed and have no idea what makes or breaks a show and they think that by throwing money to the air they will somehow have a positive impact on the model's success. Having 10k viewers means nothing if you don't know how to make them spend. Artificially blowing up a model's viewers list doesn't translate into tokens if she doesn't know what she is doing and a model who does know what she is doing doesn't need the bots.

In short: bots have little effect on Chaturbate's dynamics, believe it or not, so it isn't worth a sweat.

 

[megafapper]

@Kitsune Users are dumb. And they stay in the room if room on the one of the first place and even room is empty.
Sometimes, last months it was totally empty room on the first place with more than 10K viewers.
And as wrote before rooms are promoted not only by guests, but by registered users also. If I will be too lazy to configure own farm for user registration than I can buy a lot of registered chaturbate accounts on the market (even with tokens - 1-2 token on each account). So 200-300 registered user accounts is not a problem.

 

[Dan N]

To sum up which is better from model's point of view... 2k-3k bots to get listed on first page tho the tokens earned by the performer are 0 (or below expectations) or 2nd page (or 3rd page) with 5-10 regulars (tippers) and the webcam performer makes ~400 tokens ?
I am asking because from time to time I have to reply to some collaborators which ask if our service can drive traffic to model's room even fake traffic and my answer is the same : "declined"
--- fictive numbers but the idea is the same ---

 

[AudriTwo]

@Kitsune Users are dumb. And they stay in the room if room on the one of the first place and even room is empty.

The model has to figure out how to keep them there. Any site you are on, it's like that if you have low viewers. They aren't dumb, they just simply aren't interested.

Think fishing with tackle. You could have this one lure that has all the bells and whistles on it. Won't catch anything, even the intended fish it was made for. But you have this one special lure, that can catch any kind of fish. A lot of fish too. There is something special about that specific lure. You don't know what it is exactly, because you have tried similar ones. That is pretty much camming in a nut shell.

(Totally spent all day deep sea fishing. It was dope as fuccccccccck)

 

[megafapper]

They aren't dumb, they just simply aren't interested.

Yes single person does not dumb, but crowd is dumb. And ton of real users, especially with new registration goes to the room on the first place especially if room has more than 10K viewers.
So bot promotion works well for new chaturbate users, but not for the regular ones. Some regular users who spend a lot tokens before not in the favorite rooms but in any of first room go away from chaturbate, because first places now are irrelevant.
Registered users bot can be helpful for room not on the first page, but it is dangerous, because yesterday chaturbate banned one room who too often use bots last times.

 

[Lucid1]

I dunno, something is up on CB. A couple of screen caps of users in a certain Venezuelan girl's room over the past few days shows the same usernames in both black and light blue text regardless of the time of day. But the other surprizing thing is that out of 1500+ current users, almost 1000 of them are anonymous. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't anonymous users considered to have a video feed from the model? That seems like an awfully disproportionate ratio where bandwidth costs are concerned for CB itself. I just don't see how they can support that kind of revenue model unless their conversion rate to "paying" registered users is exceptionally high.

The other question would be related to how these "registered user" bots are being registered in the first place. Can a bot register on it's own and defeat the "captcha" requirement, or is someone actually registering them manually?

 

[AudriTwo]

The other question would be related to how these "registered user" bots are being registered in the first place. Can a bot register on it's own and defeat the "captcha" requirement, or is someone actually registering them manually?

I'm assuming manually.

 

[uncoveredmanhole]

But the other surprizing thing is that out of 1500+ current users, almost 1000 of them are anonymous. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't anonymous users considered to have a video feed from the model? That seems like an awfully disproportionate ratio where bandwidth costs are concerned for CB itself.

why does that surprise you?
CB shows up on affiliate sites, people with no CB membership can watch the same uncensored footage registered members see. the only difference is registered greys get to comment [in rooms where the model doesn't silence no-token viewers].

look around CB, click on cams at random. you can invariably rely on this pattern being present:
- over 50% of any room being anons. The only exception would be models who've turned off all the affiliate promotion options or used an anon-block app. usually models leave it as-is because it boosts your room numbers and presumably ranking/exposure. (this percentage is usually even higher for couples cams, more like 75% non-members viewing).
- over 50% of what's left being greys.
- over 50% of the rest never tipping that day.

since anons are most likely exposed to banner ads, CB presumably makes enough off of their presence to warrant allowing them to view.

 

[megafapper]

@uncoveredmanhole
Normal ratio of registered to guests for chaturbate rooms is 1:1. For the first places it can be 1:2. But right now first place sometimes total watching more than 10K with less than 1K registered users.

I'm assuming manually.

Yes, manually, half manually and auto captcha recognition is also possible.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't anonymous users considered to have a video feed from the model?

it depends on type of bot is used. Generally video feed is not needed for visitor counting. Chat has separate connection channel. But some dumb bots that fully emulate browser playing video also.

 

[nikeairmax90]

Nice post about the change in viewers algorithm. I doubt bots would spend THAT much time registering fake accounts.

 

[AnonyMouse]

I have to agree with megafapper that bots seem to be rife on CB and I did notice a sudden surge in Russian models appearing with huge room counts that just didn't seem correct to the content on video feed. You don't get 7000+ in a room where the model is sat staring at the cam looking bored silly, yes it happens when a model is performing a show as we all know. This is also happening on MFC more often than not now yet no action seems to be taken. As example a brand new model with less than 15 mins online broadcast time had 6000+ in her room which was more than double that of the previous month's missmfc #1 winner.

 

[megafapper]

And few words more - huge viewer counter does not mean that the model use bots. Room can be randomly chosen by botnet, because some agencies use this algorithm for own bots when all models from the agency is offline.

 

[megafapper]

Some historical info.

