Bocefish said:
Freedom isn't free, just in case you haven't noticed.
Whiney wusses wouldn't be able to freely snivel about sky man otherwise.
give us a nation with arable land and we'll be more than happy to keep to ourselves.
Give it to you?
If somebody GAVE me a chunk of land, I'd be more than happy to keep it too.
Give it to us? You suggested 'transporting' us there. Transportation of a group of criminals or otherwise 'undesirables' to a far flung land, is by extension a colony unless you just expect us to find an airport and fly back or something?
No, I'm not just making it up, I base my beliefs on evidence, not faith, magic or reciting some kind of 'spell' each night on my knees.
Transportation or penal transportation is the sending of convicted criminals to a penal colony. For example, France transported convicts to Devil's Island and New Caledonia, and Great Britain to its colonies in the Americas (from the 1610s until the American Revolution in the 1770s) and Australia (1788–1868).
I guess to you that's Afghanistan? I mean, agreed it must suck to live in Afghanistan - just in the last 3 decades alone they've had to fight off the Soviets, then endured religious sky-man crazies (the Taliban btw, I want to make sure you understand this), and now their country is in a constant insurgency against you guys who came in to get rid of the taliban for umm, I dunno, being religious crazies or something? Or umm, not having Osama in a cave? Was that the reason?
Naw I'm not defending the Taliban, but their shade of religious bigotry is just a slightly different one from yours you arrogant, ignorant prick. At the end result of this you seem to imply that atheists should be 'transported' to the worst place on Earth you can think of I suppose - that country with a democratically elected government that your Bushtard-led coalition went in guns blazing to put in place? It would be moronic to say that any current acts of terror and violence in Afghanistan are solely caused by the presence of foreign troops these last however many years it took for that shitstorm to umm...well it's still going. It would be even MORE moronic however to suggest that the presence of foreign military in their country for so long hasn't largely contributed to escalations of attacks by various insurgents and terror groups in the region.
Whatever we did in Afghanistan might have been meant to be good for the west, to bring down regimes we don't like or to protect our interests, but don't fucking pretend it was good for Afghanistan or the Afghan people. We gave them over a decade of war, death,
foreign troops on their soil. How would
you feel if there were foreign troops on YOUR soil, telling you what was good for YOU, whether they were right or wrong you'd be reaching for those guns you love so much, faster than you can say 'Uncle Sam' and you fucking know it. Btw everyone else here knows it too. If you were born in Afghanistan you'd be called, at best, an insurgent.
Grats Boce, you're a potential insurgent. Can you handle that concept or is that too confronting for you?
So just to sum that up, in the last three decades alone, Afghanistan has been invaded (yep, that's the term for an uninvited hostile military incursion to another country) by two superpowers, and brutalised by one group of religious people.
Firstly, the Soviet Union
during which they endured 10 years of war against a foreign aggressive superpower, and won, (and if you don't respect them for that you're a fucking hypocrite thrice over now).
Oh and btw, the US supplied arms (obviously, it was during the fucking Cold War) to the Afghanis (no one denies this, least of all the US Govt). The list of those commanders reads like a whos-who of infamous terrorists it is considered as close to fact as possible by the intelligence community that Al Qaeda formed from Islamist mujahadeen commanders access to contacts, tactics and military hardware (all US supplied) they had used to fight off the Soviets. Also, religious extremists and the first inception of what would one day be called the Taliban.
The American backed victory - of course executed on behalf of America's interest at the time, being the stymying of the Soviet Union - had unintended consequences, as such things often do. You see generally when the big rich guy gives you an investment and you make good through your own hard work (or fight off the soviets with your own sons and brothers and blood), the rich guy or superpower wants stuff back usually. They don't do stuff for charity, despite what Fox tells you, countries don't go to war because they're being good samaritans, they're just not dumb enough to tell the truth - and some people aren't smart enough to figure it out from common sense.
Sad day tho, the leaders that you supplied guns and stuff to, and who had a huge pool of veteran guerilla fighters who owed their lives and their country to these men, turned out to be religious extremists. Well, that wasn't really a surprise honestly - the tribal leaders and commanders were part of a hierarchical system whereby the leaders were often quite wealthy, and of noble birth.
Why does this breed religious extremism? That's a hot topic in some circles, because it flies in the face of our Western understanding of terrorism and extremism. In our cultures we observe disaffected youths, minorities, immigrants and other kids who feel like they 'don't fit in' lured into extremist groups. The US misjudged, badly, and unintentionally gave birth at this time to not only the Taliban and Al Qaeda, but through consequence 911, and the second Iraq war.
Here's why.
Most importantly, they didn't give a shit about what might happen down the road they wanted the Soviet Union to stay in a long, draining horrible war, with the ultimate cherry being that it led to the dissolution of their only competition.
Secondly, and this is the trigger of all of it, by not sufficiently understanding the education and indocrination of anyone in such religiously-dominated cultures such as Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, to a lesser extent, but ESPECIALLY the ridiculously wealthy princes and Emirs and so forth whose entire identity and place in their society is both reinforced and legitimised by the state, which is the religion, which is the state.
The US intelligence community unfortunately apparently neglected to realise that just because
they might swear on the bible and stab someone in the back at the same time, these religious extremists who just fought off a superpower weren't going to play ball. Are you kidding? They're rich, they're true believers, they believed god was on their side and they fought off the USSR and attributed that to a mandate from god...duh, course they weren't going to suck America's metaphorical dick for oil or a military presence or whatever the fuck they wanted, they had a country to make, their way!
The Islamists who fought also believed that they were responsible for the fall of the Soviet Union. Osama bin Laden, for example, was asserting the credit for "the dissolution of the Soviet Union ... goes to God and the mujahideen in Afghanistan ..."
And of course it would be unfair not to point out that the people you were fighting by proxy seemed to think some rather eerily familiar things about why they were there in the first place:
20th Anniversary of Withdrawal of Soviet Military Forces from Afghanistan. Stamp of Belarus, 2009.
Commemorating the intervention of December 25, 1979, in December 2009, veterans of the Soviet war in Afghanistan were honoured by the Duma or Parliament of the Russian Federation. On December 25, the lower house of the parliament defended the Soviet war in Afghanistan on the 30th anniversary of its start, and praised the veterans of the conflict. Differing assessments of the war "mustn't erode the Russian people's respect for the soldiers who honestly fulfilled their duty in implementing tasks to combat international terrorism and religious extremists".
Any of this sounding familiar to you btw? They have to honour the soldiers who did their duty for their country to "combat
international terrorism and religious extremists"
And then finally...would you like to take a wild guess which superpower assfucked/is assfucking Afghanistan next Bocefish?
Try to put yourself in someone else's shoes for once, just because someone comes from somewhere else doesn't mean they're different from you.
I mean shit, I wouldn't know anyway, I just worked in our version of your State Department for almost 10 years, have part Pol. Sci major BA, have close friends and former colleagues who work in Embassies and High Commissions in countries all around the world, have a brother who spent about 10 years in the Aussie military, followed by the next 15 in the Aust. Defence Department, oh and Uncle Ian who was a WO1 in SigInt and codebreaking in Vietnam during the war, he's always good to have a jaw with about some of his (edited) experiences with faulty intelligence, disinformation and so forth.
So shit I dunno.
Oh btw, I think we'll be getting most of the scientists so if you want us to design anything or need any surgery or medicine before you transport us to Afghanistan, best let us know ASAP, thanks have a nice day! :hello2: