Gun Raffle Insensitive?

[Bocefish]

What say you?

Just FYI... events like this generally begin 8-14 months ahead of time.

"Lake County Republicans are moving ahead with plans to raffle-off at least a dozen guns just a dozen days after America’s worst modern-day mass shooting.

The Lake County GOP said the plans had been in the works for over a year and it was too late to change now. But it was not too late to help raise money for police who responded to the tragedy in Las Vegas.

Among the guns being raffled off is an AR-15-style semi-automatic rifle.

“I’m sure there will be people that don’t agree with what we’re doing, but that’s the democratic process,” Mark Shaw, Lake County Republican Committee, said. “I say [to those that disagree] that the Second Amendment says what it says and that it is in the constitution.”

It’s all right there in the name of the event--The Second Amendment Dinner and Gun Raffle. Along with the “Rifle Raffle,” there’s a 12-guage shotgun, 9-millimeter handgun and other gun offerings up for grabs.

It’s the first event of its kind for Lake County Republicans but it’s certainly not the first event of its kind in Lake County, not even recently. It’s just the timing being close to the massacre in Las Vegas.

Organizers said it’s too late to change course to return deposits and change plans that began long ago. So, the charitable portion of the event will benefit first responders in Las Vegas.

“The fact that one sick individual decided to kill and injure so many innocent people doesn’t mean that the Second Amendment isn’t something that should be protected,” Shaw said.

Organizers said Friday’s event will provide a big chunk of money to support Las Vegas law enforcement.

Local Democrats, among them State Senator Terry Link, said they’re showing incredible disrespect to the 58 victims of last week's mass shooting."

ETA: raffle winner has to go through all the paperwork, background checks... before he or she can pick up said gun from a reputable dealer.

 

[zippypinhead]

Which Lake County?

 

[Bocefish]

The one with lakes in it.

Why does it matter?

 

[zippypinhead]

The one with lakes in it.

Why does it matter?

Because if it's Lake County, Nevada, then yes, it's insensitive. If it's Lake County, North Carolina, then maybe it's a bit of a gray area. EDIT: Or not. North Carolina has had its own mass shootings in recent memory. Either way, context is key.

EDIT AGAIN: Apparently, there is no Lake County in North Carolina. So, let's go with Florida or something.

Considering that mass shootings (defined as three or more people shot) happen pretty much daily in the US, I don't see that there's ever a good time to hold a public gun raffle, and avoid the association with gun violence at this point.

 

[Bocefish]

I do understand where you're coming from.

From what I heard on the radio, this raffle was held at an American Legion post.

Does that change your stance on the issue?

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Apparently it is in Illinois. Ironic.

http://abc7chicago.com/lake-county-republicans-raffle-off-guns-at-fundraiser/2529762/

"It's one thing getting a shotgun to go duck hunting or pheasant hunting that's one person's prerogative if they're a law abiding citizen, but there's no reason for these AR-K's," said Sen. Link.

Considering how corrupt and hypocritical the Democrats are increasingly proving to be, is virtue signalling with a "D" next to your name not an insult to intelligence? Is that not insensitive to anyone with an IQ above 70?

Media whores. Corrupt Wall Street fatcats. Warmongering liars. Opportunistic manipulators. Power hungry panderers. Racists. Rapists. Murderers.

May those white-washed Pharisees rot in the everlasting fires of hell, right alongside the evil ones they make a pretense of being opposed to. Fuck sensitivity. They are utter frauds.

Peas in a pod.

The one with lakes in it.

Why does it matter?

From what I heard on the radio, this raffle was held at an American Legion post.

Does that change your stance on the issue?

Honestly Boce, must you?

 

[Bocefish]

Honestly Boce, must you?

No, but I was bored.

Attaching emotion to an inanimate object makes no sense to me.

When some nut job uses a white van to mow down and kill innocent people, should white vans not be raffled off to help others?

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Attaching emotion to an inanimate object makes no sense to me.

When some nut job uses a white van to mow down and kill innocent people, should white vans not be raffled off to help others?

I think the nanny state needs to treat raffling off an AR the same as they would raffling off an 8 ball of coke.

 

[zippypinhead]

I do understand where you're coming from.

From what I heard on the radio, this raffle was held at an American Legion post.

Does that change your stance on the issue?

My stance is fairly neutral, to be honest.

