clients turned friends

[papichulo80]

Welllll I always assume its A or B so I politely decline. I'm an in the club only kind of guy I learned my lesson.
So why do some try so hard to convince me it's c? Hard hustle? Or are they convincing themselves?
M
Also obviously stripping is a better analogy for this thread.thanks audri

 

[RogueWarrior]

Replying to the OP only:

As a member, I feel like I have "friends" as models. What does that mean? We share interests. We may or may not have some inside jokes. We have the same sense of humor. I don't expect any special treatment for being a "friend". Tips don't decrease, in fact, they should increase.

If any of the above does not happen, they are not a "friend", they are looking to freeload.

And yes I purposefully put friend in quotes. Just as some model/member relationships have worked out, I'll take off the quotes if it's a real connection. And I'm not super jaded, just realistic. One model I frequent, we have a connection through music. If we met IRL, it would be a total music discussion.

Yeah, MFC can be fun that way, but be wary.

 

[AudriTwo]

Welllll I always assume its A or B so I politely decline. I'm an in the club only kind of guy I learned my lesson.
So why do some try so hard to convince me it's c? Hard hustle? Or are they convincing themselves?
M
Also obviously stripping is a better analogy for this thread.thanks audri

Yeah I usually equate talking to customers off cam to OTC.

Spoiler: OTC?

OTC = outside the club. From meeting a dancer for coffee or outside escort services.

 

[MFCuser]

Something to think about: emotional labor is still labor. If they're not paying you for your time and feel entitled to it they're basically stealing from you. I know someone who is naturally giving can have a hard time saying no or ignoring people, but you deserve to have your time and profession respected.

This does run both directions. There are models who I have gotten close to who require a lot of emotional labor on my part and if they ever got mad at me for not tipping I would probably just disappear.

I have the most fun, and tip the most, in rooms where the model realizes this is fantasy. I dont want to be paying to help you with your personal drama, I have enough drama in my own life.

 

[DarcyDelaney]

This does run both directions. There are models who I have gotten close to who require a lot of emotional labor on my part and if they ever got mad at me for not tipping I would probably just disappear.

I have the most fun, and tip the most, in rooms where the model realizes this is fantasy. I dont want to be paying to help you with your personal drama, I have enough drama in my own life.

Yeah, there's a fine line we on each side have to walk between getting the sort of attention that is beneficial to both parties and not behaving like an entitled child. For me, when a client has lost the plot, so to speak, and no longer treats it as fantasy, it's hard for me to even enjoy humoring them as a customer when they do pay a reasonable amount of the time. I can see it being difficult from a customer's perspective when they have to serve as a model's shoulder to cry on quite often, or feeling guilted into bailing them out financially after hearing sob story after sob story. Basically it comes down to respect, which is a two-way street.

I saw a lot of weird dancer-customer dynamics that played on this stuff when I worked in a strip club. It often didn't turn out well when a customer ended up getting snubbed by a dancer he was too clingy with, or when a customer had enough of a dancer being similarly clingy and spent more time and money on another dancer or worse, at another club. Enough dancers worked at other clubs that word would get out that so-and-so's "man" was too cozy with someone else and all hell would break loose. But at this particular club it was often drug-related which was super sad. :\ That's one benefit of online sex work I hadn't really considered before I started, that other people's drug habits don't necessarily interfere, thankfully. Although that's neither here nor there...

 

[Ambers Troll]

A friend will never disrupt your work; for a model this generally comes down to unpaid attention over those who are interested. If you leave it at that it becomes quite simple.

What this looks like for me as member is that I usually keep my friendships with models quite limited. It means I can maintain them much longer, and get more pleasure out of them.
I can say no to spending with any of my model friends without offense. I never deny a friend the opportunity to chase my spending, invite me to their room, or ask for some help. I am a bit cautious of chat that feels like distraction from others or costs her, if you like a model you just shouldn't do that.
Sometimes this may mean that you can't visit your model friend as often as you used to, due to how busy they have become. You exchange a hello, look for a moment, or sometimes even save up for one. This is for me about the best example of what client model friendship looks like from the member side.

 

[MDouble00]

This thread has turned out much more interesting and better discussed than I have seen it in other places recently. So I definitely appreciate the discourse that has occurred here. I've said in the past that the closeness of the model member interaction puts a paradox on friendship and its meaning.

