drugs should be legal (rant)

[katie_christ]

SWIM (someone who isn't me) just got sold some "super legit acid." SWIM considers itself to be pretty knowledgeable about drugs, and has recently gained a fascination with psychedelics. SWIM fascination's with anything (especially drugs) results in lots and lots of research. Lucky for SWIM, it knows a great deal about hallucinogens, and has read about or experienced many of the designer trips floating around. SWIM was not sold "super legit acid." SWIM was sold another chemical, that unlike acid, isn't odorless/tasteless. it was a lot more bitter than acid should be (but that could be brushed off as heavy ink on the paper)... minutes later, after the blotter was dissolved, SWIM realized it's tongue was numb. SWIM knew it was likely to be ripped off on acid. SWIM had been ripped off on acid before, had been sold LSD before, and had tried many of the designer trips voluntarily. SWIM was disappointed it had been ripped off and this wasn't "super legit acid," and continued with its night as if on any other trip.
but this was something that could easily be sold as acid. 10 hits of LSD (taken by someone who knows they're taking 10 hits of LSD) would not put one in the hospital for any physically life threatening emergencies. 10 hits of this stuff could most certainly land you in the ER because it's highly amphetamine based, and not at all like LSD chemically. SWIM is lucky because it knows. someone who isn't as familiar could easily assume they're about to get "super legit acid" (which can be combined with a HOST of other illicit drugs with no or little adverse effects) and take several hits of the "super legit acid" not knowing it is an amphetamine based designer trip, and do GOD KNOWS WHAT ELSE (another popular party drug maybe, MDMA? omigosh more amphetamines! let's throw in some alcohol so you're not really sure wtf is going on because you're tripping?rolling?cranked? drunk!). someone who isn't familiar would land itself in the hospital having a normal party night and never really know why and probably blame it on the "super legit acid."
if drugs were legal and regulated, more mistakes like that could be avoided.

 

[mross2_]

Graham Hancock says it best:

 

[LadyLuna]

The only way to get rid of all the danger surrounding drugs is to make them legal. So I completely agree with you on this.

 

[SoTxBob]

While I'm ok with legalization, I will always be concerned with the folks that.... aren't real good at making sound decisions and evaluating the pros and cons, but rather that follow others blindly down the rabbit hole.

A bit of a sideways turn here.... legalization would also make it easier to implement ones personal right to die for those with terminal illness.

 

[Red7227]

While I'm ok with legalization, I will always be concerned with the folks that.... aren't real good at making sound decisions and evaluating the pros and cons, but rather that follow others blindly down the rabbit hole.

Well, they still have drinking, smoking and gambling to destroy their lives, adding drugs won't change much.

 

[katie_christ]

Graham Hancock says it best:

^^that guy. there should be an allowance for responsible adult use and if you aren't responsible, we already have laws for that. the war on drugs is a war of the US government against its citizens, and we've dragged the rest of the world into it (of course).

While I'm ok with legalization, I will always be concerned with the folks that.... aren't real good at making sound decisions and evaluating the pros and cons, but rather that follow others blindly down the rabbit hole.

A bit of a sideways turn here.... legalization would also make it easier to implement ones personal right to die for those with terminal illness.

i feel that if you lack sound decision making skills, then you get what's coming to you. with proper legalization, there would ideally be regulations and public education to curb irresponsible use. of course people would still screw up, and they would suffer the consequences. maybe we could weed some idiots out of the gene pool? (off with the warning labels!)
i believe in the personal right to die, but had never really considered legalization as a way to make that a more obtainable option. medical science is forcing us to live much longer than we ever have, keeping many people alive just because it's possible, not regarding the quality of that life. if one feels they need to die, then that should be their decision. as it stands, there is no such thing in the US. in many places one may be actually/basically punished for attempting suicide. you get the "help" you need. i believe anyone, not only those with terminal illness, should be allowed to end their lives if they so decide. you don't consent to your birth, you should at least be able to consent to your own death.

Well, they still have drinking, smoking and gambling to destroy their lives, adding drugs won't change much.

and there are a SLEW of other things one can do to destroy their own life! until you harm another person's well-being, it's only your business. why should i be penalized for not wearing the seat belt in a car or not wearing a helmet on a bike? if i want to take that risk, i should be allowed. i could name a dozen other things we punish people for (in one way or another) when they're only risking their own bodies and health, and a dozen things that could more realistically be included in those "big brother" type laws. it's ridiculous. but that's just my :twocents-02cents:

 

[camstory]

A bit of a sideways turn here.... legalization would also make it easier to implement ones personal right to die for those with terminal illness.

i believe in the personal right to die, but had never really considered legalization as a way to make that a more obtainable option. medical science is forcing us to live much longer than we ever have, keeping many people alive just because it's possible, not regarding the quality of that life. if one feels they need to die, then that should be their decision. as it stands, there is no such thing in the US. in many places one may be actually/basically punished for attempting suicide.

