Ernest Duenez WARNING GRAPHIC VIDEO!

[Mirra]

I didn't watch it 'cos... well, I don't wanna watch a guy get shot to death. Does somebody deserve to die because they're stupid? Absolutely not. Can I understand why a police officer would shoot to kill a felon who is refusing to cooperate and seemingly reaching for a weapon? Absolutely. Could it have been handled differently? Sure.

As to whether I should be commenting without watching the video... I guess that's up for debate. If my opinion had any bearing on anything at all (the fate of the police officer for example) then obviously not. If it's just an opinion being put forward for the sake of discussion in a thread designed to encourage discussion, I reckon I'm on fairly safe ground

fyi, in the clip I posted from the PDS the video is paused just before the shooting happens and when it goes back to the video to show dude's wife running out to him, Ernesto is covered by a blurry censor box. No gore.

 

[SoTxBob]

such an old incident... but a few thoughts.
Criminals aren't known for higher thinking. They also usually have a flight pattern of some sort in their mind when they see cops. Yes, he should have reacted differently when the cop told him to do whatever. BUT, despite that part, the cop over reacted by a mile. First shots started when his hand was on the top of the door and the cab. The supposed 'reaching back inside' appeared to be as a result of bullet impact. I'd chalk that up to cop adrenalin fog from having cornered his prey. Center mass, absolutely. Pull the trigger, it's not to wound them, it's to stop the threat, which sadly in this case, wasn't really there from the vid. Unloading the entire 13 shot clip was unnecessary, misses or not. The taps when Ernie was on the ground were completely unnecessary. You always hear stuff about southern 'Bubba' cops being so bad... from what all I've seen in the last handful of years, Calif. cops are right there with them, if not ahead of them, with the abuses they routinely dish out.

 

[bob]

Yes that is very true, but I still don't think Stupid is a reason to get killed.

i couldn't agree more....nobody deserves to die for being stupid.
but being stupid does send death an invite.....especially where there are other animals who are anxious and frightened nearby.

a man who is trained to wear the uniform and given a gun......is still a man with a gun....but now with authority....act stupid, and you'll pay a price.

 

[QuirkyElysian]

I haven't finished watching it but if you look at the video at 3mins and more you can see when they try to drag the body its caught and they have to cut something (I think the seat belt) to free him before dragging him more across the grass.

 

[Zoomer]

Different scenario (no car to obscure things) and some good policing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSn8mx7BqA0

not even a shot fired, despite a "pistol" being pulled (replica, the kid obviously did not recognise the danger he was in!).
And the cop had a good quick draw

 

[camstory]

when are people gonna learn when police tells you to do something, with a gun pointed at you... that you need to do just that
it might be an extreme view on it, but i sure as hell never gonna reach into a car/pocket or whatever... when a police man has a gun on me (i'll probably faint)
i do believe that shooting someone... with more people... for 11 fucking times... is excessive as fuck

i felt really sorry for the poor woman as well... jesus christ, this must be the most horrible thing to see happening to your man

edit to add:

when the fuck did shooting someone in the leg or arm became so rare? i understand that safety goes first... but he was clearly not carrying a gun
but... he was reaching for something... hell i dunno... i wasn't there... nvm i'll just leave it to that

I understand not shooting to wound, once you make the call to pull the trigger, as SoTx said it is center mass to drop the the target. I continue to feel the cops decision to fire was motivated more by his belief that he could get away with a "good shoot", rather than any fear he might have had. But only one person will ever really know, I would like to believe that will bother him, but I doubt it will.

And as bob said when you have two animals in a frightening situation someone is likely to get bit. (Not exactly what he said but the sentiment is the same.)

 

[Zoomer]

I realised one major difference... perhaps the UK Police undergo radically different training when it comes to firearms.

Our police officers do not carry firearms. Those that do are specialist units with very different training. Likewise, they're probably kitted out radically differently from the average US Trooper too.

(Armed response vehicle with kit - about 1 min 20 for the kit).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu9qlcWq8VM

Probably somewhere between your state trooper and your swat I imagine - so this may be the reason for differences in style/nerves.

 

[Zoomer]

Starting to think that perhaps our cops are just bloody nuts.

 

[Red7227]

Starting to think that perhaps our cops are just bloody nuts.

In Australia there would have been two cops and as soon as as the guy advanced towards someone he would have been shot, or these days tasered. Don't really see a problem with that either.

 

[camstory]

Starting to think that perhaps our cops are just bloody nuts.

In Australia there would have been two cops and as soon as as the guy advanced towards someone he would have been shot, or these days tasered. Don't really see a problem with that either.

Betja in the U.S. we would have shot him first. And tasers have only been in common use with U.S. cops for 10 or 12 years, so most likely would have been an after thought. I don't see anything wrong with him being tased, or beanbaged. Or hey, as a token of cop cooperation across the pond, we could send them fellas in the UK a case of pepper spray. We do our best to avoid using any of that non lethal ho-ha anyway. :lol:

The matador rubbish bin thing was a novel approach though. :whistle: