Ferguson shooting grand jury verdict

[MrRodry]

Weird. Looks like the "Shoot Until He Stop Moving" book has a chapter on "Choke Until He Stop Moving" but there is no mention of a "Handle Your Shit" chapter.

Officer who fatally shot Tamir Rice judged unfit for duty by police in 2012

Timothy Loehmann criticised by small Ohio force for breaking down while handling live gun and his performance was called ‘dismal’, records show

A police officer who shot a 12-year-old dead in a Cleveland park late last month had been judged unfit for police service two years earlier by a small suburban force where he worked for six months, according to records released on Wednesday.

Officer Timothy Loehmann, who killed Tamir Rice on 22 November, was specifically faulted for breaking down emotionally while handling a live gun. During a training episode at a firing range, Loehmann was reported to be “distracted and weepy” and incommunicative. “His handgun performance was dismal,” deputy chief Jim Polak of the Independence, Ohio, police department wrote in an internal memo.

The memo concludes with a recommendation that Loehmann be “released from the employment of the City of Independence”. Less than a week later, on 3 December 2012, Loehmann resigned.

In March of this year, Loehmann was hired by the Cleveland police department. It is unclear whether the department had seen the Independence memo at the time of Loehmann’s hiring.

“I have not received any instruction about it, and I have not received the file” from Independence, said Sgt Ali Pillow, a Cleveland police spokesman. He said the Cleveland department had not commented on whether it had seen the memo from Independence before Loehmann was hired.

On a Saturday afternoon last month, Loehmann and a partner, Frank Garmack, were dispatched to Cleveland’s Cudell Commons Park after a 911 caller reported “a guy” in the park was pointing a “probably fake” gun at people. Surveillance video recovered after the incident showed Tamir Rice, the 12-year-old, handling a pistol-sized pellet gun.

Loehmann shot the boy dead within two seconds of a police car driven by Garmack arriving to the park and pulling to a stop within feet of the child. In the video, released by Cleveland police a week ago, Loehmann appears to fire his gun as he opens the door to leave the police car.

Loehmann has been taken off patrol duties in Cleveland and the shooting is under internal review.

The Independence police memo describes an episode in which a supervising officer suspended gun training with Loehmann after Loehmann had an emotional breakdown about a girlfriend.

“During a state range qualification course, Ptl Loehmann was distracted and weepy,” Polak wrote, naming the trainer as Sgt Tinnirello. “[Loehmann] could not follow simple directions, could not communicate clear thoughts nor recollections, and his handgun performance was dismal. Sgt Tinnirello tried to work through this with Ptl Loehmann by giving him some time. But, after some talking it was clear to Sgt Tinnirello that the recruit was just not mentally prepared to be doing firearm training ...

“Ptl Loehmann continued with his emotional meltdown to a point where Sgt Tinnirello could not take him into the store, so they went to get something to eat and he continued to try and calm Ptl Loehmann. Sgt Tinnirello describes the recruit as being very downtrodden, melancholy with some light crying. Sgt Tinnirello later found this emotional perplexity was due to a personal issue with Ptl Loehmann’s on and off again girlfriend whom he was dealing with till 0400 hrs the night before. (Pti Loehmann was scheduled for 0800 the morning in question).”

Some of the comments made by Ptl Loehmann during this discourse were to the effect of, “I should have gone to NY”, “maybe I should quit”, “I have no friends”, “I only hang out with 73-year-old priests”, “I have cried every day for four months about this girl.”

In recommending Loehmann’s dismissal, Polak listed what he said were other performance shortcomings, including Loehmann’s having left his gun unlocked, lied to supervisors and failed to follow orders.

“Due to this dangerous loss of composure during live range training and his inability to manage this personal stress, I do not believe Ptl Loehmann shows the maturity needed to work in our employment,” Polak concludes. “For these reasons, I am recommending he be released from the employment of the city of Independence. I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct these deficiencies.”

Source http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014 ... dged-unfit

And now a police officer has avoided an indictment after choking an unarmed black man to death despite being warned numerous times that the man couldn't breathe. There's apparently video of it online but I didn't have the stomach to watch. Oh, the guy who shot the video, he's being indicted. The cop who choked the unarmed black man to death isn't. And yet there are people (mostly white people) who'll tell you that America doesn't have a race problem.

Judges can't say dead people had "affluenza".

 

[Teagan]

And now a police officer has avoided an indictment after choking an unarmed black man to death despite being warned numerous times that the man couldn't breathe. There's apparently video of it online but I didn't have the stomach to watch. Oh, the guy who shot the video, he's being indicted. The cop who choked the unarmed black man to death isn't. And yet there are people (mostly white people) who'll tell you that America doesn't have a race problem.

I watched the video months ago and ill tell you or anyone else now if you havent seen it do not watch it. Its just sad. Very sad. And it still haunts me to think of it and have the images pop into my head. Spare yourself.