But, hey, you've come here to have it out, so I'll strike the match.

The ease of access and availability of guns, to the point that they are nonchalantly raffled off like a church lady's rhubarb pie, should rightly be treated as a concern. More problematic to me, though, is the clear evidence that there are a whole lot of people out there who believe they are fighting a secret war in this country, and since it's war, there must be a body count. How does that not fuck with the #notallguns apologists?

When some nut job uses a white van to mow down and kill innocent people, should white vans not be raffled off to help others?

Or, for that matter, Dodge Challengers?

 

[Bocefish]

The ease of access and availability of guns, to the point that they are nonchalantly raffled off like a church lady's rhubarb pie, should rightly be treated as a concern.

Now yer talking... the amount of sugar in the church lady's rhubarb pie should be a major health concern.

 

[Bocefish]

I think the nanny state needs to treat raffling off an AR the same as they would raffling off an 8 ball of coke.

LOL

 

[dilligaf0]

ETA: raffle winner has to go through all the paperwork, background checks... before he or she can pick up said gun from a reputable dealer.

If the raffle winner doesn't pass the checks, did they waste their money?
I wouldn't do a raffle like that or enter one, but they have the right to do so if they wish.
I just hope some nutjob doesn't use any of them to kill innocent people.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

If the raffle winner doesn't pass the checks, did they waste their money?
I wouldn't do a raffle like that or enter one, but they have the right to do so if they wish.
I just hope some nutjob doesn't use any of them to kill innocent people.

I've been to several charity events where a rifle was raffled off. I believe every one of them have clearly stated up front, usually in a letter right on the table showing the firearm, that all entries are considered a donation. And failure to pass a background check is not the responsibility of the event itself. Should they not pass, they don't get the gun, and the winning ticket is non transferable. That way they can't just use a family members background check as a work around to getting the gun anyway. They almost always keep those entries until the winner has picked up the item. That way they can draw another winner if needed. Yes, you have to put a name and contact number on the back of the raffle ticket. That way you need not be present to win.

Most of the events I've been to that raffle off a rifle like that are for some local person with medical problems. Last one, a poker tournament, was for a local cabinet maker with stage 4 pancreatic cancer who had a wife and three children under the age of 6 being left behind. The rifle from that (there were 3 actually) was donated by a local gun shop who also got free advertising on the posters for the event. Nice one with a scope, drew in a full house.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

The ease of access and availability of guns, to the point that they are nonchalantly raffled off like a church lady's rhubarb pie, should rightly be treated as a concern.

An occasional raffle is probably the least worrisome part.



Bullshit? I don't know. I was hearing similar things about cocaine back in the late 80s early 90s, and wrote it off as Soviet propaganda.

Or consider things like this (a staunch proponent of gun regulation no less ).

I am afraid the horse is out of the barn as far as access and availability goes. How many others like this haven't been caught? How many foreign nationals do we have in the country right now with weapon caches? Is Antifa really arming, or are reports of that just right-wing flame fanning?

More problematic to me, though, is the clear evidence that there are a whole lot of people out there who believe they are fighting a secret war in this country, and since it's war, there must be a body count.

You mean like these guys?




No idea who either one of them are, whether they are legit or what.

It is interesting though; striking up irl conversations with strangers over the last 6 months about whatever news happens to be in the headlines, I've run across several people expressing similar sentiments.

 

[DFT]

I know France has banned internal combustion engines by 2040. No bans on 12 ton trucks. Odd that. 86 dead.

Norway - 77 dead at the hand of Anders Behring Breivik. We'll see if his 21 year prison sentence gets extended.

Wait, what? Aren't we meant to be the worst in the world?

I'll keep entering bank raffles for deadly items like trucks, toasters and guns.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I know France has banned internal combustion engines by 2040. No bans on 12 ton trucks. Odd that. 86 dead.

Norway - 77 dead at the hand of Anders Behring Breivik. We'll see if his 21 year prison sentence gets extended.

Wait, what? Aren't we meant to be the worst in the world?

I'll keep entering bank raffles for deadly items like trucks, toasters and guns.

