Drugs, Alcohol and Cam Girls

[Joeternal]

I'll be more clear about it. My motivation in posting this topic was concern for cam girls who may have substance abuse problems. The primary motivation of most of the responses seems to be individuals defending their own image. If it doesn't apply to you, great. Congratulations. You pointing that out was not really the point of the thread.

 

[SatanJonez]

There is a clear pattern here, at least with my own posts, of posting about a particular subject, and having cam girls jump all over some side comment, impute a bunch of motives and/or thoughts to me, and generally freak out about things I probably didn't even say.

More importantly, what seems clear is that if a cam girl does have a problem, other cam girls don't want it mentioned because it might make them look bad. That's not helpful to anybody.

This translated to "I came out to have a good time and honestly I'm feeling so attacked right now."

What I mean is that these are not things I said, but rather things that were pre-existing in the minds of the posters, who use me as an opportunity to vent because I failed in some small way to be "politically correct" and "stick with the script". To me certain things are objectively true, regardless of whatever value judgments or "stereotypes" people may attach to them.

A stereotype (noun, a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing.) is something you haven't been promoting then. And you know, for sure fact, that the majority of sex workers are the type of people you have decided to talk about in this thread? But you aren't pushing that stereotype at all, right? You aren't over simplifying a line of work you know little to nothing about on a personal level? You aren't trying to put certain behaviors to a certain group of people, we're just using you as a means to vent. Because you aren't PC. Because you won't stick to a script (WHO HANDED OUT THE SCRIPTS AND WHY DIDN'T I GET ONE?!) It's just that what YOU think as an individual is flat out "objectively true" right?

Really?

I don't think you are getting at all what anyone else, nicely or not is trying to say in this discussion.

 

[JickyJuly]

I think part of the problem is your approach. If you'd said "let's talk about substance use and camming!" it may have become an interesting conversation. Instead, you kind of made declarations. People don't like to be boxed in, and given that there are tens of thousands of sex workers leading all different lifestyles in different places, your box is too small. Even here on the forum, it's clear that some of us have little to nothing in common outside of camming. No one wants to be defined in such a one dimensional way, and it makes for shit discussion.

 

[IndicaDesires]

I'll be more clear about it. My motivation in posting this topic was concern for cam girls who may have substance abuse problems. The primary motivation of most of the responses seems to be individuals defending their own image. If it doesn't apply to you, great. Congratulations. You pointing that out was not really the point of the thread.

You didn't phrase it in a way that was like "hey. I've seen a few girls with substance abuse problems. Do you think that has anything to do with camming or why they cam? "

You said/implied you believe it's more rampant in the sex industry than others, and that sex industry workers are more likely to abuse substances. And then bringing up being from Divorced /unwed parents as if that had any effect on our decision to cam.

We're not just defending ourselves. We're trying to show you such assumptions are absurd.

 

[Joeternal]

Honestly, I think maybe you should stop trying to assume things about people with addictions period. Not just camgirls/sex workers. Yes, your post came off as rather offensive it sounding as if you were saying we all have one mindset. Everyone has a vice. SOME cammers drink, some do drugs, a lot don't. We come from all sorts of backgrounds.

I'm not just making these thing up, though. They're based on my own experience. I'm not on cam sites every day, but I have visited them on and off for about 5 years now. Of the cam girls I've spent enough time with for them to start talking about their family situation, I can only think of one or two that had parents who were currently married. That would put the average at something like 1 out of 20. It's anecdotal, it's a small sample, but when the numbers are that high, I feel pretty confident stating that a woman is more likely to end up camming if her parents are divorced or never married. It's very close to a fact as far I'm concerned. Not based on preconceptions, but based on experience.

When it comes to substance abuse, it's something I've seen periodically, but hadn't given much thought to until recently. There are cam girls, through their actions on cam and what they say about what they do in their spare time, who are clearly abusing drugs and alcohol in a major way. I find that to be a cause for concern, but maybe I'm the only one. And it seems quite a bit more prevalent than it is among the non-cam women I know.

 

[Joeternal]

I'll be more clear about it. My motivation in posting this topic was concern for cam girls who may have substance abuse problems. The primary motivation of most of the responses seems to be individuals defending their own image. If it doesn't apply to you, great. Congratulations. You pointing that out was not really the point of the thread.

You didn't phrase it in a way that was like "hey. I've seen a few girls with substance abuse problems. Do you think that has anything to do with camming or why they cam? "

You said/implied you believe it's more rampant in the sex industry than others, and that sex industry workers are more likely to abuse substances. And then bringing up being from Divorced /unwed parents as if that had any effect on our decision to cam.