The cop was wrong as hell to do what he did in this case. I understand the cop did not know of any preexisting conditions the man had, asthma, but as a cop shouldnt you just assume something is wrong with people? Like dont use a taser unless needed and such. Well dont choke hold someone either as you can seriously hurt and kill them. I thought that was common sense you only do it if you have to as a cop and only to a certain point even then. For one their own manual bans it. For two they arent trained in the slightest of how to properly do it.

What the cop did know was this guy was super over weight and therefore that should have been taken into account as breathing is impaired at that point. Again common sense and a mistake on the cops part. You cant then go and inhibit breathing when you know someones breathing is inhibited to start with then pretend like you didnt know what you were doing.

All 4 of those officers should be charged with crimes and sent to trial no doubt. They could have just got him down and cuffed and got him back on his feet no issue.

Edit: I agree though if people are gonna comment and form opinions on things you should educate yourself on the matter past reading "black man and white cop..." and jumping to conclusions from there and screaming racism !!! Just my :twocents-02cents: I also dont think the Rice case had anything to do with racism but instead a jumpy bad cop who should have never been there in that job to begin with.

 

[Bocefish]

What's really fucked up about the whole Eric Garner situation is not only that he lost his life due to police brutality, but he was being arrested for selling single cigarettes called loosies which are supposedly illegal because they might be more appealing to children, which is a load of crap. It's illegal because loosies sold on the street are not taxed yet that Sharpton asshat owes millions in taxes, visits the White House regularly and can text the President on a daily basis.

 

[Sevrin]

I've mostly chosen not to give the events in Ferguson a lot of thought, because they're just one more very sad and troubling example in a long history of very sad events related to racially based mistrust and inequality which may never be resolved.

I did come across an interesting article about St.Louis county, which sheds some light on the institutionalization of inequality, and specifically how the nature of policing in places like Ferguson has its roots in how local jurisdictions are organized in that part of the country.

Riot-torn Ferguson's distrust of police flows from a city run on fines

 

[eyeteach]

What's really fucked up about the whole Eric Garner situation is not only that he lost his life due to police brutality, but he was being arrested for selling single cigarettes called loosies which are supposedly illegal because they might be more appealing to children, which is a load of crap. It's illegal because loosies sold on the street are not taxed yet that Sharpton asshat owes millions in taxes, visits the White House regularly and can text the President on a daily basis.

Bocefish that was my thought as well. Absolutely horrible that he lost his life selling smokes from an $11.00 pack of cigarettes for a dollar a piece. I know that Garner had something like 30 counts on his rap sheet but selling individual cigs shouldn't have gotten him accosted like that...and all because the state couldn't collect a tax. Un-freaking-believable.

 

[Bocefish]

After a little more digging... apparently the GJ didn't indict because they deemed what the officer did was not a crime. Although the officer that performed the choke hold disobeyed department procedures and most likely caused Garners death, it was not illegal. The officer has been suspended indefinitely while under investigation and the department will probably end up paying tens of millions from a $75 million dollar civil suit, but what he did was not illegal.

 

[ACFFAN69]

I'm just going to throw this out there:

Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops

http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barr ... y?id=95836

A man whose bid to become a police officer was rejected after he scored too high on an intelligence test has lost an appeal in his federal lawsuit against the city.

The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York upheld a lower court’s decision that the city did not discriminate against Robert Jordan because the same standards were applied to everyone who took the test.

“This kind of puts an official face on discrimination in America against people of a certain class,” Jordan said today from his Waterford home. “I maintain you have no more control over your basic intelligence than your eye color or your gender or anything else.”

He said he does not plan to take any further legal action.

Jordan, a 49-year-old college graduate, took the exam in 1996 and scored 33 points, the equivalent of an IQ of 125. But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27, on the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training.

Most Cops Just Above Normal The average score nationally for police officers is 21 to 22, the equivalent of an IQ of 104, or just a little above average.

Jordan alleged his rejection from the police force was discrimination. He sued the city, saying his civil rights were violated because he was denied equal protection under the law.

But the U.S. District Court found that New London had “shown a rational basis for the policy.” In a ruling dated Aug. 23, the 2nd Circuit agreed. The court said the policy might be unwise but was a rational way to reduce job turnover.

 

[Bocefish]

Eric Garner’s Daughter Erica Garner - " This Is Not a Black and White Issue "

 

[camstory]

I don't know exactly where this thread is at the moment, because I am writing this off-line. I can only imagine considering recent events, that it still is very much about race. I want to share my opinion on police brutality in general. Having had much more than my share of police contact I'm going to tell you that the primary problem is not one of race discrimination. No doubt there are percentage wise as many racist police officers as there are racist people in our society. (I'm sure on some forces the percentage is higher and on some perhaps lower)

When the news broke of the Rodney King beating I was surprised that the story was so dominantly about race discrimination of the police who did the beating, and very little was mentioned about police brutality in general. Since then every major story of police brutality making national headlines has focused on this issue of race. I will be the first to agree that race relationships in the United States are still a major problem that we need to work out. But I'm going to tell you, rather than suggest this time, the primary problem with police brutality, is police brutality, not racism.

