Gun Carry Policies, Part 2

[justjoinedtopost]

Say someone bullies you, you pull a gun on them, they pull theirs on you, and then where does the situation go from there?

 

[WebcamStartup]

From my perspective, adding guns to every potentially heated situation (bullying, road rage, firing an employee of 20 years, whatever) seems like it would increase violence. Think of someone getting mad and punching a wall, except they have a weapon at hand. I'm curious how that would mitigate bullying or violence? Say someone bullies you, you pull a gun on them, they pull theirs on you, and then where does the situation go from there?

People are scared of spiders because they bite. They are small, easy to crush and not a competition for a human because the human can easily crush them. But they can bite. They've got a weapon. For that reason, humans are scared of them and will even think twice about trying to fuck with one.

A bully can beat up a 'mark' (for lack of better words) easily. But if the mark is able to bite [armed], the bully will think twice, even though the bully is bigger and should easily be able to boss-up on his victim. It's all about the venom.

I've been sucking at analogies, so hopefully this one works

 

[Gen]

People are scared of spiders because they bite. They are small, easy to crush and not a competition for a human because the human can easily crush them. But they can bite. They've got a weapon. For that reason, humans are scared of them and will even think twice about trying to fuck with one.

A bully can beat up a 'mark' (for lack of better words) easily. But if the mark is able to bite [armed], the bully will think twice, even though the bully is bigger and should easily be able to boss-up on his victim. It's all about the venom.

I've been sucking at analogies, so hopefully this one works

But the bully also had a gun. So what happens if both people pull out theirs? How does that situation de-escalate? That's what I'm really curious about, because I think having a weapon at hand during a bad situation would be likely to escalate them more than the opposite.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

People are scared of spiders because they bite.

I am not nearly as scared of getting bit as I am of getting crawled on. That shit creeps me out for days.

But the bully also had a gun. So what happens if both people pull out theirs? How does that situation de-escalate? That's what I'm really curious about, because I think having a weapon at hand during a bad situation would be likely to escalate them more than the opposite.

Also worth mentioning, think what it would do to the police if everyone was armed. They already tend to be a little trigger happy at times in the US.

I suppose it would save the occasional bad apple from having to go to the trouble of planting a gun on someone.

 

[Serenity_Tam]

I realized the second part was missing.

This is everything to me.

 

[WebcamStartup]

But the bully also had a gun. So what happens if both people pull out theirs? How does that situation de-escalate? That's what I'm really curious about, because I think having a weapon at hand during a bad situation would be likely to escalate them more than the opposite.

In theory, it should mitigate confrontation to begin with. Try flipping the scripts and putting yourself in the confrontors position. If you're able to mess with the person because you're bigger or better armed, you are not at risk. If your victim can end you just as easily as you can end them, they are no longer pray and more of an equal. Predators pick on the weakest; whether it's a bully or a creature taking down pray.

It's why pirates raided merchant ships and not the armada, why lions kill the weakest of the pack and why people have been oppressed for centuries. The strong is not threatened unless the weak can achieve a position of enough power to at least pose a threat to those that threaten them.

It also escalates the offense from harassment or assault to assault with a deadly weapon or worst.

So, the consequences went from next-to-nothing to possibly fatal.

 

[WebcamStartup]

I am not nearly as scared of getting bit as I am of getting crawled on. That shit creeps me out for days.
Also worth mentioning, think what it would do to the police if everyone was armed. They already tend to be a little trigger happy at times in the US.

I suppose it would save the occasional bad apple from having to go to the trouble of planting a gun on someone.

I've had police tell my family that if they seen me operating a motor vehicle, they'd shoot me on sight, all justified because I was in possession of a deadly weapon (vehicular assault). Same police force that has pulled me over for "stolen licence plates" just to run through my car. Police will find a reason and/or justification. Fuckers. I've got zero respect for the police-state and/or nanny-state.

And, on the flip-side, (and not trying to open up a can-of-worms, as I'm sure there's all sorts of feelings on this) but look how law enforcement handled the Oregon Standoff. They treated the ranchers diplomatically, as they were an equal to local authorities (firepower-wise). No one was trigger-happy, because nobody wanted to kick-off something they couldn't handle.

One could speculate that a similar stance might be taken by law enforcement elsewhere. Keep in mind, this is completely theoretical and pure speculation. Take it with a grain of salt and your opinion holds just as much weight as mine, regardless of the talking points.

And to add some contrast; Police had no problem pepper-spraying random Occupiers. Maybe Occupy should have been strapped.......

 

[JickyJuly]

In theory, it should mitigate confrontation to begin with.

You're giving people WAY, way too much credit with this line of thinking. A large portion of our population runs on emotion. Your emotions form when you're like 5. So, every time we're acting on emotion, we're giant toddlers. Giant toddlers aren't thinking through what they do with their toys. Even if 90% of people think through to the consequences of their actions, that leaves us with a huge number of angry, entitled babies with no business bringing a gun to any fight. Some people when armed are automatically going to look for a target. I have a friend who spent part of his life in prison because he had a gun with him, got drunk and shot some dude in the knee cap for "disrespecting" his date. He told me he didn't even like his date. He just had a gun and too much to drink. I'm all for gun smart civilians who take the time to learn safety and respect gun laws remaining armed. But, I'm not sure where the idea that most people can handle that or should automatically be trusted with weaponry is coming from? If you live where there are not irresponsible idiots running around acting aggro over tiny things, I want to visit your beautiful land.

 

[WebcamStartup]

You're giving people WAY, way too much credit with this line of thinking. A large portion of our population runs on emotion. Your emotions form when you're like 5. So, every time we're acting on emotion, we're giant toddlers. Giant toddlers aren't thinking through what they do with their toys. Even if 90% of people think through to the consequences of their actions, that leaves us with a huge number of angry, entitled babies with no business bringing a gun to any fight. Some people when armed are automatically going to look for a target. I have a friend who spent part of his life in prison because he had a gun with him, got drunk and shot some dude in the knee cap for "disrespecting" his date. He told me he didn't even like his date. He just had a gun and too much to drink. I'm all for gun smart civilians who take the time to learn safety and respect gun laws remaining armed. But, I'm not sure where the idea that most people can handle that or should automatically be trusted with weaponry is coming from? If you live where there are not irresponsible idiots running around acting aggro over tiny things, I want to visit your beautiful land.

Was the person who got shot in the kneecap armed? What about his friends?

Have you ever had a gun in your face?

 

[JickyJuly]

Was the person who got shot in the kneecap armed? What about his friends?
Have you ever had a gun in your face?

I'm not sure if the knee capless dude was armed. It was a biker bar. So, I doubt my friend was the only armed person in there. He is the only one who went to prison.
I've had a gun pulled on me, yes.

 

[WebcamStartup]

I'm not sure if the knee capless dude was armed. It was a biker bar. So, I doubt my friend was the only armed person in there. He is the only one who went to prison.
I've had a gun pulled on me, yes.

I've been in that boat, too (Not the biker bar kneecap bit, but the gun in the face). It makes you think twice and act cool. Luckily, my situation was just someone trying to boss-up and look bad.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Had 2 pointed at me.

1st was during a robbery of a store. Calm as shit when it happened. Screwed with my head for weeks afterwards though.

2nd was at a gun range. The legal gun owner next to me stepped on a piece of brass, and it pissed him off. He went nuts cursing and kicking it, all while waving down the range with his finger still on the trigger. Last time I went to the range with that jackass.

If I had to pick one to do over again, I would go with the 1st.

 

[swagger]

For some background, I grew up in Mississippi, I got my first rifle at age 9, which was much later than most of my friends. At my school, on Tuesdays, in the 4th grade, we had to bring our rifle to class for hunting and rifle safety. Imagine that, bunch of 4th graders getting into trouble if they didn't bring their guns to school. Decades later, I own guns, I have a CCP, and I carry several times a week as part of my job is moving large amounts of cash. I am pro 2nd amendment.

That said, I believe open carry, outside of very rare circumstance is a tactical disadvantage and more of a political or ego statement more than anything else. I think we're not teaching something I was taught when I was young. When you put on a gun, it should change you, it does change you. Sadly, in ways that I don't always wish, when I put on my gun, I'm far less likely to experience road rage, far more likely to apologize to avoid a fight. If things go poorly, my options are immediately nuclear and the ramifications potentially endless. A gun is a tool, or in video game speak, a buff that gives incredible power to it's user, it should be held with the utmost respect. I wish all my gun toting brethren thought similarly, but I'm aware they don't and frankly it pisses me off. So while I'll defend my 2nd amendment rights vehemently, I'm not all that thrilled by some of the folks I'm standing next to.

(voted No)

 

[mynameisbob84]

Still think it would reduce crime and violence though. I also believe it would help mitigate bullying and other forms of negative reinforcement.

I get that some people like guns, that some people fetishize guns, that some people feel entitled to guns, and I get that some people feel that having a gun makes them safer, and that for some people, having a gun really does make them safer, but to suggest that enforced gun ownership would cut down on violent crime, gun crime in particular, and make the world a safer place is batshit crazy. More guns = more gun crime. It's that simple. To pretend otherwise is to be wilfully detached from reality.

 

[JoleneBrody]

I've never personally known a single person who open carried that was NOT also a narcissistic nut job who thought the world was out to get him. I do not even remotely think open carry breeds anything but inflated egos and uncomfortable situations where they need not be.
Aside from my trained professional friends and family members... police officers and what not. This is of course just my opinion based on my personal experiences and it's ok if you don't agree.

