Do you believe that rape culture is real?

[justjoinedtopost]

http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/01/h...awkward-daughter-hug-example-of-rape-culture/

Well now I am in a hell of a predicament. I can't really stand Ted Cruz, but...

 

[Mila_]

Just wanted to share an article that I read a while back that I found extremely interesting and insightful, I dislike that it zeros in on men specifically because I feel there are plenty of women out there who generally view or are desensitized to these things that are pointed out as well but it was written by a man so I enjoyed that it was from the perspective of someone in the group that is being observed. Anyway. Take it however you please, either learn it understand it/some of it or roll your eyes and scoff if it pleases you. I just wanted to share it.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/how-men-are-trained-to-think-sexual-assault-no-big-deal/

The article is interesting but I wonder why he didnt include all the romantic novels aimed at an exclusively female target where the whole fantasy is being overpowered by a strong and indomitable man.

The fantasy of being overpowered is prevalent among women for biological reasons:

1) Women look for strong men, stronger than them, who will take what they want because a strong and dominant man is the best candidate to provide three important things: good genes for successful offspring, resources, and social standing among the group.

2) Because being overpowered into a sexual relationship plays into the feminine fantasy of being attractive, so attractive you are that he cannot help himself, he has to have you even in the face of rejection.

So yeah, the Han Solo and Princess Leia dynamic is common but it is made to appeal to women more than men.

And if you are honest with yourself, no matter how much of a feminist you are, you will admit that you are attracted to men like Han Solo 10 times more than you are attracted to a defferential nice guy who doesnt approach you until you have given him permission. The problem usually comes when the guy looking at you or flirting with you is deemed creepy becausehe lacks social skills or is unattractive to you.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Here is a serious question.
Reddit threads, twitter hashtags, song lyrics, movies...examples of rape culture surround us.

What sort of rape culture examples can we find from webcam performances? (of any gender)

 

[AudriTwo]

That cracked article holy shit. I like how the examples they used aren't real people. They are characters who are NOT REAL. I cant. Also some women fantasize on being man handled. Some women like to wear revealing clothing. I know they are trying to relate their message to their nerdy audience. But mother fucking hell. If you can't separate fantasy from reality, get off this planet.


It's like they are saying it's the media they consume that makes boys act like this. I remember when I was a kid, we had this guy who said video games make you violent and was so convinced it was because he felt they were wrong.

Just wanted to share an article that I read a while back that I found extremely interesting and insightful, I dislike that it zeros in on men specifically because I feel there are plenty of women out there who generally view or are desensitized to these things that are pointed out as well but it was written by a man so I enjoyed that it was from the perspective of someone in the group that is being observed. Anyway. Take it however you please, either learn it understand it/some of it or roll your eyes and scoff if it pleases you. I just wanted to share it.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/how-men-are-trained-to-think-sexual-assault-no-big-deal/

 

[Gen]

If you can't separate fantasy from reality, get off this planet.

Do you not think the media has any impact on people whatsoever? Do you think we collectively spend billions a year and tons of time consuming it, and it just doesn't influence our views at all?

I don't think he's trying to say TV made us rapists but to use examples of how repetitive cultural messaging can impact you. Telling kids something consistently like "eventually you'll fall in love with a beautiful prince/ss and live happily ever after" is of course going to affect them when they grow up and realize not everybody gets to be happy and in love. Even something simpler -- I've never been to Australia. But I've cobbled together an idea of what it's like based on media. It's almost certainly kind of wrong but the images are formed there anyway. He was talking about being a nerdy shy kid so his image of girls and relationships is more from the media than from experience. I don't think that's uncommon or "get off this planet" worthy offence.

I'm not trying to be snarky btw, I'm just of the view that media is hugely impactful so I'm always intrigued to hear the other side.

 

[LioraVox]

Here is a serious question.
Reddit threads, twitter hashtags, song lyrics, movies...examples of rape culture surround us.