I'm sure I'm in the minority for many members, but I don't let these interactions reach what I consider friendship. More specifically I relate to this so much:

I'm friendly with my regs, but I'm not their friend. I do care about them, but end of the day, I get on cam to make money. .

I have a similar belief system in that I'm nice to the models I frequent and I care to see them succeed and enjoy interacting with them. But, I also like spending this money to see the perform and so forth. I don't feel that I need to have anything more beyond that. I also understand that if I don't visit as much that I can't just expect things to continue or be gifted just because I'm a regular etc.

Now having said I don't let my interactions with models reach what I consider friendship I also have experienced things like this:

So I generally see it as visiting a bar,
When I bartended i had a group of regs that i was friendly with, but if they were at the bar then they were drinking and tipping. I think this is a fair comparison and i follow it when i visit a chat room.
My question is where are the lines when you start talking outside the "bar" If i ever gave my personal number to a reg and suggested hanging out in a social context i wouldn't expect to be financially compensated. Is it different because it's sex work? What are the expectation when a cam model says "let's stay in touch. I'd like to exchange info and talk."
thanks

I also found this position interesting. As I definitely have befriended bartenders in some of my favorite bars in college and post college. And, if I was hanging out in the bar and they were working I talked casually, but didn't command their time and tipped them when I left. If we were hanging out, outside of the bar at house parties, restaurants, wherever we are no longer in their workplace so the dynamic has changed. So it would be odd to be all here buddy here's $5 for coming to my party. Sweet deal, but you obviously see the humor in that exchange. I even got close with a couple that own a bar and still choose to bartend on specific nights. And whenever I go back for an alumni event or something. I might get a free round or two, but they also know that I'm going to buy several rounds and tip while I'm there. We are friends, but when I go to their place of employment, more specifically their business. I know to pay for the services.

I've also befriended strippers more so back in college, but if I was at the club and they were working on the stage I would tip them. If they came and sat with me or something between sets or when they weren't giving lap dances or such to other patrons I didn't feel obligated to tip them. If they are choosing to hang out and speak with me during their down time that is fine, but I don't interrupt them when they are trying to work if that makes sense.

I rambled more than I would like, but if members are demanding your time and attention but not contributing especially when you are working then that is toxic and that can only end badly for all parties. If you make the attempts to interact with the members when you're not working or in your down time, which is coincidentally also potentially the members downtime than that interaction shouldn't be monetized or have a price tag attributed to it if the goal of that interaction is just communicating as "friends".

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Something to bear in mind which is the harsh truth of some MFC "friendships", is if they were tipping you loads and suddenly stopped when you started giving them free attention, they may well be off tipping someone else when you're not on cam. It's a harsh part of any business that if you start giving it out for free (in this case off cam attention and the ability to be a regular in your room without tipping), they may stop valuing you. You set your own prices, and if that price is free people will think that's what you're worth (or are asking for) and won't tip. These people may be spending elsewhere or are completely willing to spend elsewhere. I've seen this happening a bunch of times in other careers where someone will allow their friend to do work for them for free as a friendly favour then will spend the money they would have spent on more work from someone else.

This might not be happening in your case, but it is something to think about. I actually looked back at some of my chat logs recently and realised when I started there were guys talking to me all the time and always watching me on cam who had barely tipped me anything. I now know that these guys were also tippers of higher camscore models, enough to get them noticed. So essentially they could have tipped me but chose not to.

The bar analogy is pretty good, though camming is a bit different, also if you're still on your camming snapchat then technically you're still in your area of work. Because the nature of webcamming includes company, conversation and entertainment when you speak to members offline it's more of a girlfriend experience relationship than a "hey we're now best friends", unless you literally tell someone they're now your best friend and they no longer need to tip you have you ever really left the bar? You're more just hanging out with them after hours. Kind of like a lock in at your place of work or sticking around for drinks. Bar work is slightly different because your job isn't chatting to customers, your job is serving them. Chatting is entirely up to your discretion. Camming on the other hand for a lot of models is primarily about the chat/personality elements and building a connection with regulars. Personally I don't ever expect tips for chatting offline, but a lot of my regulars do drop a tip anyway if we've had a great chat. It's a really wonderful gesture which I see more like bringing a gift to someones house or taking a friend out for a meal than a payment for time. It's absolutely not necessary but it's saying "I respect and appreciate the time we've spent together", to me it also says "I value our friendship as much as all the sexy things you do on cam". I guess if we go into the bar work equivalent it's like I've worked behind the bar serving people all night and have ended up getting on with them and afterwards they've taken me out for drinks as appreciation.
If you love chatting to people then there are plenty of people on MFC who value that closer friendship, it's not worth it wasting time on people who just want to drain your time and energy and never give anything back when there are so many amazing people to meet! Besides, if they want to be real life friends they should stop watching you on MFC. I don't give any of my real life friends my MFC details so they can come and watch me, I feel you can't have both.

