Got religion?

[LuckySmiles]

@JerryBoBerry @iAmMegaGirl
that and not all sects of christianity interpret all of the bible literally. I went to Catholic school and they always taught us that these were stories to teach lessons. I guess they pick and choose though.. because I'm pretty sure the Jesus related stuff (new testament) was considered to really happen, but I remember being taught the old testament stories (Noah and the ark etc) were not to be taken as literal.

I must have been raised on Catholic lite or something haha. Maybe that's why I'm not resentful about it.

 

[iAmMegaGirl]

Okay. I'm flipping back over into my religious upbringing here.

The short answer to that is, he didn't kill any one. They killed themselves in the flood.

Now for the long reasoning behind that short answer.

God didn't order Noah to just up and build an ark one day and then surprise flood the world the next so he could kill off everyone. Well before the flood, 120 years, God let man know there was going to be a separation of his presence from the evil man had become and he was not happy with the current situation.

Genesis 6:3-6

But God didn't just order Noah to build an ark, he also called on him to preach to all the unrighteous.
2 Peter 2:5

And he allowed time for Noah to try to convince people to turn from their wicked ways.
1 Peter 3:20


So God let people know judgement was coming long before, had Noah preach to everyone to turn away from sin and join him on the ark, and gave them all time to come to the righteous decision while the ark was being built. In the end no one outside Noah's family came when the flood began. It wasn't God who killed them all, it was themselves. The people would be at fault even for the children, since it was they who refused to bring them to the ark.

[/end religious upringing]

All of that makes better sense applied to the adults, but no sense at all when applied to all of the infants that would've died in the flood as well.

 

[iAmMegaGirl]

@JerryBoBerry @iAmMegaGirl
that and not all sects of christianity interpret all of the bible literally. I went to Catholic school and they always taught us that these were stories to teach lessons. I guess they pick and choose though.. because I'm pretty sure the Jesus related stuff (new testament) was considered to really happen, but I remember being taught the old testament stories (Noah and the ark etc) were not to be taken as literal.

I must have been raised on Catholic lite or something haha. Maybe that's why I'm not resentful about it.

I think that you missed my point. Whether it happened, or it's just a lesson. I don't see how you can take away "God is all loving" from him killing innocent children.

 

[LuckySmiles]

I guess the vengeful spiteful thing wasnt as drilled in to my head in my experience. It was more the do a bad thing, go to confession and say sorry, go to church on Sunday. And they were always kind of like, no matter what you do you'll be forgiven if you ask to be. I wasn't taught to be afraid of floods and lightening strikes or whatever.

 

[iAmMegaGirl]

I guess the vengeful spiteful thing wasnt as drilled in to my head in my experience. It was more the do a bad thing, go to confession and say sorry, go to church on Sunday. And they were always kind of like, no matter what you do you'll be forgiven if you ask to be. I wasn't taught to be afraid of floods and lightening strikes or whatever.

I think that's why it's so easy for us (Americans) to look at religion as not as bad as it really is. The majority of us don't take the actual words in the book seriously at all. We just make our own religion on the fly and discard all the really crazy stuff. But over seas (middle east, africa, even mexico) they take these religions sooooo seriously people die every day because the books say that's what should be happening.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

I think that's why it's so easy for us (Americans) to look at religion as not as bad as it really is. The majority of us don't take the actual words in the book seriously at all.

Before I deconverted (also American), I took all of it very seriously. But the Christianity I came from was very dark, angry, judgmental.

I justified the crazy stuff with a "might makes right" mentality. If God ordered a genocide, then it was right, because God said to do it. Hearing religious people on the fringes call for the death penalty for homosexuality appalls me, but when I read such things in the Bible, I didn't bat an eye.