It is legal in the state of Oregon. I did not know the particulars, but here's what I found.

Measure 16 of 1994 established the U.S. state of Oregon's Death with Dignity Act (ORS 127.800-995[1]), which legalizes physician-assisted suicide with certain restrictions. Passage of this initiative made Oregon the first U.S. state and one of the first jurisdictions in the world to permit some terminally ill patients to determine the time of their own death.

This was later sent to the supreme court, and...

The act was challenged by the George W. Bush administration, but was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in Gonzales v. Oregon in 2006.

I think it was when this went to the supreme court that I first became aware, but I was surprised to learn that the state right next to the one I live in had this law on the books for over 10 years and I was unaware. I do agree that we need to legalize drugs, and stop pretending laws are going to do anything but make drug use/sales a bigger, more complicated, more dangerous, thing than it has to be. Next post. Like you I have some very strong and passionate feelings on this one.

 

[Red7227]

and there are a SLEW of other things one can do to destroy their own life! until you harm another person's well-being, it's only your business. why should i be penalized for not wearing the seat belt in a car or not wearing a helmet on a bike? if i want to take that risk, i should be allowed. i could name a dozen other things we punish people for (in one way or another) when they're only risking their own bodies and health, and a dozen things that could more realistically be included in those "big brother" type laws. it's ridiculous. but that's just my :twocents-02cents:

In civilised countries (obviously not the US) all of the costs of an injury incurred due to not wearing a seatbelt of a helmet would be covered by the state, so they say they have the right to demand that you take basic care of yourself so as not to waste their money.

In these same countries, the state is deemed to have a duty of care to protect citizens from their own poor judgement. Individuals invariably have other people dependent on them, emotionally, fiscally and biologically, so their own preferences in wanting to turn them selves into a vegetables, cripples or carcases at the state's expense is likewise resisted by the state.

Legalising heroin would be a good thing. Its invariably the cost of maintaining their habit that destroys their lives, not the use of it. If we could turn all of our smokers and drunks into heroin junkies, the burden on the health system would go down dramatically.

 

[camstory]

and there are a SLEW of other things one can do to destroy their own life! until you harm another person's well-being, it's only your business. why should i be penalized for not wearing the seat belt in a car or not wearing a helmet on a bike? if i want to take that risk, i should be allowed. i could name a dozen other things we punish people for (in one way or another) when they're only risking their own bodies and health, and a dozen things that could more realistically be included in those "big brother" type laws. it's ridiculous. but that's just my :twocents-02cents:

In civilised countries (obviously not the US)all of the costs of an injury incurred due to not wearing a seatbelt of a helmet would be covered by the state, so they say they have the right to demand that you take basic care of yourself so as not to waste their money.

In these same countries, the state is deemed to have a duty of care to protect citizens from their own poor judgement. Individuals invariably have other people dependent on them, emotionally, fiscally and biologically, so their own preferences in wanting to turn them selves into a vegetables, cripples or carcases at the state's expense is likewise resisted by the state.

Legalising heroin would be a good thing. Its invariably the cost of maintaining their habit that destroys their lives, not the use of it. If we could turn all of our smokers and drunks into heroin junkies, the burden on the health system would go down dramatically.

Well, first note that I struck through the first line of your editorial, b/c it is simply a false statement. How ever you feel about the U.S. and how it is governed is your right to express, but when those beliefs manifest in statements that simply are not true, don't expect that no one will take exception to it.

Now let me next address the last part of your post "Legalising heroin" I would say your spot on there.

Now on the seat belt & helmet law bit, I have some differing opinions on that which I sent someone in a PM I will now copy and paste. I should maybe tone it down, but wont b/c after all it is how I feel.

When they made it a law here in Ca I was pissed. I didn't have a big problem with seat belts, - they don't bother me, but fucking let me make that choice, who the fuck are you to tell me I have to be safe? Well I was making this argument to someone who understood my point but then showed me a magazine article they had saved. It was in a medical, or maybe law, journal, but it was very factual, and sited two or three different studies that showed very conclusively the dangers of not being buckled up, and how those dangers were costing millions of $ in added medical expense in places where there were no laws . I still don't think I should be told I have to be safe but I can't argue the right of the state to do what they need in this case to to keep their cost down. (this with only the driver in the car. If you start with passengers it just makes it all the better argument for the law.)