We're not just defending ourselves. We're trying to show you such assumptions are absurd.

They're not assumptions. They're observations based on experience with cam girls. Science of any kind is based on observation and extrapolation, since no one can ever document every situation. I haven't kept a log of this stuff, so that's the weakness. But I strongly suspect if a legitimate survey was done, what I've observed would turn out to be true.

 

[IndicaDesires]

Honestly, I think maybe you should stop trying to assume things about people with addictions period. Not just camgirls/sex workers. Yes, your post came off as rather offensive it sounding as if you were saying we all have one mindset. Everyone has a vice. SOME cammers drink, some do drugs, a lot don't. We come from all sorts of backgrounds.

I'm not just making these thing up, though. They're based on my own experience. I'm not on cam sites every day, but I have visited them on and off for about 5 years now. Of the cam girls I've spent enough time with for them to start talking about their family situation, I can only think of one or two that had parents who were currently married. That would put the average at something like 1 out of 20. It's anecdotal, it's a small sample, but when the numbers are that high, I feel pretty confident stating that a woman is more likely to end up camming if her parents are divorced or never married. It's very close to a fact as far I'm concerned. Not based on preconceptions, but based on experience.

When it comes to substance abuse, it's something I've seen periodically, but hadn't given much thought to until recently. There are cam girls, through their actions on cam and what they say about what they do in their spare time, who are clearly abusing drugs and alcohol in a major way. I find that to be a cause for concern, but maybe I'm the only one.

I would see it as a cause for concern if I actually saw it happening. As it is, I've only ever seen one cam girl get wasted on cam to the point I thought it might be a problem. But I've watched her since and she seems fine. Maybe you have a type.

 

[IndicaDesires]

I'll be more clear about it. My motivation in posting this topic was concern for cam girls who may have substance abuse problems. The primary motivation of most of the responses seems to be individuals defending their own image. If it doesn't apply to you, great. Congratulations. You pointing that out was not really the point of the thread.

You didn't phrase it in a way that was like "hey. I've seen a few girls with substance abuse problems. Do you think that has anything to do with camming or why they cam? "

You said/implied you believe it's more rampant in the sex industry than others, and that sex industry workers are more likely to abuse substances. And then bringing up being from Divorced /unwed parents as if that had any effect on our decision to cam.

We're not just defending ourselves. We're trying to show you such assumptions are absurd.

They're not assumptions. They're observations based on experience with cam girls. Science of any kind is based on observation and extrapolation, since no one can ever document every situation. I haven't kept a log of this stuff, so that's the weakness. But I strongly suspect if a legitimate survey was done, what I've observed would turn out to be true.

Your observations are kind of bs and pointless if you're not also actively comparing us with individuals from other professions, too. They certainly don't prove that it's more prevalent in our industry. The fact is, you notice it because your focus is on us, and we are drinking "on the job" because we can get away with it. In most professions, drinking on the job would be a huge problem. In ours? It's a way to keep things light and fun in the room. Not a sign that we have an alcohol problem

 

[JickyJuly]

If you're looking for ways to help people who are struggling with addiction or whose lives are off track because of family issues, contact and donate to your local halfway house or battered women's shelter. Camsites are not the proper place for intervention like this. If you think a model you visit uses her money to feed an addiction, stop giving her money.

 

[SatanJonez]

Looking at your post history finally (fuck me for not doing it sooner), you're a fantastic troll. Congrats on that though. Few are good enough to get this far in TWO whole threads that they actually start. I'm out because it's obvious engaging you on this is just stroking that epeen a little bit more. I am not into that unless a pay check is involved

Good luck, fella!

 

[DeezNA]

Seriously.... what is this thread even about?

Don't bring up a serious fucking issue like substance abuse or personal endangerment without offering a productive solution, it's insulting.

If you give a shit about helping people that I am assuming you "care" about... help them. Don't point fingers. Don't look for some logical trend or pattern to explain why they are where you THINK they are. That's a fucking cop out to actually being a decent support system. Offer your help. If they don't want it, move on.

Addiction is a personal issue. It's not something that magically happens when you start a profession. You don't mystically become addicted to gambling when you become a construction worker.

---------------------
Addiction and self-abuse are serious issues, not something to be taken lightly and treated like a science/sociology project. Resources are out there. If you are in need or know those who are in need of help, I can provide resources for immediate 24/7 support.