Lest we forget...
Over 320 Dead After Somalia Truck Explosion

 

[JickyJuly]

Don't they always do these raffles at gun shows? I've only been to a couple and only as a kid, but I remember that happening. I don't really see the point in feigning sensitivity to mass shootings. We're desensitized. Politicians are too far up the NRA's ass to even regulate weapons that don't require any skill, and they've brainwashed their weakest constituents into thinking regulation will lead to the downfall of America. If we're not going to do anything but pray every time some loon takes a bunch of folks out, we might as well keep raffling.

 

[dilligaf0]

There are many reasons for people to own multiple guns, Hunting, collecting, personal protection to name a few.
If someone has over 50 guns should be known to authorities just in case the collector becomes mentally unstable or starts threatening others. It's not a cure-all, but nothing is.
If you're looking for a 100% solution to all violence using any means possible, go chase rainbows....you'll be just as successful.
But at least trying to slow the shit down is a start.

 

[AmberCutie]

If you're looking for a 100% solution to all violence using any means possible, go chase rainbows....you'll be just as successful.

I think the reason a lot of debates about gun control go nowhere is because very few acknowledge this.

 

[JoleneBrody]

It's pretty tacky. Insensitive maybe but in my opinion, just embarrassingly tacky. As would a white van raffle to benefit the victims of a white van massacre. Would be much less tacky to donate to ANY other charity.

It also doesn't seem like something really worth giving a shit about either. Tacky people gonna be tacky.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

I think the reason a lot of debates about gun control go nowhere is because very few acknowledge this.

Too many think blaming the firearm is the solution. Problem is, I can turn anything into a weapon. Want to see security go on high alert, should hear conversations I have with TSA, LEO, etc whom say I can't have a weapon on me (FYI, I nearly always have a knife on me for utility/work purposes).
I explain to the security team that I can turn their pens, badges, belts, paper, etc into a weapon and they give me a stupid look until I explain an item is just that, an item or tool. They become a "weapon" because of intent.
So few recognize that...

I do not think this raffle is insensitive. I think the world has gone soft.

 

[AmberCutie]

conversations I have with TSA, LEO, etc

I explain to the security team that I can turn their pens, badges, belts, paper, etc into a weapon and they give me a stupid look until I explain an item is just that, an item or tool.

Please tell me you don't stand in line at security check at the airport and actually have that conversation.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

Please tell me you don't stand in line at security check at the airport and actually have that conversation.

It wasn't in line. Rather, side conversation, etc. But, have had said conversation with many different "security" personnel while on the job.

 

[dilligaf0]

Too many think blaming the firearm is the solution. Problem is, I can turn anything into a weapon. Want to see security go on high alert, should hear conversations I have with TSA, LEO, etc whom say I can't have a weapon on me (FYI, I nearly always have a knife on me for utility/work purposes).
I explain to the security team that I can turn their pens, badges, belts, paper, etc into a weapon and they give me a stupid look until I explain an item is just that, an item or tool. They become a "weapon" because of intent.
So few recognize that...

I do not think this raffle is insensitive. I think the world has gone soft.

And this is exactly my point. You will never find a 100% solution to deadly violence. But just as we have laws to try to stop drunk drivers from getting behind the wheel and killing people, trying to limit access to deadly weapons from mentally unstable people is a reasonable step to try to help limit and eliminate some gun deaths. It isn't a cure all but maybe it would be a start.

 

[Ms_Gingersnatch]

Too many think blaming the firearm is the solution. Problem is, I can turn anything into a weapon. Want to see security go on high alert, should hear conversations I have with TSA, LEO, etc whom say I can't have a weapon on me (FYI, I nearly always have a knife on me for utility/work purposes).
I explain to the security team that I can turn their pens, badges, belts, paper, etc into a weapon and they give me a stupid look until I explain an item is just that, an item or tool. They become a "weapon" because of intent.
So few recognize that...

I do not think this raffle is insensitive. I think the world has gone soft.

Has this conversation ever resulted in being permitted to carry your knife on a plane? Not even being sarcastic, just curious to know how that plays out...

I have found that being honest about the existence and location of a buttplug in my carry-on really expedites the luggage searching process, but I just don't see that translating well to honesty about your ability to weaponize all the things.

 

[mynameisbob84]

Too many think blaming the firearm is the solution. Problem is, I can turn anything into a weapon. Want to see security go on high alert, should hear conversations I have with TSA, LEO, etc whom say I can't have a weapon on me (FYI, I nearly always have a knife on me for utility/work purposes).
I explain to the security team that I can turn their pens, badges, belts, paper, etc into a weapon and they give me a stupid look until I explain an item is just that, an item or tool. They become a "weapon" because of intent.
So few recognize that...

