Ernest Duenez WARNING GRAPHIC VIDEO!

[Poker_Babe]

OMG has anyone seen this video yet? I just watched it last night for the first time and man... It is sooooo heart breaking when his wife come out running screaming and to trying to cradle her dying husband after the cop shoots him 11 times, only to be yelled at with guns pointed at her, then eventually dragged away from him.
I know he was a parolee at large, and I guess they found a crack pipe on him and all that jazz, but damn... I don't think he deserved to die because of it.
My bf says he should have known to listen to the cops better being a parolee at large, and that it was his own damn fault not to be more careful with his actions.
But idk, it doesn't seem to me that this guy was charging at the cop with a knife. He wasn't even barely out of the car before the cop unloaded on him.
Your thoughts?

http://www.news10.net/video/2032038...O-Police-dashboard-camera-of-Manteca-shooting

 

[Nordling]

Did they even find a knife? And I don't know anything but what kind of first aid consists of cutting off a tee shirt?

 

[Keithy]

Most types of emergency response works best without a shirt since you can see the rib cage and know where you have to press.

 

[Poker_Babe]

Most types of emergency response works best without a shirt since you can see the rib cage and know where you have to press.

They would have had to press all over his body then, the guy was Swiss cheese after that cop was through with him.

 

[Keithy]

Most types of emergency response works best without a shirt since you can see the rib cage and know where you have to press.

They would have had to press all over his body then, the guy was Swiss cheese after that cop was through with him.

Sorry, I was directly responding to the question asking "what kind of first aid consists of cutting off a tee shirt?" which is most of them.

 

[camstory]

32 seconds into it PB was all I needed. Was it justified? FUCK NO, FUCK NO!!! Will they get away with it considering there is a video showing that the cop, or anyone else was in no danger? Probably. It was a nigger on parole. (I use the language of ppl who will decide) I am having to rely on all those things I never learned in anger management classes right now, to keep from breaking something.

Your BF said he should have been smarter, - yes he should have. Is stupid a justifiable reason to off someone these days?

I'm out.

 

[Nordling]

Most types of emergency response works best without a shirt since you can see the rib cage and know where you have to press.

They would have had to press all over his body then, the guy was Swiss cheese after that cop was through with him.

Sorry, I was directly responding to the question asking "what kind of first aid consists of cutting off a tee shirt?" which is most of them.

Makes sense, but what kind of bugged me was the seemingly endless time the cop took cutting off a simple tee shirt, while the guy who was likely already dead slowly lost whatever chances he may have had.

 

[camstory]

Go Dorner, take out as many as you can.

I don't think this is right, but ppl should not be so puzzled about why some have this attitude.

 

[camstory]

Please don't any body, post that there was only 4 feet between the cop and the vic, and if the cop really thought he had a knife, it might have been justifiable. The cop rushed the vic, he had his gun drawn and on target, (bc that is what it was to the cop, - a target) and the furtive movement was out not toward. And even if it was toward, unless the vic had a 4 foot reach the cop was in no danger. Unless it was reasonable to think the vic was close enough to grab the gun, or stab the cop there is no justification for the cop to pull the trigger. And I wont even start with the 5 or 6 rounds that the cop pumped into him after he hit the ground.

 

[Mirra]

Oh hi there. I don't think it's quite as black and white as all that personally. Why? Because I've known about this for a couple months and have some other details. I originally heard about this watching the Philip DeFranco Show on YouTube. The part about Ernest starts 6 minutes and 5 seconds into the video. The following link should take you directly to that part...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qpYpuMkUJ4&t=6m5s

Or you can watch it below and skip forward (unless you decide PhillyD is pretty spiffy so you want to watch it all) to that part.

 

[Poker_Babe]

Will they get away with it considering there is a video showing that the cop, or anyone else was in no danger? Probably.