I believe if one was to search well enough, stories of white on white police brutality just as horrific as the recent white on black stories, could be found. I have lived in neighborhoods that could only be described as miniature ghettos. In one such neighborhood I doubt if more than half the adult population had full-time employment. There was not a street or apartment complex where there wasn't at least one well-known dope dealer. The criminal activity that took place in the city attached to this neighborhood often was connected to people that live in the neighborhood. In general there was a very high percentage of hoods in that hood.

In that neighborhood, that little ghetto, where many of the people were criminals, or had no respect for the police, and where everybody was poor, the police had no respect for anyone.

I am writing this because I think it is really a shame that the idea of police brutality in general is being buried under this issue of race. I am also writing this to address those who don't believe police brutality in general is much of an issue. I understand there are a certain percentage of people, who believe it is fair, and justified, for police who are operating in neighborhoods like I have mentioned to deal with the people there differently than how they deal with the rest of the population. That attitude is something like, 'well if you're in that neighborhood you're probably a criminal or are harboring a criminal, and you got what's coming to you'. I'm not addressing this to those people. I don't believe that attitude is right, and I know that a lot of innocent people get caught up in the crossfire of that attitude, but I understand it. And it is attitude that does not refuse to see the brutality of police, but rather sees it is justifiable brutality.

I have witnessed so many blatant instances of police being disrespectful to people of no means, black, brown, white, it is hard to pick a single example. I've seen 3 cops beat a guy, cuff him and throw him in the back of a pickup truck, just because he startled them when he came down a stairway at the wrong time. They were about to try to arrest a parolee who had ran and got away from them twice previously. They pitched this guy in the back of the pickup because they didn't want to take the time to walk out to their car at the time. They never took him to jail because they had no reason to beat him down and cuff him in the first place.

I've seen police arrest a 32-year-old female eight months pregnant for a warrant that had already been satisfied. When the dispatch came back that the warrant was no good the police pulled over and let her out to walk almost 3 miles back home at 3AM during a winter cold streak. The previous nights lows had been under 20, that night the temp only dropped to 28, but when she got back to the house she was sobbing and shivering uncontrollably. She had asked the cops if they could call her BF so he could come pick her up, and they said no she needed the exercise, and maybe if she was lucky she could walk that gut off, (referring to the baby).

I have seen police come into a homeless encampment and after yelling a couple of times for everybody to come out of their tents, they then proceeded to stomp down the tents and makeshift lean to's. Under one of these makeshift lean to's was a drunk passed out from the night before, and after one of the cops almost fell on his ass after stepping on him, the other two proceeded to beat him under the tarp with their billy clubs until he crawled out.

I could easily go on for a couple of pages with times I have witnessed, or been involved with police brutality that had no apparent relationship to race. Many of these instances did not involve a person or people that had committed any crime at all. (Unless you consider having no means to fight back against such disrespect, and abuse a crime.) were some of these people criminals, (not in the examples above) that perhaps deserved being beat? To be honest maybe some had an ass whipping coming, but I don't think we ever want to give that sort of discretion to our police? And, by only focusing on the race element of police abusing their power, we risk missing the big picture of police brutality and abuse of their power in general, and continue to allow them that discretion, as long as they are more careful to not get caught brutalizing ppl of color.

 

[camstory]

Well I don't do T.V. but just heard on the radio that the man killed in N.Y. (I think) had startled the police in a stairwell.

just because he startled them when he came down a stairway at the wrong time.

Well it seems stairways are a dangerous place. Actually the guy who I knew was on the patio at the bottom of the stairs, but I guess he is lucky he was not shot.

Below are two videos of police brutality I found very easily. The bottom two links are about a killing by the Concord PD. I was thinking to ride to the store after posting this, but I'm in Concord - maybe I'll wait till morning.

http://www.policebrutality.info/2013/10 ... woman.html
http://www.policebrutality.info/2014/05 ... rrest.html
http://patch.com/california/martinez/in ... narmed-man
http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts ... by-concord

 

[ACFFAN69]

Here's one I posted to my facebook a few months ago. I don't know how famous a case this was though, it didn't get air play in Canada, but I found it from another forum.
I found this one shocking.



"Why did you pull me over sir?" "A seatbelt violation". Wut?!?!?! :shock:
He has pled not guilty, and is facing 20 years in prison. The trial is still ongoing based on what cursory google searches tell me.

EDIT: I just want to add, I think the majority of police officers are awesome, especially the ones here in Canada. I don't want my two posts here to sound like cop bashing. I just think a small percent spoil the bunch, and that there is clearly something wrong when looking at the way common folk view them.

 

[eclipse76]

Here's one I posted to my facebook a few months ago. I don't know how famous a case this was though, it didn't get air play in Canada, but I found it from another forum.
I found this one shocking.