On the other hand the helmet law is all the way wrong IMO (and no there's nothing humble about me when I'm drove) I don't have a bike now but did for many years. I wore my helmet most of the time before the law, and think it is a silly risk not to. (and I am a risk taker) But if you feel like taking a silly risk then gofer it dude. I have all the same beliefs as with seat belts, and no study showing the added cost. In fact if you could get some one to listen, I'm sure you could show the opposite with not wearing a helmet. I bet that there are many who survive with bad injury (high cost) who would have died if they were not wearing a helmet. I know it is a backwards argument, but that is how much I have thought about it. There is NO GOOD argument for helmet laws. the only argument at all is it saves lives. Well it's my fucking life, so go bscene-birdiered: yourself, and worry about your life, you nosy cocksuckers! Is my take on it. :twocents-02cents:

 

[Zoomer]

Why is legalising drugs going to prevent bad drugs? People buy bootleg booze and cigarettes after all, and fuck knows what's in those.
If money can be made, it will. Unless the drugs are so damned cheap... but then someone may buy the drugs, cut it with crap, and sell it even cheaper to make a profit.

Lastly, who is to say overdoses or other such activities (including drugged driving and so on) won't occur more frequently? Some don't buy drugs because they don't have access to it. Others may try but not continue as it's expensive. Make it cheap, what's to stop people becoming drug addicted and dependent everywhere? I find drug users are often the least socially responsible people I've met... they care for themselves only.

p.s riding without a helmet may be your choice... but if you hit me and you die when it could have been prevented by wearing a helmet - I will forever question myself. What if? What if I had driven slower, what if I had driven faster, what if I had left 1 minute, what if that person had worn a helmet.

The problem with people moaning about their rights is that they're selfish. In the UK, if you end up a vegetable because you didn't wear a helmet, WE pick up that life long care tab. Your choice, but we have the repercussions, as do your family, friends and everyone else. How short sighted and selfish is the "only me" argument now? If you could 100% guarantee you'd only kill yourself and not cost the rest of us anything, I wouldn't care. But that's unlikely isn't it. Someone is always going to be picking up the pieces.

You want to ride a motorbike/drive a car? You must prove you are capable of doing so safely and responsibly before you are permitted. Don't like that? Don't drive, or just ride a push bike. Otherwise, wear the correct safety equipment and obey the laws.

After all, when your prone body flies through the windscreen at 50mph and kills someone... you can rest assured their family will be glad you only risked yourself by not wearing a seatbelt.

People... only think of themselves

 

[SweepTheLeg]

While I am always in full support for people to harm themselves in any way they choose and letting natural selection run it's course, it is a bit of a stretch to say all drugs should be legal. One, that person will never just be harming themselves whether they mean to or not.

 

[lordmagellan]

I think it bears noting that legalization and regulation of pretty much any currently illegal narcotic is fairly impossible at this point. So far, most have agreed that they should be legalized and regulated so that the drugs are made chemically safe. How would anyone propose the government go about ensuring that all those illicit drugs are now made safe? How would they market them?

If the government tried to take over and regulate the drug business, they'd fail. The suppliers wouldn't let it happen as it would disrupt their business and therefore cut their profits. "The war" would get much worse, I think.

And I have to agree with Zoomer, that while you may assume all the risks with your own lives as far as safety- those who are left behind have to clean your mess. I'm still uncertain on helmet laws, as I've seen them actually save people would most likely have otherwise died; but I've also seen where a helmet did fuck all for the rider. You can take all the chances you want, just don't go about thinking you're not affecting anyone else. You end up crippled- someone has to wipe your ass. You end up a vegetable- tax payers are most likely going to keep you on life support (to my chagrin). You end up dead- someone has to figure out what to do with your dead ass (people are starving in Africa, I say!).

Everything we do has a consequence, for someone.

 

[JoleneBrody]

Legalising heroin would be a good thing. Its invariably the cost of maintaining their habit that destroys their lives, not the use of it. If we could turn all of our smokers and drunks into heroin junkies, the burden on the health system would go down dramatically.

The fuck????? Have you ever known a heroine Junky? I promise you, it's the drug that destroys their lives not the cost. Government bends over backwards to provide safe housing and recovery for these junkies that want to get clean because they will literally DIE TRYING TO! I've lost too many friends to either overdosing or jonsing for heroine. If your an active user, you can die from ODing, easily... if you are an old user trying to get clean you can die from detoxing. (seizure are the most common)
I see zero reason why it should be legalized and easy to access. Marijuana? Yes! I don't smoke it but everyone should be able too. Marijuana doesn't make you flip out and stab yer neighbor because you think she's an alien. Marijuana doesn't kill you if you accidentally take too much of it. Marijuana doesn't try to kill you if you try to get off it.