 

[Violet Dawn]

Serious question. Anyone here who went to church as a child, or adult have horrible experiences? I've heard things like one of my friends said when he went to church they told him if he so much as hugged another guy he'd end up gay. When I was in church, youth group, or youth camps I never experienced anything close to that. I did, however, experience stuff like that on a daily basis at home, and from my boyfriend at the time. Just not at church. Church was actually a pleasant escape from my home life. I loved everyone there because they were the kindest and least judgy people I've actually ever met. So, have any of you experienced shitty churches in the sense of just being downright cruel? (For the record I did go to Baptist Christian churches)

 

[Entertainer33]

I went to Catholic school. I was taught that the Old Testament was stories to be interpreted and not taken literally. Jesus was the new Gospel and He was all that mattered.

I was also taught that we should respect other religions within Christianity since they simply decide to worship God in a slightly different way. I left after sixth grade, so I don't know what would happen when we got older, but I was taught a lot on the love end, and had a lot of glossing over of the bad stuff.

So, I had only positive experiences at my local Catholic upbringing. It was seeing the rest of the world and experiencing life that showed me the ugly side of faith and made me into the spiritualist I am.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Serious question. Anyone here who went to church as a child, or adult have horrible experiences? I've heard things like one of my friends said when he went to church they told him if he so much as hugged another guy he'd end up gay. When I was in church, youth group, or youth camps I never experienced anything close to that. I did, however, experience stuff like that on a daily basis at home, and from my boyfriend at the time. Just not at church. Church was actually a pleasant escape from my home life. I loved everyone there because they were the kindest and least judgy people I've actually ever met. So, have any of you experienced shitty churches in the sense of just being downright cruel? (For the record I did go to Baptist Christian churches)

Yup. Went to church 2x on sunday, Wed nights, Thur nights, occasional revivals, worked at church on weekends, and went to a Christian school. Fully immersed. They were a denomination who left the Southern Baptists behind when they decided the SB's weren't extreme enough.

Stupid shit?
Guys had to part hair to right or left, parting in the middle would make you gay.
Ditto for hair reaching down to collar. Had to be tapered (unless you wanted to be gay, of course).
Women wearing skirts that didn't go down past the knee? Sin
Women wearing pants? Huge huge sin. Open defiance of God's natural law.

Revolting shit?
They taught us black people were black because they were cursed by God. Descendants of Ham, cursed son of Noah or some shit, idk.
They also hammered into us over and over that interracial relationships were a sin. (we actually had a few black people attend off and on for a while, always wondered how they felt listening to this garbage. We briefly had a problem with bomb threats for a bit, wouldn't be surprised if that had something to do with it).

But the most harmful...
The sex ed. It started before I had any clue what sex even was. Before I even figured out I could play with my dick.
Lust lust lust lust lust.
You looked at a girl, and you felt something, you were worthy of damnation. If a pretty thing was showing some skin, and you did not look away and pray for strength, an angry god was watching you. There was a strict no contact rule with members of the opposite sex. No holding hands, no hugging, no touching at all. Break this rule, and you were sent to the office where they would smack your ass with a board.
They taught me that my own natural urges were evil, and if I did not fight them and suppress them, then I would spend eternity burning in hell.
Imagine how this affected me when I hit puberty. I swung back and forth between horny as hell and scared to death.

There was never any "This is a penis, this is a vagina, one goes in the other, where ideally it will ejaculate." None of that. Just "this is evil, you must stay away from it, you must not think about it."

I know not all churches are this way. But I know many are. And the ones that are like this are practicing child abuse. It is psychological torture. It pisses me off, because I was in my 30's before I realized I could look at a naked woman without having to hate myself for it afterwards.

There was also a heavy emphasis on the Apocalypse . Everything was about "the End Times". Any day it was going to start, and any tidbit that supported this view was shared. Adults would stand around damn near salivating over all the horrible shit they were talking about. We were going to be rounded up and executed, and this apparently made quite a few of them happy.

 

[Violet Dawn]

Yup. Went to church 2x on sunday, Wed nights, Thur nights, occasional revivals, worked at church on weekends, and went to a Christian school. Fully immersed. They were a denomination who left the Southern Baptists behind when they decided the SB's weren't extreme enough.

