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Game of Thrones
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Ramsay needs to die in a very painful way when it's his time to go, what a fucked up ending.
Watching Game of Thrones is a bit like being in an abusive relationship, you keep getting fucked but you love them so you keep coming back, then they just fuck you again.
Just watched the latest episode so here is spoilers if you haven't..
Sansa...
This season has had far too much cunts getting away with being cunts and not enough justice.
Just watched the latest episode so here is spoilers if you haven't..
Sansa...
I was hoping Sansa was going to tell him to fuck off in the gods wood and say no she wouldn't marry him
I was then hoping as she played with her sleeve she was going to produce a knife and stab him in the neck while he looked at Theon
I was then hoping Theon would kill Ramsay before he started to rape Sansa
Even if Theon does kill Ramsay now it's too late
I was then hoping as she played with her sleeve she was going to produce a knife and stab him in the neck while he looked at Theon
I was then hoping Theon would kill Ramsay before he started to rape Sansa
Even if Theon does kill Ramsay now it's too late
This season has had far too much cunts getting away with being cunts and not enough justice.
I have to say also, I don't really get what the
added to the story
Everyone already hates him more than anything, everyone gets he is vile, no one is in doubt; he is at the peak of being a cunt already
Was it to show Sansa what he really is? because I can think of a lot less distressing ways for me as a viewer to make that happen.
Could of just had her in a doorway overhear him talking to his GF about how he tortures and kills people and what he will do to her.. have her turn to the camera, back to the wall, shocked and appalled, cool she knows what he is now no doubt, done.
Just seems like they added a
purely for the shock factor.
rape
Everyone already hates him more than anything, everyone gets he is vile, no one is in doubt; he is at the peak of being a cunt already
Was it to show Sansa what he really is? because I can think of a lot less distressing ways for me as a viewer to make that happen.
Could of just had her in a doorway overhear him talking to his GF about how he tortures and kills people and what he will do to her.. have her turn to the camera, back to the wall, shocked and appalled, cool she knows what he is now no doubt, done.
Just seems like they added a
distressing rape
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I really disliked the ending of episode 6. Sigh... why....
*spoilers and rape talk under the cut*
Rape is not a convenient plot device you can use whenever your show gets too dull. Rape is not a convenient plot device you can use whenever you need to give a character a dose of inspiring manpain that helps them find the road to redemption. Since this is the third time they've added a rape scene not originally in the books, I've got to conclude that there's either some lazy fucking writing going on, or someone on the writing team is a little too interested in the subject.
That scene wasn't helpful in communicating how monstrous Ramsay is. Everyone south of the wall already knows, as do viewers.
That scene wasn't helpful in communicating Sansa's character growth. We've watched her watch her father get beheaded, get continually abused both physically and emotionally by everyone and their brother, get forced into marrying both her tormentor and her tormentor's uncle, and so much more. We know she's been through shit. She's long past due for some sort of turnaround in which she grows stronger and starts "playing the game." We were getting increasingly bigger hints of that plotline coming to fruition, up until this episode. Now, I'm pretty sure GoT is going to continue to be the "shit on Sansa" fest it has always been.
That scene did nothing except focus on poor Theon. Yeah, don't even give any attention to the actual fucking rape victim. I understand that Theon was a victim in that room as well as Sansa... but making it entirely about him was in poor taste. I'm sure now that he's been subjected to that horror, he'll be all ready for his redemption arc to come into full swing *disgusted eyeroll into the next century*
That scene wasn't helpful in communicating how monstrous Ramsay is. Everyone south of the wall already knows, as do viewers.
That scene wasn't helpful in communicating Sansa's character growth. We've watched her watch her father get beheaded, get continually abused both physically and emotionally by everyone and their brother, get forced into marrying both her tormentor and her tormentor's uncle, and so much more. We know she's been through shit. She's long past due for some sort of turnaround in which she grows stronger and starts "playing the game." We were getting increasingly bigger hints of that plotline coming to fruition, up until this episode. Now, I'm pretty sure GoT is going to continue to be the "shit on Sansa" fest it has always been.
That scene did nothing except focus on poor Theon. Yeah, don't even give any attention to the actual fucking rape victim. I understand that Theon was a victim in that room as well as Sansa... but making it entirely about him was in poor taste. I'm sure now that he's been subjected to that horror, he'll be all ready for his redemption arc to come into full swing *disgusted eyeroll into the next century*
Lilith_Winter said:
What I was thinking is
They are trying to show Theon breaking back into having some will of his own and sympathy for Sansa
But if he doesn't eventually step in and kill Ramsay that is obviously not the case
It's too late anyway now though since the deed is done.
