Don't We Have Things Backwards, or is it just me?

[camstory]

I have been wanting to write a post for a while now, but felt I would not be able to articulate exactly what I wanted to say. I don't think I can yet, but am going to do my best. I'll start by saying I think that some time in the future, maybe 100 or 200, or 500 years from now what I am going to suggest will be common sense.

Does it make any sense that full frontal nudity is restricted from broadcast TV while the most graphic depictions of murder are allowed even in Saturday morning cartoons?

I am not certain about how I feel as to how this imbalance be corrected, but only that it is a crazy imbalance. That everyone seems to feel that the naked human body is somehow more dangerous to our minds than is seeing a decapitated head mounted on the back of a tortoise.

Though they would both make national news, I think what would get more gasps of, "My god that is crazy", and would be more likely to be remembered a year after, "Two caught making love on the Whitehouse lawn", rather than, "Man shot dead on Whitehouse lawn".

In our very popular crime series like CSI there is not an episode that there is not some graphic description of how a body was murdered, or mutilated and then murdered, but when it comes to any question of sexual content it is most often explained by ether a positive or negative finding of seaman.

"Pop a cap in your ass" was a popular tag line some years back, but "Do you up your ass" never had a chance.

Personally the fact that "Sex and Violence" get used in the same breath when ppl talk about what is wholesome for our children, I find a little outrageous. The fact that we have the two so completely backwards is just plan wrong, IMhO.

What do you think?

 

[Shaun__]

I always assumed it was because some vocal religious people find nudity and sex for the sake of pleasure to be more offensive than murder for the sake of hatred.

 

[AmberCutie]

I am not certain about how I feel as to how this imbalance be corrected, but only that it is a crazy imbalance. That everyone seems to feel that the naked human body is somehow more dangerous to our minds than is seeing a decapitated head mounted on the back of a tortoise.

:text-goodpost:

 

[Rose]

Great post. Personally, I'd rather see a naked human than a murdered, brutalized human. Once the spawn arrives, I'm sure I'll feel the same way. It's a shame that just nudity is seen as inherently sexual and evil but murder and violence aren't held to the same standard.

 

[mynameisbob84]

I've never understood how in modern society, something as pedestrian as sex can still be seen as taboo. It's absurd.
I'm constantly groaning at the tabloid papers over here that will routinely have "so and so in new sex scandal" or "some tit in hotel sex shame" plastered on the front page. I never quite get what's supposed to be scandalous or shameful about two consenting adults fucking. And then of course, you turn the page and there's a pair of tits in your face (over here, on page 3, we have half naked models posing for the reader's entertainment). The hypocrisy is astounding (although the tits are routinely lovely :-D).
I also hate the notion that because somebody once had sex and there's a document of it floating around somewhere (be it a sex tape or a video on the internet or a photo shoot in a magazine or whatever), that person is somehow unfit to do something later in life, like teach. Even if they're qualified up the wazoo and have a fantastic rapport with kids - they once got naked in front of a camera so they can't possibly do this or that.
We should just stop demonising sex. Maybe the President could come out on morning TV tomorrow and start an interview by commenting on the fantastic sex he had the night before. That would be a nice start, ya know? (I am being facetious with that last bit, but the point still stands that sex shouldn't be something to hide or fear )

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I think part of it is that a lot of people like nakedness to be special, like a treat, if we always saw people being naked it might lose some of its appeal. I think really it already has. People have different standards of what women especially should look like. Whilst murder is a horrific shocking thing that they want to open peoples eyes up to, it's not an attractive thing so I guess they hope no one would enjoy it.

Also murder etc, although we remember, we do try and block a lot of it from our minds and not dwell on it. With any kind of sexual acts/nudity, they're interesting to us naturally, so we'll remember them.

Good post though, and it is true, it does seem warped. But a lot of people do like to keep nakedness very special and personal to them, and not see nakedness from someone they don't want to be with. It's not that people would rather see someone murdered, or think it's better, they just feel that some things the world should be informed of and some things should remain private.

 

[BlueViolet]

I feel like sheltering children from sex causes more harm than good. There was an article I read in one of those "ask so-and-so" columns about a religious father who caught his teenage sons watching their neighbor's teenage daughter mow the grass in her bikini top from their bedroom window and the religious father asked his neighbor to make his daughter cover up more so his sons wouldn't see.

If feel like by sheltering our children from the human body, we are vastly over sexualizing everything. Breasts are designed to feed babies but so many people are offended by seeing an infant eat which is absurd to me for someone to believe their uncomfortableness is more important than a baby's basic needs.