Stupid shit?
Guys had to part hair to right or left, parting in the middle would make you gay.
Ditto for hair reaching down to collar. Had to be tapered (unless you wanted to be gay, of course).
Women wearing skirts that didn't go down past the knee? Sin
Women wearing pants? Huge huge sin. Open defiance of God's natural law.

Revolting shit?
They taught us black people were black because they were cursed by God. Descendants of Ham, cursed son of Noah or some shit, idk.
They also hammered into us over and over that interracial relationships were a sin. (we actually had a few black people attend off and on for a while, always wondered how they felt listening to this garbage. We briefly had a problem with bomb threats for a bit, wouldn't be surprised if that had something to do with it).

But the most harmful...
The sex ed. It started before I had any clue what sex even was. Before I even figured out I could play with my dick.
Lust lust lust lust lust.
You looked at a girl, and you felt something, you were worthy of damnation. If a pretty thing was showing some skin, and you did not look away and pray for strength, an angry god was watching you. There was a strict no contact rule with members of the opposite sex. No holding hands, no hugging, no touching at all. Break this rule, and you were sent to the office where they would smack your ass with a board.
They taught me that my own natural urges were evil, and if I did not fight them and suppress them, then I would spend eternity burning in hell.
Imagine how this affected me when I hit puberty. I swung back and forth between horny as hell and scared to death.

There was never any "This is a penis, this is a vagina, one goes in the other, where ideally it will ejaculate." None of that. Just "this is evil, you must stay away from it, you must not think about it."

I know not all churches are this way. But I know many are. And the ones that are like this are practicing child abuse. It is psychological torture. It pisses me off, because I was in my 30's before I realized I could look at a naked woman without having to hate myself for it afterwards.

There was also a heavy emphasis on the Apocalypse . Everything was about "the End Times". Any day it was going to start, and any tidbit that supported this view was shared. Adults would stand around damn near salivating over all the horrible shit they were talking about. We were going to be rounded up and executed, and this apparently made quite a few of them happy.

Where did you go? Westboro? Holy shit. I'm kidding, but damn. Reminds me of who I lived with as a teenager.

 

[JickyJuly]

I believe in God. I think the world is too complex and amazing to be a weird accident. I'm not religious. I feel like religion can be a great thing for some people, but I prefer to think that God is too big of a deal for our little human brains to understand enough to rally around with rules and jargon. Being around religion makes me, personally, feel confused and farther from God.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Where did you go? Westboro? Holy shit. I'm kidding, but damn. Reminds me of who I lived with as a teenager.

It was 3 churches that were associated, two of them owned by the same people. Wasn't Westboro-ish (I tend to view them as a bunch of attention-whoring clowns). Just a bunch of people who really believed. In the southeastern US.

One of the preachers, never made it to the End Times he eagerly yearned for. Wound up forgetting who he was and dying of Alzheimer's in a nursing home. Another one, fancied himself a prophet, in the same boat now, lying there with dementia drooling on himself. No exciting Apocalypse for him either.

Spoiler: sexual abuse trigger

The third was adept at combating lust from the pulpit. Behind closed doors with his daughter though, lust had the upper hand. Don't know where he is; dead, I hope.

I still listen to AM broadcasts, sermons and whatnot. The harmful stuff I saw is still out there, easy to find.

I think things may have been a a little intense during my upbringing. There was a lot going on these people had trouble dealing with. Civil Rights, the hippies, the Cold War...

Wish I had a link to it, one of the 60 Minutes episodes had people I went to church with getting arrested protesting at an abortion clinic. Another episode, one of our pastors was getting dragged out of a church by law enforcement, crying and shouting "THIS IS NOT AMERICA!" (he tried to butt heads with the IRS )

idk

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I grew up in Fundamentalist Baptist church environments. The strict ones. No dancing, no theaters, women wore long skirts...the whole shebang.