"Why did you pull me over sir?" "A seatbelt violation". Wut?!?!?! :shock:
He has pled not guilty, and is facing 20 years in prison. The trial is still ongoing based on what cursory google searches tell me.

EDIT: I just want to add, I think the majority of police officers are awesome, especially the ones here in Canada. I don't want my two posts here to sound like cop bashing. I just think a small percent spoil the bunch, and that there is clearly something wrong when looking at the way common folk view them.

I've just looked up this and there's another video of his dashcam where he tells what happened to his supervisor…
http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/chill ... 5257667981

which is a bunch of crazy lies.

 

[MrRodry]

"... high five..."

:?

 

[camstory]

I have heard here, and whenever this discussion of police doing the wrong thing comes up, that it is only a few bad apples, or a few bad cops. In fact whenever there is an evil abuse of power by one or a small group of ppl in a system that is not designed to be evil, we are told by ppl defending the system, that this abuse was an isolated instances, and those involved are not representative of the majority of the ppl in that system.

I would like to believe there are absolutely no bad apples, or no bad cops. I think that is too wishful, but I believe there are very, very, few cops that are truly evil ppl. I am so sure that the % of evil ppl who are police officers is so tiny, that any comparison to the evil cops do, would be ridiculous. The evil that cops, and other ppl in positions of unchecked power do, can not be explained with the bad apple theory. The evil that is done is far greater than the very few bad apples/bad ppl.

by and large it is not the ppl who are bad in these situations where they act evil. Police and other ppl in power very often experience cognitive dissonance within a system that conflicts with their basic nature of being a good person. (cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.)

Many studies have been conducted around the abuse of power, and the power of power to turn otherwise good ppl evil, or to facilitate evil acts. One of the most noted of these was conducted by Philip G. Zimbardo Professor Emeritus of Psychology at Stanford in 1971. It is commonly known as the Stanford prison experiment. 24 students volunteered and 12 were randomly chosen as guards, and 12 as prisoners. The experiment got out of control and had to be stopped, - not even professor Zimbardo realized how abusive the experiment had become.

I am going to quote part of Zimbardo's (acting as warden) instructions to his guards at the start of the experiment.

"you can create a notion of arbitrariness that their life is totally controlled by us, by the system, you, me, and they'll have no privacy ... We're going to take away their individuality in various ways. In general what all this leads to is a sense of powerlessness. That is, in this situation we'll have all the power and they'll have none."

Sound like any situation you might have ever been in? To understand why the "few bad cops" mahantra does not work, please watch the TED Talk with P. Zimbardo below. It runs 22 minutes, but it really explains a lot, and if you are reading this, you must be interested, and you likely will glean more knowledge from that 22 minutes than all my post together.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I have heard here, and whenever this discussion of police doing the wrong thing comes up, that it is only a few bad apples, or a few bad cops. In fact whenever there is an evil abuse of power by one or a small group of ppl in a system that is not designed to be evil,


I am so sure that the % of evil ppl who are police officers is so tiny, that any comparison to the evil cops do, would be ridiculous. The evil that cops, and other ppl in positions of unchecked power do, can not be explained with the bad apple theory. The evil that is done is far greater than the very few bad apples/bad ppl.

by and large it is not the ppl who are bad in these situations where they act evil. Police and other ppl in power very often experience cognitive dissonance within a system that conflicts with their basic nature of being a good person.

When I first went to college, some 25 years ago, I took a criminology course that went over the entire criminal justice system. One of the lengthy chapters was on the paradox of police officers.

Not all of them are bad or evil. But the job itself is one of authority, power over others, and dominance in general. Add to that they are given guns, and the authority to kill, to back up their power. People who are, by their very nature, ones who wish to exert dominance over others, and are all around control freaks (megalomaniacs, narcissists) are drawn to the job in large numbers. Not all are that way. But a much higher percentage of them are that personality over other every day jobs.

The paradox is that is exactly the kind of personality society does not need or want in that position. The cases making the news are not new, they've been happening for decades. Just the coverage of them has grown exponentially with the age of the internet and cell phone video recording.

 

[camstory]

People who are, by their very nature, ones who wish to exert dominance over others, and are all around control freaks (megalomaniacs, narcissists) are drawn to the job in large numbers... that is exactly the kind of personality society does not need or want in that position...

I agree 100%. I am pleasantly surprised every time I meet a cop that has been on the job for any length of time, who does not seem to be on a massive power trip. I think it must be very tough, and I bet a large % of rookie cops who quite, quite b/c their conflicted with what their being asked to do, and what they feel is right. It is 180 out, in that the job can drive off the very sort of ppl who might do it pretty well.