What sort of rape culture examples can we find from webcam performances? (of any gender)

I don't feel like we can find any rape culture examples from webcam performances-if you're talking about camming- because it's supposed to be sexual/seductive at its core. People are putting themselves into sceanarios that are meant to be sexual. So..even if a cam person is sitting eating Oreos and a member comes in and says "would you put that Oreo in your ass?" Like it's weird and out of context but the environment is sexual so it's not inappropriate.

 

[Luckyfoxxy]

'Hey bb hru open tits' is clearly rape culture.

 

[LioraVox]

What are examples of rape culture in the camworld, from your perspectative JJTP?

 

[Booty_4U]

The article is interesting but I wonder why he didnt include all the romantic novels aimed at an exclusively female target where the whole fantasy is being overpowered by a strong and indomitable man.

The fantasy of being overpowered is prevalent among women for biological reasons:

1) Women look for strong men, stronger than them, who will take what they want because a strong and dominant man is the best candidate to provide three important things: good genes for successful offspring, resources, and social standing among the group.

2) Because being overpowered into a sexual relationship plays into the feminine fantasy of being attractive, so attractive you are that he cannot help himself, he has to have you even in the face of rejection.

So yeah, the Han Solo and Princess Leia dynamic is common but it is made to appeal to women more than men.

And if you are honest with yourself, no matter how much of a feminist you are, you will admit that you are attracted to men like Han Solo 10 times more than you are attracted to a defferential nice guy who doesnt approach you until you have given him permission. The problem usually comes when the guy looking at you or flirting with you is deemed creepy becausehe lacks social skills or is unattractive to you.

People have "rape fantasies" for lots of reasons. Some people just want to feel desired. Some women with "rape fantasies" might fantasize about someone "overpowering" them and making them orgasm, because in society we shame women for wanting to enjoy sex... so being "overpowered" and "forced" to cum, is how they can fantasize about cumming, without feeling like they're a "slut" for wanting sex. (The majority of people with "rape fantasies" do not actually want to be raped.)
http://www.healthyplace.com/abuse/rape/rape-fantasy-does-it-mean-you-want-to-be-raped/
http://thetab.com/uk/2017/02/02/sexologist-explains-women-rape-fantasies-30895

Your theory about all women/feminists wanting a manly alpha man is a laughable strawman. Ever heard of queer people? And plenty of straight women have zero desire to be with a macho guy... maybe because it has nothing to do with "biology"? "Macho is better" is constantly portrayed in the media, "weak" men are made fun of growing up, etc... no one develops their sexual "preferences" within a vacuum.

This idea that "women like being harassed by hot guys, and only get offended when the guy is unattractive or socially awkward" is another strawman. I'm disgusted by any unwanted sexual advances, no matter what the person looks like... and how is anyone supposed to tell when a guy is shy and awkward or a sexual predator!? I just want to live my life without being objectified and/or harassed in public... "He's just socially awkward" doesn't excuse shitty behavior if they've done something to creep someone else out, sorry. Intent < Impact

 

[Gen]

Yeah, saying "secretly everyone agrees with me" is totally faulty. Not only is evopsych debated all the time for good reason but even if the majority prefer a Han Solo, with billions of women in the world, there are fucktons who like a softer dude (like Luke Skywalker!).

 

[justjoinedtopost]

What are examples of rape culture in the camworld, from your perspectative JJTP?

Thank you for asking..

This post you agreed with...

Do you not think the media has any impact on people whatsoever? Do you think we collectively spend billions a year and tons of time consuming it, and it just doesn't influence our views at all?

I don't think he's trying to say TV made us rapists but to use examples of how repetitive cultural messaging can impact you. Telling kids something consistently like "eventually you'll fall in love with a beautiful prince/ss and live happily ever after" is of course going to affect them when they grow up and realize not everybody gets to be happy and in love. Even something simpler -- I've never been to Australia. But I've cobbled together an idea of what it's like based on media. It's almost certainly kind of wrong but the images are formed there anyway. He was talking about being a nerdy shy kid so his image of girls and relationships is more from the media than from experience. I don't think that's uncommon or "get off this planet" worthy offence.