One of the other things stressed was rock music was pretty much Satan screeches tearing out your soul. One church I went to the youth group attended a Peter Brothers seminar explaining all the evil ways in the rock industry including 'backmasking.' I've also attended a Jerry Fallwell sermon and stood in line to shake his hand.

Spoiler: If you have an hour to enjoy part of the horror I sat through at 13 years old click here.

Overall it wasn't bad. There were a couple things that gradually turned me off the whole church environment. At a couple churches I was around the same age as the preachers kids, so I visited their house quite a bit and got to see 'behind the scenes' into their life. How they really acted when they weren't in services. One preacher use to physically abuse his kids a lot. Throw them around, through walls. He threw a television at his son one time in a rage of violence. The son ran away from home to Alaska when he was 16. Didn't blame him a bit.

The other thing I noticed took several churches to figure out the pattern. Eventually if you go to a church long enough you may run across a group of people who start thinking differently about stuff. They don't like the way the preacher is preaching. Not emphasizing certain things. Or the opposite, pointing out things some other people are doing as against what they believe the bible says. Or maybe just cliques start forming and some people not liking others. Usually what happens is there's a clear dividing line of people who side with the pissed off ones. They break off and start worshiping at someones house, then they find an old building to rent, and eventually start up their own church to continue the cycle.

After you've been to several churches and notice the same thing happen you start wondering about how much of a great environment they are. What was also very telling was there were always a few people who were shocked at the break off. They had no idea there was strife in that perfect little church.

What I realized is the people who were oblivious to it all were the ones who went to church, then went home right after the service was over. They never attended pot lucks at the church, didn't participate in calling or other events, didn't socialize with other members, nothing outside the hour or two of services each week. The lesson being the happiest ones there were the ones where there the least.

All that just turned me off the whole church environment. I was left with the feeling behind closed doors many of them were hypocrites to what they professed in open. A couple of the preachers being the worst among the hypocrites. It was also not a very good place to find christian values among the members. In the end I decided it was not only not for me, but I don't think a 'church' itself is even needed for Christians.

@LunaTuna

 

[justjoinedtopost]

I grew up in Fundamentalist Baptist church environments. The strict ones. No dancing, no theaters, women wore long skirts...the whole shebang.

Same. No drums as well?

One of the other things stressed was rock music was pretty much Satan screeches tearing out your soul. One church I went to the youth group attended a Peter Brothers seminar explaining all the evil ways in the rock industry including 'backmasking.'

Oh this was huge with us. We had a 2 night midweek thing one time, all about the backmasking.

It was hyped so much that I was expecting to hear Beelzebub himself call me by name and order me to sacrifice a virgin on a pentagram shaped altar. Instead, I got some asshat playing a cymbal being hit 3 times in reverse, insisting it was "six six six" and not "swssh swssh swssh".

One preacher use to physically abuse his kids a lot. Throw them around, through walls. He threw a television at his son one time in a rage of violence...

One of my pastors was my father. This is how he was. Physically and verbally abusive to all of us. Probably bipolar, certainly a narcissist. But when he put on that suit, grabbed his big black King James, and strode into that sanctuary, he wore a smiling, gentle mask.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Oh this was huge with us. We had a 2 night midweek thing one time, all about the backmasking.

It was hyped so much that I was expecting to hear Beelzebub himself call me by name and order me to sacrifice a virgin on a pentagram shaped altar. Instead, I got some asshat playing a cymbal being hit 3 times in reverse, insisting it was "six six six" and not "swssh swssh swssh".

The one I remember from the Peter Brothers was Queen's Another One Bite's The Dust. They played it backwards and showed us all what the demonic message actually said. I don't remember what it was but I remember I couldn't hear what they were saying it was. But I did end up playing that song a lot the next few months.

One of my pastors was my father. This is how he was. Physically and verbally abusive to all of us. Probably bipolar, certainly a narcissist.