The cases making the news are not new, they've been happening for decades. Just the coverage of them has grown exponentially with the age of the internet and cell phone video recording

Absolutely! I think the job has changed some, with police facing ever more violent and ruthless threats. But the adversarial Us Vs Them way in which most police operate all the time now days, does nothing but make things worse. And one could argue that the increased violence and ruthlessness are products of a increasingly hostile environment, that in part is shaped by the systems that govern it. The chicken and the egg argument. But yes, the accountability that tech is now allowing it is a good thing I think - for everyone involved.

I found some footage of the Stanley Milgram experiment that Zimbardo talks about in the TED Talk. I used to get up at 5AM to watch telecourses broadcast on public access. One of the courses was on psychology and the one hour segment I remember best was devoted to Stanley Milgram's experiment, and showed a lot more than what i found easy, but i'm sure it would not be hard to find more.

 

[Bocefish]

People who are, by their very nature, ones who wish to exert dominance over others, and are all around control freaks (megalomaniacs, narcissists) are drawn to the job in large numbers... that is exactly the kind of personality society does not need or want in that position...

Color me naive, but I'd like to think there are always improving and there will eventually be sufficient psych tests to weed out at least the most undesirables in that category.

That said, there is no shortage of LEOs who either slip by those built in failsafes or grow to be heartless power drunk assholes.

Confidence in our legal system has decreased substantially across all skin color lines.

On the other hand, the percentage of these bad LEOs is miniscule in the overall police community. Every single person I've ever met that wanted to serve as a police officer wanted to do so nobly and for the right reasons. ETA: I often wonder if the percentage of bad cops is really diminishing, but the percentage of the bad ones being caught on cam is exponentially increasing.

The following is just one incidence that LEOS have to deal with on a daily basis, or at least the possibility of it. As mentioned before... most LEOs are people like you and me who just want to do their job and go home to their loved ones at the end of the day.

Trigger warning: Video may contain graphic violent images unsuitable for some viewers:


https://www.facebook.com/ticoj/posts/10 ... tif_t=like

 

[JerryBoBerry]

People who are, by their very nature, ones who wish to exert dominance over others, and are all around control freaks (megalomaniacs, narcissists) are drawn to the job in large numbers... that is exactly the kind of personality society does not need or want in that position...

Color me naive, but I'd like to think there are always improving and there will eventually be sufficient psych tests to weed out at least the most undesirables in that category.

I'd like to think so too. All i know is it was a big enough problem to be included in textbooks about criminology 25 years ago. And studies done today, still find it to be an ongoing problem.

THE ABUSE OF POLICE AUTHORITY
A National Study of Police Officers’ Attitudes
Conducted by The Police Foundation
http://www.policefoundation.org/sites/pftest1.drupalgardens.com/files/AOAFull.pdf

Page 24.

More than 30 percent of the sample expressed the opinion that “police officers are not permitted to use as much force as is often necessary in making arrests”

Almost 25 percent felt that it is sometimes acceptable to use more force than legally allowable to control a person who physically assaults an officer. A very substantial minority, more than 4 of 10, told us that always following the rules is not compatible with getting the job done

Page 25.

When asked about their perceptions of the behavior of officers in their own departments, almost 22 percent of the weighted sample suggested that officers in their department sometimes (or often, or always) use more force than necessary, and only 16 percent reported that they never did so (see Table 4.2). Although the large majority of respondents felt that it is inappropriate to respond to verbal abuse with physical force, almost 15 percent thought that officers in their department engaged in such behavior sometimes (or often, or always)

Page 55.

Our study suggests that most police in the United States understand the importance of limits to police authority, and are sensitive to the dangers of corruption and abuse of force. Nonetheless, police abuses of authority are a continuing reality in American policing, as is the “code of silence”that shields those who do abuse their authority.

The full report is a lengthy one, going over all the questions asked along with the results. But it is an interesting read.

 

[JoleneBrody]

I honestly wonder how much the absolute abysmal pay vs. the intense workload and hours has to do with the caliber of people enrolling in the police academy in the first place?

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I honestly wonder how much the absolute abysmal pay vs. the intense workload and hours has to do with the caliber of people enrolling in the police academy in the first place?

Out of curiosity what would you consider to be 'absolute abysmal pay' in a yearly amount? Just trying to get an idea what you think the average is versus what you think the average should be.

 

[camstory]

On the other hand, the percentage of these bad LEOs is miniscule in the overall police community.
Every single person I've ever met that wanted to serve as a police officer wanted to do so nobly and for the right reasons.
LEOs are people like you and me who just want to do their job and go home to their loved ones at the end of the day.

I agree with all of the above. But, I don't think that is the whole picture. I believe the % of cops that are truly bad ppl, (mean, uncaring, vindictive, cruel,) is low. Which is part of the reason why I think it does not take truly bad ppl to do truly bad things, b/c in my experience more cops than not are capable of doing bad things, and I do not believe more cops than not are truly bad ppl. I do believe most cops start out with some very honorable intentions, but I wonder what % is at least a little be disappointed with what they find to be their experience in their first year?

 

[camstory]

I honestly wonder how much the absolute abysmal pay vs. the intense workload and hours has to do with the caliber of people enrolling in the police academy in the first place?