"The San Joaquin County District Attorney said the officer was justified in using deadly force when Duenez reached into the truck he was ordered to exit"

 

[camstory]

Just E-mailed this to someone, then called her on speaker phone while I feed the dog. what I heard was a lot of "OMG's," then several "Oh that poor woman", then, "now there dragging him across the lawn" then something I could not help but laugh at, "Now their putting cuffs on him" some stuff about cutting his shirt off, then she said they are yelling at him, but not getting response, I said, "they should shoot him again, maybe that would get his attention" If the OP is accurate and he took 11 rounds, I think any discussion about time wasted getting medical attention, is just spending wasted key strokes. The human body reacts very badly to the introduction of 11 pieces of lead moving at high velocity.

She also mentioned that this took place in 2011 in Manteca, Ca. I live less than 100 miles from Manteca, the fact that I never heard about it, would lead me to believe, that the most that may of happened, was the cop having to look for work. (prolly, working for Disney land or some SoCal rapid transit outfit as a cop.)

She also said that at 8 min+ they are still looking for a weapon. I'm thinking it went about like this.
Dave, (executioner dave), "Hey I can't find anything in his truck. even looked under the seat and in the glove box."
Kenny, :No problem, rich has that hot piece he took of dime bag larry that he keeps in his unit just in case.
rich: "I don't have that anymore, I sold it to me neighbor, you know the one who couldn't buy one because some fucking shrink said the guy was mental, just because he shoot up that bitches Prius, and they found out he was pres of the central valley klan chapter."
Dave, "hey what about that plant knife little rich always carries?"
kenny, " you mean dicky, he don't have that any more. Remember when we capped that illegal in the parking lot at the water slides?
:lol: :lol: :lol: ..... :icon-cry:
Sorry, sorta, but I have to laugh, cuz I don't like the alternative.

 

[camstory]

Will they get away with it considering there is a video showing that the cop, or anyone else was in no danger? Probably.

"The San Joaquin County District Attorney said the officer was justified in using deadly force when Duenez reached into the truck he was ordered to exit"

I apologize to anyone who might have found my first post here offensive, but I'm telling you that had much more to do with why they murdered this guy than anything the fucking DA might have said.

 

[Poker_Babe]

Remember when we capped that illegal in the parking lot at the water slides?

Just a side note, Manteca Water Slides have been gone since 2004
That place was awesome.

 

[camstory]

Remember when we capped that illegal in the parking lot at the water slides?

Just a side note, Manteca Water Slides have been gone since 2004
That place was awesome.

:lol: Well that shoots my bad cop theory all to hell then. But thanks I had planed to go there next weekend. :-D

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Seems justified to me. After the pickup door is open and he can clearly hear, the the cop yells for him to not move and put his hands up. But instead of doing as he's ordered he jumps out fast then makes a quick movement back into the cab. I'd have shot him right there too. No question about it.

Cop yells at you to not move it's generally a good idea to not move. ESPECIALLY if you're a known convict with assault with deadly weapons charges and you've been publicly brandishing a weapon a little bit prior to a cop showing up. If he'd have stayed seated and put his hands up instead he'd be alive today.

Very justified.

 

[Mirra]

If he'd have stayed seated and put his hands up instead he'd be alive today.

Or if he'd tried communicating the problem he was having with his foot being tangled in the seat belt. You know, kind of like the cop clearly communicated quite loudly that he would shoot him. A "Fuck! My foot's stuck!" may have sufficed. We'll never know.

 

[WildFingers]

I am not going to get in the discussion of right and wrong.

The smartest thing to do if you are pulled over by the police is to STAY IN THE CAR until instructed to exit.
When exiting said car follow the instructions of the person who is instructing you to exit the car and remain calm.

If these simple directions are followed or were followed Mr. Duenez might still be alive.

I am not a police officer nor have I ever been arrested. It is just common sense. Stay calm and follow instructions. no sudden movements.