If you make something legal you are basically telling the general public it is safe and OK. This will get people who wouldn't normally be the type to get curious. I am on board with most all drugs that are illegal. Now if they would stop wasting government money on Marijuana stings and focus on Meth and the other shit that's turning whole states, like my home state of Oregon into a fucking zombie wasteland that would be swell.
And if you believe for one moment that meth or heroine being legalized would reduce this problem... I'm sorry but I think you are insane.
The cost of most of the killer drugs is pretty fucking low. If it was legalized and taxed it would have to be sold at a higher price to cover the cost of research, development, distributing... and people would still bury Clorox blends in their backyards and sell them for cheaper.

 

[hornygods]

There's a fine line between legalizing and decriminalizing drugs. It's time to recognize the difference.

 

[SoTxBob]

ok. as harsh as it may sound, "Soylent Green".

If folks make the decision to actively exercise their right to use drugs, legal or not, if they burn their brains and become veggies.... Its not up to society to foot the bill for the next xx years. Lets end the "rest of life wiping their useless ass care" and run them thru the juicer. You can debate quality of life and consciousness for eons but IMO, it boils down to the loved ones of said drooler veggie not wanting to let go of the shell thats left of the person they knew. If they can foot the bill until natural death, then its their option. If there is no family to make the option then it shouldn't be on the rest of society to pick up the tab for that persons inability to live life without drugs.
As to helmet laws... been riding many years. Hate helmets but I realized when Gary Busey bit the curb that they did serve a real purpose, despite the inconvenience.

 

[Red7227]

Legalising heroin would be a good thing. Its invariably the cost of maintaining their habit that destroys their lives, not the use of it. If we could turn all of our smokers and drunks into heroin junkies, the burden on the health system would go down dramatically.

The fuck????? Have you ever known a heroine Junky? I promise you, it's the drug that destroys their lives not the cost. Government bends over backwards to provide safe housing and recovery for these junkies that want to get clean because they will literally DIE TRYING TO! I've lost too many friends to either overdosing or jonsing for heroine. If your an active user, you can die from ODing, easily... if you are an old user trying to get clean you can die from detoxing. (seizure are the most common)
I see zero reason why it should be legalized and easy to access. Marijuana? Yes! I don't smoke it but everyone should be able too. Marijuana doesn't make you flip out and stab yer neighbor because you think she's an alien. Marijuana doesn't kill you if you accidentally take too much of it. Marijuana doesn't try to kill you if you try to get off it.

If you make something legal you are basically telling the general public it is safe and OK. This will get people who wouldn't normally be the type to get curious. I am on board with most all drugs that are illegal. Now if they would stop wasting government money on Marijuana stings and focus on Meth and the other shit that's turning whole states, like my home state of Oregon into a fucking zombie wasteland that would be swell.
And if you believe for one moment that meth or heroine being legalized would reduce this problem... I'm sorry but I think you are insane.
The cost of most of the killer drugs is pretty fucking low. If it was legalized and taxed it would have to be sold at a higher price to cover the cost of research, development, distributing... and people would still bury Clorox blends in their backyards and sell them for cheaper.

Nope, no comparison to what its like in Australia. When heroin is cheap and plentiful it has practically no consequences to the wider community. There are the occasional ODs, but it seems our pushers are far more responsible than yours and only curt it with benign substances. People will still destroy their lives with it, but that is their problem, they are already doing that with gambling, alcohol and smoking.

 

[camstory]

OK, On the Helmet laws bit I will only waste a few words b/c this isn't a helmets law thread. Until someone can come up with a better argument than it could save your life, then I hold my position. That argument is exactly the best argument IMO to educate ppl to ware helmets. Things that ppl are educated about, things that are generally perceived in society to be dangerous will not be done by the vast majority of ppl.

Now on making drugs legal, I would not support that with the exception of MJ. But, hornygods made me realize that my understanding of how drugs should be handled is that they should be decriminalized. Un-like HG I think there is a huge difference and not such a fine line.

I am an X junkie,

and after sitting here for a long time I realize I need to map out what I want to say, b/c there is so much that I think is important that needs said. I do want to make two very basic points that I have come to understand. One is just a given, and you can believe me or not, but it is a fact. The other is my strong belief, and would take strong persuasion to get me to believe otherwise.