I'm not trying to be snarky btw, I'm just of the view that media is hugely impactful so I'm always intrigued to hear the other side.

Important to understand, camsites are just as much a part of the media now as reddit, twitter, youtube, movies, music, etc...Especially the free chat sites, the ones that are wide open to minors.
With that in mind, this next post of yours is either delusional, or hypocritical, or lacking in situational awareness, or...idk.

I don't feel like we can find any rape culture examples from webcam performances-if you're talking about camming- because it's supposed to be sexual/seductive at its core. People are putting themselves into sceanarios that are meant to be sexual. So..even if a cam person is sitting eating Oreos and a member comes in and says "would you put that Oreo in your ass?" Like it's weird and out of context but the environment is sexual so it's not inappropriate.

No. You don't get a free pass. You don't get an exemption. Don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise. Never mind how you feel. You are relatively new part of the media.
I am not speaking with malice/trollishness in mind here.

Sure, I have seen some examples from the camworld (from performers) that could fit in right alongside other examples I have seen of "rape culture". But I feel some conflict about the whole issue, and coming from me I think it would constitute little more than attackish/trollish derailment, no matter how I worded it.

 

[Luckyfoxxy]

I just want to live my life without being objectified and/or harassed in public...

You are a camgirl though?

 

[SMuser69]

I don't feel like we can find any rape culture examples from webcam performances-if you're talking about camming- because it's supposed to be sexual/seductive at its core. People are putting themselves into sceanarios that are meant to be sexual. So..even if a cam person is sitting eating Oreos and a member comes in and says "would you put that Oreo in your ass?" Like it's weird and out of context but the environment is sexual so it's not inappropriate.

You might perceive this is the case but not true. Cam modelling is sexual because cam sites don't restrict it. If Twitch didn't have rules on clothing you can bet there be nude gamers with lush by now. There no cam site on earth that tells you that you have to get nude or even perform sexual acts. Models do that because pushing the limits attracts the largest paying consumer base there. The only thing you're required to do on any cam site is make money. There are models that find ways to make money without taking any clothes off. It's not easy and it won't appeal to a large portion of the customer base however getting the most customers possible doesn't always mean you're making the most money. A model's choice to go naked is a business decision.

 

[Gen]

You are a camgirl though?

I used to waitress, if someone walked up to me on the street and said "hey get me a coffee", I'd be pretty annoyed and put off.

What you do for work and what you'll accept for money isn't necessarily something you want to do 24/7? If some guy threw nickels at you on the subway and said BOOBS, would you be like "k great" or would you think, hey buddy maybe not the time and place.

 

[AudriTwo]

Do you not think the media has any impact on people whatsoever? Do you think we collectively spend billions a year and tons of time consuming it, and it just doesn't influence our views at all?

I don't think he's trying to say TV made us rapists but to use examples of how repetitive cultural messaging can impact you. Telling kids something consistently like "eventually you'll fall in love with a beautiful prince/ss and live happily ever after" is of course going to affect them when they grow up and realize not everybody gets to be happy and in love. Even something simpler -- I've never been to Australia. But I've cobbled together an idea of what it's like based on media. It's almost certainly kind of wrong but the images are formed there anyway. He was talking about being a nerdy shy kid so his image of girls and relationships is more from the media than from experience. I don't think that's uncommon or "get off this planet" worthy offence.

I'm not trying to be snarky btw, I'm just of the view that media is hugely impactful so I'm always intrigued to hear the other side.

No it's all good. I was being snarky and incredibly hyperbolic. Of course I don't literally mean off the planet. I just think people who take characters actions and behaviors in fiction seriously, are kinda silly. To an extent media does have an impact. As in what is popular and the news. I meant media as in film and tv shows. Now I'm mainly talking fiction here. Characters are usually driven by the plot. Especially their behaviors and actions. And for "but what if a child..." It is the parents responsibility to make sure their child understand real and not real.