 

[LioraVox]

Seriously.... what is this thread even about?

Don't bring up a serious fucking issue like substance abuse or personal endangerment without offering a productive solution, it's insulting.

If you give a shit about helping people that I am assuming you "care" about... help them. Don't point fingers. Don't look for some logical trend or pattern to explain why they are where you THINK they are. That's a fucking cop out to actually being a decent support system. Offer your help. If they don't want it, move on.

Addiction is a personal issue. It's not something that magically happens when you start a profession. You don't mystically become addicted to gambling when you become a construction worker.

---------------------
Addiction and self-abuse are serious issues, not something to be taken lightly and treated like a science/sociology project. Resources are out there. If you are in need or know those who are in need of help, I can provide resources for immediate 24/7 support.

I'm pretty confident that I love you. Just sayin. Carry on. :handgestures-salute:

 

[eclipse76]

There is a clear pattern here, at least with my own posts, of posting about a particular subject, and having cam girls jump all over some side comment, impute a bunch of motives and/or thoughts to me, and generally freak out about things I probably didn't even say.

More importantly, what seems clear is that if a cam girl does have a problem, other cam girls don't want it mentioned because it might make them look bad. That's unfortunate.

I don't know what was your intent, but you kind of give in to the "rescue fantasy" trope, i.e. men who have a "real" concern about sex workers situation/health in order to get an ego boost and feel like a manly man.
See this article for a very stereotypical example: http://www.cliterati.co.uk/2014/11/traffic-in-nonsense/

Also it reminds me an article by a Dutch activist that I read last month:

Rescue stories read like erotica, but they sensationalise sex workers’ lives at their expense and commodify the experiences of actual victims. They are obsessed with how many penises in filthy surroundings and rape by their stepfather and forced abortions and getting peed on and condomless blowjobs. While sex workers and sex work activists want to talk about human rights, international law, respecting the agency of other adults and stopping violence, rescue fetishists get all flushed as they emphasise that thousands of women get raped with objects and are forced to drink buckets of sperm and they get tattoos so everyone can see they are a whore. It’s so inappropriate. They ignore and silence actual sex workers so they can enjoy their rescue-fetish unhindered.

 

[NyxieDay]

*sings* Coooorrellation does not equal Cauuuusaaaationnnn
*whispers* (assuming there is even a correlation)

*tap dance*

Carry on.

 

[Joeternal]

There is a clear pattern here, at least with my own posts, of posting about a particular subject, and having cam girls jump all over some side comment, impute a bunch of motives and/or thoughts to me, and generally freak out about things I probably didn't even say.

More importantly, what seems clear is that if a cam girl does have a problem, other cam girls don't want it mentioned because it might make them look bad. That's unfortunate.

I don't know what was your intent, but you kind of give in to the "rescue fantasy" trope, i.e. men who have a "real" concern about sex workers situation/health in order to get an ego boost and feel like a manly man.
See this article for a very stereotypical example: http://www.cliterati.co.uk/2014/11/traffic-in-nonsense/

Also it reminds me an article by a Dutch activist that I read last month:

Rescue stories read like erotica, but they sensationalise sex workers’ lives at their expense and commodify the experiences of actual victims. They are obsessed with how many penises in filthy surroundings and rape by their stepfather and forced abortions and getting peed on and condomless blowjobs. While sex workers and sex work activists want to talk about human rights, international law, respecting the agency of other adults and stopping violence, rescue fetishists get all flushed as they emphasise that thousands of women get raped with objects and are forced to drink buckets of sperm and they get tattoos so everyone can see they are a whore. It’s so inappropriate. They ignore and silence actual sex workers so they can enjoy their rescue-fetish unhindered.

My response is that you should re-read what you quoted from me. You're just doing more of the same, creating ideas in your own mind and applying them to me. You should also consider that you and others (like the other quote you posted) are putting a lot of effort into creating elaborate rationalizations that allow you to ignore problems facing "sex workers". It's all sunshine and rainbows. Got it. And I apologize for showing concern for other human beings. Is that enough?

Or should I stir the pot even more by repeating the (true) fact that I've had several cam girls suggest we take things offline, and I'm the one who's resisted. Because I have reservations about cam girls. Which is kind of the opposite of what you seem to want my mindset to be.

 

[Joeternal]

Looking at your post history finally (fuck me for not doing it sooner), you're a fantastic troll. Congrats on that though. Few are good enough to get this far in TWO whole threads that they actually start. I'm out because it's obvious engaging you on this is just stroking that epeen a little bit more. I am not into that unless a pay check is involved

Good luck, fella!