First what I know to be fact. That most ppl who become habitual drug users are a waste of skin, - they are breathing good air and exhausting carbon dioxide, and we should make their riddance our first step in becoming green. Their carbon foot print is more than my dogs, and they contribute less to the world. Well, Eric, how can you say that, what if they get clean, and become contributing members of society? Well in my experience, (which spans 30 years ><), even those who get clean, are still mostly sub par ppl. They may not be using drugs any more, but they are still thieves, cheats, and scum begs, - morally deficient. Pron to ripping off their employers, and any one else including their kin and neighbors, and you want to talk about being selfish. They have no strong beliefs in one direction or the other, and don't care to. I could go on, but you get my point. I don't think you have to be a drug user or X drug user to possess all these UN-Qualities. And I don't really suggest doing away with all these ppl

What I do suggest, - No, what I tell you plainly, is that the things that make a person become involved in drugs in the first place tend to go along with other traits, or deficiencies, that make for some one who you don't want any involvement with. Sound like a hypocrite? Yes, suppose I do, but what I know as well as what I have already said, is that there are exceptions to everything when it comes to human behavior. In this case I think there are very few. Am I one of those exceptions? Yes I feel I am, and isn't that convenient for me? I suppose it is, but it is mostly fortunate from my pov.

Addiction does not discriminate. It may be genetically influenced, but anybody can become addicted under the wrong set of circumstances.

So I know that the great majority of ppl who are irresponsible enough to get addicted and stay addicted for years and years, are never going to be fine ppl.

I also know that some can be.

I don't know what that says about the topic, but I wanted to say what I felt needed to be said about habitual drug use. It hadn't been said, and I felt there were some who probably did/do feel there are no exceptions.

Now quickly to what I feel strongly about. It is no doubt idealistic and I will allow that as a ppl (here in the U.S. most defiantly), we have not evolved far enough, but things of this nature can never be solved with laws. Laws work for some ppl, but obviously don't for others. If an individual is possessed to do something and there is a way to do it, he/she will. The only way to change that is by influencing those ppl in such a way that they no longer want to do the thing. If you feel locking them up is how you do that, than that is what you think. I think it rarely works, and only serves to perpetuate, and promote, the huge industry built around locking ppl up.

Bottom line I don't believe we have the right to make anything a criminal act, if that act does not directly impact other ppl. A case could be made that things of this nature indirectly impact ppl all the time. It could, and they do, but I don't think you fix that with laws but with changing attitudes, and behavior.

I could make the argument that the person who now has to second guess themselves for the rest of their life, b/c of the dead guy that crashed into their car, might feel even worse if the guy had been wearing a helmet but wasn't dead but a vegetable b/c of it. It is a crazy argument from ether pov imo.

At first I was upset that I had been called selfish, b/c I am anything but, when it comes to most things. I am selfish about my personal liberality though. When something should be my choice, and that choice is taken away, I don't care that the choice I am forced to make is the same one I would have made on my own, it still pissess me off.

Well it's my fucking life, so go bscene-birdiered: yourself, and worry about your life, you nosy cocksuckers! :twocents-02cents: I mean that it the nicest possible way though.

 

[LadyLuna]

This is about HIV, but I think a lot of the arguments are applicable here:

O0JDDyqtSVY

Whether or not it should be legal to make and sell drugs, I don't know.

I definitely think MJ should be legal.

As to the rest, it should be legal to use them. Not sure about the selling or manufacture... but think about this. The reason meth houses kill kids is because they hide in neighborhoods that have kids. If it was legal to make, sell, and use meth, do you think they would still be making it in family homes? Or would it become like factories, where it has it's own area that doesn't affect the kids.

 

[Mirra]

I'm coming to this party a bit late but oh well. I pretty much agree with Jolene's post above and others who said much the same but will add a few thoughts of my own.

The cost of pursuing and punishing those who use or distribute marijuana far outweigh any threat it poses to society. I suspect the snack isle at your grocery store is most endangered by its use. Yet I have seen a friend pass out in the middle of a concert from taking a hit from a joint someone offered her which had apparently be laced with something much more sinister. If decriminalizing marijuana would reduce the likelihood of such occurrences, it would be an added bonus.

Claiming some of these other drugs should not be controlled or completely illegal is complete bullshit though. I've recently been shown what opiate addiction has done to an old grade-school friend and his family. He has been clean for a while now but struggles with it daily I'm sure. The Darwinian side of my cynical nature would be glad to segregate all those who choose those substances from the rest of the population and let them have at it and see how things turn out. Another part of me is glad my friend has a chance to get clean and reconcile with his family who love him despite all the horrid things he did caring about nothing but his next high.

On a related note, I've seen and read of the ways in which many of these drugs alter a person's behavior. Sometimes it's a pleasant mellowing or an abundance of affection but other times it can be recklessness and aggressiveness. As someone who has chosen to live my life without the influence of even alcohol, I loathe the idea of other people's bad decisions having the potential to make life-changing differences in my life. It is a balancing act on how much allowing a person's personal freedoms to infringe on the personal freedoms of those around him can be tolerated. A complete intolerance to such will never lead to a functional society but a complete tolerance to all infringements of your freedoms by others makes all of us completely free and not free at the same time and can only lead to either no freedom what-so-ever or complete chaos.