I just like flaws in my characters. Don't make them all squeaky clean.

 

[JoleneBrody]

I used to waitress, if someone walked up to me on the street and said "hey get me a coffee", I'd be pretty annoyed and put off.

What you do for work and what you'll accept for money isn't necessarily something you want to do 24/7? If some guy threw nickels at you on the subway and said BOOBS, would you be like "k great" or would you think, hey buddy maybe not the time and place.

We consent to a certain dynamic the moment we hit broadcast, and that dynamic is set by and managed by us within that designated space. Just as liking sex in the privacy of your home doesn't mean you want to fuck anyone, anywhere, anytime neither does it mean in daily public life do camgirls expect to be treated differently than any other person.

Accepting sexual interaction in one area of your life does not mean you have to accept it everywhere, that is pretty wacky logic.

 

[Gen]

No it's all good. I was being snarky and incredibly hyperbolic. Of course I don't literally mean off the planet. I just think people who take characters actions and behaviors in fiction seriously, are kinda silly. To an extent media does have an impact. As in what is popular and the news. I meant media as in film and tv shows. Now I'm mainly talking fiction here. Characters are usually driven by the plot, usually. And for "but what if a child..." It is the parents responsibility to make sure their child understand real and not real.

I just like flaws in my characters. Don't make them all squeaky clean.

I definitely agree about not having squeaky clean characters. (Only kind of related but I liked this article about how many superheroes geared towards girls are boring af in their attempt to be good role models: http://comicsalliance.com/female-heroes-good-girl-role-models/)

Anyway I do agree about parents and kids though I think it's becoming easier and easier for kids to access things beyond what they can easily decipher, without their parents knowing. I am 100% opposed to censoring media because kids might see it, there should be stuff made for adults - but I do think it's inevitable that kids will see stuff that can influence them, and even just knowing that reality and fantasy are different it can still impact them. It's like knowing ads are Photoshopped; even though we know this, the imagery is still impactful and influential.

But I do think it's important to look at repetition, like he was saying - so many roguish men taking what they want from women who say no but mean yes. Even if we take an essentialist perspective and believe that's just the nature of men and women, it's still reinforcing that and showing this relationship dynamic without any of the "ew what the fuck don't touch me" that would accompany it in real life at least some of the time. And seeing it over and over makes it seem normal, reinforces our preconceived notions that this is just how men and women are, etc. So I do think while it's a mistake to say "tv makes men bad", media representation is definitely a factor in how we all see and treat each other imo.

(Also I think talking about how media impacts us is almost always negative, like the video games make us violent panic. But I don't think it's inherently good or bad, and I think it's like, a loop. We influence media, media influences us, and so forth forever.)

 

[Luckyfoxxy]

We consent to a certain dynamic the moment we hit broadcast, and that dynamic is set by and managed by us within that designated space. Just as liking sex in the privacy of your home doesn't mean you want to fuck anyone, anywhere, anytime neither does it mean in daily public life do camgirls expect to be treated differently than any other person.

Accepting sexual interaction in one area of your life does not mean you have to accept it everywhere, that is pretty wacky logic.

But doesn't that mean sexual objectification in some instances is a good thing? Well, as long as you can exploit it to make money? Going by GenXoxo comparison, I wouldn't moan somebody wants to drink my coffee, it means the business will be booming.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

I used to waitress, if someone walked up to me on the street and said "hey get me a coffee", I'd be pretty annoyed and put off.

What you do for work and what you'll accept for money isn't necessarily something you want to do 24/7? If some guy threw nickels at you on the subway and said BOOBS, would you be like "k great" or would you think, hey buddy maybe not the time and place.