Dumb, but very serious, question. Is your first name Roger??? If so I may actually know you.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Dumb, but very serious, question. Is your first name Roger??? If so I may actually know you.

No.

 

[Violet Dawn]

Not sure if the fact I have never seen any church like the ones described are a coincidence, or just my ability to pick the good ones? My friend (mentioned in previous comment) did attend the same church I did, just at a different time. When they went I guess the church was in it's darker days. It was run by 4 men who I am pretty sure are all dead now. They died rather young from things like cancer and stuff. Coincidence? They wanted to completely warp the church and the congregation was too naive to understand. I feel it's people like that who end up destroying the good that church can bring.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

The one I remember from the Peter Brothers was Queen's Another One Bite's The Dust.

That apostrophe has been annoying me since I discovered it. Why oh why did I put that in there. The agony of not being able to edit is gut wrenching I tell you.

 

[iAmMegaGirl]

Before I deconverted (also American), I took all of it very seriously. But the Christianity I came from was very dark, angry, judgmental.

I justified the crazy stuff with a "might makes right" mentality. If God ordered a genocide, then it was right, because God said to do it. Hearing religious people on the fringes call for the death penalty for homosexuality appalls me, but when I read such things in the Bible, I didn't bat an eye.

I really respect you for opening up like that.

 

[iAmMegaGirl]

I believe in God. I think the world is too complex and amazing to be a weird accident. I'm not religious. I feel like religion can be a great thing for some people, but I prefer to think that God is too big of a deal for our little human brains to understand enough to rally around with rules and jargon. Being around religion makes me, personally, feel confused and farther from God.

When you say God, do you mean like a god that you pray to and think cares about you (and humans) personally? Or do you mean it as a way of just saying "nature"? Because if you're talking about the latter, then I think that's how most of us atheist feel. We just don't use the word god to describe that portion of reality that dictates things and that we don't and may never understand.

 

[MFCGod]

I believe in God. I think the world is too complex and amazing to be a weird accident.

I know I said this previously but..

Who created god? If the answer is no one, they just are, does adding the extra step of a creator really answer anything; for me it does not.

Also as we all know, as amazing as the world is it's also cruel and unfathomably heartbreaking.

I suppose you could say there's no good without bad, but some of the bad is just, too much.

 

[JickyJuly]

When you say God, do you mean like a god that you pray to and think cares about you (and humans) personally? Or do you mean it as a way of just saying "nature"? Because if you're talking about the latter, then I think that's how most of us atheist feel. We just don't use the word god to describe that portion of reality that dictates things and that we don't and may never understand.

I talk to God. I talked to God as a lonely kid before anyone ever talked to me about praying or religion. I think God cares about the world as a whole and living creatures in it. I do not think God dictates things like fate or karma instead we have free will and God's hope that we will act with kindness, compassion and responsibility. Even if I didn't believe in a God or chose to call God nature, I would not identify as atheist. The idea of atheism doesn't do anything to make me, personally, feel any better about the world.

 

[LuckySmiles]

I don't necessarily believe in prayer but do in the positive thinking and sort of calming effect of it. I did grow up praying a lot so I still will sometimes when I'm stressed out just to kind of blank my mind. Sometimes when im having a hard time with someone I care about and nervous or about to cry or to pick a giant fight or something, or any feeling of a loss of self control, I still find myself reciting Hail Marys and Our Fathers in my head to calm down! It works for me though whether or not I believe in the words, it's thoughtless reciting. I can even do the hail mary in italian. But it's the same as those hippy dippy mantras and stuff you hear about now. It's just something to concentrate on besides freaking out.

That's what I think is some of the good in religion. I appreciate it and miss certain aspects of it. I like the sense of community church provides sometimes. I think you are less likely to be shitty to someone in the street if you have to stroll pass them face to face for communion every sunday. I do think rituals like prayer and confession allow people to forgive themselves and be more focused.. the church just calls it "closer to god"

I do find it difficult sometimes as a person who grew up believing in these things, to find similar replacements. Everyone benefits from faith in things/forces outside themselves. I had a teacher one time say something like, "People could save so much money on psychiatrists if they just went to confession it's free."

