CB Support and CB vs MFC

[Jimmy9]

It's not a good use of a models time to be talking to a premium that isn't going to spend tokens. I like the idea of making into a basic with tokens, but currently that would negate the message that MFC give to basics "Basic members have been temporarily muted by the model. Buy tokens once to become a Premium Member for life. "

But how many of those people would have bought the original tokens if they wouldn't be premium for life? Pushing people back to basics or expiring tokens won't make them buy more, it would probably just make them leave the site. And if a model doesn't like talking to a 200/20, she can just ban them.

 

[Puffin]

'probably just make them leave the site', that is a good thing! Think of the site cost of video streaming for 12 years for zero tokens!

A policy of use tokens or lose tokens for LONG term none spending premiums would result in most spending them imo.

 

[Jimmy9]

'probably just make them leave the site', that is a good thing! Think of the site cost of video streaming for 12 years for zero tokens!

The cost is completely insignificant when you have millions of people visiting the site.

A policy of use tokens or lose tokens for LONG term none spending premiums would result in most spending them imo.

I imagine the amount of users who would simply not create an account in the first place if they knew their tokens would expire would be greater than the amount of people who buy more tokens because of it. And even if people did have to spend $20/year to renew their premium, that's not really a meaningful amount of money overall.

 

[DeezNA]

But how many of those people would have bought the original tokens if they wouldn't be premium for life? Pushing people back to basics or expiring tokens won't make them buy more, it would probably just make them leave the site.

This is how CB has always worked as long as I have been there. If you don't pay a monthly fee for Premium status (font changes, PMs, less ads I think, some other shit) then you are either grey (no tokens in account), teal (tokens in account), or an assortment of other Skittle colors to indicate how much you tipped in the past X amount of hours (something MFC does not do). So if you spent 10,000 tokens all in one night last month and have 0 left today, you are a gray just like someone who has never bought tokens in the first place. The great equalizer. Tough titties.

So people sit on 1 fucking token, thinking it will make them "stand out" or have more "value" to a room (or so they can talk because a lot of people mute all grays), when really they could just buy and spend tokens, show appreciation for their entertainer, participate politely and often, and stop worrying about creating visual value by letting their wallet bulge out of their pockets which means absolutely fuck-all if they're never going to open it.

MFC's reward system works off of expenditure rewards in long-term value and cumulative expenditures. Through Reward Points, you "build up value" to the site and eventually unlock more features the more you buy tokens through the site (not sure if it has anything to do with how much you have spent, pretty sure it's based off tokens purchased). CB's reward system is based off of more immediate transactions - activity in the past 2 weeks (I was pretty sure it used to be less, like 24 hours or something). CB's whole business model, the way the entire site is built, is to encourage more in-the-moment satisfaction: immediate color change, different noises based on tip amount, etc.


It should be noted, as I discussed in a different thread recently, that on both sites your "Virtual Money" does not belong to you: Virtual Money is property of the site. The second you convert "cash" into "tokens", it is the property of MFC/CB and they can legally do whatever the fuck they want with it and are fully, legally permitted to do so by you, the member, by agreeing to their ToS. Regardless of the removal of this new policy from CB's ToS, both sites have the ability and legal protection to just empty your account of tokens at any second if they really wanted to or had reason to... not that they would, but if you think hiding tokens in your account is like keeping them in a vault, you're 100% wrong. If you're afraid of losing your tokens to the site for no reason, sitting on them is just not a great idea; expiry is simply a deterrent to dissuade this behavior.

Tokens have zero value; they represent money already transferred to the hosting site. When a purchase of tokens is made, money is given to the site for services rendered up-front; not spending those tokens is simply telling the site that your entertainer doesn't get your cash just yet. I know this may come off as hyper-critical, but seriously... you can buy tokens at any time... if you're waiting for the "right time", just buy tokens then. I don't get it; I guess different people have different spending habits and rituals. But if you are opting to have tokens idle in your account for weeks/months, I think it is very important to know that your tokens do not belong to you and that you can "lose" all of your already-spent money for absolutely no reason with no legal repercussion or refund. This has always been the case.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

So people sit on 1 fucking token, thinking it will make them "stand out" or have more "value" to a room (or so they can talk because a lot of people mute all grays), when really they could just buy and spend tokens, show appreciation for their entertainer, participate politely and often, and stop worrying about creating visual value by letting their wallet bulge out of their pockets which means absolutely fuck-all if they're never going to open it.

It is clear your bias leans toward that of the entertainer, and understandably so. But just to offer a different perspective.

