Do you believe that rape culture is real?

[yummybrownfox]

I am sorry if my perspective offends you, princess, but the internet is not your safe space.

When a family member rapes you it's usually called "molestation" to separate it from rape because they are two different problems.

Theft and rape are similar in many ways, and similar to breaking and entering because they are all crimes committed against another person's property: be it their car, their home or their bodies.

And last, but not least, I dont know what part of America suburbia you grew up in, but theft is not committed out of desperation. Millions of people are desperate and only a fraction of them steal. It is done out of poor morals and envy for someone else's shit.

A lot of you Trump supporters sure do love to use that phrase "safe space," don't ya? Isn't that shit getting fucking old? As usual, you were being all cunty to Charlie in your post, which was totally uncalled for. You seem like an intelligent woman, however I find many of your posts on this forum to be appalling, and I can't - for the life of me - figure out why folks on here co-sign some of the shit that comes outta your mouth. She called you a prick because you were out of line and showed no shred of sympathy after she mentioned her rape. You and whoever else can facepalm/chill pill me all you want.

And on that note...time for bed.

 

[Mila_]

A lot of you Trump supporters sure do love to use that phrase "safe space," don't ya? Isn't that shit getting fucking old? As usual, you were being all cunty to Charlie in your post, which was totally uncalled for. You seem like an intelligent woman, however I find many of your posts on this forum to be appalling, and I can't - for the life of me - figure out why folks on here co-sign some of the shit that comes outta your mouth. She called you a prick because you were out of line and showed no shred of sympathy after she mentioned her rape. You and whoever else can facepalm/chill pill me all you want.

And on that note...time for bed.

I am just quoting this in case we have another instance of post editing after the fact.

Edit: I dont know what thread you are reading but she called me a prick before I had any chance to reply to her post.

 

[Val Vega]

Isnt this blaming the victim? It takes a lot of courage to come to place where my views are in the minority and voice them anyway. I try my best to be respectful to everyone regardless of their opinion. But a small group of members dont know how to debate with people who dont think like them. You in particular have given me scores of facepalms and poops instead of engaging me or ignoring me and are aggressive towards me when I have done nothing to you.

CharlieCharma just set a new low for the forum with her direct insults though. And I am tired.

No, it does not. If being a loud pain in the ass on the Internet were brave, I'd have the fucking Medal of Honor. It's easy going on the Internet and spouting off opinions left and right. Everyone does it all the time. That's the Internet!

And the reason you get those facepalms and poops from me along with my loud dissent wherever you go is that your opinions are often harmful and/or objectionable.

 

[SMuser69]

I am curious about this. I guess this all depends on each person but I always thought of molesting (I actually kind of hate that word for some reason and usually use sexual assault instead) as like everything but full penetration rape (fingering, sexual groping, ect) and definitely not limited to family. I've (and most people I conversate with it seems do, too) always called rape just rape and then everything else usually seems to usually fall in the molestation/sexual assault category when talking about things. I am curious now if I am in the minority on thinking this way. I know rape technically still is sexual assault but I feel people in my experiences will just say rape.

Molesting and rape both have been modified by society to cover more than the physical now. They are both used so broadly now when someone does speak of either of them the experience can be so far reaching. I agree sexual assault is much easier to define in conversation since it still tends to be used to describe physical actions. I think talking about molesting and rape involves more questions about state of mind because both words now include an emotional component. I'm not a mind reader so I don't like or want to speak like I know someone's mindset and I don't like when people "decide" they know my mind or speak as if they do.

I think there are vastly more cases of molesting than rape but rape is used to cover both situations. I think hearing, "They raped me with their eyes" or "I was emotionally raped" have twisted the word and is a prominent reason discussions like this have to happen in the first place. There were little girls in the mall screaming "rape" then running away giggling. The word is simply being used too loosely for how serious it's handled.

There are states that have removed the words rape, sodomy and molesting from the law books and replaced them with "sexual assault" because the state is only interested in physical violence not people's emotional states.

 

[JickyJuly]

Both issues are related... feminism drove wages down by increasing the supply of labor. Most families need 2 working parents because of it.

Initially, women trickling into the workforce would have taken jobs that were seen as acceptable for women. So, wouldn't they just have been creating more competition among women? Plus, having both parents out of the home would create more business elsewhere. More dry cleaning. A 2nd car. Buying packaged foods instead of cooking. Buying clothing that you might have made yourself. Daycare. Cleaning service. Fast food.