Few months ago it was possible to do bots by everyone, not only by tech specialists. Easy and not very expensive, but not for big fake viewer counters. Create more than 500 viewers was a bit expensive for non specialists.
Some models found the way to increase counter by 10K and more and receive a huge profit (as I say before crowd is dumb, people pay a lot of tokens when model was on the first place with really huge visitor counter even without any performance).

This situation has affected on overall chaturbate performance. And they have decided to switch chat to the new and more modern technology. At that time they tried to increase overall stability of the chaturbate and did not try to fight with bots. I think they thinked that it was not bots but real visitors. Because first times when I contact support they don't understand about what bots I've wrote. And after a lot of screenshots with visitor counters and visitor list in some rooms they start to do their bot prevention shield.

Main problem right now that the switching to the new code has opened doors for more cheap and easy created bots, especially created by tech specialists. Yes, last few weeks chaturbate shield works much better, but not really good. Right now it is hard to do bots for general users, but for the tech guys all doors are open.

Right now not many rooms use bots: one Russian touring escort agency, one Ukrainian webcam agency and one Venezuela webcam agency. Each of them use slightly different approaches for climbing up on the main page and for the increasing visitor counter.

Also service for promotion room with bots is present. Service has not a big pool of registered users (less than 2K) and priority for the each model.
When most promoted room goes offline all bots go the the next room in the queue. Right now this situation can be seen not only by tech guys but and by general users also. When some model from the one of the first places goes offline, at the same time on some model on the 10-15 place visitor counter is increased rapidly and model goes to the one of the first places in less than 5 minutes. Model does not change anything in own show at this period time. And this queue can be found by anyone just viewing chaturbate at the same time in period of week or two.

And few words for the models:
Please don't do stupid shows like "Shhhh... I can not scream! My hamster is here. And he don't know about webcam..."
First places when these shows became "popular" was created exactly by bots. This type of the shows has a long history, but first places for this type can be reached only by bots usually. Yes sometimes it really fun and more funny than the comedy central (funny comments in the chat and really funny show).

 

[Mila_]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't anonymous users considered to have a video feed from the model? That seems like an awfully disproportionate ratio where bandwidth costs are concerned for CB itself. I just don't see how they can support that kind of revenue model unless their conversion rate to "paying" registered users is exceptionally high.

Chaturbate's revenue doesnt come from tokens only. They use 3rd party banners to capitalize on the anonymous users watching. Bots and people watching remotely dont click on banners though.

 

[uncoveredmanhole]

And few words for the models:
Please don't do stupid shows like "Shhhh... I can not scream! My hamster is here. And he don't know about webcam..."
First places when these shows became "popular" was created exactly by bots. This type of the shows has a long history, but first places for this type can be reached only by bots usually. Yes sometimes it really fun and more funny than the comedy central (funny comments in the chat and really funny show).

we're not all living in our own private mansions. sometimes we do actually have to be quiet.

 

[megafapper]

we're not all living in our own private mansions. sometimes we do actually have to be quiet.

It does not a problem to be quiet. Problem is doing a stupid shows. Because trend and popularity for this type of shows was created artificially by models that use botnets for own promotion.

 

[uncoveredmanhole]

trend and popularity for this type of shows was created artificially by models that use botnets for own promotion.

how d'you draw that connection?

 

[ExcellaExe]

I have to agree with megafapper that bots seem to be rife on CB and I did notice a sudden surge in Russian models appearing with huge room counts that just didn't seem correct to the content on video feed. You don't get 7000+ in a room where the model is sat staring at the cam looking bored silly, yes it happens when a model is performing a show as we all know. This is also happening on MFC more often than not now yet no action seems to be taken. As example a brand new model with less than 15 mins online broadcast time had 6000+ in her room which was more than double that of the previous month's missmfc #1 winner.

That girl was a twitch streamer with a huge fanbase. It's not really the same. She brought her fans with her to MFC.

 

[uncoveredmanhole]

is this the kinda thing this thread is about?

7000 "people" fascinated by 2 homely Romanians in a kitchen on their cellphones ignoring each other and the audience?

they were face-to-cam when their tip toys activated, but went right back to this view that really doesn't require me to blur or black out anything before uploading (not sure about the etiquette here, but it seems to be ok judging by one of the threads referenced in the lighting help thread)

 

[AnonyMouse]

That girl was a twitch streamer with a huge fanbase. It's not really the same. She brought her fans with her to MFC.

What I'm talking about was way before that thing from twitch decided to park itself on mfc

 

[nzhere]

SO where is proof that any of those users are bots? if you go on a popular site like
http://anon-ib.la/cam/
with adblock turned off you will see CB most popular room at bottom page by default that alone could add thousands of users to a room.

 

[AnonyMouse]

SO where is proof that any of those users are bots? if you go on a popular site like
http://anon-ib.la/cam/
with adblock turned off you will see CB most popular room at bottom page by default that alone could add thousands of users to a room.

The proof on mfc is easy.
Bring up a models room up in a popout, scroll down to guest count, unbotted rooms guest count is instant, botted rooms seem to take a while to load.
The model goes private, group or turns cam off yet all those guests still sit in the room.
Room count 275, you go in room and there are 3 members
After a a long period of observing rooms, guests on MFC are in the range of 60% - 70% on average over all rooms.
80% very likely botted. 90% For sure botted.
Change your sorting from camscore to people in room and just watch the amount between 100 - 300
You will see models with 200 camscores with more in people in the room than a model with a 10000 camcore

 

[Mila_]

That girl was a twitch streamer with a huge fanbase. It's not really the same. She brought her fans with her to MFC.

I keep hearing about her but have no idea who she is. Can anyone say her model name or DM me the info?