And while the church/mental health histories can be fucked up I get what she means to some extent. For some people without dangerous mental problems, things like confession and god can provide one way to get on with your life, and away from the things that bring you down. Just "Give it up to God" they used to say. But it is a way many people accept the hard things in life beyond your control. People need ways to do that, and I don't think it's weak if someone chooses faith in a God to do so.

It's easy to hate on religions for some of the negative practices and because of how they can be used to manipulate and control populations for wars and politics and all that.The faith and a lot of the rituals involved also obviously help a lot of people though.

Yeah so again, I'm not really catholic and not sure I believe in god, but I still respect it and the good parts of it all.

 

[iAmMegaGirl]

I don't necessarily believe in prayer but do in the positive thinking and sort of calming effect of it. I did grow up praying a lot so I still will sometimes when I'm stressed out just to kind of blank my mind. Sometimes when im having a hard time with someone I care about and nervous or about to cry or to pick a giant fight or something, or any feeling of a loss of self control, I still find myself reciting Hail Marys and Our Fathers in my head to calm down! It works for me though whether or not I believe in the words, it's thoughtless reciting. I can even do the hail mary in italian. But it's the same as those hippy dippy mantras and stuff you hear about now. It's just something to concentrate on besides freaking out.

That's what I think is some of the good in religion. I appreciate it and miss certain aspects of it. I like the sense of community church provides sometimes. I think you are less likely to be shitty to someone in the street if you have to stroll pass them face to face for communion every sunday. I do think rituals like prayer and confession allow people to forgive themselves and be more focused.. the church just calls it "closer to god"

I do find it difficult sometimes as a person who grew up believing in these things, to find similar replacements. Everyone benefits from faith in things/forces outside themselves. I had a teacher one time say something like, "People could save so much money on psychiatrists if they just went to confession it's free."

And while the church/mental health histories can be fucked up I get what she means to some extent. For some people without dangerous mental problems, things like confession and god can provide one way to get on with your life, and away from the things that bring you down. Just "Give it up to God" they used to say. But it is a way many people accept the hard things in life beyond your control. People need ways to do that, and I don't think it's weak if someone chooses faith in a God to do so.

It's easy to hate on religions for some of the negative practices and because of how they can be used to manipulate and control populations for wars and politics and all that.The faith and a lot of the rituals involved also obviously help a lot of people though.

Yeah so again, I'm not really catholic and not sure I believe in god, but I still respect it and the good parts of it all.

This is awesome. I like the way you think. And yeah. I try to see the positive in everything. I just wish religion (the Abrahamic one's specifically) didn't hide so much negativity inside of all of those positive things you listed. Loving the positive affects of Christianity while ignoring all the hurt it causes is sort of like buying one of Hitler's paintings. Who cares that he was an amazing artist when he was also out killing people for such stupid reasons. I just wish someone could find a way to separate all of the lies and nonsense, and then keep all the really awesome things about religion. The community aspect is the big one. Between working up to 14 hour days sometimes, I really don't have time for any type of a social life. It would be so awesome if there were a huge mansion where like minded people got together and reminded each other that everything would be ok and that we're all awesome in our own ways.

 

[LadyLuna]

Out of curiosity, what evidence are you basing all of this on? And how can Christian God be the servant of love if he's killed babies on multiple occasions (as a plague, and during the flood) according to the Bible?

I have no evidence beyond what I've felt. I don't feel like evidence is necessary for this, since it's about spiritual life, not physical. How do you prove something that is completely spiritual? Why do you need evidence to be okay with a belief that everyone should pick what virtues they want to live by and do their best to follow those without harming anyone?