The value of having a blue, purple, lavender, or whatever colored name means little to me. I am all for showing appreciation. But there are a lot of nights I don't have money to spend. I still like to be able to chat with people on those nights, so that chat token is HUGE. I think that is the consideration of most who hang on to that last token. If the models can see where you stand in the token levels (as I have been told), then a different color name is not going to count for much.

There have been a couple of times when I told a performer I was down to my chat token right before giving it to her. When this happens (especially when it comes from an obnoxiously chatty person who knows giving it means he must shut up for a week or so), I hope the model understands, that at least in terms of sentiment, that one token represents one thousand.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

It is clear your bias leans toward that of the entertainer, and understandably so. But just to offer a different perspective.

The value of having a blue, purple, lavender, or whatever colored name means little to me. I am all for showing appreciation. But there are a lot of nights I don't have money to spend. I still like to be able to chat with people on those nights, so that chat token is HUGE. I think that is the consideration of most who hang on to that last token. If the models can see where you stand in the token levels (as I have been told), then a different color name is not going to count for much.

There have been a couple of times when I told a performer I was down to my chat token right before giving it to her. When this happens (especially when it comes from an obnoxiously chatty person who knows giving it means he must shut up for a week or so), I hope the model understands, that at least in terms of sentiment, that one token represents one thousand.

I tend to carry the analogy a bit farther. Suppose a guy has tipped large amounts in the past, then circumstances happen. Maybe he loses a job, crashes his car, needs a new transmission for his car, breaks an arm...life. So for a month or two he can't afford to buy more tokens/gold/whatever. That gray system is basically saying to him he's now worthless because he's not tipping for awhile. All the past means nothing, the chat and friendliness mean nothing. All that goes away.

Take the mfc business model. Many on here complain that members can buy once and chat for free for years. Yet you never know when someone who has freeloaded for a long time will get a new job, or come into money; maybe some other reason. Then out of the blue they'll buy and tip. Many times I've heard models mention things like that happening.

Let's be blunt here. If they have never tipped, then they aren't really taking any money out of a models pocket. It's no loss. But should they have disposable income again who are they more likely to tip? A model who they've been chatting and friendly with for some time, or a model who muted them the instant they couldn't afford to tip them every freaking month?

I'll take mfc's strategy on that any day. Seems like it would be better for the model too.

 

[UncleThursday]

Although its a bit weird, I dont really see what harm it does that the tokens need to be taken away. I do think that if you havent bought any tokens for so long then you should go back to being a basic until you top up again, but maybe a new type of basic with tokens.

This is essentially what CB does. Member names are gray when they have no tokens, and a shade of blue when they have tokens (dark blue if just bought or have spent more than a certain amount in a time frame-- I believe it is 50 tokens in 2 weeks, light blue if they haven't tipped at least as many tokens as needed in that time frame), unless they are part of the per-month fan club thing in a model's room, then they are green-- no matter what-- in that room. So, going back to 0 tokens on CB essentially makes the member a basic again.

 

[yummybrownfox]

I voted for MyFreeCams since I've had a lot of experience with that site, and always considered it a favorite. High traffic site...reasonable in that they allow models to advertise Twitter and their e-mail address if they wish...MFC models had a little more freedom, in my opinion...always paid on time...Model Support was always friendly/helpful to me...

I was never too impressed with Chaturbate, and I thought it sucked when CB Support told me that you couldn't purchase tokens with a Payoneer card (which was a bummer, since I was using my Payoneer card for pretty much everything back then).

 

[UncleThursday]

OK, so I have to use this multiquote thing a bit better, so sorry for 2 posts in a row, probably won't happen again since I can use the new quoting system to easily reply to multiple posts...

MFC's reward system works off of expenditure rewards in long-term value and cumulative expenditures. Through Reward Points, you "build up value" to the site and eventually unlock more features the more you buy tokens through the site (not sure if it has anything to do with how much you have spent, pretty sure it's based off tokens purchased). CB's reward system is based off of more immediate transactions - activity in the past 2 weeks (I was pretty sure it used to be less, like 24 hours or something). CB's whole business model, the way the entire site is built, is to encourage more in-the-moment satisfaction: immediate color change, different noises based on tip amount, etc.

MFC's 'rewards systems' are, well, non-existent. The best thing is more images in your private gallery, depending on model settings for that. Other than that, it's just access to two different lounges... the Lounge1000 when you have 1000+ reward points, and the Lounge10000 when you have 10k+ reward points. Oh, and at 1k RP a member can change their username. That's it. There is no 'value' to be built up. There are no 'perks' from the site for being a spender on MFC. None. Nada. Zilch. Zip.