But if he doesn't eventually step in and kill Ramsay that is obviously not the case
It's too late anyway now though since the deed is done.
I think I probably viewed this week's episode different to most. Bullet points!
- While I can certainly see why many people, women especially, would take the viewpoint of "rape as a thematic device is never okay", it's not a viewpoint I completely agree with. Rape is horrendous, obviously, but it's something that's sadly been present throughout time. Just like murder, or slavery, or genocide, or any number of truly ugly facets of humanity. Game of Thrones takes place in a harsh, ugly, violent, dangerous world where all of these things are commonplace, and it's never been a show that shies away from that fact.
- If the rape was gratuitous, or didn't serve the story, I think I'd have been a lot more offended by it. It made for a genuinely uncomfortable watch, but it was never intended to be a slice of light entertainment. It was shot in a way that (thankfully) spared the viewer the discomfort of actually having to see what was happening, and didn't exist in a vacuum. It sets up numerous storylines and has huge ramifications for at least four characters, that will spin out over the remaining episodes of the season.
- While I can certainly see why many people, women especially, would take the viewpoint of "rape as a thematic device is never okay", it's not a viewpoint I completely agree with. Rape is horrendous, obviously, but it's something that's sadly been present throughout time. Just like murder, or slavery, or genocide, or any number of truly ugly facets of humanity. Game of Thrones takes place in a harsh, ugly, violent, dangerous world where all of these things are commonplace, and it's never been a show that shies away from that fact.
- If the rape was gratuitous, or didn't serve the story, I think I'd have been a lot more offended by it. It made for a genuinely uncomfortable watch, but it was never intended to be a slice of light entertainment. It was shot in a way that (thankfully) spared the viewer the discomfort of actually having to see what was happening, and didn't exist in a vacuum. It sets up numerous storylines and has huge ramifications for at least four characters, that will spin out over the remaining episodes of the season.
mynameisbob84 said:
For me it didn't
It didn't make me dislike the character any more, I hate them already, it made me dislike the show.
To borrow a phrase from wrestling there's good heat and bad heat, this is bad heat.
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^ THISLilith_Winter said:
I cried when the episode ended.
I cried, thinking about the hundreds of thousands of women and children who have been bought/sold and raped for thousands of years. And it's still happening today.
Rape isn't ~edgy~ and shocking. No one is watching GoT for the added rape scenes!! I'm so over the tv show writers. Like, what are they even thinking!? "Oh, you think she's strong & a role model, but guess what? She can still get RAPED! lololol women r still weak and inferior, don't you forget it!!1!"
Rape isn't ~edgy~ and shocking. No one is watching GoT for the added rape scenes!! I'm so over the tv show writers. Like, what are they even thinking!? "Oh, you think she's strong & a role model, but guess what? She can still get RAPED! lololol women r still weak and inferior, don't you forget it!!1!"
I think the best thing the show could do at this point is fire the writers, or at the very least bring in a couple new ones to offset the current ones.
Up until this point the show has had the books to rely on for major plots and most of the minor plots used. But this season marks a change. Almost all the major plots from the books have now been used. Yes they still have a general idea from Martin where the story is going, but that's not the same as creating enough original plot points to fill hour long episodes.
There's two main writers of the show, David Benioff and D.B. Weiss. Both of whom do not actually have that much experience creating plot. Benioff has done a couple bigger name screenplays: X-Men and Troy. He's also done a few other minor projects, but Game of Thrones is really the only long term project he's worked on. And Weiss has only written one episode of another show besides Game of Thrones. Virtually no experience in writing outside of this show.
There's been a few other writers that have done a few episodes, but those two are the main ones.
Up until now it's safe to say they have been relying on the books for the plot of all the episodes. But that diverges from here on out. I've been waiting to see how this season goes and so far I think it's becoming apparent they need to bring in writers with more plot development backgrounds. Without Martin's writing genius to copy from I think it's just going to go further downhill if they don't.
Up until this point the show has had the books to rely on for major plots and most of the minor plots used. But this season marks a change. Almost all the major plots from the books have now been used. Yes they still have a general idea from Martin where the story is going, but that's not the same as creating enough original plot points to fill hour long episodes.
There's two main writers of the show, David Benioff and D.B. Weiss. Both of whom do not actually have that much experience creating plot. Benioff has done a couple bigger name screenplays: X-Men and Troy. He's also done a few other minor projects, but Game of Thrones is really the only long term project he's worked on. And Weiss has only written one episode of another show besides Game of Thrones. Virtually no experience in writing outside of this show.