I do not think this raffle is insensitive. I think the world has gone soft.

By this logic though, you presumably have no problem with someone like Kim Jong Un having access to nuclear weapons? After all, pens can be dangerous too...

 

[Deleted member 37064]

Has this conversation ever resulted in being permitted to carry your knife on a plane? Not even being sarcastic, just curious to know how that plays out...

I have found that being honest about the existence and location of a buttplug in my carry-on really expedites the luggage searching process, but I just don't see that translating well to honesty about your ability to weaponize all the things.

Where did I say that I tried to bring my knife on a plane since the ban in 2001? I didn't. My point is that a "weapon" is an object you use with intent to hurt someone. For example, a pen is a writing instrument. However, it makes one hell of a jabbing weapon. Use that as a leverage for pressure points on a person's body and they'll pretty much do anything you want them to. Or, worse, makes a great jabbing/stabbing weapon.
Butt plug? Is it one of the crystal ones with a slight rounded point on the end? Put the narrow part between fingers, and can do some serious damage punching someone. Ever see or hear about people using keys as a striking weapon? Same basic concept.
Belt? Plenty of uses, especially considering the different types of materials they are made from.
Again, an item is an inanimate object. A little creativity, and understanding of use, and you can pretty much weaponize many/most everyday items people wouldn't even consider.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

And this is exactly my point. You will never find a 100% solution to deadly violence. But just as we have laws to try to stop drunk drivers from getting behind the wheel and killing people, trying to limit access to deadly weapons from mentally unstable people is a reasonable step to try to help limit and eliminate some gun deaths. It isn't a cure all but maybe it would be a start.

How do you explain people who haven't had a license in years, and have over 30 DWI/DUI convictions. Yet, can still get behind the wheel and kill someone because they were out driving drunk? Laws don't apply to those with malicious intent.

We already have fairly strict laws regarding firearm ownership. But, just like my example above, laws only apply to those who follow them. Do you honestly think that a sign on the door saying fireams are banned will prevent someone with intent to harm/kill with one?

Perhaps you're forgetting about the guy in China who attacked and killed twenty people during the Beijing Olympics? Gun? Nope, did it with a knife. Ever see the wound a 2" blade from a Swiss Army knife can produce? I have. Bitch to sew up with stitches... Docs did a hell of a job sewing his back up. However, he's got some gnarly scars now all over his back. Worst one goes from left delt all the way diagonally down to lower ribs on his right side.

By this logic though, you presumably have no problem with someone like Kim Jong Un having access to nuclear weapons? After all, pens can be dangerous too...

Incorrect, and ignorant statement on your part. Or, you're trying to be a troll.


Personally, I don't like nukes and I don't think they should exist at all.

I'm a firm believer in supporting our Second Amendment rights, as well as all of our rights. But, that doesn't mean that I'm opposed to background checks, required training (classroom and proficiency) for permits to carry and a few simple other laws/rules which are already in place. I just think that too many fail to rationalize certain things, and only react out of emotions. Which, by nearly all accounts is the worst possible way to implement laws, regulations, and restrictions.

If you paid attention to my comments, I was pointing out the differences between an inanimate object and how it becomes a weapon. Is a hammer a tool, or is it a weapon? What about a steak knife? Spoon? Pen? Credit card or driver's license? Think about it, and different ways you can physically harm someone with them.

 

[dilligaf0]

I'm a firm believer in supporting our Second Amendment rights, as well as all of our rights. But, that doesn't mean that I'm opposed to background checks, required training (classroom and proficiency) for permits to carry and a few simple other laws/rules which are already in place. I just think that too many fail to rationalize certain things, and only react out of emotions. Which, by nearly all accounts is the worst possible way to implement laws, regulations, and restrictions.

On this point we're saying the same thing. Just follow through with what we have to try to stop some of the madness.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

On this point we're saying the same thing. Just follow through with what we have to try to stop some of the madness.

Unfortunately, the only real way to stop anything is to address the true root of the problem: the human psyche and all the many facets of it. Including the deep, dark recesses which people don't really want to talk about. Especially if it reflects heavily upon themselves.