I have over 44k RP on MFC. I get the exact same benefits as someone with 10k. Oooooo, I get a few more images in my private gallery than the 10k person does... which I never look at. I also get to go to a less crowded lounge than a 1k-9999k RP member, and access to 2 different lounges over what we call $20 basics (those that spent $20 and never spend again), or other premiums that haven't gotten to 1k RP, yet.

You'll forgive me if I don't jump for joy at all the 'value' the site adds for all the money I've spent there over the years.

Tokens have zero value; they represent money already transferred to the hosting site. When a purchase of tokens is made, money is given to the site for services rendered up-front; not spending those tokens is simply telling the site that your entertainer doesn't get your cash just yet. I know this may come off as hyper-critical, but seriously... you can buy tokens at any time... if you're waiting for the "right time", just buy tokens then. I don't get it; I guess different people have different spending habits and rituals. But if you are opting to have tokens idle in your account for weeks/months, I think it is very important to know that your tokens do not belong to you and that you can "lose" all of your already-spent money for absolutely no reason with no legal repercussion or refund. This has always been the case.

Tokens have value to the models, because that's what they get tipped, or used in groups and privates. The tokens are then converted to real money by the site when it pays out.

As for buying at any time... you do realize many of us have to budget our entertainment spending, correct? I might want a long private/Skype with a favorite model, but I'm not always going to have hundreds of bucks to throw down at a moment's notice. So, maybe I have to buy some smaller packages each pay until I have enough. I am paying bills from 2 heart attacks in under a year, plus all my other normal expenditures (while dealing with the fact I made practically no money for 6 months during that year while out of work, and needing to buy a new computer since mine died when I was in the hospital), after all. It's not like I can magically summon $300+ at a whim to get the tokens I'd need for that long private/Skype show whenever I want. IF it was as easy as you're making it out to seem, then I'd have hundreds of thousands of tokens ready at my disposal, as well as a new computer, and all my medical bills paid, and all my normal bills paid, and a new car, etc.

Guess what? It's not that easy. I spent an entire month's worth of my entertainment expenditures today, alone. On a long Skype with a favorite model. She knows my medical situation, and I know she appreciated the spending. But, she also knows it pretty much means I'm not going to have anything to spend for a while-- I might be able to spare $20 here and there, but I hate buying packages under $75, because they disappear too fast.

I've missed out on a lot of deals-- rare Skype shows, video deals, Whatsapp numbers, etc.-- because I didn't have the money to throw down on tokens at that right time. But, yeah, we can just "buy tokens at any time" according to you.

 

[DeezNA]

I would like to preface this response by addressing @justjoinedtopost 's presumption of bias. 1.) I am an active, frequent tipper on MFC - where I pay full price out-of-pocket just like everyone else to show appreciation for entertainment. 2.) I frequented MFC for 2+ years before I became a model myself. 3.) This thread was a model looking for advice and info; not a member looking for the most bang for their buck. Given the aforementioned reasons, I am probably the least biased person participating in this conversation (as I have extensive experience and perspective from both sides of the cam). If there is any inherent model-side bias, it is likely because the post was intended to give insight to a model who was looking for a place to call home. As it has obviously and massively derailed, we can keep this train a-choo-choo-in' if you guys want. All aboard, motherfuckers!


The "gray stigma", as I like to call it, is something that is only perpetuated and stigmatized by models who choose to mute gray members, or members/models who choose to treat gray members as "less" than other members. I have always held, since day one of starting my room, that all people of all backgrounds, genders, sexual identities, user-name colors... are welcome. Those who are not welcome? Assholes. I am not the only model who runs their room like this.

I have had members frequent my room for months before becoming frequent tippers; whether they tip other models or have disposable income is absolutely none of my business. My business is to be fairly compensated for the job that I am doing, to encourage members to pay for their entertainment rather than leech off others, and to enforce when users are being abusive of either other members' appreciation or each other in general. That's it. And those are rules I set for myself, everyone is different.

I'm sure in larger rooms it's a lot easier to throw a blanket "mute grays" bot down to just shut up those who don't have tokens: I choose to activate my mods when my room count gets out of my personal control and delegate that responsibility. Point being: it's the model's choice to mute grays, not CB policy. On slow nights, even high-ranking models on MFC will sometimes un-mute Basics in order to carry conversation and promote the purchase of tokens. These are all optional - the difference being that on CB, a gray simply means you currently do not have tokens in your account regardless of how much you have spent in the past. On MFC - Basic means you have never purchased tokens.