The human body is natural and it is nothing to be ashamed of. When I have children, I'd much rather them watch something that shows nudity than violence. I personally don't even think there is anything wrong with them seeing, hearing, or listening to someone talking about the act of romantic sex however controversial that might seem to some people because I just don't think sex is a big, shameful, unnatural deal and I'd rather them hear/see about a healthy relationship first than some hardcore for-pay porn. Not that I have anything against porn obviously but I'd rather them have a healthy idea of sex before engaging themselves in the world of porn.

I have a friend from Europe whose mother was like that with her and my friend had high self esteem, graduated Valedictorian at our high school and went off to college for a degree in engineering where she is today. She never got into trouble and always practiced safe sex when she was in a long-term, healthy relationship. But I have plenty of friends who were extremely sheltered from sex and ended up pregnant even in middle school. So I'd pick nudity over violence any day.

 

[Jupiter551]

What did I miss, there was a head mounted on a tortoise?!

 

[Rose]

What did I miss, there was a head mounted on a tortoise?!

It was in an episode of Breaking Bad. It was pretty disturbing.

 

[Lacey Black]

I talk about this subject with friends all the time. I think it is crazy we live in a society with so much violence that is acceptable but sex is so frowned upon. You can live your entire life without murdering someone or witnessing any real graphic violence but sex and nudity are a natural part of human life that most people experience. Just look at movies, tv shows or video games and you will see so much violence rated PG-13 or T but if you show a nude scene/sex scene with minimal or no nudity it is rated R or M.

 

[Bocefish]

As the saying goes... if it bleeds, it leads the news. Same thing with TV & sex... sex sells & if they could get away with showing more nudity on basic TV, they would. It boils down to $$ and the laws/lawyers.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

What did I miss, there was a head mounted on a tortoise?!

It was in an episode of Breaking Bad. It was pretty disturbing.

True but part of the reason Breaking Bad is such a great show is scenes like that.

 

[Nordling]

I think part of it is that a lot of people like nakedness to be special, like a treat, if we always saw people being naked it might lose some of its appeal. I think really it already has. People have different standards of what women especially should look like. Whilst murder is a horrific shocking thing that they want to open peoples eyes up to, it's not an attractive thing so I guess they hope no one would enjoy it.

Also murder etc, although we remember, we do try and block a lot of it from our minds and not dwell on it. With any kind of sexual acts/nudity, they're interesting to us naturally, so we'll remember them.

Good post though, and it is true, it does seem warped. But a lot of people do like to keep nakedness very special and personal to them, and not see nakedness from someone they don't want to be with. It's not that people would rather see someone murdered, or think it's better, they just feel that some things the world should be informed of and some things should remain private.

I understand the "special" argument that many people hold, and maybe there's truth to it. Myself, I think what we'd lose if nudity were more common would be the fear of it by those same "special" people. I also believe that nature is beautiful, whether it's a grove of trees, a placid pond or a naked human, and that people who live among beauty may indeed take if for granted, but they may also be less violent because beauty is like a hit of weed; it calms the soul.

 

[16_bit]

I think a lot of it stems from history.

We don't actually know how it use to be but it would seem that throughout history, sex and nudity has always been seen as taboo. Who knows how or when it started. Since then, through either culture and/or religion we have been tauught that sex and nudity is bad. Attitudes have been changing over time, we now live in a more open world towards sex but i would say there is still the majority against it.

As for violence, it seems to have been the other way. We have throughout history been exposed to it and used it as sport, in which the victor has been celebrated. And when you think that people gathered in medievil times to watch someone be hanged, or 'wicthes' to be burned at the stake, you can see we had an odd curiosity and maybe even attraction to murder. People are still allowed to watch executions now but it's not such a community gathering.

Maybe all the exposure and 'sport' over time has lessened our objection to it so when it became part of television, we accepted it easier than we have sex making it easier to become more graphic over time.

 

[Jupiter551]

I've noticed there are more boobies in old 80s films than there are today. Watch any old comedy or thriller or anything from the 80s and at some point it's fairly likely you'll get tits of some description - not anymore

 

[LuckySmiles]

yeah violence way worse... but uhmmm... how do I say this...
let's keep sex a little taboo? pretty please? cause if everyone's walkin around naked... maybe a couple less would come see us... :whistle:

I kinda meant that ironically... I'm a total nutbar conspiracy type person.. and sometimes I think it's perpetuated in such a way purposely, because of the billions that are made off of it. No one would buy the magazines, no one would get the boob jobs, no one would pay for hair extensions, no one would buy makeup, no one would look at porn, no one would shop shop shop spend spend spend, if we had a society where everyone was much more openly sexual and with far less reservations about everything. Everything is based on consumerism these days, and if there was nothing risque about it... no one would want it. If people didn't have so many insecurities about weather they're hot enough to get laid we wouldnt buy half the clothing or products people do. If everyone was just free to walk around naked and bang whoever they wanted all day everyday ...it'd be cool and all sure and the eutopian ideal...but it would be a very very different world than what we have. Aaand it's past my bedtime.