 

[Poker_Babe]

an attorney representing Duenez’s family says the knife was in the bed of the pickup truck. He also states Duenez’s foot was caught in the seatbelt, preventing him from getting out of the truck. The dash cam video shows officers having to pull Duenez from the sideboard of the truck.

http://fox40.com/2012/12/13/graphic...t-victims-family-seeks-federal-investigation/

 

[AnaVictoriaXO]

Regardless of it being right or wrong, I feel TERRIBLE for the woman. Poor lady :icon-cry:

 

[TashaDutch]

when are people gonna learn when police tells you to do something, with a gun pointed at you... that you need to do just that
it might be an extreme view on it, but i sure as hell never gonna reach into a car/pocket or whatever... when a police man has a gun on me (i'll probably faint)
i do believe that shooting someone... with more people... for 11 fucking times... is excessive as fuck

i felt really sorry for the poor woman as well... jesus christ, this must be the most horrible thing to see happening to your man

edit to add:

when the fuck did shooting someone in the leg or arm became so rare? i understand that safety goes first... but he was clearly not carrying a gun
but... he was reaching for something... hell i dunno... i wasn't there... nvm i'll just leave it to that

 

[AnaVictoriaXO]

when are people gonna learn when police tells you to do something, with a gun pointed at you... that you need to do just that
it might be an extreme view on it, but i sure as hell never gonna reach into a car/pocket or whatever... when a police man has a gun on me (i'll probably faint)
i do believe that shooting someone... with more people... for 11 fucking times... is excessive as fuck

i felt really sorry for the poor woman as well... jesus christ, this must be the most horrible thing to see happening to your man

edit to add:

when the fuck did shooting someone in the leg or arm became so rare? i understand that safety goes first... but he was clearly not carrying a gun
but... he was reaching for something... hell i dunno... i wasn't there... nvm i'll just leave it to that

I wondered this too. I mean, I get that police need to react before someone actually pulls the trigger but the man had nothing (even though they didnt quite know that) but it seems extremely excessive with how many shots were fired at him without actually seeing a weapon on him.

 

[Red7227]

when the fuck did shooting someone in the leg or arm became so rare? i understand that safety goes first... but he was clearly not carrying a gun
but... he was reaching for something... hell i dunno... i wasn't there... nvm i'll just leave it to that

No such thing. Not that it would matter any way. The hydrashock or acukill or whatever the bullets are that police use are not meant to be kind. People will lose limbs and die from blood loss if hit with these things. Police training is also pretty much that if someone gives you an excuse to shoot them, do it until your gun clicks empty. The 11 or 13 times this guy was shot is pretty standard.

but he was clearly not carrying a gun but... he was reaching for something...

I've not been in that exact situation, but the threat of imminent death - which is what that policeman was facing if the guy was carrying a gun - really does't leave a lot of scope for half measures. The cop only got to see all of this once at full speed through a cloud of adrenaline with every action the guy taking being judged on a split second basis. Without knowing why the shot man was moving fast rather than slowly, and why he wanted to look like he was reaching for something, we can't really say what he was thinking. Doing what he did was going to get him shot 3 times out of 4, there really is no way around that.

 

[TashaDutch]

when the fuck did shooting someone in the leg or arm became so rare? i understand that safety goes first... but he was clearly not carrying a gun
but... he was reaching for something... hell i dunno... i wasn't there... nvm i'll just leave it to that

No such thing. Not that it would matter any way. The hydrashock or acukill or whatever the bullets are that police use are not meant to be kind. People will lose limbs and die from blood loss if hit with these things. Police training is also pretty much that if someone gives you an excuse to shoot them, do it until your gun clicks empty. The 11 or 13 times this guy was shot is pretty standard.

but he was clearly not carrying a gun but... he was reaching for something...