I get people on fluctuating incomes, I get chatty members: it's life. If no one is getting hurt and genuine positive sentiment is there, who the fuck cares if you have 1 token in your account - it's a fucking nickel. I'd prefer honesty from a member that is actively participating to show me that they can't tip that evening rather than being shown that the user has tokens and simply isn't spending them.

The value associated with a "chat token" is only dictated by the user and the model. If you, as a user, feel comfortable deceiving a model in order to be granted the privilege to chat in room where people who don't have money aren't allowed to talk - that's your choice. There are plenty of rooms with plenty of models, all with different systems and rules; you choose where you want to hang out. I, personally and as a model, find a 1 token tip much more insulting than anything a "random gray bog-troll" could throw at me, regardless of whatever sentimental value the user has associated with it. They might see that as the Holy Grail, that's 5 cents to me.

The reality is - no, people will not always be able to tip. This does not mean they have no intention to tip in the future when they can; you'd be surprised how many models are aware of this. Chatting, in itself, is indeed a privilege and some generous models give that to any who wish to chat on the "honor system" that their time and entertainment provided will be compensated in the future. Others prefer to secure themselves in only allowing those who they know have the means to compensate them to interact. If you think you will chat a model's ear off with a single "chat token", pay them your "chat token" after who knows how long and expect them to see that nickel as a grand gesture... I'm just gonna say I wouldn't get your hopes up on that. Go for the gusto! Splurge! Spend that $11 on enough tokens to make your favorite model see that you truly appreciate their time and attention. Or, maybe find someone who will sympathize that you don't have cash that evening and will still give you the time of day.


This is just my perspective on the matter; not speaking in absolutes and not pointing fingers. I think it's really nice in concept to equalize everyone to gray; no one can use "oh I'm just a gray, I can't tip because <insert bullshit reason here>". It simply shows the model an honest survey of who currently has tokens and who doesn't. It's not like a model will forget your past generosity simply because your name changed color... if anything, it saves you having to apologize and explain it to them which is just awkward and not fun for everyone involved.

I would love to continue this conversation in another thread if you guys are down; I think we have strayed well from the initial topic here.


Honorable mention to @Songbird_Shelly for bringing it back to the actual topic as I was typing this novel.

 

[DeezNA]

@UncleThursday I am very sorry to hear of your misfortune and personal health/financial issues. I sincerely extend my deepest condolences and to many degrees can relate.

I hope reading my last response can clear up the fact that I am both a model and a customer. I know well that customers have different budgets, expenditures and incomes. So do models. When you're in our room, you're in our place of business. Much of what was quoted feels like it was taken out of context, but giving you the benefit of the doubt and condensing much of your reply into one response - Budgeting is your responsibility. When/how you spend your money and when/how/if you convert it to tokens is entirely up to you.

I do not mean to come off as condescending to customers, as I am both a service provider and a customer myself, I apologize if that impression has at all taken place. If there is any more specific clarification I can provide you on my quoted statements, feel free to let me know.

 

[dilligaf0]

Most of this comes off as "thanks for all you've spent in the past and your bad luck sucks but if you can't tip, GTFO!

 

[CorinneCooper]

Most of this comes off as "thanks for all you've spent in the past and your bad luck sucks but if you can't tip, GTFO!

I don't take a hard line on people who have tipped in the past but can't tip now. My room is very casual in regards to those things as long as a person doesn't turn into a flaming dick of a person but... let me ask you this....

If you've spent money at McDonalds before, does that mean they should just allow you to loiter in there all day 6 months later? Most businesses have a model of pay or get out. We're the only business I know of where people think its ok to not do so.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

If you've spent money at McDonalds before, does that mean they should just allow you to loiter in there all day 6 months later? Most businesses have a model of pay or get out. We're the only business I know of where people think its ok to not do so.

I think if you eat once, and loiter for the next six months, that is not ok.
If you are a regular customer who is eating multiple times a week and you are being told you are only allowed to speak while standing at the cash register, that is not ok either.

 

[CorinneCooper]

I agree with that. Its more in reference to the people who may have tipped back in December of 2013... but are still in a girls room daily. Heck, even I don't mind that so much as long as they are contributing to the conversation in a positive manner. But to feel that you are "owed" that because you spent money 6, 8, 9 months ago... is flawed thinking.

 

[JoleneBrody]

I didn't read all the posts but it would bum me right the heck out if some of my rad ass member friends were downgraded to basics on nights they can't tip.

That would be hella lame, fudge that noise.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

If you, as a user, feel comfortable deceiving a model in order to be granted the privilege to chat in room where people who don't have money aren't allowed to talk - that's your choice.