 

[SoTxBob]

I completely agree with the topsyturvy absurdity of the whole thing. I do however want to make 1 very basic distinction. Many posts seem to lump sex with nudity. IMO, that's a bit much of a net to cast. While the act of sex is no big deal, (especially to folks in the sexworker field) I think that nudity is completely separate for consumption purposes. Simply said, I don't mind at all seeing a nice looking naked body in public, but I'd not want to see a pair of folks humpin' at the bus stop.

Aaaand just for fodder.... video games...No studies to cite or links to post. By observation, I have witnessed real live kids over the last 10 years or so become extremely desensitized to all sort of gore and killing. Common discussions frequently involve talk of exploding body parts and all manner of dismemberment and how cool it is. When kids are desensitized with this recreation and then the basic every day TV deluge of "heads on tortoise shells" it's no wonder the lines are becoming so foggy. :twocents-02cents:

 

[Jupiter551]

I completely agree with the topsyturvy absurdity of the whole thing. I do however want to make 1 very basic distinction. Many posts seem to lump sex with nudity. IMO, that's a bit much of a net to cast. While the act of sex is no big deal, (especially to folks in the sexworker field) I think that nudity is completely separate for consumption purposes. Simply said, I don't mind at all seeing a nice looking naked body in public, but I'd not want to see a pair of folks humpin' at the bus stop.

Aaaand just for fodder.... video games...No studies to cite or links to post. By observation, I have witnessed real live kids over the last 10 years or so become extremely desensitized to all sort of gore and killing. Common discussions frequently involve talk of exploding body parts and all manner of dismemberment and how cool it is. When kids are desensitized with this recreation and then the basic every day TV deluge of "heads on tortoise shells" it's no wonder the lines are becoming so foggy. :twocents-02cents:

I dunno, there's been a couple generations, mine included that grew up with video games and gory movies. Everything from Marilyn Manson to Call of Duty gets blamed when something like the Columbine shooting happens - how come no one's blaming war, or the news

 

[LadyLuna]

Columbine happened because a kid was teased so much, and so inundated with religion, that he believed all the people in the school should die for being so sinful.

Sex has always been taboo, I'll buy that. But the only people who seem to have linked nudity with sex are Christians, Muslims, and Jews, along with societies that grew up around those cultures (some of the founding fathers might have been atheists, but they grew up in Christian families), or adopted those religions. Probably because of the Adam and Eve story.

Greeks and Romans were very open about both sex and nudity, and while Asian cultures mostly frown on public talk about sex, it's not as demonized as in America, and their children used to run around naked until puberty (I think the westernization of Asia has put a stop to that, but I might be wrong).

Christians have this very old habit of learning the wrong lessons from the teachings of Jesus, and twisting his words to fit their own meanings.

 

[AthenaBlaze]

Personally the fact that "Sex and Violence" get used in the same breath when ppl talk about what is wholesome for our children, I find a little outrageous. The fact that we have the two so completely backwards is just plan wrong, IMhO.

What do you think?

I think this is a great post....and I agree 100% Thank u for bringing up, yet another topic I've never really thought about as far as murder vs nudity and how society openly talks about horrific events. Day to day, talking about murder to someone would be a lot more "acceptable" rather than telling someone you love to get naked and "feel good". I think more jaws would drop when u mention a topic on nudity & masturbation vs the everyday murders we hear about on TV and in the media. Which is straight up, ass backwards.

 

[TashaDutch]

i cannot say how much i appreciate this post! thank you!

beeing dutch i have never experienced the prude way the us handles nakedness...
i have litterly never seen a dutch movie without a little ass and boob... cock in movies in a pretty common thing over here also..
so yeah i will never understand how people can even consider thinking its something they need to protect anyone from..
their 11 year olds are seeing super unrealistic porn on the computer.. cause of the prude way of handeling sex and nakedness
people have sex.. with their vagina.. and with their dicks.. it seems really silly to start education about sex when nude people and sex is approached like that..

i personally think violance and will be really damaging to a child..
its insane that parents rather call the police cause the girl next door chooses to be naked in her own house.. just in case their kid might see it..
but turn the cheek when the same girl is beeing punched in the face right in her front lawn...