I've not been in that exact situation, but the threat of imminent death - which is what that policeman was facing if the guy was carrying a gun - really does't leave a lot of scope for half measures. The cop only got to see all of this once at full speed through a cloud of adrenaline with every action the guy taking being judged on a split second basis. Without knowing why the shot man was moving fast rather than slowly, and why he wanted to look like he was reaching for something, we can't really say what he was thinking. Doing what he did was going to get him shot 3 times out of 4, there really is no way around that.

guess it's just weird to see a video of it all... makes me confused
i always think the same you just described... if police is in danger they shoot, and i think they should

 

[mynameisbob84]

I didn't watch the video but if he refused to cooperate with the police, was a known felon, and appeared to be reaching for what might have been a weapon instead of doing what he was being told to do... it sounds harsh, but what did he expect to happen? If he hadn't been so stupid, he'd still be alive :twocents-02cents:

 

[camstory]

I didn't watch the video but if he refused to cooperate with the police, was a known felon, and appeared to be reaching for what might have been a weapon instead of doing what he was being told to do... it sounds harsh, but what did he expect to happen? If he hadn't been so stupid, he'd still be alive :twocents-02cents:

Yes that is very true, but I still don't think Stupid is a reason to get killed. And I don't care if everybody here tells me I wrong, and god himself jumps down out of his crazy tree and says it was justifiable, you wont convince me that cop felt threatened... He may have made the determination that the vics actions gave him cause to blow him the fuck away, and the vic very well may have been a waste of skin. But if what you base your determination of what is justifiable on is did the cop feel he was in danger, or was anyone else in danger, ( and I think that is how it should be determined), and also how the law reads, then that was not a justifiably kill. Everyone seems to be getting caught up in the fact that he made a reach back toward the cab of the truck... Well check yourself for a minute, and relax, and say to yourself, "Did Duenez even get his hand fully back into the cab of the truck?" No. "when he started his reach did the cop have his gun leveled on Duenez from point blank range?" yes. Now think about what had to next happen for the cop to be in any danger. The vic would have had to finish making his move into the cab with his hand. at that point he would have had to stop the motion toward the inside, grabbed a weapon, you know picked it up, got it in his hand so to speak. At that point his hand is still in the cab of the truck, and whatever weapon he has is pointed away from the cop. Now he has to reverse the momentum of his body arm and hand and pull the weapon back out of the cab, but he also has to bring his arm around and point the weapon at the cop before he is in any danger. :laughing-lettersrofl: Think about it, just think about it...

And Bob, I am very surprised at you. I think I understand why you have not looked at the video. and I so understand, I wish I hadn't, it's pretty dramatic, though what is in question, in my POV, happens in the first 32 seconds, and you don't have to watch all the heart wrenching shit. But come on sir, if you don't want to look at the video, should you be commenting on it?

 

[Mirra]

And I don't care if everybody here tells me I wrong, and god himself jumps down out of his crazy tree and says it was justifiable, you wont convince me that cop felt threatened... He may have made the determination that the vics actions gave him cause to blow him the fuck away, and the vic very well may have been a waste of skin. But if what you base your determination of what is justifiable on is did the cop feel he was in danger, or was anyone else in danger, ( and I think that is how it should be determined), and also how the law reads, then that was not a justifiably kill. Everyone seems to be getting caught up in the fact that he made a reach back toward the cab of the truck... Well check yourself for a minute, and relax, and say to yourself, "Did Duenez even get his hand fully back into the cab of the truck?" No. "when he started his reach did the cop have his gun leveled on Duenez from point blank range?" yes. Now think about what had to next happen for the cop to be in any danger. The vic would have had to finish making his move into the cab with his hand. at that point he would have had to stop the motion toward the inside, grabbed a weapon, you know picked it up, got it in his hand so to speak. At that point his hand is still in the cab of the truck, and whatever weapon he has is pointed away from the cop. Now he has to reverse the momentum of his body arm and hand and pull the weapon back out of the cab, but he also has to bring his arm around and point the weapon at the cop before he is in any danger. :laughing-lettersrofl: Think about it, just think about it...