As to the Christian God, I favor believing that many of the things in the bible were natural occurrences credited to/blamed on God. I don't believe that natural disasters are acts of God. I do believe that occasionally God grants miracles. Also, not a He, not a She, but It implies not a being... this is where I wish the gender-neutral pronouns had less baggage... Further, I'm not entirely convinced that the Jewish God of the Old Testament is the same God Jewish people and Christians worship today. If they are two different Gods, then I'd say the Muslim people are split into those following the old God and those following the new God. If that was a different God, then maybe the old God really did all that. In which case, that would be a god of Possession and Truth. Possessiveness can be mistaken for love quite easily, and would account for everything done by the old God as well as the gradual shift in which God was being worshiped.

For the record, I do not believe the Adam and Eve story to be anything more than an attempt to make sense of a confusing world for people who did not know nearly as much about science as we do today.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

I have no evidence beyond what I've felt. I don't feel like evidence is necessary for this, since it's about spiritual life, not physical. How do you prove something that is completely spiritual?

I agree with much of your post. But I would like to share my thoughts on this bit I quoted.

In my 30+ years as a believer, feelings were everything. They convinced me to feel guilt, then repent so I would feel relief. I would feel the presence of God, either his love or his displeasure. Seemed it was always about feelings. Emotions.

I remember hearing a hymn played in church, and it gave me chill bumps on my arms. I knew this was the presence of the Holy Spirit I was feeling. Years later, at a funeral (as an atheist), I heard a hymn played and had the exact same reaction. This time I viewed it differently. Something about the music I was hearing triggered a reaction in my brain. Period. No Holy Spirit, just music having a physical effect on me.

The other thing is the spiritual. I have seen this word get used a lot in the sense of "off limits to psychology, or scientific inquiry". I disagree with this (not saying this is what you intended, just sharing my view).

My personal spiritual experiences needed psychiatry to get a handle on. My God was a delusion, his messages to me were hallucinations. I know a lot of people can believe, pray, and live relatively ordinary lives. I do not knock them for that. But their feelings are no substitute for evidence, and spirituality is not exempt from science.

One more thought. Make what you will of it.

Driving down the road one night, a deer jumped out and hit our car. Shattered the side windows, and we ran off the road. Took a few minutes to pick glass out of my head and face, wiped the blood away, and then the driver led us in an emotional, frightened prayer for the remainder of our journey to be safe. She was crying, so was her son. I thought it was stupid.

We got back in the car, headed back up the road. And as an atheist, the whole way I was engaged in a silent prayer to a God I am convinced is completely imaginary: "Dear Lord, please don't let another deer jump out in front of us..."

We got home safely, I felt a little stupid for praying. Probly would do it again tho

 

[EmelieSky]

I agree with much of your post. But I would like to share my thoughts on this bit I quoted.

In my 30+ years as a believer, feelings were everything. They convinced me to feel guilt, then repent so I would feel relief. I would feel the presence of God, either his love or his displeasure. Seemed it was always about feelings. Emotions.

I remember hearing a hymn played in church, and it gave me chill bumps on my arms. I knew this was the presence of the Holy Spirit I was feeling. Years later, at a funeral (as an atheist), I heard a hymn played and had the exact same reaction. This time I viewed it differently. Something about the music I was hearing triggered a reaction in my brain. Period. No Holy Spirit, just music having a physical effect on me.

The other thing is the spiritual. I have seen this word get used a lot in the sense of "off limits to psychology, or scientific inquiry". I disagree with this (not saying this is what you intended, just sharing my view).

My personal spiritual experiences needed psychiatry to get a handle on. My God was a delusion, his messages to me were hallucinations. I know a lot of people can believe, pray, and live relatively ordinary lives. I do not knock them for that. But their feelings are no substitute for evidence, and spirituality is not exempt from science.

One more thought. Make what you will of it.

Driving down the road one night, a deer jumped out and hit our car. Shattered the side windows, and we ran off the road. Took a few minutes to pick glass out of my head and face, wiped the blood away, and then the driver led us in an emotional, frightened prayer for the remainder of our journey to be safe. She was crying, so was her son. I thought it was stupid.