Out of curiosity what would you consider to be 'absolute abysmal pay' in a yearly amount? Just trying to get an idea what you think the average is versus what you think the average should be.

In this area, (east SF bay area) most or maybe all police agencies have a higher yearly starting wage than the highest paying school district pays first year teachers. In some cases the entry level pay of police is more than double that of public teachers.

The Alameda county sheriff entry level pay is 62-85K, and the Oakland P.D. Police Officer Entry Level (2012) annual salary was $69,912 to $98,088. Average total compensation for an OPD employee is $162,000. In 2012, 179 Oakland police officers took home over $200,000 in total compensation. Three patrol officers, a sergeant, and a captain each took home over $300,000. In 2011 the Police Department's costs made up 44% of the city's $400 million general budget.

The requirement to become an officer of the OPD are HS diploma/GED/equivalency, and 26 weeks, (weeks, not months) academy training.

 

[JoleneBrody]

I honestly wonder how much the absolute abysmal pay vs. the intense workload and hours has to do with the caliber of people enrolling in the police academy in the first place?

Out of curiosity what would you consider to be 'absolute abysmal pay' in a yearly amount? Just trying to get an idea what you think the average is versus what you think the average should be.

Well like any career the salary increases over time and promotions but considering the level of risk and hours involved it's pretty damn low.
I don't know the actual numbers but I'm sure that's a quick and easy search away. However I take this from my Uncle who's a veteran officer in upstate NY as well as the officers I knew around in my old (I've moved) very small and very low cost of living town. If I can live in a mini mansion for about $1,000 a month why is a rookie police officer who risks his life only able to afford a single wide trailer?

I know I personally wouldn't be willing to risk my life for 12 hours or more a day for a teachers salary. Which I've always been explained it's very similar wage, and a quick google search proved that it's actually almost identical.
Though it varies a little more by location than a teachers salary does.



However most teaching takes years of education, where the police academy is not nearly as time consuming or difficult.
So You probably have one of two people wanting to be cops. People who are passionate about being a police officer (good cops) and people who just needed a career and police academy was there.
It's really not that hard to become a police officer, at least not as hard as it should be and the reward is not exactly very enticing to those who are really driven for serve the people. Many of those people chose university over police academy to go onto criminal justice.

but worthwhile salary is subjective I'm sure. Some people probably think they make too much or just enough, it is my personal opinion that I, as a decent human being uninterested in hurting people, would not risk my life for that salary.

@camstory I also know telemarketers in the bay area who make $25 an hour because the cost of living is so high there. I personally am speaking on national averages. The bay area is known for being one of the most expensive places in the U.S to live so I would hardly consider the salary averages of the area to be comparable to the average U.S city or town.
And we were writing at the same time there, the teacher comment was a coincidence but I mention it because my mother is a seasoned teacher and my Uncle is a seasoned police officer, so I just happen to have first hand experience with both in the family.

 

[mynameisbob84]

I could well be wrong, but I feel like the pay vs risk thing is maybe too subjective to be too big a factor. The average police salary seems to be about $47k, which by all accounts is a very good wage (well above average anyway). There's obviously a risk that comes with that wage, but to put it in some perspective, there are around 150 police officers killed in the line of duty in America each year compared to around 4000 factory workers dying in factory-related accidents per year. The average factory worker's salary is around $25k, just over half that of the average police officer. So going purely off of those numbers, police officers are at least somewhat financially compensated for risking their lives, at least in comparison to factory workers. But therein lies the rub; it's all relative. What one person might view as a fair wage for a job that puts them at risk on a daily basis, another might not. Especially if that person is used to earning very good pay without having to risk their lives. I would imagine that $47k would be considered a fairly good wage by most people though. :twocents-02cents:

 

[Shaun__]

I could well be wrong, but I feel like the pay vs risk thing is maybe too subjective to be too big a factor. The average police salary seems to be about $47k, which by all accounts is a very good wage (well above average anyway). There's obviously a risk that comes with that wage, but to put it in some perspective, there are around 150 police officers killed in the line of duty in America each year compared to around 4000 factory workers dying in factory-related accidents per year. The average factory worker's salary is around $25k, just over half that of the average police officer. So going purely off of those numbers, police officers are at least somewhat financially compensated for risking their lives, at least in comparison to factory workers. But therein lies the rub; it's all relative. What one person might view as a fair wage for a job that puts them at risk on a daily basis, another might not. Especially if that person is used to earning very good pay without having to risk their lives. I would imagine that $47k would be considered a fairly good wage by most people though. :twocents-02cents:

Cops make their real money with overtime, and part time security jobs. Also the bad cops get a little on the side as well. Just looking at base salaries may give you a low estimate of what they earn.