 

[fandango]

Maybe it'd make the Politicos think twice about pissing off the general population, too.

Sorry for derailing almost the entire first page of this thread with a WTF rating but it was this line that made me put it. Actually reading it for a second time it was probably a joke or throwaway line and if it was I'll take it back but if your solution for some politicians you disagree with really is to storm their building and wave guns in their faces then WTF dude.

 

[Mikey_P]

I'm speaking without knowing for 100% certainty, but I actually think per capita there is higher gun ownership in Switzerland than USA. Raw number of gun owners, hell no. I actually believe per capita, yes. I'm going to have to see if I can find those numbers so I can talk with certainty on this.

I honestly think the concept would work out better. Sure, you'll have "events", but homicide isn't something new, so "events" already occur. ALTHOUGH I am highly against all forms of mandates, so fuck that shit. Still think it would reduce crime and violence though. I also believe it would help mitigate bullying and other forms of negative reinforcement.

From my understanding, their past gun ownership requirement was to be ready for war so they mostly own rifles and not handguns. They are not a good example to compare with America and all the crime we have. We have far more poverty than they do and that is where our gun violence stems from. Solve poverty and we automatically lower our gun violence rates.

 

[Sevrin]

From my understanding, their past gun ownership requirement was to be ready for war so they mostly own rifles and not handguns. They are not a good example to compare with America and all the crime we have. We have far more poverty than they do and that is where our gun violence stems from. Solve poverty and we automatically lower our gun violence rates.

According to this survey, the rate of gun ownership in the U.S. is near twice that of Switzerland. Military service in Switzerland is compulsory for male citizens, and after their enlistment period, these men enter the reserves and are issued a rifle and a couple dozen rounds of ammo.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

According to this survey, the rate of gun ownership in the U.S. is near twice that of Switzerland. Military service in Switzerland is compulsory for male citizens, and after their enlistment period, these men enter the reserves and are issued a rifle and a couple dozen rounds of ammo.

I think the key difference there is the 'per capita' figure. Yes the U.S. has the highest per capita ownership. But that just means take all the guns and divide by number of people. If you start digging into it you find that only around 32% of American homes actually have a gun. So around 32% of the population owns much more than one gun. And that number has been declining for years. There's really not any studies i've ever been able to find on 'number of homes' containing guns for other countries. Everything focuses on per capita.

So it's reasonable to think if every male in Switzerland is issued a rilfe after serving in the military, then the total number of homes having a gun there would actually be higher than the U.S.. I can't back that up with anything because I don't think other countries bother to look at it that way. But it seems logical.

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One other thing I would like to point out based on that percentage of homes owning guns is what that actually means. Every one from another country has this image of 270 million guns. And it says that means 89 guns per 100 residents. So that must mean we all walk around just loaded down with guns RIGHT???. But I'd just like to point out the actual math on that.

There's 318 million people in the U.S.. Also 2.54 people per home. So...


Less than 7 guns per home - not every home, just those which have guns.

That's actually a low number if you start thinking about it. In a household that believes in the right to possess firearms you would easily see a handgun for self defense. Maybe a 2nd for the wife. A 12 gauge pump shotgun as well. They might have grown up hunting. So they would have a deer rifle for sure, a good one they bought when the could afford it, plus another they were given as a kid. They might also have a larger caliber for elk or other large game if they do that. Maybe another one or two handed down in the family. A smaller rifle, like a .22, for small game. Maybe a 20 gauge shotgun for rabbits. Another better 12 gauge with various chokes for it to do turkey hunting. Then there's the whole black powder enthusiasts as well.

There's also the whole 'collector' mentality. There are rather nice collectible firearms that have been made throughout the years and are highly collectible. Those are just meant to be put in display cases. (the collectible market accounts for a huge percentage of total guns owned I think)

If you actually put thought behind the numbers, less than 7 guns per household is easily done. We aren't all walking around toting guns. That's just fear-mongering nonsense.

 

[n_i_c_u]

I had a pump bb gun when I was a kid. I never ever shot my eye (in the movies here that is a thing) and I was surprised my parents allowed me and my brother to have one--I personally I think they wanted us to use them to go after the squirrels in our yard so they didn't have to hire people to get rid of those beasts.

My dad had been teaching his grandson (my nephew) about real guns and a long time ago I asked him why he never taught me the same stuff he was teaching my nephew (I guess I was feeling a little left out as Dads here are often sharing their gun knowledge with their children). He said "I was afraid you would shoot me." To this day I wonder about that statement: did he really think I would shoot him (?), and, if so, did he think i would do it on purpose or it would be an accident? Never really figured it out what he meant.

I voted no on the poll. People are weird and I've seen what happens here (on the news) where people carry guns into local municipal law making sessions and start shooting. Even though there is a guard on hand, crazy people can be crazy and it sucks when they have a gun.