I'm not trolling. Maybe I've been too honest. The conclusion I'm starting to form is that individual cam girls can be ok by themselves, but collectively as a group, you have a bad influence on each other in a variety of ways.

 

[WickedTouch]

I'm not trolling. Maybe I've been too honest. The conclusion I'm starting to form is that individual cam girls can be ok by themselves, but collectively as a group, you have a bad influence on each other in a variety of ways.

:lol:

 

[Alexandra Cole]

I'll be more clear about it. My motivation in posting this topic was concern for cam girls who may have substance abuse problems. The primary motivation of most of the responses seems to be individuals defending their own image. If it doesn't apply to you, great. Congratulations. You pointing that out was not really the point of the thread.

Because the point of your thread was to confirm was your beliefs, right?

You declare that this stereotype is a fact based on your observation. You're inundated with examples that suggest the opposite is true. You reject those examples as defensive. Clearly you only acknowledge the cases that confirm your beliefs and, as Midori mentioned, you rely on the logical fallacy that correlation implies causation.

Logical fallacies and selective vision don't pass for observation, Joe. If you want to be as honest as you believe yourself to be, ask yourself why it's so important to you that the stereotype is true.

 

[CharlotteLace]

My response is that you should re-read what you quoted from me. You're just doing more of the same, creating ideas in your own mind and applying them to me. You should also consider that you and others (like the other quote you posted) are putting a lot of effort into creating elaborate rationalizations that allow you to ignore problems facing "sex workers". It's all sunshine and rainbows. Got it. And I apologize for showing concern for other human beings. Is that enough?

Or should I stir the pot even more by repeating the (true) fact that I've had several cam girls suggest we take things offline, and I'm the one who's resisted. Because I have reservations about cam girls. Which is kind of the opposite of what you seem to want my mindset to be.

You have this lovely little cycle going, Joe. You assume all cam models are fucked up, broken individuals. So you seek out girls who are having bad days, girls who are unstable, girls who are drinking that night, and you point to them and say "see? you guys have issues." You're ignoring the vast majority of models that are responsible, ethical, decent human beings. When we point out the fact that you're making glaring statistical errors, you shrug it off and say we're protecting each other by using anecdotal evidence? Yet you cling to your own, unscientific observations as law and say, "well I bet if a study was done, it'd confirm my stance."

Confirmation. Bias. You're a shitty, shitty statistician.

 

[TacoBelle]

Ok, after reading this entire thread, I've got some "anecdotal evidence" that factory workers, food-industry workers, retail workers, and persons in the medical field HAVE DRUG AND ALCOHOL PROBLEMS. And they come from divorced homes. How do I know, you ask? Why, thanks for giving me a chance to show my research.


I recently went through my personal friends list and counted how many were from divorced/non-married parents. Well, only 6 (YES, SIX) people out of 213 had parents that were around for their childhood. That means that almost 97% of all the people I am friends with grew up in a non-conventional home. Out of those, the majority work in the aforementioned careers. And the majority of alcohol/drug users? Between 17-25 years old. They are in the "party" phase of their life. But to blatantly say, "Well, because I know 27 people who work in a factory, and 24 of those drink/do drugs frequently, I know that 89% of all factory workers have a drinking/drug problem" would be nonsense. Although it applies to the factory workers *I* know personally, I'm sure each and every one of you know factory workers who do NOT have a problem. My father (who works in a factory) could probably go through his phone and count how many coworkers drink/do drugs excessively. Because they are older, his percentage would probably be WAY lower than mine. I just associate with people who enjoy partying. People who typically haven't had children or bought their own house.


Do you see why "anecdotal evidence" is purely only true to the person looking for it? Stop trying to play the victim in this thread, Joe. If you think a model has a problem, stop tipping her. Do not enable her to continue on this downward-spiral. Send her a comforting message with links on how to get help if she wants it. You keep implying that we're trying to cover up or hide the fact that most camgirls have a problem. That's not it at all. Yes, some camgirls probably do have problems. We do not (typically) spend as much time watching other models as a member would. So we can only give evidence supported by our PERSONAL experience or about other models we know. We're not trying to hide the truth or make camgirls out to be a bunch of angels who never do anything wrong. Camgirls are vastly different from one another and to compare them all would be to compare all factory workers against themselves. It's a generalization that only happens to fit because you're looking for it.