There's been a few other writers that have done a few episodes, but those two are the main ones.
Up until now it's safe to say they have been relying on the books for the plot of all the episodes. But that diverges from here on out. I've been waiting to see how this season goes and so far I think it's becoming apparent they need to bring in writers with more plot development backgrounds. Without Martin's writing genius to copy from I think it's just going to go further downhill if they don't.
I'm really sad that the sand snakes are like comic book baddies 
:crybaby:
:crybaby:
Still salty about Theon not doing anything. He did some awful shit but was strangely hoping for him to find some kind of redemption. Not so much now. Still love his speech, dude really hated that fucking hornblower.
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If you're struggling with the ending of the last episode, please give this article a read. It makes what I feel are some really solid points.
TLDR:
The TV series has taken some huge departures from the books, so now I am slowly losing my grip on what to expect and it's driving me insane.
TLDR:
The rape scene was not gratuitous; it would be unrealistic for Ramsay to have acted any other way; Sansa is working within a broken system to take back power; the fact that Theon didn't save the day at the last minute subverts the tropes we've been conditioned to expect in fantasy, such as the princess being saved at the last minute. More good points in the article, seriously, read it.
The TV series has taken some huge departures from the books, so now I am slowly losing my grip on what to expect and it's driving me insane.
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I agree with mynameisbob84 and with the article that LilyEvans linked. Discussion of rape
Discussion of sexual assault follows.
Discussion of sexual assault follows.
Yes, we all knew Ramsay was horrible before the rape. And no, Sansa doesn't need to be raped to hate Ramsay enough to kill him (or whatever she's going to do). But it pretty much has to happen in the context of the story, given the characters involved and their history. (a) Ramsay isn't going to NOT have sex with her on their wedding night, and (b) there's no way Sansa is having happy consensual sex with anyone named Bolton. Therefore he is going to rape her.
So the real question is, did we need to see it happen? Well, in the context of the story it makes sense to show it so that we know (a) how Sansa handled it, and that it actually was as horrible as we'd expect, but also (b) how it affects Theon. Outside the context of this story, I feel that this scene could be very effective in helping men gain some understanding of how awful rape is. Connecting the concept of rape with the idea of a character as horrible as Ramsay in the minds of millions of men is a good thing. No (sane) man wants to be RamsaySnow Bolton. Theon's presence serves to reinforce our memories of awful Ramsay is. ("Hey, this guy who cut my dick off is now raping this girl who was like a sister to me! He's the worst guy on this whole continent!")
Theon's presence also allows us to experience the rape secondhand. Rather than showing us more of the actual rape (which would have been a very bad idea) we can instead see it happen through the expression on Theon's face. While we did get a bit of Sansa's reaction as the assault began (as well as the lead-up to it) they at least spared us having to see her during most of it. Just hearing her is awful enough. And they didn't show Ramsay at all. A very good choice; it's the victim whose reactions and feelings matter. Showing the triumphant Ramsay raping his wife would have been very inappropriate.
While this scene was obviously very important for Theon, I'm very glad they didn't (yet, at least) have him kill Ramsay. I don't want to see him deprive Sansa of the opportunity to act on her own. Yes, I'd like to see Theon break out of his Reek persona (and I think that has clearly happened by the end of this episode) but he has a million other things he can do. Ramsay should be Sansa's to deal with.
So the real question is, did we need to see it happen? Well, in the context of the story it makes sense to show it so that we know (a) how Sansa handled it, and that it actually was as horrible as we'd expect, but also (b) how it affects Theon. Outside the context of this story, I feel that this scene could be very effective in helping men gain some understanding of how awful rape is. Connecting the concept of rape with the idea of a character as horrible as Ramsay in the minds of millions of men is a good thing. No (sane) man wants to be Ramsay
Theon's presence also allows us to experience the rape secondhand. Rather than showing us more of the actual rape (which would have been a very bad idea) we can instead see it happen through the expression on Theon's face. While we did get a bit of Sansa's reaction as the assault began (as well as the lead-up to it) they at least spared us having to see her during most of it. Just hearing her is awful enough. And they didn't show Ramsay at all. A very good choice; it's the victim whose reactions and feelings matter. Showing the triumphant Ramsay raping his wife would have been very inappropriate.
While this scene was obviously very important for Theon, I'm very glad they didn't (yet, at least) have him kill Ramsay. I don't want to see him deprive Sansa of the opportunity to act on her own. Yes, I'd like to see Theon break out of his Reek persona (and I think that has clearly happened by the end of this episode) but he has a million other things he can do. Ramsay should be Sansa's to deal with.