 

[camstory]

@camstory I also know telemarketers in the bay area who make $25 an hour because the cost of living is so high there. I personally am speaking on national averages. The bay area is known for being one of the most expensive places in the U.S to live so I would hardly consider the salary averages of the area to be comparable to the average U.S city or town.
And we were writing at the same time there, the teacher comment was a coincidence but I mention it because my mother is a seasoned teacher and my Uncle is a seasoned police officer, so I just happen to have first hand experience with both in the family.

Yea, I did not mean to suggest anything one way or the other as far as whether police are paid good, bad, or about right. I do think teachers should be paid better than they generally are. I figured the pay here was above averaged, but I did not know it is close to double. I also think we would benefit by requiring our LEO's to have more education/training than the mostly procedural 6 months of academy training.

Bottom line, regardless of compensation, education, training, IQ, or even overall caliber of ppl, there will be abuses of power, (brutality, violations of basic human rights, excessive lethal force, and general disrespect), as long as we continue to give police the sort of power we do without much better oversight, and as long as the vast majority of ppl continue to view the abuse of power by LEO's as the exception, rather than the rule. (I'm not suggesting most police abuse their power most of the time. I am saying from my experience most police do at times abuse their power, and of those who don't, almost all are complicit in the abuse done by the others.)

 

[MrRodry]

Key Witness In Michael Brown Case May Not Have Actually Seen Him Die, Report Says

A new report from The Smoking Gun calls into question the testimony and character of a grand jury witness who corroborated police officer Darren Wilson's account of shooting Michael Brown.

The Smoking Gun confirmed that Sandra McElroy, a 45-year-old St. Louis resident who has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, is Witness 40, the person whose testimony aligned with Wilson's account of how he killed Brown, an unarmed black teenager, in Ferguson, Missouri, in August.

In a journal entry purportedly written just after the altercation, McElroy wrote that Brown charged at Wilson "like a football player, head down." McElroy's description of events contradicted testimony from Dorian Johnson and other witnesses who said Brown had his hands up before Wilson shot at him 13 times.

But The Smoking Gun reported that McElroy changed her story about why she was in Ferguson, has a history of making racist comments online and once inserted herself into another case by lying to police. The outlet also said McElroy "was nowhere near Canfield Drive on the Saturday afternoon Brown was shot to death."

McElroy's journal, where she described seeing the shooting, says she went to Florissant, Missouri, a town near Ferguson, on the morning of Brown's death to "understand the Black race better so I stop calling Blacks Niggers and Start calling them People." And in a subsequent entry describing the Brown-Wilson encounter, McElroy describes Brown as a "big kid" who "started running right at the cop" and "wouldn't stop" even after the first three gunshots.

The Smoking Gun describes how McElroy did not mention the journal's existence when she was first questioned by police, and how her description of events does not appear to be contemporaneous.

McElroy did not contact police until four weeks after she allegedly witnessed the shooting. During those four weeks, McElroy posted on Facebook in support of Wilson, writing "Prayers, support God Bless Officer Wilson," and posting a comment about slavery on a news story about the case, The Smoking Gun reported.

The Smoking Gun also says McElroy changed her story after she originally spoke to police. Officers were skeptical of her account, wondering why she had happened to drive 30 miles to Ferguson from her home in St. Louis. McElroy originally claimed to be visiting an old classmate in Ferguson, telling police she stopped to smoke a cigarette and ask directions because she did not have the correct address or a cell phone number. Later, she testified she had gone to Ferguson to better understand African-Americans.

Since the identities of the grand jurors in the Darren Wilson case are secret, it is difficult to calculate the degree to which McElroy's testimony affected the outcome or how seriously prosecutors considered it. Among the dozens of witnesses who offered conflicting versions of events, Witness 40's story stood out for the way it "tracked" to Wilson's account, The Smoking Gun noted.

Even without McElroy's testimony, the evidence that the grand jury considered has been criticized as flawed. Wilson, after shooting Brown, washed the evidence off his body at the police station, and the first officer to interview Wilson didn't bother taking any notes. As ThinkProgress noted, these and other errors may have helped tip the case in Wilson's favor.

Prosecutor Robert McCulloch even cast doubt on many of the witness testimonies, saying that they "made statements inconsistent with other statements they made and also conflicting with the physical evidence. Some were completely refuted by physical evidence."

Source

Link to The Smoking Gun report.

 

[eclipse76]

I honestly wonder how much the absolute abysmal pay vs. the intense workload and hours has to do with the caliber of people enrolling in the police academy in the first place?

Out of curiosity what would you consider to be 'absolute abysmal pay' in a yearly amount? Just trying to get an idea what you think the average is versus what you think the average should be.

The requirement to become an officer of the OPD are HS diploma/GED/equivalency, and 26 weeks, (weeks, not months) academy training.

Ha even for officer?
Here the basic cop need a GED and a year of training.
But an officer, with real "search warrant" powers, needs GED+3 years of law school then 18 months of training.

*edited*

 

[Teagan]

I honestly wonder how much the absolute abysmal pay vs. the intense workload and hours has to do with the caliber of people enrolling in the police academy in the first place?