Again, this sounds a little biased to me. If the rules say "No token, no chat", I fail to see how this is deception. I have a token; therefore, I am allowed to chat. I deceive no one.

I, personally and as a model, find a 1 token tip much more insulting than anything a "random gray bog-troll" could throw at me, regardless of whatever sentimental value the user has associated with it. They might see that as the Holy Grail, that's 5 cents to me...If you think you will chat a model's ear off with a single "chat token", pay them your "chat token" after who knows how long and expect them to see that nickel as a grand gesture... I'm just gonna say I wouldn't get your hopes up on that.

We are talking about two entirely different scenarios here, you and I.

You describe a situation where a user chats his ass off with one token, then gives that one token to the model as a "grand gesture". This is absurd for one simple reason: that person who is content to chat his ass off with only one token is never giving that token. If that is all I have access to, I'm not even going to bother giving it.

When I give my chat token, it is indeed a grand gesture. If a model manages to get it from me (which nigh impossible), I announce beforehand that I am giving it up. But to get to that point, you've got to take all my others first. Then you've got to send me back into the buy tokens popup until they will sell me no more. Then I've got to sit there and agonize for a while because I have nothing else to give.

Giving that chat token is my way of saying "Take it all. You deserve it." Sure, it may only be worth a nickel; but 99.9% of models aren't worth that last nickel.

 

[JoleneBrody]

I feel likes his begs the question... Which site has the stronger sense of community? MFC or CB?
I've never worked on CB, but I know both are very social based however that semi standard seems like it would create just little less of the sense of belonging that can come from being an MFC room reg.

What say you?

 

[justjoinedtopost]

I feel likes his begs the question... Which site has the stronger sense of community? MFC or CB?

What say you?

MFC by a country mile. Simply because the lines of communication are so open.

 

[AnneDVille]

Personally I think that CB's strategy of turning users who don't have tokes at that particular moment back in 'greys' has the potential of diminishing the sense of community in a room.

I only cammed there for precisely 3 mins 5 months ago and during that time I was insulted, had someone tell me that they knew my parents and received about 300 tokens of fake tips. All from greys. I am not sure what is it about CB that attracts that level of trolling. maybe I got unlucky, but I completely understand why most models there would choose to silence the greys. Which brings us to the problem of members who have been participating in the room in the past, but for now they are unable to. And even if the model would want those particular members to chat they can't un-mute the grey because they were muted for a reason to begin with, which turns the whole situation into a double edged sword.

Quite a few of my beautiful peoples on MFC tend to come visit most days. Some will tip small amounts each time, some will bomb me every once in a while when they can but they are ALL always welcome to participate and chat and be a part of my room whenever they visit. And that strongly contributes to my room vibe. Which is awesome. And I like having them there. It would be very disheartening if my peoples couldn't chat just because they are not able to tip on that particular day.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Gen]

Yeah, I really like that MFC differentiates between people who've bought tokens at least once and people who never have. Of course there are a handful of guys who will hold those tokens forever, and a ton of 0/20 premiums, but I have a feeling that people who've pulled their wallet out once before are more likely to do it again. And that prevents the issue of "well, I've tipped in the past but I can't right now" - in my opinion, the type of people who stay on MFC even when they can't tip are probably invested enough to eventually buy more tokens when they can tip again. (I have no data to back those things up just a feeling!)

 

[dilligaf0]

Personally I think that CB's strategy of turning users who don't have tokes at that particular moment back in 'greys' has the potential of diminishing the sense of community in a room.

Sorry, but a site like that makes me feel like instead of "member names" members should just be listed as "ATM#____"

 

[AnneDVille]

Sorry, but a site like that makes me feel like instead of "member names" members should just be listed as "ATM#____"

Edited cuz I misread. Ignore me and carry on!

 

[JackieMarie]

I havent been camming super long (almost three months now) and I started on CB. The website seemed more user friendly and I honestly just didnt feel comfortable with members getting recorded private shows yet. Once starting on MFC, I've had trouble getting myself to go back to CB! I've had several time where for some reason, I can't accept private shows or start apps and bots, and the support did absolutely nothing. I emailed my concerns, and they copy and pasted broadcasting tips from the site into an email to me. I emailed again saying I wanted a typed response to help me since the problem existed with their site and it was affecting my income, and they sarcastically sent the exact same email back to me. I considered that a big middle finger to me as a performer trying to make money (and giving them a 50% cut). I lost out on a 30 minute private show that night because I couldn't accept it, and lost the ability to create a topic or goal, so nobody knew the direction my room was headed. I decided to take my business primarily to MFC where I get quality traffic and support from the site and keep my CB account as a backup or for specific shows.