Is it your right to do what you will with your body? Sure. Is it my right to avoid the consequences of your choices? Definitely. There's some grey but there has to be a limit. That is why we define laws, rules, regulations, and other controls. Not all are right but not all are wrong either.

 

[Red7227]

This is about HIV, but I think a lot of the arguments are applicable here:

O0JDDyqtSVY

Whether or not it should be legal to make and sell drugs, I don't know.

I definitely think MJ should be legal.

As to the rest, it should be legal to use them. Not sure about the selling or manufacture... but think about this. The reason meth houses kill kids is because they hide in neighborhoods that have kids. If it was legal to make, sell, and use meth, do you think they would still be making it in family homes? Or would it become like factories, where it has it's own area that doesn't affect the kids.

We have had any number of doctors being shown to be heroin addicts, but because they are getting by prescription and moderating their use, the only real side affect was them being caught doing something illegal. I could also see some of the party drugs around being made legal. Extacy has so far proven to be reasonably benign. The drugs with ugly side effects and high toxicology would stay illegal.

Drugs, like smoking and drinking, are due as much to peer pressure as any urge to give them a try. Making them legal and available from a chemist in standardised dosages would go a long way towards removing their negative impact. Cocaine and heroin used to be legal, I would be curious to see the reasoning behind them being made illegal back when that happened.

 

[HoldItNow]

Nope, no comparison to what its like in Australia. When heroin is cheap and plentiful it has practically no consequences to the wider community. There are the occasional ODs, but it seems our pushers are far more responsible than yours and only curt it with benign substances. People will still destroy their lives with it, but that is their problem, they are already doing that with gambling, alcohol and smoking.

Strange that you characterize a death rate of just over one per day in Australia as 'the occasional ODs'. And thinking that drug addiction only affects the user is short-sighted and not accurate. We do not live in bubbles.

 

[CassieRamone]

red,

i hope that for all of our sakes, you follow your dreams and start smoking heroin soon.
then, because youre so keen on this super safe, clean drug, you start shooting dope a few months down the line - first into your arms, then legs, then feet, till youre willing to push that needle into any area of your body that will take it instead of breaking right in front of your eyes. and then, since youre so into it, i hope for your sake, your veins start collapsing and eventually you can no longer get out of bed - because you havent eaten in weeks and your stomach wont keep anything full down, . and since i hope you have access to cheap (and - thankfully! legal!) dope, i hope that the immense pain and depression and anxiety that comes from NEEDING something more than you ever thought you could ever need anything in your entire life is not turned into a "hard" or "negative" part of your quickly-going-down-the-drain life, because of the money (because itll be so cheap and thats the only bad thing about heroin!). and then i cannot wait for you to get the joy of waking up in the hospital, because you somehow managed to push thru the puking, and cold sweats, and shakes, and other things boys do but girls dont (girls dont poo, is what i meant here) and migraines and hopelessness and stayed clean for more than 48 hours, only to give up and dose yourself the same way you always have - but oops! you dealt with 2 days of withdrawal - so now your tolerance is a litttttle less fucked but UH OH! youre much MORE fucked! overdose, shucks, and i thought that "rarely happend!" .... and then this continues, but because youre not stressed about the money, you are very very happy. until the last time you get to go thru this vicious circle called heroin addiction and end up dead, instead of waking up in the hospital one morning. but :thumbleft: for not drinkin or smoking cigarettes babe! you really showed em!

pssss - i know it feels like your this big bad ass, but the way exude arrogance, ignorance, and failness is quite unappealing. if only we could legalize a vaccine that could cure stupidity. maybe you should work on that one first, bb. might have a better argument for that being legalized - especially if youre the one pitching it.


smh.

 

[Rose]

Just my two cents, I think K2, spice and this bath salts stuff should be made completely illegal. There's a store near my parents that USED to be a legal smoke shop. They sold tobacco, pipes, hookah, shisha pipes and your standard incense. Last year they started stocking K2 and spice and calling it tobacco.

I, being the ill-informed individual that I am, asked the saleslady what was their best selling tobacco because I wanted to treat myself and share a pipe with my father and BJ since they both occasionally partake in tobacco from a pipe (like the kind in old movies). I was excited, brought it home and shared some with BJ before my dad joined us. Luckily my dad wasn't able to smoke because BJ and I both started getting extremely sick and almost ended up needing emergency care. Turns out the lady sold us K2 and chemicals but was just calling it tobacco.