Out of curiosity what would you consider to be 'absolute abysmal pay' in a yearly amount? Just trying to get an idea what you think the average is versus what you think the average should be.

The requirement to become an officer of the OPD are HS diploma/GED/equivalency, and 26 weeks, (weeks, not months) academy training.

Ha even for officer?
Here the basic cop need a GED and a year of training.
But an officer, with real "search warrant" powers, needs GED+3 years of law school then 18 months of training.

*edited*

Guess that really depends on where you are. I have friends who have been turned down to even be a basic cop or be a county sheriff. Ones with bachelors degrees in sociology and criminal justice have been turned down. You have to have a GED at least, have never once done drugs, pass a lie detector test, psychological exams up the ass, individual interviews, and of course the physicals. One had an Uncle on the inside higher up and couldnt even get hired. All of them because they had done drugs in the past mind you and passed every other thing with flying colors. Im sure every force has different rules but passing on people who once did a drug here or there is just stupid. Ive seen an article a couple weeks ago about a guy suing cause he was passed up for scoring to high on the IQ test. Stupid stupid.

 

[MrRodry]

Some witnesses lied to Michael Brown grand jury, McCulloch says. So why have them testify?



Certain witnesses who spoke before the grand jury investigating the Aug. 9 shooting of Michael Brown told obvious lies under oath, St. Louis Prosecuting Attorney Robert McCulloch said Friday.

“Clearly some were not telling the truth,” he said during an interview on KTRS 550. He added that he's not planning to pursue charges against any lying witnesses.

In his first extensive interview since the grand jury decided not to indict Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson, McCulloch said he had no regrets about letting grand jury members hear from non-credible witnesses.

“Early on I decided that anyone who claimed to have witnessed anything would be presented to the grand jury,” McCulloch said. He added that he would've been criticized no matter his decision.

During the interview, McCulloch referenced a woman who claimed to have seen the shooting.

This “lady clearly wasn't present,” McCulloch said. “She recounted a story right out of the newspaper,” backing up Wilson's version of events.

The criticism of that witness fits the questions surrounding Sandra McElroy, also known as Witness 40.

McElroy, who's admitted to using racial slurs and trying to raise money for Wilson, testified that she saw the entire shooting unfold, and that Brown charged the officer shortly before he was killed — a detail that has proven controversial because of conflicting reports.

Investigators picked apart McElroy's story, saying she could not have left the apartment complex in the way she described.

She also gave conflicting accounts of why she was at the scene of the shooting that day and admitted that she has short-term memory problems from a head-on collision that left her with a traumatic brain injury.

McCulloch on Friday also said he had no regrets about announcing the grand jury decision after dark on the night of Nov. 24.

“There was no good time to make the announcement,” he said. “Whatever was going to happen was going to happen.”

The nighttime decision, he said, was good for area schools and also allowed business owners time to decide if they would open the next day.

Of the riots that followed the announcement, McCulloch said they were out of his control.

“Those who were bent on destruction, they weren't demonstrators, they're common criminals,” he said.

McCulloch also took aim at critics who've claimed that he couldn't be impartial when it comes to prosecuting law enforcement officers.

His father, brother, nephew and cousin all served with St. Louis police; his mother worked with the department as a clerk.

McCulloch was 12 years old in July 1964 when his father, police officer Paul McCulloch, was shot and killed in a gunbattle with a kidnapper at the former Pruitt-Igoe public-housing complex.

In the 1990s, McCulloch's cousin Thomas Moran, a police sergeant, was demoted for failing to properly supervise his officers. Moran had been charged and later acquitted in the beating of Gregory Bell in the mentally disabled teenager's own home.

Officers testified that Moran beat the teenager after he was handcuffed and sprayed him with pepper spray.

On Friday, McCulloch said his family history “has not hindered our ability to look at these things.” He said his office has investigated more than 50 cases where police conduct was in question. He said if there's one thing he would do differently, he would've spoken publicly about his background.

McCulloch also said no one questioned his impartiality a month before the Brown shooting, when on July 6 a Pine Lawn police officer fatally shot Christopher Maurice Jones, 30, of Bel-Ridge.

McCulloch specifically called out Pine Lawn Director of Public Safety Anthony Gray, who also works as an attorney representing Brown's parents.

Gray has publicly questioned McCulloch's ability to be unbiased in prosecuting a member of law enforcement.

“Anthony Gray had no questions about my ability to be fair in the Pine Lawn shooting,” McCulloch said Friday. “It shows you how phony that argument is.”

Gray fired back in an interview with the St. Louis Post-Dispatch Friday calling the two shootings apples and oranges.

The Jones case involved a high-speed chase, a visible gun holster and a single gunshot wound. In the case of Brown, there was no fear that Brown was armed and he was shot multiple times, Gray said.

“To compare the two does a great disservice to the atrocity of the Michael Brown Jr. shooting,” Gray said.

Source