We consent to a certain dynamic the moment we hit broadcast, and that dynamic is set by and managed by us within that designated space. Just as liking sex in the privacy of your home doesn't mean you want to fuck anyone, anywhere, anytime neither does it mean in daily public life do camgirls expect to be treated differently than any other person.

Accepting sexual interaction in one area of your life does not mean you have to accept it everywhere, that is pretty wacky logic.

Without disagreeing with either of you...

This is what you are willing to accept, consent to at work. For money.
How do you feel about someone else pointing at what you consentually do at work, whatever manner you creatively express yourself, and saying "You are part of the reason someone unrelated to you is victimized"?

 

[JoleneBrody]

Without disagreeing with either of you...

This is what you are willing to accept, consent to at work. For money.
How do you feel about someone else pointing at what you consentually do at work, whatever manner you creatively express yourself, and saying "You are part of the reason someone unrelated to you is victimized"?

I personally would disagree with them? I run a strict ass cam room though and do not allow people to talk to me in my cam room in a way I wouldn't be comfortable with outside... so my experience is not too relevant.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

I personally would disagree with them? I run a strict ass cam room though and do not allow people to talk to me in my cam room in a way I wouldn't be comfortable with outside... so my experience is not too relevant.

so I have seen

But I wasn't talking about in your chat room, I was referring to external voices.

edit: and I haven't been trolling your room

 

[Booty_4U]

But doesn't that mean sexual objectification in some instances is a good thing? Well, as long as you can exploit it to make money?

Exploitation
- the action or fact of treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their work.

Sexual Objectification
- the act of treating a person as an instrument of sexual pleasure. Objectification more broadly means treating a person as a commodity or an object without regard to their personality or dignity.


Sex workers are not "exploiting" ourselves. We aren't "sexually objectifying" ourselves. We are consenting people, providing a service. (Non-consent = not "sex work"... this is where human trafficking and revenge porn come into play)
Will there be customers who objectify us? Of course! But women in every field are objectified by their peers/customers/bosses/etc. Sex workers are putting their image out there for people to use for sexual purposes. Me walking around town? Not sex work, don't jerk off while you watch me getting groceries please. Me putting xxx videos online to make a profit? Sex work, feel free to purchase and enjoy!

Without disagreeing with either of you...

This is what you are willing to accept, consent to at work. For money.
How do you feel about someone else pointing at what you consentually do at work, whatever manner you creatively express yourself, and saying "You are part of the reason someone unrelated to you is victimized"?

Do people blame Hollywood actresses for people getting victimized? Or waitresses? Or mainstream models? I feel like blaming sex workers for the sexual objectification of non-sex workers, is whorephobic. If sex work disappeared tomorrow, people would still be victimized.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Do people blame Hollywood actresses for people getting victimized? Or waitresses? Or mainstream models? I feel like blaming sex workers for the sexual objectification of non-sex workers, is whorephobic. If sex work disappeared tomorrow, people would still be victimized.

I am not interested in the sex worker. I am interested in the individual.

How would you feel if someone took some of your material, pointed at it and said "This is rape culture"?

 

[Mila_]

People have "rape fantasies" for lots of reasons.

I wasn't talking about rape fantasies, though. I was talking about most women desiring a dominant and powerful man.

Yeah, saying "secretly everyone agrees with me" is totally faulty. Not only is evopsych debated all the time for good reason but even if the majority prefer a Han Solo, with billions of women in the world, there are fucktons who like a softer dude (like Luke Skywalker!).

I didn't mean everyone agrees with me secretly or not... I don't know what part of my post made you think I feel that way. What I said, which is a fact and not an opinion, is that the best sellers lists within the romantic novel genre, which is aimed exclusively at women are usually riddled with novels in which the female protagonist is overpowered by a strong man. The structure of these novels is almost always the same... the protagonist who is an innocent, sensitive, or introverted girl meets a man who is strong, wild, and bad, and scary to her, but he wants her so badly he takes her and she ends up loving it. There are a million examples of this going as far back as fairy tales with The Beauty and the Beast and as recent as 50 Shades. This is a fact, not my opinion, so what I was trying to point out is that the Han Solo archetype is there precisely because of the romantic component within Star Wars, he is there to be the romantic interest to Leia, to appeal to women. Luke Skywalker is there to appeal to men. And this is also consistent with seduction techniques men use to game women. The tricks and theories all revolve around making yourself more attractive by being more assertive, not less. And it works.