It's difficult to talk to members about their tipping habits without seeming money hungry, confronting these members directly will likely result in fall out so if I were to offer advice I'd say try to do it indirectly as politely as possible. Possibly just being really clear by saying pm chat is now limited to regular tippers as you want to focus more on live camming as offline chat is consuming too much of your free time, but that they're welcome to chat and hang out in your room. Thank the chatters for their time as you explain your circumstances have changed, if they make a fuss then keep your response simple. They have no right to demand your time and they know it. Then they can choose if they want to tip or not without you directly asking them to. Either way, if they're going to leave, you haven't lost anything in tokens or in friendship because no true friend would leave like that. You've basically got nothing to lose.

 

[MDouble00]

The bar analogy is pretty good, though camming is a bit different, also if you're still on your camming snapchat then technically you're still in your area of work. Because the nature of webcamming includes company, conversation and entertainment when you speak to members offline it's more of a girlfriend experience relationship than a "hey we're now best friends", unless you literally tell someone they're now your best friend and they no longer need to tip you have you ever really left the bar? You're more just hanging out with them after hours. Kind of like a lock in at your place of work or sticking around for drinks. Bar work is slightly different because your job isn't chatting to customers, your job is serving them. Chatting is entirely up to your discretion. Camming on the other hand for a lot of models is primarily about the chat/personality elements and building a connection with regulars.

I found much of what you mentioned in your full post helpful. My counter to the quoted piece is if the "cam girl" is always in "cam girl" mode the member is never really out of customer mode in that scenario? Which is why it can be so hard to split what is friendship and what is still a business transaction for so many. I could be misinterpreting your usage of the phrase but saying "girlfriend experience" is something I typically would associate as a paid service either with escorts/hookers/sugar babies/ and so forth in that it is a relationship fully tied to a business transaction.

I guess my real question I would like to have elaborated on from the models perspective with the term "friend"... Where is the point in which you consider the member your friend and don't expect them to pay for your time and attention? Let me make it abundantly clear and I feel this ties back to OP's question I'm not saying the member should not pay you during your working shifts or buy your offerings just because you're friends. Or expect that those items that a "customer" would be expected to pay for they would get free just because they are "friends" I'm strictly asking when are they allowed as a "friend" to communicate and interact with you and there not be a component that is tied to payment or the expectation of payment?

 

[Phoenix4987]

when are they allowed as a "friend" to communicate and interact with you and there not be a component that is tied to payment or the expectation of payment?

Your continued business is the component tied to payment. It might not be in the exact moment, but definitely in the near future. Should your business start to wane, I would expect so would the amount of offline communication.

I don't really like the word "friend" when it comes to relationships with models. Friendly, sure. But I don't pay my friends or any one I meet in the real world to talk to me. Likewise, the models don't expect any of their real life friends to pay them or help support their bills.

You're a source of income. They're a source of entertainment. That line, no matter how blurry it gets, is always there. That age verification that you have to accept when you go on the sites is the constant reminder should you forget.

 

[MDouble00]

I don't really like the word "friend" when it comes to relationships with models. Friendly, sure. But I don't pay my friends or any one I meet in the real world to talk to me. Likewise, the models don't expect any of their real life friends to pay them or help support their bills.

I also don't like the word friend used in this context. I state my position on cam relationships in my first reply. My second reply was more aimed at models interpretation of "friend". As this is the most civil I've seen the conversation before.

 

[Phoenix4987]

Yes I understand. Respectful is probably the closest adjective you're looking for. With some regularity in terms of $.

Generous and loyal would be other desired traits of a "friend", but not necessarily.

 

[thebongcat]

I agree that I am using the word "friend" loosely here and am meaning more friendly. Going a little beyond the usual model/member banter, getting to know each other a bit.