My point is that he will always assume he will be friend zoned, that he won't even entertain the idea of any kind of sexual relationship. I did not say he wouldn't bother with a woman, only that he wouldn't chase a sexual relationship. This type of man usually has women friends, but he can't take any friendship further due to his fear of rejection.

We all fear rejection a little bit. We all have tons of reasons to skip dating. Some people will never have a healthy sexual relationship after a rape or assault. To say some women fearing men or some women liking jerks creates animosity or robs decent men of happy intimate pairings is exactly rape culture. People are entitled to fear who they fear. People are entitled to like who they like (even the jerks! hehe.). People are not entitled to sexual relationships with anyone but themselves.

 

[Lexi Emerson]

We all fear rejection a little bit. We all have tons of reasons to skip dating. Some people will never have a healthy sexual relationship after a rape or assault. To say some women fearing men or some women liking jerks creates animosity or robs decent men of happy intimate pairings is exactly rape culture. People are entitled to fear who they fear. People are entitled to like who they like (even the jerks! hehe.). People are not entitled to sexual relationships with anyone but themselves.

Quoting this because I want everyone to read it again. And then really take it in. This is so so soooo spot on. AMEN JICKY!

 

[justjoinedtopost]

This thread is a 13 page headf*ck.

 

[SMuser69]

This thread is a 13 page headf*ck.

Well you can skip usually every 2 or 3 pages of it since they are pointless fights between people. I wanted to make a comment about the friendzone stuff but I guess that was a day or two ago. We could of had six separate topics already.

 

[CharlieCharma]

Well you can skip usually every 2 or 3 pages of it since they are pointless fights between people. I wanted to make a comment about the friendzone stuff but I guess that was a day or two ago. We could of had six separate topics already.

I mean, I commented on the friend zone thing a couple days late I think. Just quote something and go with it. A change in topic never hurt anybody.

 

[LioraVox]

Well you can skip usually every 2 or 3 pages of it since they are pointless fights between people. I wanted to make a comment about the friendzone stuff but I guess that was a day or two ago. We could of had six separate topics already.

Fuck it, same thread = still relevant. Don't want to get into the fights, just tip toe right over them

 

[heybarkeep]

I try my best to be respectful to everyone regardless of their opinion. But a small group of members dont know how to debate with people who dont think like them.

The cringe crew, cult of cringe, button mashing mafia, I have more but I'll stop, reflect very poorly on the camgirl community and make all of us here look bad. Would be awesome to be able to offer a different opinion without being able to predict which exact posters will rush in to mash buttons.

 

[Lexi Emerson]

Are we really back to talking about buttons...

 

[justjoinedtopost]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_culture#Origins_and_usage

I had no idea this "rape culture" idea has been being kicked around for so long (or that it had a wikipedia entry). In the "Criticism" section, this bit especially rings true...

"In a 2013 interview, professor Camille Paglia[121] described concerns about rape culture as "ridiculous" and "neurotic", an artifact of bourgeois liberal ideologies that people are essentially good and that all social problems can be remedied with education. This rape culture concept is much to the detriment of young college-educated women, Paglia argues, because they are ill-prepared to anticipate or cope with the small minority of deeply evil people in the world who simply don't care about following laws or obeying social convention."

 

[Ambers Troll]

To say some women fearing men or some women liking jerks creates animosity or robs decent men of happy intimate pairings is exactly rape culture.

This was my point on rape culture, the fear creates a cascade. We cause it in part due to this culture of fear. It isn't just a victim/abuser thing but in expressing fear as a response to nothing at all that creates problems well beyond victim or abuser to those who are neither. Decent men and women are missing out on intimate pairings due to this.

 

[SMuser69]

This was my point on rape culture, the fear creates a cascade. We cause it in part due to this culture of fear. It isn't just a victim/abuser thing but in expressing fear as a response to nothing at all that creates problems well beyond victim or abuser to those who are neither. Decent men and women are missing out on intimate pairings due to this.

I think people that live in fear aren't good candidates for any long term relationship in the first place. I don't think anyone is missing out on them.

Having something emotional happen to you is always terrible but not having the ability to move past it constructively is a core tool in any long term relationship. You HAVE to accept when you take someone as your SO eventually there will come a time you'll be upset with them or they will be upset with you. You will not always agree and sometimes disagree. That's normal in a relationship. A person is your best friend because you CAN fight with them and you know you'll both come back stronger after it.

A decent man or woman would be hurt by these victims.

 

[heybarkeep]

Are we really back to talking about buttons...

Was mostly trying to sympathize with her frustration.

 

[Ambers Troll]

I think people that live in fear aren't good candidates for any long term relationship in the first place. I don't think anyone is missing out on them.

Having something emotional happen to you is always terrible but not having the ability to move past it constructively is a core tool in any long term relationship. You HAVE to accept when you take someone as your SO eventually there will come a time you'll be upset with them or they will be upset with you. You will not always agree and sometimes disagree. That's normal in a relationship. A person is your best friend because you CAN fight with them and you know you'll both come back stronger after it.

A decent man or woman would be hurt by these victims.

If you read back I was referring to the impact on a good person of many others being scared of them for no reason at all. What this does to that good person who has never done anything wrong. If you go with the rape culture hypothesis, then this is a possible explanation of how it may develop. Personally it is a bit of a stretch beyond certain groups, but an interesting discussion anyway.
You are right that people in fear are not good candidates for relationships. So if you have been a victim don't mess up good people by assuming that good people are perpetrators. Your fear is infectious.

For those who have been victims and are partnered up this applies too. Share the info on what happened, but be careful on sharing too much of the emotion, you can hurt a partner with that.

 

[JickyJuly]

So if you have been a victim don't mess up good people by assuming that good people are perpetrators. Your fear is infectious.

I actually think you are a kind, well meaning person, but you're killing me here man.

 

[Behemoth]

I actually think you are a kind, well meaning person, but you're killing me here man.

Alternately, they should understand that being with someone who has been victimized requires a person who knows how to not take things personally and understand why someone may have issues they still struggle with.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Alternately, they should understand that being with someone who has been victimized requires a person who knows how to not take things personally and understand why someone may have issues they still struggle with.

Welcome back.

@Kitsune, I'll never take a chill pill about rape you insensitive prick,

I've never heard a woman call another woman a "prick" before.

Plenty of men calling other men "bitch", but never the reverse. Interesting.

I don't really care, and I'm not interested in fanning the flames of a heated moment (that has hopefully passed); just wondering what to make of it (if anything) considering the topic.

 

[SMuser69]

Alternately, they should understand that being with someone who has been victimized requires a person who knows how to not take things personally and understand why someone may have issues they still struggle with.

I disagree. Someone that's been victimized has some responsibility to move on or cope before trying to enter any new relationship. An "I'm a victim so treat me like this" attitude doesn't work when your building NEW relationships with people. You can't lean on people in your life like they are trained psychiatrist. Asking them to "change" for you is wrong and can create a victim out of them if it goes on too long.

 

[EspiKvlt]

You can't lean on people in your life like they are trained psychiatrist.

I don't know why you get into relationships, but having someone to lean on and vent about things is kinda part of the point.

 

[SMuser69]

I don't know why you get into relationships, but having someone to lean on and vent about things is kinda part of the point.

Sure but there are limits to everything. There's a limit to borrowing money before someone should say, "get a job". There's limits to depression or anxiety before someone should say, "you need professional help". Relationships are about bridge building and allow someone else to complete you, but you can only build a bridge SO large and emotions can easily hide when something symbiotic becomes parasitic.

 

[Behemoth]

I disagree. Someone that's been victimized has some responsibility to move on or cope before trying to enter any new relationship. An "I'm a victim so treat me like this" attitude doesn't work when your building NEW relationships with people. You can't lean on people in your life like they are trained psychiatrist. Asking them to "change" for you is wrong and can create a victim out of them if it goes on too long.

That's not the point. The world, and people, aren't so binary. Like, yeah, abuse can be cyclical, but humans need social interaction. And folks don't just 'move on,' things stay with you forever, because thats also how humans work. Everything you experience shapes you even if its not the same for everyone, obviously.

It's a two way street, and requires a partnership. Which is what a relationship is. Understanding is key, and patience, and so on in any relationship, and various factors require more. If YOU aren't able to understand and be with a person who has been traumatized, that is on you. And no one is forcing you. Their behavior is on them, and the trauma shouldn't be an excuse for anything, it's an explanation.

If you can't, don't be in that relationship, but you're being contradictary. You say asking them to change is bad, but you're literally saying all victims need to change to suit you and everyone else.