Most women, especially feminine women look for a strong man who can lead them, who is the leader of other men, who is dominant and proactive, who takes what he wants without asking, these are all masculine traits who complement the female nature. There are exceptions to this of course, women aren't a monolith and as a general rule the less feminine (or gender-conforming to use femspeak) is the woman in question the less she will look for these qualities in a man. And this is part of the reason why feminists oppose it. Feminism opposes femininity and masculinity, both. Anything that might resemble masculinity must be criticized and demonized... because the goal of feminism is to abolish the differences between the sexes. So any display of strength or dominance is labeled as part of "rape culture", if a man has to spread his legs in the subway because he has testicles to protect, he is suddenly guilty of "manspreading" because men now need to take up as little space as possible and act like a dainty schoolgirl in public to avoid feminist hysteria, etc etc etc.

 

[Booty_4U]

I am not interested in the sex worker. I am interested in the individual.

How would you feel if someone took some of your material, pointed at it and said "This is rape culture"?

Depending on what video of mine it is, I might agree with them.

I wasn't talking about rape fantasies, though. I was talking about most women desiring a dominant and powerful man.



I didn't mean everyone agrees with me secretly or not... I don't know what part of my post made you think I feel that way. What I said, which is a fact and not an opinion, is that the best sellers lists within the romantic novel genre, which is aimed exclusively at women are usually riddled with novels in which the female protagonist is overpowered by a strong man. The structure of these novels is almost always the same... the protagonist who is an innocent girl meets a man who is strong, wild, and bad, and scary to her, but he wants her so badly he takes her and she ends up loving it. There are a million examples of this going as far back as fairy tales with The Beauty and the Beast and as recent as 50 Shades. This is a fact, not my opinion, so what I was trying to point out is that the Han Solo archetype is there precisely because of the romantic component within Star Wars, he is there to be the romantic interest to Leia, to appeal to women. Luke Skywalker is there to appeal to men. And this is also consistent with seduction techniques men use to game women.

Most women, especially feminine women look for a strong man who can lead them, who is the leader of other men, who is dominant and proactive, who takes what he wants without asking, these are all masculine traits who complement the female nature. There are exceptions to this of course, women aren't a monolith and as a general rule the less feminine (or gender-conforming to use femspeak) is the woman in question the less she will look for these qualities in a man. And this is part of the reason why feminists oppose anything that might resemble masculinity... because the goal of feminism is to abolish the differences between the sexes.

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I think the "women want strong men" trope has to do with the fact that men are the ones who've ~created~ this ideal and upheld it for centuries. Men have historically held more social and legal influence than women, so to me it makes sense that they'd reinforce this idea that women are weak and need a strong man to protect her (because with women always dependent on them, they keep their powerful social statuses under the guise of "we're just trying to protect you!")
Edited to add: Lots of women wholeheartedly believe men are stronger & should protect women... but this idea didn't just come to fruition magically out of nowhere!

 

[Mila_]

I think the "women want strong men" trope has to do with the fact that men are the ones who've ~created~ this ideal and upheld it for centuries. Men have historically held more social and legal influence than women, so to me it makes sense that they'd reinforce this idea that women are weak and need a strong man to protect her (because with women always dependent on them, they keep their powerful social statuses under the guise of "we're just trying to protect you!")