I think if you are voluntarily doing that then you shouldn't expect to be compensated for chatting. For me it become a problem when they are still visiting the room and not tipping. As someone mentioned above if they were really wanting to be friends irl the maybe don't continue to watch me do porn lol.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I found much of what you mentioned in your full post helpful. My counter to the quoted piece is if the "cam girl" is always in "cam girl" mode the member is never really out of customer mode in that scenario? Which is why it can be so hard to split what is friendship and what is still a business transaction for so many. I could be misinterpreting your usage of the phrase but saying "girlfriend experience" is something I typically would associate as a paid service either with escorts/hookers/sugar babies/ and so forth in that it is a relationship fully tied to a business transaction.

I guess my real question I would like to have elaborated on from the models perspective with the term "friend"... Where is the point in which you consider the member your friend and don't expect them to pay for your time and attention? Let me make it abundantly clear and I feel this ties back to OP's question I'm not saying the member should not pay you during your working shifts or buy your offerings just because you're friends. Or expect that those items that a "customer" would be expected to pay for they would get free just because they are "friends" I'm strictly asking when are they allowed as a "friend" to communicate and interact with you and there not be a component that is tied to payment or the expectation of payment?

"Girlfriend experience" has been used by escorts which seems to be a code for blowjobs and other such stuff but is still a paid service. That's not really what I mean when I say girlfriend experience though. A sugar relationship would probably be a better description because part of sugaring is it isn't (or shouldn't be) all about sex. The premium you pay is due to the amount of extra time and effort a sugar babe will put in, much of this non sexual, rather than just a quick pay by the hour. It's a bit different with camming as there is no established arrangement and tips and spending are up to discretion, but if you're wanting to have long conversations with a camgirl then I can only assume that this is part of the experience you want. And as any time she's spending talking to you she's not camming, making content etc but she's also able to be in her free time. There is no really necessity to tip if you're chatting to a camgirl in her free time, but you should really tip her when she next gets online.

It's actually really hard to have that boundary between being friends outside work and friends who are also your form of income. I think the best guide on whether you should tip a camgirl or not is down to what she says to you. If I have some free time and message one of my regulars asking if they want to chat then I definitely don't expect anything from them. If I'm chatting to a member a lot and it's taking up a lot of my free time, unless we've discussed it, I would hope they would remain generous with me in my room. I think especially if the member is initiating the conversation a lot. With my favourites I pretty much always initiate, but there is also context, if a model is helping you through some stuff or you're laying a lot of your issues on her then she's kind of like a counselor and should probably be paid something in appreciation (unless you are equally helping her through her own issues). Balance is key in any friendship. The reason I have been able to get close to so many regulars is because they will be generous with me in chat time or are generous in my room, I don't get to chat to any of my real life friends as much as my regulars, they have to work and I have to work. I love chatting but I can justify hanging out and chatting more if it's a part of my work.

I guess a good example of when you move to non paying friends is when I quit camming I stayed in touch with a lot of my regulars, some more than others but over the 2/3 years I had communication with a fair few members. We didn't speak as much as before but I had a few pen pal friendships where we stayed in touch off site or on here. I was no longer working on cam, the friendships remained, I couldn't give them as much attention as previously but we were still in touch like any other friend, something I am so grateful for. During this time no tokens or gifts were expected. Now I'm camming again the friendships are still there but tipping, online and offline is a thing again. We're also talking more as I'm around more often. The people who I'm friends with though are people who I'd be dragging into my room with no tokens just so I can hang out with them, I'm pretty clear on that, and I know that they tip when they can because they're kind, generous people who have my back. I hope I have theirs in return! If I felt someone were taking advantage of me I wouldn't want to be their friend, I am pretty careful to never take advantage of members so it's a reciprocal thing. I would say that initiating chat and eating up a fuck ton of a models time offline then not tipping her a bit extra offline or in the public room as a show of appreciation for her time (and in this case just stopping) is definitely taking advantage and not something a true friend would do.

 

[Dan Epstein]

As someone who assists many models offline on a daily basis, I agree with Isabella, you should not know the real person's details and be a consumer of the services at the same time.
It's not even the same as bar tending, and I served and mixed drinks for over 15 years. My model friends know that I will happily treat them to a drink in an event, yet they also know they will never find me in a chat room, it's a choice I made when I joined the industry as a sublet.