let's keep sex a little taboo? pretty please? cause if everyone's walkin around naked... maybe a couple less would come see us... :whistle:

from another point of view... homemade porn/amateur porn is booming here in holland!
i don't know alot of people that actually appreciate the clean, perfect kinda porn over here..
sooo i think that camming with real girls.. would be considered a relieve from all the scripted fake porn thats so popular
i honestly feel that our way of camming would be approached with applause if people would feel they can more openly talk about sex in general
i get what you're saying though... but there's such a huuuuge grey area between claiming sex is evil.. and fucking around like maniacs without shame

its like luna said... culture.. romans would openly have gay sex.. they were proud of it! they believed it would give them strenght to fight (this seems far fetched, but think about it)
where did all the shit happen that turned that history into.. well today?
i get that it was not the whole world.. but damn the roman empire was pretty large..

there is a difference between constantly showing naked people.. and just showing it where it should be...
i can talk about this all day.. so i'll just shut up.. and leave it to this...

 

[Jupiter551]

its like luna said... culture.. romans would openly have gay sex.. they were proud of it! they believed it would give them strenght to fight (this seems far fetched, but think about it)
where did all the shit happen that turned that history into.. well today?
i get that it was not the whole world.. but damn the roman empire was pretty large..

Well I agree with your point, to an extent. The 'Romans and Greeks were totally cool with homosexuality' argument has some truth to it, but is often overstated. The man initiating such or being the 'aggressor' (usually the older or richer man) wasn't looked down on - but the one who was penetrated was seen as being womanly - a pejorative term in the very patriarchal Roman society.

An adult male's desire to be penetrated was considered a sickness (morbus); the desire to penetrate a handsome youth was thought normal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Rome#Male-male_sexuality
I mean if that isn't stupid and hypocritical I don't know what is heh. I guess my point is that all societies have their own prejudices and viewpoints.

Even the concept of 'gay' and 'straight' are simply cultural viewpoints - if it weren't for discrimination toward one or the other there would be no need to categorise sexuality at all.

 

[LadyLuna]

I was not talking about their openness with gay sex. I said they were open with sex in general, and nudity in general. It was not taboo to talk about it, and they did not try to hide it from their kids. They were openly naked in many areas of life, most famously at the Olympics and other sporting events.

 

[LuckySmiles]

I would say though that I think people are more violent historically then is shown to us... we see fantasy violence all day in movies and tv and all... what about the public hangings that used to be a part of everyday life?.. it's easy to distance ourself from those "horribly uneducated people who lived a whole 2 or 300 years ago" It's not that long ago.. and they're maybe dark sides of human nature that we'd like to pretend don't exist today and call progress...
I almost singed up for the army before took my tests and all... and you'd swear it was summer camp lol

maybe people don't kill eachother as often as they have sex.. and maybe it's not as serial killer type murder that is shown on television.. but it happens. lots. in all cultures.

Realistic sex and realistic violence is much more unseen. They don't show real dead bodies in the US in the news about anything ever. Doesn't everyone die? Or did I not get the memo that that has been changed...

 

[Red7227]

Realistic sex and realistic violence is much more unseen. They don't show real dead bodies in the US in the news about anything ever. Doesn't everyone die? Or did I not get the memo that that has been changed...

Of course. the question is always how much the unrealistic sex and violence alters people's perception of that is normal. I saw a lot of cartoons when I was young, and the endless traumas of wile e coyote hasn't scared me that I can notice. I do wonder when violence in moves crosses the same barrier. "True lies" was just fucking funny, whereas the episode of "Cracker" where the killer explains to the woman that he needs to kill her because Cracker has started doing something different when investigating the murders.

I cannot remember what the something was, but the vision of this woman, crying and with her mascara running while she looks down into the bath full of water the guy is about to drown her in, has stuck with me for about 2 decades.

 

[Bocefish]

Black Ops 2 just came out with a mature only rating. It made over $400 MILLION in sales over a 24 hour period. Fantasy violence and sex sells. That being said, it's ultimately up to the parent(s) how they raise their child. If they want violent electronics and salacious TV to raise their kids, that's what happens.

I've seen some of the kids interviewed that have endured the 2 week+ power outage from Sandy saying it's one of the best things that's happened to them because they have no access to electronic games and they're feeling healthier and all around happier without the games, closer to family, etc.

 

[TashaDutch]

I was not talking about their openness with gay sex. I said they were open with sex in general, and nudity in general. It was not taboo to talk about it, and they did not try to hide it from their kids. They were openly naked in many areas of life, most famously at the Olympics and other sporting events.

isn't that a part of it? i wasn't quoting you or anything...