Red covered a bit of this already, but I'll ask you to think for a moment. You're a police officer who is following a convicted felon. One of those felonies is for assault. You've been told by dispatch that he was known to have a throwing knife earlier in the day and may also have a gun. Your adrenaline is fucking pumped. Upon stopping at his house, you get out of your squad car and you shout for him to put his hands up. He comes busting out of the truck QUICKLY as you're yelling your intent to shoot him if needed while drawing your weapon and first thing he does after hurriedly exiting the truck is reach back into the cab rather than putting his hands up as you've instructed him to do so. If he's quick and accurate with a gun or a throwing knife, you have a couple of seconds at most between when he is armed (therefore your life is genuinely in danger) and when you could have a knife or bullet lodged in your face. Your adrenaline and heart rate are still climbing. You think quickly. You come to the conclusion that it could be your life or his.

You really blame the cop for firing on a convicted felon who was observed with a weapon earlier that same day who is NOT doing as you've directed him to do despite having clearly communicated your intentions? The results were brutal and made my stomach turn a flip, but it was effective. That's what he was trained to do. Ernie made every mistake but the last one. The cop did everything else properly. He communicated his expectations and intent if those were not met. Ernesto did not comply nor communicate his intentions. He had EVERY bit of power necessary to be alive today. If the cop had been right but had not shot, his hesitation could have cost his life. He ultimately made a mistake but only because he based his reaction on all the mistakes Ernesto had and was making.

I don't much care for cops. I hate speed traps and other bullshit like that when there are more important issues that aren't getting the attention they deserve. I hate the attitude some cops have with you even when you are complying with their demands. I cannot stand the power tripping even a little bit. In spite of all these things, I cannot logically place a majority of the blame the officer in the video for the outcome.

 

[mynameisbob84]

I didn't watch the video but if he refused to cooperate with the police, was a known felon, and appeared to be reaching for what might have been a weapon instead of doing what he was being told to do... it sounds harsh, but what did he expect to happen? If he hadn't been so stupid, he'd still be alive :twocents-02cents:

Yes that is very true, but I still don't think Stupid is a reason to get killed. And I don't care if everybody here tells me I wrong, and god himself jumps down out of his crazy tree and says it was justifiable, you wont convince me that cop felt threatened... He may have made the determination that the vics actions gave him cause to blow him the fuck away, and the vic very well may have been a waste of skin. But if what you base your determination of what is justifiable on is did the cop feel he was in danger, or was anyone else in danger, ( and I think that is how it should be determined), and also how the law reads, then that was not a justifiably kill. Everyone seems to be getting caught up in the fact that he made a reach back toward the cab of the truck... Well check yourself for a minute, and relax, and say to yourself, "Did Duenez even get his hand fully back into the cab of the truck?" No. "when he started his reach did the cop have his gun leveled on Duenez from point blank range?" yes. Now think about what had to next happen for the cop to be in any danger. The vic would have had to finish making his move into the cab with his hand. at that point he would have had to stop the motion toward the inside, grabbed a weapon, you know picked it up, got it in his hand so to speak. At that point his hand is still in the cab of the truck, and whatever weapon he has is pointed away from the cop. Now he has to reverse the momentum of his body arm and hand and pull the weapon back out of the cab, but he also has to bring his arm around and point the weapon at the cop before he is in any danger. :laughing-lettersrofl: Think about it, just think about it...

And Bob, I am very surprised at you. I think I understand why you have not looked at the video. and I so understand, I wish I hadn't, it's pretty dramatic, though what is in question, in my POV, happens in the first 32 seconds, and you don't have to watch all the heart wrenching shit. But come on sir, if you don't want to look at the video, should you be commenting on it?

I'm going by jodeum's description here...

Seems justified to me. After the pickup door is open and he can clearly hear, the the cop yells for him to not move and put his hands up. But instead of doing as he's ordered he jumps out fast then makes a quick movement back into the cab. I'd have shot him right there too. No question about it.