 

[heybarkeep]

I don't really like the word "friend" when it comes to relationships with models. Friendly, sure. But I don't pay my friends or any one I meet in the real world to talk to me. Likewise, the models don't expect any of their real life friends to pay them or help support their bills.

You're a source of income. They're a source of entertainment.

I never saw the point or felt the need to pretend that camsite relationships are anywhere near normal friendships. Some may see it as cold or less fun this way but I feel it's just being realistic. Still plenty fun and not knocking those that feel different, just always saw it as a business relationship. I personally feel more fun can be had when feelings or emotions aren't involved.

 

[zoober]

Fricking nice opening post, responses and subsequent discussion. And a pleasure to read the thoughtful and thought out comments. All I got to add is the cam model I have an unhealthy and clingy pseudo relationship integrates her offline chat to regulars with her morning waking up with coffee routine, the point being contact is maintained but the extent to which it impacts her real life is sensibly managed, constrained and clearly defined to limit the emotional labour (to quote an earlier post) involved. BTW if guys ain't tipping, fuck 'em.

 

[curacing]

Another very informative thread, great insight and advice from all.
Being a very regular and sometimes generous tipper with a few models I've befriended on CB I feel if I don't tip regularly they will think I care less about them and our I guess pseudo online friendship, after reading all this I see it's not really a friendship more of an aquaitance, although with the lovely lady I mod for its bordering on a romance that we should have known better to nip in the bud, but I digress...
tips amounts and frequency, I feel like any tip under 10 on CB should barely be acknowledged unless you build a wall of them, cam models, what is a decent amount to tip if you are hanging between shows while chatting with the group or odd pm? 20 tokens isnt much really but it's something.
I see my friend getting annoyed at the amount of guys that come in and sit there with no tip or chat ask questions with no tip, CB is especially bad with the greys, most get silenced, her way of venting I think lol.
MFC sounds like a good site I need to check out.

 

[zoober]

I feel like any tip under 10 on CB should barely be acknowledged unless you build a wall of them, cam models, what is a decent amount to tip if you are hanging between shows while chatting with the group or odd pm? 20 tokens isnt much really but it's something

not a model, but .... on CB I'd suggest a minimum total of 25 because then you can give a thumbs up. And acquaintance; nicely put

 

[MrSwoob]

On MFC I tip 5 tokens for models that just chat, and I tip 5 as time goes by. I can easily tip 50 tokens in a half hour or so. It depends. I am not even close to a whale on mfc, but those that I have a re pore with are cool with my tips, one does call me "splenda daddy"

 

[Phoenix4987]

Splenda daddy. Hahahaha. That's awesome. I'm stealin' it.

 

[curacing]

Yes its so easy to tip more than you intended sometimes, I've always been a sucker for a pretty girl or if they look a little sad or lonely when no one is tipping...share the love guys right, it's only money.

 

[Springer16]

Thanks Bobby!
I think that sounds really fair, and I do realize that it's not always in someone's budget to tip. Adding to the conversation and using the public chat instead of PM is really helpful and appreciated. I wish more members would realize this. Honestly, if I have a good night of hangouts but tips have been low, I usually do a show regardless to show my appreciation for the members who took the time to chat and have fun with me

I think your approach works and encourages loyalty and support. I also follow a model who communicates regularly on MFC and social media. I cannot tip as much as some, but tip as often as I can. I agree stopping tipping someone because they are a friend would be a bad way to treat a friend, but good conversation, respectful play and sharing fun times also goes a long way. Models have to judge what's worth their time,but a friendly connection keeps me returning and as much as possible tipping too. It makes for a positive and mutually beneficial experience too.

 

[viviandash]

I totally understand what you have been thru because, due to my talkative nature, some guys try to take advantage of that... they do a few shows to get my friendship and then take me private or tip ever again, just chatting endlessly. Still, I didn't want to cut this totally because I enjoy chatting, it gives me pleasure.

So now I sell a monthly subscription to my snapchat and kik. It's more expensive than other girls charge (even tho it's not a lot of money) and I don't do life time, the maximum time I allow is 6 months in a single payment. I like the feeling of the guy paying every month because he wants to support me. And for those awesome guys, I give a lot of attention and chat on a daily basis. When the subscription is over, he is off... until he decides to support me again.
It's working, makes me feel happy and I reward those who are interested in keeping me happy.