 

[SMuser69]

If you can't, don't be in that relationship, but you're being contradictary. You say asking them to change is bad, but you're literally saying all victims need to change to suit you and everyone else.

Being a victim shouldn't be permanent. Enabling someone to be a permanent victim is dangerous for everyone around them because a victim is more likely to be victimized again and again. Asking someone to heal isn't "changing" them because being hurt SHOULD be temporary to begin with.

 

[EspiKvlt]

Healing =/= not being hurt by horrible things that happened to me at the hands of people I trusted.

 

[Behemoth]

Being a victim shouldn't be permanent. Enabling someone to be a permanent victim is dangerous for everyone around them because a victim is more likely to be victimized again and again. Asking someone to heal isn't "changing" them because being hurt SHOULD be temporary to begin with.

Being a victim is permenant. Time is linear for us mortals, or seems so at least. You never cease to be a victim when you are victimized, what happens is you change over time as it and other stimuli build up.

Like, you seem to think that mental trauma just fades. But not even physical injuries do. Major injuries change you forever. Even if you regain function, its always there. I got shin splints in basic. I still get pain there when I run for long periods. And injuries can cause issues later down the line.

You seem to think the only options are 'heal and now you're back to "normal."' or 'perpetual weakness.' Like, there is no state where you suddenly are no longer capable of being victimized. And again, things have lasting effects. If I was forced to run from a hungry beast, my old injury that has 'healed' may get me killed. Then again, so may an olympic athlete get killed.

And it is precisely the sort of person who understands that victims ARE in danger and are mature enough to understand and work with that are precisely the sort of people that can help a victim avoid BEING victimized and help them cope.

Cruches don't hold you back. They help you move.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Being a victim shouldn't be permanent. Enabling someone to be a permanent victim is dangerous for everyone around them because a victim is more likely to be victimized again and again.

I hear what you are saying.

Not to mention, situations where "I am a victim!" starts getting turned into justification for making YOU a victim. Sort of like...emotional blackmail.

http://time.com/30545/its-time-to-end-rape-culture-hysteria/

 

[SMuser69]

Being a victim is permenant. Time is linear for us mortals, or seems so at least. You never cease to be a victim when you are victimized, what happens is you change over time as it and other stimuli build up.

Like, you seem to think that mental trauma just fades. But not even physical injuries do. Major injuries change you forever. Even if you regain function, its always there. I got shin splints in basic. I still get pain there when I run for long periods. And injuries can cause issues later down the line.

You seem to think the only options are 'heal and now you're back to "normal."' or 'perpetual weakness.' Like, there is no state where you suddenly are no longer capable of being victimized. And again, things have lasting effects. If I was forced to run from a hungry beast, my old injury that has 'healed' may get me killed. Then again, so may an olympic athlete get killed.

And it is precisely the sort of person who understands that victims ARE in danger and are mature enough to understand and work with that are precisely the sort of people that can help a victim avoid BEING victimized and help them cope.

Cruches don't hold you back. They help you move.

I'm pretty sure I said heal and not cure. Some things don't have cures. Yes you may need to walk on crutches but you don't leave your leg bleeding out on the floor forever while you're using them.

Scars are permanent but wounds are supposed to heal. You will eventually die from an open wound. A victim is a WOUNDED individual. They need treatment to begin healing. Normal people can only give out bandaids. It takes a professional to build you a cast or stitches to really close the wound up. Just using bandaids from the people around you all the time not only stops a large wound from beginning to heal but eventually people around you run out of bandaids.

 

[Behemoth]

I'm pretty sure I said heal and not cure. Some things don't have cures. Yes you may need to walk on crutches but you don't leave your leg bleeding out on the floor forever while you're using them.

Scars are permanent but wounds are supposed to heal. You will eventually die from an open wound. A victim is a WOUNDED individual. They need treatment to begin healing. Normal people can only give out bandaids. It takes a professional to build you a cast or stitches to really close the wound up. Just using bandaids from the people around you all the time not only stops a large wound from beginning to heal but eventually people around you run out of bandaids.

Ok, but you're not saying much here. You seem to be acting like they should wait to be in a relationship until it 'heals,' but thats like saying I should wait to run until my shin splints heal. They have, though, but I'm still going to have pain when I run. Folks are going to live with the effects period. Abuse can and does change brain structure, particularly in the young. That isn't just gonna turn into a scar, its going to be a limp you learn to live with, or at least pain when you run.

And folks can do more than 'give out band aids.'