Of course you believe this, that is the feminist ideology at it's core: there are no natural differences between the sexes, everything is a social construct of the evil Patriarchy. And it is consistent with the goals of feminism: to reach equality through the abolition of these differences and consequently, the family. The contradictory thing though is this new feminist struggle in support of transexuals... if there are no biological differences and everything is a social construct, why give transexuals hormones? Not that I care a lot about the justifications, I am sure they built an edifice of words to fix that contradiction.

But in reality, and this is backed up by science is that there are very real biological differences between the sexes. There is a feminine nature and a masculine nature. They are the result of hormones, differences in brain structure, the functions of our organs, the density and shape of our skeletons, the biological needs of each sex and the speed in which we age. You can't possibly believe in evolution and simultaneously deny these differences.

Women crave strong and dominant men because we evolved for it. We are weaker, and we go through 9 months of pregnancy. In the past this would put women in a very vulnerable position, they needed a man that was capable of taking care of her and her offspring, and defend them so that she could pass on her genes to the next generation. Only the women who succeeded at this managed to have offspring, so we are highly predisposed to finding these traits in a man. Men, on the other hand have a natural predisposition to spread their seed because pregnancy has no cost to them. Men who could fuck more women had more chances to pass on their genes, so they too were selected to crave variety and have intense sexual impulses we do not have. This is why they stare at us and why they pay camgirls to satisfy that craving on cam.

 

[Luckyfoxxy]

Exploitation
- the action or fact of treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their work.

Sexual Objectification
- the act of treating a person as an instrument of sexual pleasure. Objectification more broadly means treating a person as a commodity or an object without regard to their personality or dignity.


Sex workers are not "exploiting" ourselves. We aren't "sexually objectifying" ourselves. We are consenting people, providing a service. (Non-consent = not "sex work"... this is where human trafficking and revenge porn come into play)
Will there be customers who objectify us? Of course! But women in every field are objectified by their peers/customers/bosses/etc. Sex workers are putting their image out there for people to use for sexual purposes. Me walking around town? Not sex work, don't jerk off while you watch me getting groceries please. Me putting xxx videos online to make a profit? Sex work, feel free to purchase and enjoy!

Whatever you acknowledge it or not, you profit off the fact men like to look at women and fantasize about them with no regard to their personality or dignity.

 

[Gen]

I didn't mean everyone agrees with me secretly or not... I don't know what part of my post made you think I feel that way.

It was this:

And if you are honest with yourself, no matter how much of a feminist you are, you will admit that you are attracted to men like Han Solo 10 times more than you are attracted to a defferential nice guy who doesnt approach you until you have given him permission

Speaking as if women who don't like aggro dudes are all secretly hiding their true feelings (that happen to align with yours).

This is a fact, not my opinion, so what I was trying to point out is that the Han Solo archetype is there precisely because of the romantic component within Star Wars, he is there to be the romantic interest to Leia, to appeal to women. Luke Skywalker is there to appeal to men.

I disagree with that premise. Firstly I don't think they'd cater one of three main characters in a sci-fi movie made in the 1970s to appeal to women. Secondly I believe Han represents a male power fantasy, just like lots of male superheroes who are super jacked and rich and have all the power, status, etc that real life men want. Luke is a different type of fantasy in which a dude who is pretty generic and not special gets to be the big hero eventually; a lot more relatable and feels attainable even if it's not. I don't think there's anything wrong with either of these (I love similar archetypes and power fantasies with lady heroes) but I don't think either were made for women.

That said, it was really just the way of insinuating women were all saying one thing while really feeling another. I don't disagree that a lot of women like aggressive dudes. But like you later said, there's loads of exceptions, so I think we are on the same page.

 

[AmberCutie]

But doesn't that mean sexual objectification in some instances is a good thing? Well, as long as you can exploit it to make money? Going by GenXoxo comparison, I wouldn't moan somebody wants to drink my coffee, it means the business will be booming.

I get the sense you're really new to the Adult industry and camming.

 

[Luckyfoxxy]

I get the sense you're really new to the Adult industry and camming.

That would be true to some extent. I'm new to camming.