We got back in the car, headed back up the road. And as an atheist, the whole way I was engaged in a silent prayer to a God I am convinced is completely imaginary: "Dear Lord, please don't let another deer jump out in front of us..."

We got home safely, I felt a little stupid for praying. Probly would do it again tho

Actually, listening to music with the same BPM as your current heartbeat can be purely euphoric. I've never taken drugs at a rave party, but I have experienced this multiple times and if I was a believer I think I could have given God the credit for it. I have never experienced it as strong with other types of music, even though I've felt really strong for certain songs.

 

[LadyLuna]

Any time I feel encased in darkness, I look deep inside me and find the light of love. I can draw strength from this light. I have no control over this light, only control over my access to it. I have no idea where it comes from. That is my evidence for believing that there is a god of love. I cannot imagine a world filled with so much hate if there is only a god of love. Therefore, there must also be a god of hate. But how could such a rich world be created with nothing but hate and love? You need more than 2 colors to make a rainbow. There must be more than those two. I tap into the part of me which can feel the truth of things. I ask if there's a supreme being for (insert thing here), and get a sense of if there is, and how powerful it is. I can almost see them, they are like pools of light, different colors for different aspects. They send streams of energy, and those streams mix with the streams from other such beings. Out of the mixed streams come more. Any place the connections happen, beings are made from each aspect involved in teh connection. Some connections have opposites. If there's not enough other things besides the opposites, then the opposites cancel each other out.

These beings don't care if you believe in them. They don't care what name you use to refer to them. Your belief or lack of belief will not affect them. It also won't affect what happens when you die. Only your choices affect what happens when you die. I don't care if you believe in them. I don't care what name you use to refer to them. As long as you aren't hurting anyone, you do what feels right to you.

Whenever I am out of something with no way to get more right away, I find just enough for one more use. As a teenager, my mother was going through menopause, and things were really rocky. Thus, I'd sometimes have to wait to ask for more, until i was sure that asking wouldn't get me snapped at. There was one time when I drew the "last" kleenex from the box four times, feeling the cardboard at the bottom each and every time, but leaving the box as a reminder to myself to get more. Three times, the next time I needed kleenex, there'd be another. I once had only a tiny bit of shampoo left in the cap. Somehow I got enough for five days out of that cap. I have lots of hair, and it was not a very big cap. These are things I cannot explain with science. Experiencing these things has prepared me to believe that there are things which science cannot explain. I can understand you not being prepared to accept that. I don't even want to change your mind on that. I'm not trying to convert anyone. I'm just trying to explain my beliefs.

 

[n_i_c_u]

One of the other things stressed was rock music was pretty much Satan screeches tearing out your soul.

When I was in grade school we had a substitute teacher that noticed my folder with "KISS" written on it in BIG letters (they were like superheros at that time). OMG, the tirade she went on about the evils of rock music changed my world. I never knew that Kiss = Knights in Satan's Service, or that "Lucy In the Sky with Diamonds" by the Beatles was secret code for "LSD." It was a whole hour of her spouting off these crazy ideas to innocent kids about drugs and sex, with her crying at the end. Thinking about it now, It was an amazing show, but at the time, the horrors of sex and drugs she spouted about changed my world. I actually gave up rock and roll.

I didn't abandon music totally--I started listening to weird al yankovic (no way he is a bad guy) and I think that helped me realize that I hadn't been ruined or would get into drugs (I do like LSD though) and sex (well, I do like sex). About 6 months of no evil music.

She tried. And I hope she is doing well. Hopefully she is saved and going to heaven. But I do have to say my life would have been better without her.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Thinking about it now, It was an amazing show, but at the time, the horrors of sex and drugs she spouted about changed my world. I actually gave up rock and roll.

At that time for me I just bought headphones so no one would be able to hear what I was listening to.