Cop yells at you to not move it's generally a good idea to not move. ESPECIALLY if you're a known convict with assault with deadly weapons charges and you've been publicly brandishing a weapon a little bit prior to a cop showing up. If he'd have stayed seated and put his hands up instead he'd be alive today.

Very justified.

I didn't watch it 'cos... well, I don't wanna watch a guy get shot to death. Does somebody deserve to die because they're stupid? Absolutely not. Can I understand why a police officer would shoot to kill a felon who is refusing to cooperate and seemingly reaching for a weapon? Absolutely. Could it have been handled differently? Sure.

As to whether I should be commenting without watching the video... I guess that's up for debate. If my opinion had any bearing on anything at all (the fate of the police officer for example) then obviously not. If it's just an opinion being put forward for the sake of discussion in a thread designed to encourage discussion, I reckon I'm on fairly safe ground

 

[driverxtc]

Regardless of it being right or wrong, I feel TERRIBLE for the woman. Poor lady :icon-cry:

In a way I don't feel bad for her and I do feel bad. Considering he had a previous arrest for domestic abuse. No person should lay a hand in violence. If he can abuse a loved one, can you imagine him beating on someone he dosen't care about? I also feel the shooting was justfied as far as I can tell. Also the reason she was pulled off of him so quickly was for officer/public saftey. Who knows he might've been still alive and might've been armed and could've possed a threat.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Replying to too many comments above to put quotes for all of them.

First off let me say I wish it hadn't happened too and i feel sorry for the family as well. This was an avoidable tragedy that didn't need to happen. But the many ways it could have been avoided all start with the guy who got shot.

The reason I say it was justified above is because when I looked at the video I simply asked myself the same things a review board would. Did the cop try to control the situation first or did he go in guns blazing without cause? Did he perceive the person to behave in a threatening manner? Before he fired his gun did he believe his life would be in jeopardy if he didn't pull the trigger?

The answer was yes to all of those questions. He very clearly YELLED for the guy to stay in the vehicle. The guy didn't thus proving he is willing to disobey a police order. The guy made a quick movement back into the cab that looked like he was grabbing for a weapon. It doesn't matter if he had one or not, completely pointless. The mere act of looking like you are going for one is cause in itself to fear a weapon will be brandished. Thus he would have reasonably feared in the next second a weapon would be used on him. You don't wait for a gun to be aimed directly at your head before you have cause. You shoot as soon as he's going for a gun BEFORE he even has a chance to aim it at you if you can.

As to the aiming for legs and arms comments. No, never ever aim for the legs and arms, ever. If you are in fear for your life enough to pull a trigger you aim center mass, always. Your objective is to stop the threat to your life. shooting a leg does not stop that threat. Plus the fact is arms and legs are smaller targets and your odds of even hitting them are incredibly low, even at that range. So you've wasted your ammunition and given the assailant time to shoot back. Bad choice! Not only is this standard police training but it's civilian self defense training as well. 'Double Tap Center Mass' is a saying for a reason. The only time aiming for a leg works is in the movies.

The reason he fired so many times is because odds are some of them would have missed, even at that close range. It's amazing how bad of shots cops and every day citizens really are when put in a life and death situation, combined with the fact you're carrying a gun with a three and a half inch barrel. In conceal and carry training you only need to be shooting at a target 7 yards away (at least here in Missouri). Yes, that's about the length of full sized family car. They know any further back is much harder to hit a full 'body sized' target. Most handguns are not designed for sharp shooting, they are meant for up close defense. If you notice, the cop in this video didn't waste any time getting up close and within range of the guy. Odds are if he had only been 5 feet further back some of those bullets would have missed.

I'm not a major fan of the abusive powers the police have and if this cop had done anything wrong I would be right there with you. But the only thing I can see he messed up on is after firing so many bullets he should have replaced the magazine immediately.