That stuff should be illegal, plan and simple. I'm not educated enough on the subject to have an opinion about legalizing other drugs, but I do know what I experienced after smoking K2 and it's not something anyone should have to go through.

 

[Red7227]

pssss - i know it feels like your this big bad ass, but the way exude arrogance, ignorance, and failness is quite unappealing. if only we could legalize a vaccine that could cure stupidity. maybe you should work on that one first, bb. might have a better argument for that being legalized - especially if youre the one pitching it.
smh.

Whatever. Never used and never will, but I know a lot of ex-junkies, the ones that stopped are still alive, the ones that didn't are dead. In the 80s when the only heroin was crap is was probably as bad as it is in the US now. These days there is nothing to it. Its so cheap that people can just buy it with their paycheck. Now its an addiction no worse than smoking and alcoholism.

Nope, no comparison to what its like in Australia. When heroin is cheap and plentiful it has practically no consequences to the wider community. There are the occasional ODs, but it seems our pushers are far more responsible than yours and only curt it with benign substances. People will still destroy their lives with it, but that is their problem, they are already doing that with gambling, alcohol and smoking.

Strange that you characterize a death rate of just over one per day in Australia as 'the occasional ODs'. And thinking that drug addiction only affects the user is short-sighted and not accurate. We do not live in bubbles.

And 400 deaths a year according to you is a problem? Compare that to the 10,000 that die from smoking or the couple thousand who die from drinking. I think anybody with an addiction is a moron. I've never used drugs or smoked, and have been drunk exactly twice in my life. All addictions destroy lives, drawing the line between smoking and drugs, saying one is ok and the other isn't is stupid. Legalise what has no side effects and leave the rest as illegal.

 

[Poker_Babe]

Why is legalising drugs going to prevent bad drugs? People buy bootleg booze and cigarettes after all, and fuck knows what's in those.
If money can be made, it will. Unless the drugs are so damned cheap... but then someone may buy the drugs, cut it with crap, and sell it even cheaper to make a profit.

Lastly, who is to say overdoses or other such activities (including drugged driving and so on) won't occur more frequently? Some don't buy drugs because they don't have access to it. Others may try but not continue as it's expensive. Make it cheap, what's to stop people becoming drug addicted and dependent everywhere? I find drug users are often the least socially responsible people I've met... they care for themselves only.

p.s riding without a helmet may be your choice... but if you hit me and you die when it could have been prevented by wearing a helmet - I will forever question myself. What if? What if I had driven slower, what if I had driven faster, what if I had left 1 minute, what if that person had worn a helmet.

The problem with people moaning about their rights is that they're selfish. In the UK, if you end up a vegetable because you didn't wear a helmet, WE pick up that life long care tab. Your choice, but we have the repercussions, as do your family, friends and everyone else. How short sighted and selfish is the "only me" argument now? If you could 100% guarantee you'd only kill yourself and not cost the rest of us anything, I wouldn't care. But that's unlikely isn't it. Someone is always going to be picking up the pieces.

You want to ride a motorbike/drive a car? You must prove you are capable of doing so safely and responsibly before you are permitted. Don't like that? Don't drive, or just ride a push bike. Otherwise, wear the correct safety equipment and obey the laws.

After all, when your prone body flies through the windscreen at 50mph and kills someone... you can rest assured their family will be glad you only risked yourself by not wearing a seatbelt.

People... only think of themselves

If a person decides to use a drug and becomes addicted to it, making a law forbidding it isn't and has not stopped anyone.
I don't know of anyone who buys bootleg cigarettes, bootleg alcohol I've only seen made by ppl who do it as a hobby, but never seen anyone make a living off of selling it. Prohibition didn't work. It's prohibition that gave us Al Capone. Harm reduction strategies are a much better way to go about it then prohibition. We all know the current "War on Drugs" isn't working as it is.

 

[JoleneBrody]

pssss - i know it feels like your this big bad ass, but the way exude arrogance, ignorance, and failness is quite unappealing. if only we could legalize a vaccine that could cure stupidity. maybe you should work on that one first, bb. might have a better argument for that being legalized - especially if youre the one pitching it.
smh.

Whatever. Never used and never will, but I know a lot of ex-junkies, the ones that stopped are still alive, the ones that didn't are dead. In the 80s when the only heroin was crap is was probably as bad as it is in the US now. These days there is nothing to it. Its so cheap that people can just buy it with their paycheck. Now its an addiction no worse than smoking and alcoholism.

Nope, no comparison to what its like in Australia. When heroin is cheap and plentiful it has practically no consequences to the wider community. There are the occasional ODs, but it seems our pushers are far more responsible than yours and only curt it with benign substances. People will still destroy their lives with it, but that is their problem, they are already doing that with gambling, alcohol and smoking.