 

[LadyLuna]

Check out what Bocefish said right before my post, and you'll see why I felt the need to clarify ^_^

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I think a lot of it stems from history.

We don't actually know how it use to be but it would seem that throughout history, sex and nudity has always been seen as taboo. Who knows how or when it started. Since then, through either culture and/or religion we have been tauught that sex and nudity is bad. Attitudes have been changing over time, we now live in a more open world towards sex but i would say there is still the majority against it.

As for violence, it seems to have been the other way. We have throughout history been exposed to it and used it as sport, in which the victor has been celebrated. And when you think that people gathered in medievil times to watch someone be hanged, or 'wicthes' to be burned at the stake, you can see we had an odd curiosity and maybe even attraction to murder. People are still allowed to watch executions now but it's not such a community gathering.

Maybe all the exposure and 'sport' over time has lessened our objection to it so when it became part of television, we accepted it easier than we have sex making it easier to become more graphic over time.

I agree historically sex and public nudity are considered taboo. If you look at the hundreds of civilization that have sprung up over the last several millennium, you can count on the finger and toes the number where nudity wasn't a crime/taboo. Egypt, Greece, a few Polynesia society, some Native American tribes, and some primitive tribes in New Guinea and South America. The bath practices of Roman and Japanese were accepting of public nudityhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_nudity but I'd argue that is a function of hygiene more than anything else. Even among South Pacific societies where the weather permits people to not wear clothes, it was the exception not the rule. These society were pretty isolated from each other and completely isolated from the world major religions, until the 18th century and still the cultural norms were you wore clothes that covered the genital areas and sex is done in private.

While I personally, am happy to see society become less uptight about nudity. I think is is worth noting that fastest growing religion in the world Islam, has very strict rules about immodest dress and at least part of the rise in the number of Muslims is a backlash against western media being filled with images of naked and half naked woman (e.g. Brittany, Shakira , and yes camgirls etc.). So while I think that a more relaxed view of nudity is a good thing and probably a sign of an evolving culture, you do have to ask yourself were all of the previous societies really wrong to make it a nudity and public sex taboo? :?

Violence has always been a source of entertainment. From the primitive hunter gather society, where boys become men by killing something, to gladiator fights,wrestling, to ritual beatings of many society, Aztec human sacrifice, Jousting tournaments, public execution, 18th century duels, boxing and now mixed martial arts we like to watch people getting hurt. Virtually the only team sport, which doesn't involve violence is baseball and even that has some contact. (Although in Soccer/Football much of the violence is in the stands )

Now personally, I am skeptical that we see a lot more violence now than we did 20 or 30 years ago. The one exception is video games just because computer graphics have improved so much. There have been tons of studies on the effect violence in the media on behavior, and very very little data shows that it has much of an impact. I'm not a fan of Micheal Moore, but in his documentary "Bowling for Columbine", he makes the tongue-in-cheek argument that since both of the killers went bowling a lot maybe that bowling triggered the mass murders.. :lol:

If we look at the big picture; overall crime rates of both violent and property crimes are much lower now than they were 20 or 30 years ago. This is especially true for the US but even in Western Europe crime rates have generally fallen. We are much safer from violent act now than we were in 1980 or 1880, or 1080. So whatever the media is doing it seems to be producing a very desirable result. Crime among young people has dropped especially dramatically. I have seen a couple of studies that suggest young people especially guys get some of their aggression out playing video games. Personally, I think the explanation is much simpler; if you are engage watching a action movie, or killing aliens or Nazi is a game, you simply have less free time to be out on the streets being bored and getting in trouble. When kids are bored they do stupid things. When I was in high school, we had network TV and few cable stations, movies were still pretty expensive and you had to go to a theater to see them. Given our rather limited choices for entertainment, egging somebodies house and throw toilet paper in trees seemed fun and we were the good kids. All in all I would have much preferred to play Call of Duty if it existed than tossing eggs.

I know I have been hearing the argument that all this violence we see causes bad things all my life, but I just have not seen any proof.

What Camstory says is perfectly logical

Personally the fact that "Sex and Violence" get used in the same breath when ppl talk about what is wholesome for our children, I find a little outrageous. The fact that we have the two so completely backwards is just plan wrong, IMhO.

But as counter intuitive as it seems, it is possible that no society doesn't have it backwards.

 

[VeronicaChaos]

I like how it is now. Sex is taboo, which is good for business, and violence is popular, which is great because not only do I love it, but violence censorship in America is ALMOST gone (the US censored A Serbian Film because they can't tell the difference between a real baby and an obviously fake babydoll....oi.) For me, personally, it's the perfect combination.