In the last two posts you've both said the same
But the problem with that is
it would be unrealistic for Ramsay to have acted any other way
But the problem with that is
She didn't need to marry Ramsay, there didn't need to be a wedding night, she doesn't marry Ramsay in the books.
So for me saying step 2 is ok because of step 1 isn't correct because step 1 never needed to happen in the first place
So for me saying step 2 is ok because of step 1 isn't correct because step 1 never needed to happen in the first place
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MFCGod said:
In the books Ramsay marries and rapes Jayne Poole in place of Sansa. It seems Sansa will be taking Jeyne's plot line in the show, probably because Jeyne is a relatively minor character and we have run out of Sansa plot that comes directly from the books.
Since Jeyne does get raped by Ramsay in the books, if they had left her in the show should they remove that scene? Why or why not? Would it be any more or less tragic to see a girl we are less familiar with get raped?
Since Jeyne does get raped by Ramsay in the books, if they had left her in the show should they remove that scene? Why or why not? Would it be any more or less tragic to see a girl we are less familiar with get raped?
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For the record, I do not like what happened. It made me ill to watch, and I definitely cried. Sansa is probably my favorite character and I wish she could catch a fuckin' break.
That being said, I don't think the scene was unnecessary, or glorified, or poorly handled, or should have been omitted. I think it will have very important ramifications later on.
That being said, I don't think the scene was unnecessary, or glorified, or poorly handled, or should have been omitted. I think it will have very important ramifications later on.
LilyEvans said:
Sansa isn't my favorite character but other that I agree with everything else. Also I don't understand why Theon's prolonged tortured, rape and castration went pretty much uncommitted while Sansa rape elicited calls for the writers to be fired.
LilyEvans said:
THIS ^^^
I think it says a lot about us as a society that we find the rape of someone who we aren't as invested in ok as a plot line but the rape of a likeable character unacceptable. Rape is horrific and violent and upsetting regardless of the victim. I've read the scene in the book and watched the episode and understandably I was more upset by watching the show - partially because of the visual effect but hugely because a character I liked was going through something awful. But I don't find the rape of Sansa any more problematic as a storyline than the rape of Jeyne. If I didn't boycott the books or the author over that rape I wouldn't hypocritically boycott the show or demand the writers be sacked over a similar story line. It was upsetting and hard to watch just as it was upsetting and hard to read but I personally think it made sense it the context of the story for similar reasons that Lily mentioned.
MFCGod said:
John Snow. Clearly. I acknowledged in my comment above that it is understandable why people (myself included) would be more emotive over what happened to Sansa than if it happened to a more minor character that we are not invested in. But I wouldn't start calling for the writers to be sacked or the show to be boycotted if John was killed if I wasn't going to do the same if it happened to Ramsey. If rape is an unacceptable story telling tool then it is unacceptable regardless of who it happens to. There was no uproar over the storyline in the book so it's a little hypocritical for people to get worked up over essentially the same storyline told but just including a more loved character :twocents-02cents:
Finally a bit of justice
This weeks episode..
This weeks episode..
Cersei has made for a terrible Tywin replacement
It was obvious this faith militant was going to blow up in her face but I'm surprised its happened this soon
I don't know what they will do now, everyone of strength has gone
I suppose Little finger and Lady Olenna will have to guide Tomon on how to help his mum, wife and brother in law.
It was obvious this faith militant was going to blow up in her face but I'm surprised its happened this soon
I don't know what they will do now, everyone of strength has gone
I suppose Little finger and Lady Olenna will have to guide Tomon on how to help his mum, wife and brother in law.
I'm waiting for one of the pious guys to decide to show them enlightenment from the Seven and simply do a prison rape scene. It's the way the writing on the show has been headed.
I've almost finished reading the fourth book, A Feast For Crows
I have to say everything makes a lot more sense in the book
Including Little Fingers plans for Sansa
Little Fingers plans for Sansa in the show seem extremely ill thought out and reckless, marrying her to a madmen who is just as likely to kill her or force her into suicide.
I have a question about that, when Petyr is talking to Ramsay in the show he says he doesn't know much about him, do you think that was true? it seems to be..
Petyr in the book seems a lot smarter and more calculated.
I have to say everything makes a lot more sense in the book
Including Little Fingers plans for Sansa
Little Fingers plans for Sansa in the show seem extremely ill thought out and reckless, marrying her to a madmen who is just as likely to kill her or force her into suicide.
I have a question about that, when Petyr is talking to Ramsay in the show he says he doesn't know much about him, do you think that was true? it seems to be..
Petyr in the book seems a lot smarter and more calculated.
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