Strange that you characterize a death rate of just over one per day in Australia as 'the occasional ODs'. And thinking that drug addiction only affects the user is short-sighted and not accurate. We do not live in bubbles.

And 400 deaths a year according to you is a problem? Compare that to the 10,000 that die from smoking or the couple thousand who die from drinking. I think anybody with an addiction is a moron. I've never used drugs or smoked, and have been drunk exactly twice in my life. All addictions destroy lives, drawing the line between smoking and drugs, saying one is ok and the other isn't is stupid. Legalise what has no side effects and leave the rest as illegal.

Red, I like you but right now you are so fucking delusional and wrong it's making me sick. Seriously. you have no idea what you are talking about. I know that's a hard pill to swallow and not something easy to admit to but you really are making yourself look like an ignorant idiot.
I'm not trying to attack you but you really have no idea what your saying. If you think Heroine has no "side effects" you have no understanding of how it works and have never seen it.
It's one thing to think it should be legal, it's another thing to think you know anything about what it's like to be addicted to or what kind of damage it does.
I drink on occasion, not often. No matter how many beers I have I never feel like I NEED it the next day. Obviously some people do but it takes a lot more personal neglect to become an alcoholic. You have to drink like an addict to become one. Not the case with heroine.
I'm also a smoker. I love smoking. It gives me no high but I just love smoking. I'm educated and aware that if I smoke I am at risk of developing health issues over time, OVER TIME! Same as eating heavy amounts of processed food and sodiums. It's a risk I'm willing to take. I often go days without smoking because I just don't want one. I don't feel like I'm dying and my body is trying to implode from the inside when I don't have one. Not the case with Heroine!

Go spend a week in a methadone clinic and try to say the things you've said. You might have nightmares for a few years after that but I promise you will learn a lot about how fragile human beings really are.

 

[camstory]

2 Hours, come on PB, I have the time, but I wonder if any one else will. But go back and watch the first 4 min or first 6 min and you'll find some relevant stuff there.

I'll repeat what HG first brought up that I think most who are in support of legalization, are actual not suggesting drugs be sold at the corner market, but are suggesting their decriminalization? (maybe I am wrong, but the distinction should be made)

And I have to say something b/c it is bugging the hell out of me. It is a nicely framed argument, and I have read it more than once. It is moving b/c it is forceful, and it rails against legalization, not decriminalization, so it may in that have some truth to it.

But God Dam it JJ I have seen a few kill themselves too. When I would hear, my gut reaction was always the same, "I HATE FUCKING DOPE"!!! Pound my fist into the wall bloody, HATE IT! If only it HAD NEVER BEEN, then they would still be alive. Why? Just Why? In those moments you hate every thing about Chiva and wish it would GO AWAY FOR EVER!

The fact is, it exists. Nothing is ever going to make it go away for ever, or go away for any amount of time. For sure not keeping it illegal.

And I am willing to believe that Oregon, is more progressive and forward minded than Ca. I know half a dozen ppl who have moved their self and their family there, just for that reason, (and no sales tax is a bonus.) In Ca. they don't bend over backwards to find housing and get you into a program, - unless you are talking about the housing the prisons provide, and you do have to work a program there, but it has nothing to do with Addiction.

I can tell you first hand that two of the ppl I knew that OD'ed, OD'ed b/c the heroin they got was purer than what they expected. If your smart you always test a little first. Junkies aren't smart, and a lot of the time you don't want to waste any to test it, cuz you have enough for two maybe three issues, or maybe only enough for one, and if you test it first, that one, or the last one isn't going to be enough to ring your bell. The straight fact is, in my experience, most of the time, you have just enough to stay well, or get well, and you get some that isn't cut to shit, its a good thing.

All I'm saying is that keeping it unregulated is a major contributing factor to OD's. If where your aiming to get is just this side of OD, it doesn't take any big mistake to kill your self, and if you get some different, that's better then the last batch...

I'm out I can't do this thread any more.

 

[JoleneBrody]

I'm out I can't do this thread any more.

I'm coming with you! Let's get e-coffee.

 

[Bocefish]

Everyone's addiction levels are different, just like tolerances. To say that anyone with an addiction is a moron, is beyond ignorant.

I'd be fine with weed and some other class B & C drugs decriminalized, but heroine, cocaine & meth are too addictive & dangerous IMO, not to mention everyone reacts to them differently.

:twocents-02cents:

 

[Just_mark__]

I take various drugs as and when the mood takes me. Not often but sometimes.
The problem isn't drugs, it's idiots. Idiots let it rule their lives. Make idiots illegal.