 

[Alexandra Cole]

My anecdotal evidence says that Wall Street is run entirely on cocaine. When will someone save the white-collar sweatshop workers from their overly aggressive seduction strategies and their perforated septums?

 

[CharlotteLace]

My anecdotal evidence says that Wall Street is run entirely on cocaine.

I watched Wolf of Wall Street. Can confirm this.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

^Hilarious new gif

 

[LailaBaise]

:thumbleft:

 

[Sevrin]

 

[bakersman]

I'm out because it's obvious engaging you on this is just stroking that epeen a little bit more.

Q: "Why are you giggling over there?"
A: "TITTYSPRINKLES USED THE WORD EPEEN"

:lol:

 

[JessieWolfe]

 

[StrayObject]

I recently went through my personal friends list and counted how many were from divorced/non-married parents. Well, only 6 (YES, SIX) people out of 213 had parents that were around for their childhood

213 friends? wow I don't even know 213 people. That's awesome.

And Deez. A man in a woman's world. His insights are awesome also.

 

[Nordling]

concern troll

A person who posts on a blog thread, in the guise of "concern," to disrupt dialogue or undermine morale by pointing out that posters and/or the site may be getting themselves in trouble, usually with an authority or power. They point out problems that don't really exist. The intent is to derail, stifle, control, the dialogue. It is viewed as insincere and condescending.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=concern+troll

 

[DeezNA]

Can I just make a formal request? Since we have a large group of quality people here, maybe you guys will understand where I'm coming from here. Can we stop calling asshats "trolls"?

Here's why...

People take it as a compliment, something "fun" to do, a badge of honor. "oh, let's go 'troll' that guy", "I totally 'trolled' ya", "lmao u such a troll bruh lel". (I don't know how they talk, I'm just guessing here) The line of what "trolling" is and what isn't is so arguable that putting more labels on it just complicates things.

Yes, I'm derailing the thread and my thoughts are scattered, sorry. I just woke up and I'm grumpy, bear with me.

I propose we simplify things.

If someone walks into a thread/room/bar and starts picking fights, they could be called a "troll", but they're really just a fucking asshole. If someone gives you a big hug and slaps a "kick me" sign on your back, that could still be called "trolling" with slightly less malicious and more jovial, humorous intent... but it's still kinda being an asshole. If someone protests a soldier's funeral (looking at you, WBC...), that could be seen as "trolling"... in a way... but it's really just being a fucking asshole.

Commonality? They're all assholes.

So what is the deciding factor between whether these guys are assholes or not? How do we determine if their "trolling" is weapons-grade or not? It's really simple: intent.

If our OP here has genuine concern about extremely serious issues (not just in the cam world but in the world as a whole) and is being misinterpreted or is miscommunicating, that does not make him a "troll" (or, given my proposal, an asshole), it just makes him a bad communicator. That's not something to punish, it's an honest mistake and something that the community can help with... but it's up to him to come up to us and apologize for the misunderstanding and get things on track for that chain of events to even get started.

If our OP decided to push an extremely insensitive issue with the intent of watching the chaos ensue (which is a pretty sociopathic trait, btw, I would get that looked into...), he's only going to get satisfaction from that in one of two ways: attention and interaction surrounding their "creation". We, as a group, control the thread. We can focus this topic on productivity at any time, since it really is a very important topic that people may require resources for and could potentially save lives. Or we can keep the focus on him... which feeds the cycle... <sing-song voice> it's the ciiiiiiiiircle of assssholeeees</sing-song voice>.

In my eyes, this thread went from "I'm concerned that cam-models have a high risk of drug and alcohol abuse" (legitimate concern) to "my statistics are right and yours are wrong" really fucking quick. That's not about the people suffering from the actual problem, that's a battle of fucking egos. (I promise I'm not pointing fingers, I'm just stating concerns.) Statistics don't mean fucking shit. Claiming camming has more substance abuse doesn't solve any problem except for "I'm right and you're wrong so meh." Saying "I see a lot of what seems to be drug/alcohol abuse, what can I do to help?" kinda has a little different tone to it, does it not? Food for thought.

So, in the end, it's up to the OP whether they want to identify themselves as an asshole or not... and if not, put shame aside, apologize and address the real issues... but that's only their choice to make. In the meantime, I just ask that we not throw labels and stuff around, it can function as an unintentional pat-on-the-back.

:twocents-02cents:


**I need to stop posting before coffee-time...**



P.S. Nordling, I love you, but if you cite urban-dictionary as a source again I'm gonna give you SO many disapproving glares it'll make your face implode. *mwah*